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COMICS! |OT| July 2016. Everyone Loves A Hero, Everyone Loves You

V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
frye said:
me picking up a random DC comic c. 2011-2012: what the fuck is this garbage (probably)

me picking up a random DC comic c. now: it's okay i guess?? (probably)
Click to expand...

I dont think any of them very interesting, or have the potential to be great. I look at a list of TCJ picking 83 of the best superhero projects from 2000-2009, and these books are either very good or at least artistically interesting. If we were composing a list for the current decade, I'm not sure how much of DC would be there. A lot of people like Snyder/Capullo Batman, although I'd sooner add Batman Inc. We both ditched Wonder Woman but at least it looked cool with Cliff Chiang drew it and took some ambitious chances with the character. Cameron Stewart/Babs Tarr Batgirl is kinda terrible, but it looked great. What else is there? A year from now, you think any of these current DC comics are gonna be good or interesting enough to put them on a list of the superheroic highlights? Cuz I dont see it. It just feels like a linewide return of decompressed competence, a conscious attempt to not rock the boat or doing anything too crazy attract people back.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
frye said:
me picking up a random DC comic c. 2011-2012: what the fuck is this garbage (probably)

me picking up a random DC comic c. now: it's okay i guess?? (probably)
Click to expand...

That's fairly accurate. I just don't think DC, or prospective readers, were hoping for an "Okay, I guess?" relaunch. I have only myself to blame for getting hyped and expecting something more substantive.

King's Batman embodies Rebirth perfectly. Build up hype for a "Visionary" creator (pun intended), sell us on a big storyline that will take Batman in interesting new directions, and then drop four straight issues of itsfuckingnothing.gif. Nothing memorable. One sweet action centerpiece. I can summarize every aspect of the story so far in one sentence.
 
B

BKatastrophe

Member
anaron said:
Super happy with the Oracle confirmation in today's Birds of Prey.


Trying to erase Bab's best role and story because of its "problematic" origin was so dumb.
Click to expand...
Yeah I didn't understand why they attempted to do that. "Problematic" though it was, she developed into an amazing character because of it. Reversing that is a worse offense at that point.
whatsinaname said:
Damn you for making me wade through this again. See GOTG #20. It's on MU.

Some Cancerverse Avengers attack Thanos, Drax, Quill and "Ryder". Shit happens and Nova is dying. He uses the cosmic cube with his last breath to open the door to send Quill and Drax back. But Thanos sneaks through too. Whoops.
Click to expand...

LordOfLore said:
Magus was killed by Mar-Vell for his small failure.
Magus returns in Annihilators and Warlock is back in 616 thanks to the Starlin Thanos books.

The original plan for Drax, Rich, Peter and Thanos in the Cancerverse was for the next arcs to feature their adventures, escape, the return of familiar faces(most guess Phyla would finally get a happy ending) and the surviving guardians doing their best going by what DnA has said. Sadly Marvel pretty much lied when they said the books would resume after the event so everything ends on a downer.

Funny enough IIRC, there's a female Nova in the future gotg timeline who has the last name of Rider and the Worldmind so something must've happened in that timeline.
Click to expand...
Much appreciated. I need to read Annihilators. I squealed like a small child when I opened up to that spread.
 
R

Ross61

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
I dont think any of them very interesting, or have the potential to be great. I look at a list of TCJ picking 83 of the best superhero projects from 2000-2009, and these books are either very good or at least artistically interesting. If we were composing a list for the current decade, I'm not sure how much of DC would be there. A lot of people like Snyder/Capullo Batman, although I'd sooner add Batman Inc. We both ditched Wonder Woman but at least it looked cool with Cliff Chiang drew it and took some ambitious chances with the character. Cameron Stewart/Babs Tarr Batgirl is kinda terrible, but it looked great. What else is there? A year from now, you think any of these current DC comics are gonna be good or interesting enough to put them on a list of the superheroic highlights? Cuz I dont see it. It just feels like a linewide return of decompressed competence, a conscious attempt to not rock the boat or doing anything too crazy attract people back.
Click to expand...
Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Midnighter, Multiversity, American Alien, Omega Men, Harley Quinn, Batman and Robin, Charles Soule run on Red Lanterns, and Grayson off the top of my head. But yeah, I do think this line has far great potential.

Like, I feel like were making some extreme hot takes right now.
 
