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COMICS! |OT| July 2016. Everyone Loves A Hero, Everyone Loves You
- Thread starter Tyrant Rave
- Start date
Grant Morrison Humble Bundle (Mostly 18 Days)
echoshifting
Banned
Fixed
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Every news post without a link means we get five LordofLore posts about how much comics suck.
So, thanks.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
so I can avoid that second comic then
CBR is basically Wizard and BC is the TMZ for nerds. I saved you clicks.
But time for Civil War 2 #3
Yeah, coming from last week, this issue is kinda tough to sit though, not in a bad way but because how the shit went south.
The kids from ANAD Avengers are almost shellshocked, Banner trusting Hawkeye to kill him in case he hulks out to kill but by now, you know the game and Clint prematurely kills Banner. Turns out Banner is trying to reGamma himself and that's how Bendis got away with it. Half of it is set like a Legal Drama and it's kinda weird seeing this unfold after last week's 2 shootings.
Bendis can write good books but he sucks at events, he's just lucky with this one because how close to home it is.
LordOfLore
Banned
Hey, this was already posted before
Brianimaniac
Banned
Thanks.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
I was watching the episode of Parks and Rec when Ben wore the Batsuit and I saw the collected hardcover of Wednesday Comics in the background. Did anyone else get that? It was enormous and awesome. Most of the stories were not, but it was still a cool little experiment.
I didn't notice that! That's really cool. I enjoyed Wednesday Comics a lot.
echoshifting
Banned
I keep trying to type up some thoughts on CWII #3 and I can't really come up with much to say other than the issue was really good, surprisingly profound and it made me sad.
edit: I guess one thing I will say, going back and reading all the reactions to the spoilers that leaked last night in this thread, elsewhere on gaf and elsewhere on the internet, it bums me out that people who either aren't reading the book or care so little about it they'd spoil themselves before reading it end up controlling so much of the conversation when events like these clearly work so much better in the context of the issue.
edit: I guess one thing I will say, going back and reading all the reactions to the spoilers that leaked last night in this thread, elsewhere on gaf and elsewhere on the internet, it bums me out that people who either aren't reading the book or care so little about it they'd spoil themselves before reading it end up controlling so much of the conversation when events like these clearly work so much better in the context of the issue.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Please mark spoilers
RepairmanJack
Member
I keep forgetting that is a thing, so any time I see it mentioned I think they're announcing an Unlimited type of thing...
Stupid ass name.
So I read Civil War II #3 today...
It's pretty much this
Best part of the Civil War II thing was Power Man and Iron Fist #6. Those guys are smart. Old Man Logan #8 was a fun read too. Vision #9 rocked as usual. Next issue will be crazy.
It's pretty much this
- Not to be that other guy who is down on Bendis, but the Banner thing... really? In TAH Pak makes Bruce somewhat unhinged, but he seems grateful to not Hulk out about every little thing. In CW II however it looks like Bruce is trying several experiments to trigger some Hulk rage. Bruce seems different too. Yes, every writer has their own vision of the character, but I kind of felt a disconnect here.
- Damnit Barton. Stop making Clint the bad guy
- The issue wasn't bad or anything, but it wasn't great either. Dunno, I feel like Stark and Danvers aren't making any strides. Regarding Carol... I'm this close to just saying "Slayven is right" regarding her.
- Damnit Barton. Stop making Clint the bad guy
- The issue wasn't bad or anything, but it wasn't great either. Dunno, I feel like Stark and Danvers aren't making any strides. Regarding Carol... I'm this close to just saying "Slayven is right" regarding her.
Best part of the Civil War II thing was Power Man and Iron Fist #6. Those guys are smart. Old Man Logan #8 was a fun read too. Vision #9 rocked as usual. Next issue will be crazy.
Serpentine
Banned
Didn't realize there were so many issues of this. Is it a thing he actually writes or did he just create it and put his name on it while someone else scripts it
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
How are the Carol Corp fanbase reacting to Carol being the most evil incompetent person right now? lol
Hawkeye
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
CWIISPOI
except
it literally would not have happened without her and ulysses' intervention. they triggered the hulking themselves
My assumption is that they will be join Marvel Now after Clone Conspiracy and Death of X.
becaue every other character never done something bad / stupid
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Let's be real: she hasn't been heroic since Kelly stopped writing her.
