Freezasaurus
Member
Yeah, this. But I'd also add that DC is more of an acquired taste. It's not as easily accessible as Marvel books usually are. And Image books are all self-contained, so there's never any crossover shenanigans to worry about.
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COMICS! |OT| January 2014. Another year of nothing will be the same ever again. EVER.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
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Yeah, this. But I'd also add that DC is more of an acquired taste. It's not as easily accessible as Marvel books usually are. And Image books are all self-contained, so there's never any crossover shenanigans to worry about.
I can't say I'm still reading it, then again I'm not a big fan of Johns. His writing is dry and, in all honesty, feels like it's by-the-numbers. Like he's getting the story straight from editorial and he just needs to fill in the blanks, like a lamer version of mad libs.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I thought this new broad GL was supposed to show up, Jessica Cruz? Guess plans are changing.
GrandHarrier
Member
Popularity wise DC and Marvel wax and wane with each other. Over the years things will drift from fortune to misfortune. ComicGAF in particular tends to be pretty comic agnostic, outside of some Superfans of one or another. The conversation is often dominated by the news of the moment.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I think it's just because the solicits are out so people are talking about the DC books. Marvel and Image are killing DC in terms of quality right now, it's sad (as someone who was primarily DC for nearly 20 years).
I'll save you some money:
Before #1: all the heroes get taken out.
#1: the Crime Syndicate are evil.
#2: Rinse
#3: Repeat. Oh look, they've got Bizarro in the Nu52
#4: wait we're still doing this, why hasn't the story moved forwards?
doniewhalberg
Member
Spent the week rereading the whole of Scalped. That issue Aaron did with Latour, about how Karnow got his change of heart, that really makes you excited for Southern Bastards. Just a great series, with one of those endings that makes you want more but happy for it to be done as well, finally give a few of those characters reprieve for good.
I think Secret Warriors is arriving today, so I guess that's next, should be a good change of pace.
I think Secret Warriors is arriving today, so I guess that's next, should be a good change of pace.
ThyMusicMan
Member
Messi is going to hunt you down now
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Deadly Class. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wes Craig will be your new favorite colorist. Wow. Wow. Woah.
ThyMusicMan
Member
I read Nowhere Men yesterday,, I thought the story was pretty damn good, it got stronger as the book went on and everything started coming together towards the end ,,
I also really liked the layout of the book and the little "breaks" in between the art.(interviews and stuff about the characters)
The art wasn't breath taking or anything, but there was a few nice 2-page pieces of art.
It was a good read for $5-6 bucks(184p.)
I also really liked the layout of the book and the little "breaks" in between the art.(interviews and stuff about the characters)
The art wasn't breath taking or anything, but there was a few nice 2-page pieces of art.
It was a good read for $5-6 bucks(184p.)
GrandHarrier
Member
That is one interpretation. But that is just a matter of opinion. On the less contentious side, Image certainly is in a better place now then it was, but I really feel some of its books get a free pass for some egregious faults. Saga, for example, has lovely art and a Seinfeld like plodding plot that's about "nothing". The last six issues have been sex jokes and sitting around. The momentum of books like it and Ten Grand get killed by release schedules that are best expressed as random variables. (Um... our book is having a 2-3 month delay because we can't be bothered to maintain contact with the artist??? RE: Ten Grand)
I won't comment on Marvel because I am reading one of their books at the moment (which is OK but nothing special).
Too often I hear people comment that DC quality is low and yet many times those people aren't even reading any current books and yet still claim authority on the subject. It's one thing to "review" the quality of a book you are reading it's another to pass judgement on an entire line that you read a handful of titles for years ago.
I really wish people would level specific complaints. Comment on what they've read specifically. Why is that so hard?
I also love the idea that Marvel is more "accessible" than DC. Lolwut.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Spot on about Saga. Justpiss poor writing all around and after 16 or so issues I had to drop it. BKV desperately needs an editor. Just started reading aex Machina today and there is just a world of difference. Even Kirkman has enough sense to have a paper tiger as an editor.
GrandHarrier
Member
I just mentioned Saga cause it's something alot of people get. I still get it for the art but the story has long since lost me and this is as someone who loved Y: The Last Man.
I had to drop Ten Grand because the magic was broken. I loved the first few issues, but the random delay + the art change just killed any momentum it had.
I had to drop Ten Grand because the magic was broken. I loved the first few issues, but the random delay + the art change just killed any momentum it had.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Fair enough, I'll give capsule reviews of whatever DC books I pick up this week so I can have an official opinion on the quality. Will also pick up a few that I don't usually get so I can speak with authority on the general line.