D

diaspora

Member
Why... the fuck did
Miles' mom confront Jones rather than her own mother who hired her in the first place? What was she expecting?
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
I think the beginning of New 52 was more impressive. But I wasn't reading comics then and I've only read the good stuff (which has been quite a lot). But I mean, Batman, Justice League, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Earth 2, Batman and Robin, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Justice League Dark, Batgirl, Batwoman, Wonder Woman, and probably several more were good or better than good at this point in their runs. DC YOU was better too, IMO.

Of the Rebirth stuff I've read, Green Arrow and New Super-Man have been the only so far that have been near-universally praised. Batman is seen positively, but it's not nearly as good as Snyder's was at this time. I can't even judge Nightwing since literally all it did was tie up loose ends from his time during New 52. (edit: forgot Detective Comics; it's good)
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
I dont think any of them very interesting, or have the potential to be great. I look at a list of TCJ picking 83 of the best superhero projects from 2000-2009, and these books are either very good or at least artistically interesting. If we were composing a list for the current decade, I'm not sure how much of DC would be there. A lot of people like Snyder/Capullo Batman, although I'd sooner add Batman Inc. We both ditched Wonder Woman but at least it looked cool with Cliff Chiang drew it and took some ambitious chances with the character. Cameron Stewart/Babs Tarr Batgirl is kinda terrible, but it looked great. What else is there? A year from now, you think any of these current DC comics are gonna be good or interesting enough to put them on a list of the superheroic highlights? Cuz I dont see it. It just feels like a linewide return of decompressed competence, a conscious attempt to not rock the boat or doing anything too crazy attract people back.
Click to expand...

I would put Mieville's Dial H up there.

Maybe Toamsi/Gleason's B&R depending on how the 7th trade turns out. And Demon Knights.

And they are still publishing Astro City.
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
Tragicomedy said:
Everything feels decompressed as hell. Green Arrow is the only book that feels like it has gone anywhere. Action Comics and Batman are the most egregious, but everything is dragging on forever.
Click to expand...

That $2.99 value.

Speaking about decompression - I go through pages and pages of Lee/Kirby FF and read what feels like a whole modern day arc - and then I look back and see that it was only a 24 page single issue.
 
M

mreddie

Member
Okay, I read Ant-Man again and yeah,
the book set up 3 characters only for them to mean jackshit at the end.

Do I need to read Archer and Armstrong because one is dating Faith and it crosses over with Faith.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
Just finished Nighthawk and I'm surprised Marvel let's the book get away this kind of stuff. This is the only book that has every made me yelp and curse whenever the hero does something.
 
B

Brianimaniac

Banned
Tragicomedy said:
Everything feels decompressed as hell. Green Arrow is the only book that feels like it has gone anywhere.
Click to expand...
This is surprising to hear because Percy was a novelist before coming to comics, and novelists are so consistently terrible at pacing comics.

A buddy of mine had Percy as a professor.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
5zqjdKN.jpg
Click to expand...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIFqypghamV/
Rocafort on an X-Men comic?
 
F

frye

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
I dont think any of them very interesting, or have the potential to be great. I look at a list of TCJ picking 83 of the best superhero projects from 2000-2009, and these books are either very good or at least artistically interesting. If we were composing a list for the current decade, I'm not sure how much of DC would be there. A lot of people like Snyder/Capullo Batman, although I'd sooner add Batman Inc. We both ditched Wonder Woman but at least it looked cool with Cliff Chiang drew it and took some ambitious chances with the character. Cameron Stewart/Babs Tarr Batgirl is kinda terrible, but it looked great. What else is there? A year from now, you think any of these current DC comics are gonna be good or interesting enough to put them on a list of the superheroic highlights? Cuz I dont see it. It just feels like a linewide return of decompressed competence, a conscious attempt to not rock the boat or doing anything too crazy attract people back.
Click to expand...

yeah, I was just comparing early New 52 vs early Rebirth. New 52 DC was probably... the nadir of big two superheroics in a generation? An average bad Marvel comic was usually at least competently drawn and logically plotted, if dull and/or stupid, a bad DC comic was a total disaster on every level. Rebirth DC isn't very exciting to me but it's not that yet.

sidebar: that list reminded me that the 2000s were a pretty dope time for offbeat takes on superhero comics. I don't think we've gotten anything half as exciting as Authority/Ultimates/Wildcats/X-Statix/ etc this decade

e: Uber is probably on that level actually, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head
 
R

Ross61

Member
Right now, a major improvement would be taking Aquaman and GL(s) of twice monthly, new writer on Justice League and the GL books.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
whatsinaname said:
I would put Mieville's Dial H up there.

Maybe Toamsi/Gleason's B&R depending on how the 7th trade turns out. And Demon Knights.