Yea death of x equals new static q.
echoshifting
Banned
CWII #3 spoilers
She enabled him. Yes, Hawkeye is responsible for his actions, but she set the tone, she set the policy. We're going to start stopping things before they happen. She created the atmosphere of fear in which Hawkeye thought "this guy is DEFINITELY going to turn back into a rage monster and kill all of my friends" and acted on it.
We don't know how this Inhuman guy works, we have no way whatsoever of verifying the authenticity of his visions since we're constantly going to step into these situations before anything he saw actually happens, but let's make reacting to those visions the way we get it done now. All the time. That is the policy that Carol has proposed, implemented, and continues to defend and that's why she bears some responsibility here.
Don't get me wrong, this makes Hawkeye a murderer. That he probably won't pay for what he did at all is rather perverse. But Carol shouldn't get off either.
We don't know how this Inhuman guy works, we have no way whatsoever of verifying the authenticity of his visions since we're constantly going to step into these situations before anything he saw actually happens, but let's make reacting to those visions the way we get it done now. All the time. That is the policy that Carol has proposed, implemented, and continues to defend and that's why she bears some responsibility here.
Don't get me wrong, this makes Hawkeye a murderer. That he probably won't pay for what he did at all is rather perverse. But Carol shouldn't get off either.
This is also true.
Though I don't think he was hulking out at all which makes it a lot sadder to me.
Fewer and fewer words will be spoiler texted until everything that happens is obvious.
Makes sense.
yeah because Bruce Banner experimenting on himself unsupervised is safe and can never go wrong ever c'mon now.
Plus it was Bruce's plan, it was his decision to ask Hawkeye to kill him if he ever became a threat. Carol has no knowledge of that, and considering her track record (banishing the Death Celestial, apprehending Thanos), she clearly had no intent of killing Bruce.
As with War Machine's death, the only way Carol could've prevented it is if, ironically enough, could predict the future.
I rule it Suicide By Hawkeye.
Plus it was Bruce's plan, it was his decision to ask Hawkeye to kill him if he ever became a threat. Carol has no knowledge of that, and considering her track record (banishing the Death Celestial, apprehending Thanos), she clearly had no intent of killing Bruce.
As with War Machine's death, the only way Carol could've prevented it is if, ironically enough, could predict the future.
I rule it Suicide By Hawkeye.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
So outside of Event Fatigued I haven't really found Civil War II bad.
There's still 4 issues to go admittedly, but with all the vitriol Bendis has been getting lately I was expecting far far worse.
The Fridging of Rhodey and She Hulk was bad, but at least in my opinion, no one has come out looking derailed so far.
There's still 4 issues to go admittedly, but with all the vitriol Bendis has been getting lately I was expecting far far worse.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
I think they got the Why is Jessica being such a horrible nag? message, because she's better in this issue than the previous 5 combined.
The whole thing is super gray.
Yes Carol set the tone and especially after reading the latest issue of Sam Cap, it screams profiling. Unfortunately, the plausible deniability for her is that Hawkeye pulled the trigger.
Here's where it gets nuanced. Beast violated Banner's privacy, hacked into his system and provided proof that he was indeed experimenting on himself. Couple that with a warning (and frankly permission) from Banner himself that he was going to turn into a rage monster gave Hawkeye all the metaphorical ammunition he needed.
It sucks because there's no proof that Hulk would have turned into the Hulk outside of Ulysses' vision. One could argue that his vision prevented dozens of other crimes in other tie-ins, but all those incidents could have easily been prescribed as well.
I don't know. Carol isn't wrong. However, her view can cause things to unintentionally escalate as they have (one via collateral damage and another via the abuse of the law). Beast committed a criminal act. Hawkeye committed a criminal act.
If Carol's view is fighting for the greater good, regardless of consequence and disrespecting clear lines of privacy, profiling and collateral damage then she is bonkers. I don't think that's her view though. In fact, she has always been quite careful. Both these instances, Rhodey and Banner seemed a bit beyond her control.
Here's where it gets nuanced. Beast violated Banner's privacy, hacked into his system and provided proof that he was indeed experimenting on himself. Couple that with a warning (and frankly permission) from Banner himself that he was going to turn into a rage monster gave Hawkeye all the metaphorical ammunition he needed.
It sucks because there's no proof that Hulk would have turned into the Hulk outside of Ulysses' vision. One could argue that his vision prevented dozens of other crimes in other tie-ins, but all those incidents could have easily been prescribed as well.
I don't know. Carol isn't wrong. However, her view can cause things to unintentionally escalate as they have (one via collateral damage and another via the abuse of the law). Beast committed a criminal act. Hawkeye committed a criminal act.