But if you consider that when the Nu52 launched I was reading ~30 DC books, and now I read about 5 (and I try pretty much every creative team switch unless it's someone really shite) I think there's a clear pattern emerging. For the past couple of years, DC have been hiring very mediocre creative teams whereas Marvel have been absolutely killing it from an artistic standpoint. I don't see how this is a controversial opinion. I think that the main issue is following characters vs following talent. It seems to me that most oft he big DC fans here are more interested in following the characters regardless of how good the books are, and that kind of attitude doesn't really lend itself to thinking critically about the line of books.
I'm reading Saga in trades but I really enjoy the decompressed pacing in that format. That book is all about character relationships rather than plotting, so talking is pretty much all I want from it anyway.
GrandHarrier
Member
You make an interesting point about following characters versus creative teams. You are correct that I would fall into that camp. I view comics like I would a sports team: I'm not going to "abandon" them just because they are at a low point. But that doesn't mean I can't objectively say whether a run is good or bad nor that I won't end it prematurely if it's really bad.
I often see people on the Marvel side of things complain mightily about something and yet still continue to get it (Age of Ultron anyone?) So I don't think one company or another has a lock on that mentality.
Really, I think my chief complaint is that it seems inappropriate to try to pass on bias to new comic fans or thread members. "Hello, welcome to comics. DC is shit, I want to personally fellate Marvel writer so-and-so, and every Image title is a literal piece of heaven that will bring you joyous orgasmic rapture"
We should try to be positive about the things we like.
I often see people on the Marvel side of things complain mightily about something and yet still continue to get it (Age of Ultron anyone?) So I don't think one company or another has a lock on that mentality.
Really, I think my chief complaint is that it seems inappropriate to try to pass on bias to new comic fans or thread members. "Hello, welcome to comics. DC is shit, I want to personally fellate Marvel writer so-and-so, and every Image title is a literal piece of heaven that will bring you joyous orgasmic rapture"
We should try to be positive about the things we like.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
But the trouble with this is that you end up supporting mediocre books. As I have said before, I think mediocrity is even worse than something awful. Awful things can sometimes be transcendent in their terribleness, but a mediocre comic is just a $3-4 hole in your life.
And trust me man, I have bought more than my fair share of mediocre books. I was a massive Batman fan and bought every single bat title from the age of 14 till my late 20s. It hit me a couple of years ago while clearing out my boxes that the majority of these books were just not good, but I carried on buying them. I read Nightwing all through Devin Grayson and fucking Bruce Jones, I read Robin from when Chuck Dixon left through to the bitter, spiteful end. I bought the Larry Hama run on Batman. I even bought Tony Daniel's solo run on Batman.
All that wasted money makes me bitter as fuck. So if we have voices uncritically supporting DC's current mediocre state then there needs to be balance. Discrimination is important.
Yeah AoU was fucking shocking!
so bad. But at least it was short. Ish. Marvel are certainly not immune to producing lukewarm shit either (Fraction's Fantastic Four anyone? Nah, didn't think so), but I find that right now they're producing way more excellent work than bad.New readers are THE MOST important thing though! We should never ever be directing them towards anything than the very best the industry has to offer. Because all it takes is one bad or mediocre book and that's it, they're gone never to be seen again. We need to nurture these delicate bonsais to maturity. Then when they have their sea legs they can buy dreck at their own risk (like with our own Messi, a caterpillar turned Butterfly, now gleefully making his own mistakes, like buying Catwoman).
pock3tmonster
Banned
I suspect that Jessica Cruz will
inherit Power Ring/Volthoom's ring following the end of Forever Evil,
Sinestro takes down Power Ring in the next issue of Forever Evil.
"I know what's it's like to be labelled a villain--".
the Justice League's "death".
pock3tmonster
Banned
He's skipping issue 7 to catch up on issue 8. He's still on the book, though rumours would have you believe he's on the Teen Titans relaunch.
pock3tmonster
Banned
He did deny the rumours, but in an almost backhanded manner. I guess we'll know for sure soon enough. Superman Wonder Woman is absolutely stellar, from the art to the writing. I hope DC don't make the mistake of undermining the quality.
GrandHarrier
Member
I really hope Tony Daniel stays on Superman/Wonder Woman. Monome is right, his Wonder Woman really is gorgeous in a very statuesque manner. I also thought his Doomsday was great and Zod has a great beard.
Between Zod beard and Guys 'stache, DC has the facial hair on lock down unless some Marvel readers can step up some equally great examples. Great facial hair should be company agnostic.
Between Zod beard and Guys 'stache, DC has the facial hair on lock down unless some Marvel readers can step up some equally great examples. Great facial hair should be company agnostic.