And they are still publishing Astro City.
Click to expand...

Dial H would be there, and Astro City of course. Hypotically I'm interested to hear what you, fyre, etc would be on a Best superhero comics of the decade so far list. No order, they could just be one issue or a series, they could just be artistically interesting, just your opinion on "best".

-Uncanny X-Force #1-19 by Rick Remender, Jerome Opena, Esad Ribic, Dean White, etc
-Power Girl #1-12 by Justin Gray & Jimmy Palmiotti, Amanda Connor
-Secret Six by Gail Simone and Jim Calafiore
-The Batman Comics of Grant Morrison w/Yanick Paquette, Chris Burnham, Cameron Stewart, Frazier Irving, Ryan Sook, etc
-Multiversity by Grant Morrison, Frank Quitely, Cameron Stewart, Jim Lee, etc
-Thor: The Mighty Avenger by Roger Langridge and Chris Samnee
-Daredevil by Mark Waid, Marcos Martin, Paolo Rivera, Chris Samnee, etc
-Hawkeye by Matt Fraction, David Aja, Annie Wu, etc
-Secret Avengers by Warren Ellis with David Aja, Jamie McKelvie, Michael Lark, etc
-Moon Knight by Warren Ellis, Declan Shelvey, and Jordie Bellaire
-Action Comics by Paul Cornell, Pete Woods(the year long Lex Luthor story, that was dope)
-Agents of Atlas by Jeff Parker and Gabriel Hardman
-Uncanny Avengers by Rick Remender, Daniel Acuna, Mark McNiven
-Superior Spider-Man by Dan Slott, Ryan Stegman, Humberto Ramos, etc
-PunisherMAX by Jason Aaron, Steve Dillion, and Matt Hollingsworth
-DeadpoolMAX by David Lapham and Kyle Baker
-Thor: God of Thunder #1-12 by Jason Aaron, Esad Ribic, Nic Klien
-Captain America #1-10 by Rick Remender, John Romita Jr, Klaus Jensen
-Fantastic Four by Johnathan Hickman, Steve Epting, Dale Eaglesham
-Swamp Thing by Scott Snyder, Yanick Paquette & Marco Rudy
-Wonder Woman by Brian Azzarello, Cliff Chiang, etc
-Detective Comics "The Black Mirror" by Scott Snyder and Jock
-FuryMAX: My War Gone By by Garth Ennis and Goran Porlov
-Ultimate Spider-Man by Brian Michael Bendis, Stuart Immonen, Sara Pichelli
-Dial H by China Mieville, Mateus Santoluoco & David Lapham
-Young Avengers by Kieron Gillen & Jamie McKelvie
-Astro City by Kurt Busiek and Brent Anderson
-COPRA by Michel Fiffe
-Unbeatable Squirrel Girl by Ryan North and Erica Henderson
-Silver Surfer by Dan Slott and Michael Allred
-Grayosn by Tom King and Mikel Janin
-Vision by Tom King, Gabriel Walta, Jordie Bellaire
-Black Widow by Chris Samnee and Mark Waid
-Superman: American Alien by Max Landis, Nick Dragotta, Tommy Lee Edwards, Jae Lee, etc

(I would take that 2000s list in a heartbeat but we still got 3 and half years left?)
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
Brianimaniac said:
This is surprising to hear because Percy was a novelist before coming to comics, and novelists are so consistently terrible at pacing comics.

A buddy of mine had Percy as a professor.
Click to expand...

I'm making the comparison directly with the rest of the Rebirth lineup. Green Arrow pacing is average by modern comic book standards, but it feels downright nimble compared to what DC is pushing.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Tragicomedy said:
Everything feels decompressed as hell. Green Arrow is the only book that feels like it has gone anywhere. Action Comics and Batman are the most egregious, but everything is dragging on forever.
Click to expand...

Nothing makes my eyes glaze over more than reading DC Rebirth solicitations all starting with "Title of Story" part four! "Title of story" part seven! "title of story" part five! Like shit, was there an editorial mandate to make these all padded out for the trade?
 
