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COMICS! |OT| May 2014. I for one welcome our new Amazon overlords.

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I always thought that was kinda weird, because they were hyping up Jack Kirby like crazy in the house ads. "KIRBY IS COMING".

Kirby+is+Coming+-+Kirby's+Fourth+World+-+Studd.jpg


And then they're like "oh shit wait what about the house style". Make up your mind, damnit, do you want The King or not

2013-02-21_222349_kirbysuperman01.jpg


supermanhead1.jpg
supermanhead2.jpg
 
Brilliant. You're quite talented at not addressing my complaints but instead making childish assertions about medical conditions or laying out silly strawman arguments to make your case.

I've stated that Quitely cannot draw faces and everything he does looks like crap. You made up some dumb argument for me where apparently I said all his faces are identical (which I never stated), then backed it up by posting two side by side faces that are absolutely atrocious garbage.

Thanks for making my case for me.

I realize that comic book fans can be insular to the point of justifying the absurd, but there's even division within the ranks about Quitely. Sadly, your opinion on the topic is no more valid than ours. Even his biggest fans recognize that his face work ranges from bad to God awful. Trying to dismiss that is silly.

If you take a Quitely drawing of the X-Men or Superman to people familiar with the characters but not hardcore comic fans, you'll get a bunch of head scratching and disbelief. I've shown his New X-Men run to my wife, brothers, and several coworkers and they think I'm trolling them. "This is bad fan art, right?"

Sometimes separation from the subject grants a more objective perspective. I highly doubt that future generations of comic fans will hold Quitely in high regard. It'll be more along the lines of "people liked this crap?"

It's the same in either side of the argument, dude. Art is subjective, which makes us both right and wrong.

I just seem to be having more fun. There's no point in legitimately arguing taste, nor is there any point in predicting it's future. Look at a Jack Kirby face. Looks like a hock of pork with eyebrows. Dude's still the best comic book artist who ever lifted a brush.

I don't really care who does or doesn't like Frank Quitely, man. I came up the game reading Cerebus. I can't be shook.
 

tm24

Member
Yyyyup. You'd be right.

People have shown their ass really badly during this whole thing. Between this and that weird t-shirt, it's been a really reductive few weeks.

I mean, just read that shit again. It sounds like some fucked up Anonymous-lite manifesto a thirteen year-old tries to write.

The entire thing makes me sad to be a comic fan because people still think that's the actual fanbase. Like when people find out about my collection, they're all like, but you do sports and music and all that, you don't seem like a comic book guy and then they compare me to the stereotypical comic book that works in my store. The entire thing just infuriates me.

Who would you all consider as your favorite artist if you could only pick one?

It's pretty much a toss up between Adrian Alphona and Alex Maleev for me. Maleev wins barely for me
 

kswiston

Member
I was going to bring up Kirby last night when we were talking about faces, but decided against it since he came from a different era when your characters didn't need to look like pinups. He was one of the most creative artists who ever lived, but based on some standards in this thread, he would be considered shit.

I am not sure who I would pick as that singular favourite artist. I'd have an easier time narrowing down my favourite (current) writer, and even then it would be between 5 people
 
Any Star Wars books worth picking up in the Amazon sale? I wonder if they will transfer over to comixology at some point.

If you have the Dark Horse comics app, they have Clone Wars 1-4, Knights of the Old Republic 1-4, and Legacy (the first one) 1-4 for free. Try those out to see if you like 'em.

Personally, I bought the first volume of Clone Wars for $1.99 and am debating buying the whole run + Dark Times.

Rebellion, Legacy, and KOTOR are tempting as hell as well.
 

The fact that Al Plastino isn't on that list kind of invalidates it. The iconic look for Superboy, Superman, Supergirl, the Legion (dude literally co-created both Supergirl and the Legion) and many other things came from him. He had an impact on nearly three decades of art. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the votes from that list were merely the names that people could actually remember.
 

kswiston

Member
The fact that Al Plastino isn't on that list kind of invalidates it. The iconic look for Superboy, Superman, Supergirl, the Legion (dude literally co-created both Supergirl and the Legion) and many other things came from him. He had an impact on nearly three decades of art. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the votes from that list were merely the names that people could actually remember.

CBR lists suffer from the same problem that GAF lists do. Recent stuff is heavily favoured as everyone remembers/has read it.
 

Filthy Slug

Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
Brilliant. You're quite talented at not addressing my complaints but instead making childish assertions about medical conditions or laying out silly strawman arguments to make your case.

I've stated that Quitely cannot draw faces and everything he does looks like crap. You made up some dumb argument for me where apparently I said all his faces are identical (which I never stated), then backed it up by posting two side by side faces that are absolutely atrocious garbage.

Thanks for making my case for me.

I realize that comic book fans can be insular to the point of justifying the absurd, but there's even division within the ranks about Quitely. Sadly, your opinion on the topic is no more valid than ours. Even his biggest fans recognize that his face work ranges from bad to God awful. Trying to dismiss that is silly.

If you take a Quitely drawing of the X-Men or Superman to people familiar with the characters but not hardcore comic fans, you'll get a bunch of head scratching and disbelief. I've shown his New X-Men run to my wife, brothers, and several coworkers and they think I'm trolling them. "This is bad fan art, right?"

Sometimes separation from the subject grants a more objective perspective. I highly doubt that future generations of comic fans will hold Quitely in high regard. It'll be more along the lines of "people liked this crap?"