I mistakenly let The Unwritten slide for a while as they did the Fables crossover and I hadn't caught up with Fables, turned out I didn't need to worry about it anyway. Up to date with both now, at least. Fables had a fair little dip a while back but seems to have picked back up again now which is good.
Not like this. I will end you. We could have been friends.
Spike Spiegel
Member
Chalk it up to a couple of things.
One, DC solicits just came out yesterday after them withholding their release for an extra week for unknown reasons; I think everyone was at the very least curious to see just what was so important that they would decide to delay them. Even I found things to comment on, and I buy one DC book each month. Two, Marvel is just beginning to roll out a new wave of books, with the bulk of new titles hitting Feb/Mar/Apr; I suspect that there will be quite a bit of discussion on their books in the coming months. Three, it's the "bread and circuses" act; the "scandals and animals." I know there are some who will disagree (of course there will be), but DC continues to do things intended to draw an immediate love/hate reaction from the community, a trend highlighted with the New52. Marvel does this as well but on a smaller scale, and with few exceptions (like Superior) draw a much less visceral reaction. DC is more adherent to the "any reaction is better than no reaction" philosophy.
I hear the SMWW shipping makes Johns' awful attempts look subtle by comparison. Like the only way they could be less subtle was if "Close to You" played in the background.
Thanks for the heads up I got Poison Ivy.
Is it bad that it bothers me that the Harley bombshell has green eyes.
GrandHarrier
Member
Messi, why do you hate Harleen Quinzel?
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
AstroCity is just masterclass comics. In its like stepping into a superhero universe on a melancholy rainy day. Such world building and characters. This is how you do analogues Mark Millar, not the herpes fluid you pass off for comics.
No she is my waifu but she has blue eyes and it's an oversight. Harley is DC best/most interesting villain. There Simone had to say it.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Was the big surprise in the DC solicits is that The Movement is still around? How is that garbage still around and Vibe is dead? How is Batwing around? Vibe better be in that teen relaunch.
GrandHarrier
Member
I believe it's canceled as of #12. Gail calling in her IOU from the firing fiasco.
Batwing needs to get cut too.
GrandHarrier
Member
Pammy needs to get hers for breakin' the faith with her sisters in the Birds of Prey.
doniewhalberg
Member
Read the first few issues of Secret Warriors. I've read them before (had read the first trade previously) but the series is pretty great, it's amazing to see how confident Hickman was jumping into his first major marvel book. HC itself is all kinds of nice, lots of his nice design stuff that makes the manhattan projects trades etc. so nice. Big chapter pages with designs and quotes, stuff like that.
I wouldn't mind if Original Sin lead to a Fury book. Plenty of great talent at Marvel right now that could do one. Aaron, Edmondson, Kot. They're doing a good job of building back up their spy corner of the MU again. In a perfect world though, I'd just have Bru or Latour back doing the Winter Soldier book with Fury in it.
I wouldn't mind if Original Sin lead to a Fury book. Plenty of great talent at Marvel right now that could do one. Aaron, Edmondson, Kot. They're doing a good job of building back up their spy corner of the MU again. In a perfect world though, I'd just have Bru or Latour back doing the Winter Soldier book with Fury in it.
GrandHarrier
Member
I liked Poison Ivy as part of the BoP. She lends herself well to the sometimes antihero role.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Mega City 2: City of Courts was a total lid blower.
Wolk and Farinas for National Guard
Wolk and Farinas for National Guard
Shin Johnpv
Member
Johns never really hinted at when she would show up, and it was just a lot of fan theory that she was going to be the new version of Power Ring.
Memento Mori
Member
No stores have Black Widow or Avengers
Edit: Apparently they are delayed? Or is that just here?
Are you in the UK? Several Marvel comics have been delayed in the UK until next week because of a printing error.
Shin Johnpv
Member
That's a matter of taste though, and new readers should be allowed to develop their own taste instead of folks cramming their opinions down it. If you tell some one Morrison is the best the industry has to offer read it and love it, and they end up hating it, well same effect. They're going to say ohh this is the best well it's crap fuck this industry.
It's better for new readers to sample a bit of everything and discover what they like on their own, instead of trying to force what you or I think is the best onto them.
They tried. They were just getting no response from Templesmith who was going through some personal stuff at the time. Eventually they decided to switch artists.
GrandHarrier
Member
Oh I am aware. But it shouldn't have been allowed to go on as long as it did. If I recall the time line it was like six weeks before they decided to change artists. Deadlines and timetables exist for a reason.
But I am also the first to acknowledge I have little patience for delays.
Ireland. So that why. Damn.
GhostRidah
Member
Well Deadly Class was amazing.
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