Aizo
Banned
Tokyo Ghost is really pretty, but I thought the writing was quite terrible. That and the appropriating of Japanese culture that Remender does in most of his books is at its worst here.
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ElBoxyBrown
Banned
What other book is he appropriating Japanese culture?
BKatastrophe
Member
Well, Uncanny X-Force does have Psylocke and that geisha chick that has the Apocalypse Twins, who also wear Japanese samurai-inspired armor.
I mean that's whatever though.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
But they're not white.
Also i guess Deadly class and the yakuza charcters and saya. Though it was a multinational School of assassins.
Well Psylocke techincally is but that's not his fault
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The whole Yakuza arc isn't being fronted by a white person. And yeah, Psylocke is Marvel's problem that Remender has no control over.
Yeah i was just reaching with that, when i think about it they are asian influences or characters in his work but i can never think of anything appropriating.
BKatastrophe
Member
This is true. The Apoc Twins are red and black.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Tokyo Ghost is the only one where I can kinda see the appropriation even though it's set in a future where Tokyo is multicultural. It's less offensive than say whatever the Iron Fist Netflix show is doing. Everything else that has to do with other people's cultures and/or problems is mainly lead by a person who isn't white.
He loves Akira.
The Apoc Twins are half Asian. They have different skin colors due to the Apocalypse genes.
BKatastrophe
Member
I'm just messing around.
whatsinaname
Member
The Baby Driver trailer got me thinking. What good vehicle chase sequences in comics can you think of?
There's the one in Black Widow #1 but it is fairly short.
There's the one in Black Widow #1 but it is fairly short.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Serpentine
Banned
Aizo
Banned
The fact that Remender is a white, American man is the key factor. The ethnicity of the characters is irrelevant.
When he has Famine (?), the geisha, talk in Uncanny Xforce about how a woman should be, that was just perpetuating the stereotypes that many Westerners believe about Japanese women.
I don't know if anyone else in ComicsGAF lives in Japan, but of course I'm going to be more sensitive to these things than other readers. The behavior I witness in Japan from Western tourists, especially regarding Japanese girls and women, is utterly disgusting. Sexualizing Japanese women and presenting Japan as nothing much more than land of samurai swords, geisha, ninja, honor, and shame is lazy. He is not even close to the only person in American comics doing this, but he happens to use Japan a lot, so that's why I target him. I actually love Uncanny X-Force and Deadly Class... although I'm pretty anxious about reading the issue going into Saya's background. Yikes.
Anyone I've talked to that actually understands Japanese culture has brought up that same criticism without me even mentioning it. Perhaps this just bothers Asians more than others, but that makes sense, as cultural appropriation of Asian cultures is pretty prevalent in America. It feels like Remender learned everything he knows about Japan from anime or something.
LordOfLore
Banned
Everyone loves Akira
Donniewahlberg
Banned
For me with Remender the last few years it's been Deadly Class and Low as two seriously good books. I enjoyed Deadly most initially, ubt kiiind of maybe am enjoying Low more now. The visuals are so good. After that Black Science & Tokyo ghost, but quite significantly below the other two. Both are visually great but just tons of issues with the writing held them back for me. Still to try Seven To Eternity.
If that's legit, that would be so disappointing once I finally get to see Logan. Have heard such universal praise for Logan, however quiet movie or not, I thought The Wolverine was out and out a bad movie from beginning to end.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Apocalypse recruited Ichisumi in 1833. I'm not an expert on Japanese history and Geisha but from what little I understand Geishas trained to be valuable companions and she believed she was destined to serve a greater purpose due to her occupation and mutant powers. This was 1833, not the modern day. She was brought from that time period to the modern world where that viewpoint was outdated.
Saya has Yakuza connections, just like Maria has Cartel connections, just like Viktor has KGB connections. It's a school of kids raised by famous killers. Remender could have had Saya be related to some unknown serial killer or something but Yakuza is honestly a much better topic to tell a story and it's really not as paint by the numbers. It's the late 80s. Some of the stuff I heard was that the Yakuza were pretty busy during that time of the year. With this story line and Sega's Yakuza 0 it's the perfect time to tell a Yakuza crime story.
Don't pretend manga and anime writers didn't have a hand in spreading these stereotypes. After all, more people read manga than comic books.
It's mandatory to like Akira if you are in the comic book industry.Everyone loves Akira
I also said it has better writing. It does what The Wolverine did, or in your opinion tried to do, but makes it way better. It's the anti-superhero movie the director wanted to make.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
Maybe I misinterpreted dude, the emphasise read (to me) on the two movies being generally the same. I wouldn't like to think Logan is anything like The Wolverine, since there were issues beyond the writing. Of course, I won't see it for awhile, so I can't say much more until I do actually see the other movie of the two.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The reason I compared it to The Wolverine was cuz that movie was as far away form a conventional superhero movie as you can get. Whether you think it succeeded or not it tried to do something different instead of bombastic explosions and having a large cast. Logan is the movie that perfected it.
Well until the Silver Megatron.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
Haha, I'm not sure I'm on-board with this (purely in terms of that assessment of The Wolverine) but I'm hearing you man, I appreciate what you're saying.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Logan is also a gritty modern day western. Does that make you excited?