L

LordOfLore

Banned
Vic_Viper said:
Where is this coming from? I'd like to read about it if there's an article or something. Really disappointing they weren't allowed to continue the series after Thanos Imperitive.
Click to expand...
I think sites like cosmicbooknews might've collected the info from interviews and Q&A's at cons. They set up multiple future plotlines they could do if the sales improved or Marvel gave them 12 more issues but they also made sure to be able to give an alright ending if Imperative ended up the grand finale. Things like the Raptors would've ended up way bigger and Black Bolt would return changed after Imperative.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Tizoc said:
The best way to read Hellboy and BPRD is this way
Read Hellboy up til Conqueror Worm
Then you can start BPRD
Alternate between BPRD and Hellboy until you've caught up.
Click to expand...

but then I have to spend more money and be even more confused about what order to read things
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Time to pay the piper Hank, you piece of shit.

watcher-disgusted.jpg
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
Dial H would be there, and Astro City of course. Hypotically I'm interested to hear what you, fyre, etc would be on a Best superhero comics of the decade so far list. No order, they could just be one issue or a series, they could just be artistically interesting, just your opinion on "best".

(I would take that 2000s list in a heartbeat but we still got 3 and half years left?)
Click to expand...

It's probably an unpopular opinion, but I think you picked the wrong Secret Avengers run. Like, those six issues are Great Comics, no doubt (the Aja Shang-Chi issue is still Aja's best work ever), but it's not really a run, you know? It's six comics by one writer coming one after the other.

I propose instead the Ales Kot and Michael Walsh run, which is a super funny comic that touches on big ideas (the place of modern superhero fiction in a post-9/11 world and how masculinity manifests itself in genre fiction) in the same pop-savvy way as Allred and Milligan's X-Force. It's a great, weird time, with the focus and accessibility that the rest of Kot's big works (I'm thinking Zero, Material, Change, comics that are completely okay with the idea of being polarizing, even alienating to a point) lack.

Über has already been mentioned, but really, most of Gillen's work deserves recognition, like Three, which is about as essential a comic as there is, especially as a reponse to 300, and Wicked + Divine, of course, which is, to me, the standard of what comics are in 2016.

If we're putting down more, I'm gonna add Fraction and Zdarsky's Sex Criminals, because it's as finely crafted a comedy comic as there is.

Those are my two cents for now, and there's probably a whole lot more.
 
F

frye

Member
ElNarez said:
It's probably an unpopular opinion, but I think you picked the wrong Secret Avengers run. Like, those six issues are Great Comics, no doubt (the Aja Shang-Chi issue is still Aja's best work ever), but it's not really a run, you know? It's six comics by one writer coming one after the other.

I propose instead the Ales Kot and Michael Walsh run, which is a super funny comic that touches on big ideas (the place of modern superhero fiction in a post-9/11 world and how masculinity manifests itself in genre fiction) in the same pop-savvy way as Allred and Milligan's X-Force. It's a great, weird time, with the focus and accessibility that the rest of Kot's big works (I'm thinking Zero, Material, Change, comics that are completely okay with the idea of being polarizing, even alienating to a point) lack.

Über has already been mentioned, but really, most of Gillen's work deserves recognition, like Three, which is about as essential a comic as there is, especially as a reponse to 300, and Wicked + Divine, of course, which is, to me, the standard of what comics are in 2016.

If we're putting down more, I'm gonna add Fraction and Zdarsky's Sex Criminals, because it's as finely crafted a comedy comic as there is.

Those are my two cents for now, and there's probably a whole lot more.
Click to expand...

the other big Gillen thing for a list like that is Journey into Mystery
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
ElNarez said:
It's probably an unpopular opinion, but I think you picked the wrong Secret Avengers run. Like, those six issues are Great Comics, no doubt (the Aja Shang-Chi issue is still Aja's best work ever), but it's not really a run, you know? It's six comics by one writer coming one after the other.

I propose instead the Ales Kot and Michael Walsh run, which is a super funny comic that touches on big ideas (the place of modern superhero fiction in a post-9/11 world and how masculinity manifests itself in genre fiction) in the same pop-savvy way as Allred and Milligan's X-Force. It's a great, weird time, with the focus and accessibility that the rest of Kot's big works (I'm thinking Zero, Material, Change, comics that are completely okay with the idea of being polarizing, even alienating to a point) lack.

Über has already been mentioned, but really, most of Gillen's work deserves recognition, like Three, which is about as essential a comic as there is, especially as a reponse to 300, and Wicked + Divine, of course, which is, to me, the standard of what comics are in 2016.

If we're putting down more, I'm gonna add Fraction and Zdarsky's Sex Criminals, because it's as finely crafted a comedy comic as there is.

Those are my two cents for now, and there's probably a whole lot more.
Click to expand...

My main theme was superhero comics, so I dont know if consider Wicked + Divine or Sex Criminals or Casanova, even though they have super powers.

That's a good point for Secret Avengers there, my shit wasn't set in stone in anything. I'm actually interested to hear what you guys would put up there.
 
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