If Carol's view is fighting for the greater good, regardless of consequence and disrespecting clear lines of privacy, profiling and collateral damage then she is bonkers. I don't think that's her view though. In fact, she has always been quite careful. Both these instances, Rhodey and Banner seemed a bit beyond her control.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
you people huh
Brianimaniac
Banned
Civil War II #3
Tony was right there with Carol. For all the talk about sides, they were cooperating on this one. They share blame.
Do you even have enough melanin to make that implication?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
ViewtifulJC
Banned
A fun character ensemble piece.
All the characters feel right and true to themselves.
Its wonderful to see Cass and Stephanie again.
It just feels right. Like its how the Bat family is supposed to be.
echoshifting
Banned
This is completely different from the Rhodey situation. Rhodes died fighting a serious cosmic threat, and if there was a lesson to be learned there it was that there could be unintended consequences in heeding Ulysses' visions. But Carol chose to chalk it up as just the ordinary risk intrinsic to being a super hero...which was a mistake.
So here we have them responding to the threat posed by someone who hasn't turned into the Hulk for a year...and when he was the Hulk, sometimes he was a good guy, sometimes he was a threat. Most recently, though, he was a good guy. So they respond to this by ambushing him at his home with as many super heroes as they can. We don't know why so many of them are right there - instead of, ya know, close enough to respond if shit goes down but not so close they're just going to make things worse - but really, it's dumb. It's dumb that they would create a situation in which Bruce "Hulking out" is even more likely to occur. And it's dumb for Carol to assume she has control over her "troops" and nobody will take matters into their own hands (which is what happened). It's dumb for her to forget that acting on a potential future has real consequences in the present, which is what happened to Rhodes.
And after the dust had settled, this is what she said in court:
"The vision was going to come true. But if you're asking me, I am sure what happened that day -- what happened saved many lives. The lives of many great soldiers and heroes. And Banner's own wishes were granted. I didn't know Barton was going to do what he did. It isn't what we planned. I didn't see him sneak off into the trees...but I know, in my heart, lives were saved because of it."
She presented herself as a reasonable voice in the situation, willing to accept that she could be wrong, when she was anything but. She rolled in there with as many guns as possible, and when one of those guns went off she says the guy did the right thing. Despite Banner's insistence that his experiments were keeping him from becoming the Hulk. Despite the fact that he wasn't hulking out. He didn't.
And she did it because she didn't actually doubt for a second that she was right. Despite the complete lack of Hulk in this story, well, it was still gonna happen so Hawkeye totally did the right thing.
So, yeah. She's wrong.
So here we have them responding to the threat posed by someone who hasn't turned into the Hulk for a year...and when he was the Hulk, sometimes he was a good guy, sometimes he was a threat. Most recently, though, he was a good guy. So they respond to this by ambushing him at his home with as many super heroes as they can. We don't know why so many of them are right there - instead of, ya know, close enough to respond if shit goes down but not so close they're just going to make things worse - but really, it's dumb. It's dumb that they would create a situation in which Bruce "Hulking out" is even more likely to occur. And it's dumb for Carol to assume she has control over her "troops" and nobody will take matters into their own hands (which is what happened). It's dumb for her to forget that acting on a potential future has real consequences in the present, which is what happened to Rhodes.
And after the dust had settled, this is what she said in court:
"The vision was going to come true. But if you're asking me, I am sure what happened that day -- what happened saved many lives. The lives of many great soldiers and heroes. And Banner's own wishes were granted. I didn't know Barton was going to do what he did. It isn't what we planned. I didn't see him sneak off into the trees...but I know, in my heart, lives were saved because of it."
She presented herself as a reasonable voice in the situation, willing to accept that she could be wrong, when she was anything but. She rolled in there with as many guns as possible, and when one of those guns went off she says the guy did the right thing. Despite Banner's insistence that his experiments were keeping him from becoming the Hulk. Despite the fact that he wasn't hulking out. He didn't.
And she did it because she didn't actually doubt for a second that she was right. Despite the complete lack of Hulk in this story, well, it was still gonna happen so Hawkeye totally did the right thing.
So, yeah. She's wrong.
I was gonna post the :gordonfreemanjc: but I couldn't find it.
Seriously though, what do people like about this book? It feels like a rerun in comicbook form.
If you look a couple of posts up you will see why I like it.
In some ways because it feels rerun esq. Comfy even.
Just good comics, with well written characters.
Also a sympathetic Clayface is great.
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