From the guy who made 3:10 To Yuma too which was a good western
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I will not hear anymore slander towards The Wolverine.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
Yea, that sounds great man, one of the biggest draws of OLM in the comics to me was his whole setting. Huge fan of The Dark Tower here (always thought Jackman might play a good Roland actually, out of the modern actor pool) which is western mashed up with atypical genres like sci-fi, horror and so on, so that's a big draw point. I always assumed the actual concept of Old Man Logan, with the world passing on etc, had to be directely inspired by the tower. If the movie can capture some of that feel (although obviously several itmes removed from the comic due to practicality) that would be amazing.
Its just barely better then X-Men Origins :/
Yeah let's not go that far.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
People told me it got dumb in act 3 but they lied since the train scene happens in act 2.
Nah it's miles better than that, not having Will.I.am and Taylor Kitsch in it helps a lot.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
That was a dope scene.
One of the better scenes honestly.
Aizo
Banned
He chose to put a geisha in the comic. He chose to have a Japanese girl as one of the main characters. He chose to write Tokyo Ghost. He definitely likes to add Japan into many of his comics. Your arguments in support of his use of Japanese culture still don't convince me that his depictions are not just misguided charicatures.
Manga authors perpetuating stereotypes is one thing, what with their distinct form of sexism and all, but I don't think that excuses other writers from doing the same. Of course I'm critical of sexism in manga, but their depictions and exaggerations of Japanese imagery are obviously different from cultural appropriation.
Your barely better than Origins.
I'm sorry that was mean.
My big love for Millers & Clearmonts Wolverine Graphic Novel may factor in. Cause its an awful adaptation of one of the best Comics ever made.
Anyone noticed, that Wolverine Movies mostly revolve around his Healing Factor?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The director probably feels he can tell a personal story if Wolverine's healing is failing him.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
I would put that one beyond Fox too, Marvel seemed to have storytelling issues/debate internally in the vein of the "superman is too powerful" problem before killing him off. Lots of adjusting his healing levels, Aaron did the whole closer to hell thing etc
Dude no.
Origins is terrible. The Wolverine is decent. Shame about the ending. Allthough I had a laugh with all the people freaking about the airport scène with Xavier lol.
Fucking with his healing factor is really the only thing that humbles the character. I really like the idea behind stories that show what happens when the one thing he relies on so much is taken away from him. Obviously execution varies wildly.
Psylocke is basically a yellowface fantasy.
It's sorta cool as a body swap plotline like Claremont intended it to be, but when writers (including Remender) have her appropriating Japanese culture and wearing kimonos and doing tea ceremonies, I just find that indefensible.
And, like, Rick "drown yourself in hobo piss" Remender hasn't exactly shown himself to be the most culturally sensitive person.
Claremont also had a lot of Japan fixation in his comics but, like, I felt it was more respectful? I'm not sure if anyone else would agree with that but when he wrote about Japan it felt like A Place People Live In (well the superhero version of that anyway).
Wayward is another comic where it's a white guy writing about Japan, but I think he does a good job.
It's sorta cool as a body swap plotline like Claremont intended it to be, but when writers (including Remender) have her appropriating Japanese culture and wearing kimonos and doing tea ceremonies, I just find that indefensible.
And, like, Rick "drown yourself in hobo piss" Remender hasn't exactly shown himself to be the most culturally sensitive person.
Claremont also had a lot of Japan fixation in his comics but, like, I felt it was more respectful? I'm not sure if anyone else would agree with that but when he wrote about Japan it felt like A Place People Live In (well the superhero version of that anyway).
Wayward is another comic where it's a white guy writing about Japan, but I think he does a good job.
Read the first few issues of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - this is surprisingly great!
No pretty women, which is a shame because I kind of wanted to read something along those lines, but it's dope.
Seems like there's 10+ trades out for this and it's still ongoing - are there any good 'jumping off' points?
Fear Agent was amazing... really emotional wrap up for sure.
No pretty women, which is a shame because I kind of wanted to read something along those lines, but it's dope.
Seems like there's 10+ trades out for this and it's still ongoing - are there any good 'jumping off' points?
Fear Agent was amazing... really emotional wrap up for sure.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Reminder is far from an asshole compared numerous comic writers who gladly take pride in offending people. Dude isn't Frank Fucking Cho. Psylocke is an extremely unfortunate situation that cannot be undone by any writer. Marvel wants her to be Asian and forget about the problematic origin.
Whether or not he kicks dogs on the side or whatever he still wrote that blitheringly tone deaf issue of Uncanny Avengers about the "M" word and how hard it is when no one wants to listen to white dudes complain.
And it's not just the matter of Psylocke's horrifying racist origins, it's that writers take it one step further and treat her like she's actually Japanese. Remender continued this trend so he deserves shit for it.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
I've read Fear Agent, but can't say I was enamored with it. In so up and down with Remender haha. Sometimes his reliance on inner monologue works for me, sometimes it drives me nuts. The one arc of fear agent I really liked was when he goes to the horror spirit planet? Can't remember the details but I remember digging that.
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