My last words on this: You haven't put forth any sort of intelligent argument. It's pseudo-intelligent horseshit that boils down to "whataboutthefaces, yeah but whataboutthefaces, butthefaces.." You've dismissed the posts from Birdie and others that clearly showcase how talented and creative Quitely is--what, with distinguishing between Clark and Superman in a believable way for the first time ever in comics; or from his We3 work where time moves faster for the animals, panels slit like split-second windows while humans are demolished by these scientific prisoners seeking only to be 'gud' animals; or just from his ability to give characters an aura (Emma is cold, ruthless) and defining features (Superman is relaxed,warm like a Sun God would be if he came to our planet and accepted it as his own).

You're monomaniacal with your argument, like a proud drunk, and you're just stuck in a repetitious loop. In your own attempts at argument, you've undermined what you've said, you've posted other message board posts (from ign of all places)to try to gain some credibility, as if two dumb opinions suddenly make an argument, and you've used anecdotal evidence such as: I showed my wife and my coworkers and they said "loldeviantart fanwank". None of that amounts to a deep argument or even a semi-solid one, so stop patting yourself on the back. It just means that the people you surround yourself with are people who don't understand good storytelling and maybe they should come here and read some of Viewtiful JC's posts on it.

Frank Quitely has birthed some of the best and most important art and storytelling in the comics medium over the last 20 years. Sucks that you can't handle that.
 
It's the same in either side of the argument, dude. Art is subjective, which makes us both right and wrong.

I just seem to be having more fun. There's no point in legitimately arguing taste, nor is there any point in predicting it's future. Look at a Jack Kirby face. Looks like a hock of pork with eyebrows. Dude's still the best comic book artist who ever lifted a brush.

I don't really care who does or doesn't like Frank Quitely, man. I came up the game reading Cerebus. I can't be shook.

I agree with this 100%.

You're monomaniacal with your argument, like a proud drunk, and you're just stuck in a repetitious loop. In your own attempts at argument, you've undermined what you've said, you've posted other message board posts (from ign of all places)to try to gain some credibility, as if two dumb opinions suddenly make an argument, and you've used anecdotal evidence such as: I showed my wife and my coworkers and they said "loldeviantart fanwank". None of that amounts to a deep argument or even a semi-solid one, so stop patting yourself on the back. It just means that the people you surround yourself with are people who don't understand good storytelling and maybe they should come here and read some of Viewtiful JC's posts on it.

Frank Quitely has birthed some of the best and most important art and storytelling in the comics medium over the last 20 years. Sucks that you can't handle that.

Reading comprehension is important, so let me break down what I wrote in kindergarten terms.

Those links weren't meant to establish credibility or make my case. Someone stated that it was the strangest opinion they've ever heard. I literally Googled "Frank Quitely faces suck" and posted several random returns. Those served to illustrate that mine isn't an uncommon or shocking opinion. This very thread is proof that a lot of people dislike his artwork. I'll be more than happy to start a poll on the OT side if you want (since LOLIGN). You won't like the results, though.

Secondly, I think it's very fair to use real world interactions I've had with non comic fans and their subsequent reactions to Quitely as examples of how he might be perceived by others. I never said my wife speaks for popular opinion, just that she likes the X-Men and thinks his art is trash. That's called an opinion, and it's no less valid than yours.

I do appreciate your deeper understanding of good storytelling in comics. I've only been reading them since the mid-80s and clearly cannot hang with your superior refined tastes. Maybe you have a comic blog I can read our workshop I could attend?

Sometimes it's worth taking a moment to look into the mirror when posting pseudo intellectual BS in attempts to pass your opinion off as fact. I haven't argued any "facts," just my opinion. Your post is attempting to push your opinion as factual, and suffers as a result. You don't have a monopoly on good taste nor are you any good at arguing in absolutes.

The most ironic thing you could possibly have written: "None of that amounts to a deep argument or even a semi-solid one, so stop patting yourself on the back." Stop patting yourself on the back, indeed.
 
i don't like quitely's pudgy faced, weak-chinned characters either. they all look like pigs with flabby muscles. he has a good sense of action though.

give me immonen, bachalo or allred any day.
 

Kipp

but I am taking tiny steps forward
My last words on this: You haven't put forth any sort of intelligent argument. It's pseudo-intelligent horseshit that boils down to "whataboutthefaces, yeah but whataboutthefaces, butthefaces.." You've dismissed the posts from Birdie and others that clearly showcase how talented and creative Quitely is--what, with distinguishing between Clark and Superman in a believable way for the first time ever in comics; or from his We3 work where time moves faster for the animals, panels slit like split-second windows while humans are demolished by these scientific prisoners seeking only to be 'gud' animals; or just from his ability to give characters an aura (Emma is cold, ruthless) and defining features (Superman is relaxed,warm like a Sun God would be if he came to our planet and accepted it as his own).

You're monomaniacal with your argument, like a proud drunk, and you're just stuck in a repetitious loop. In your own attempts at argument, you've undermined what you've said, you've posted other message board posts (from ign of all places)to try to gain some credibility, as if two dumb opinions suddenly make an argument, and you've used anecdotal evidence such as: I showed my wife and my coworkers and they said "loldeviantart fanwank". None of that amounts to a deep argument or even a semi-solid one, so stop patting yourself on the back. It just means that the people you surround yourself with are people who don't understand good storytelling and maybe they should come here and read some of Viewtiful JC's posts on it.

Frank Quitely has birthed some of the best and most important art and storytelling in the comics medium over the last 20 years. Sucks that you can't handle that.

Case closed. Now we can move on to our next frequently controversial topic. Grant Morrison: Transcendental Genius or Drug-Crazed Weirdo?


Also, this has nothing to do with anything, but recently I've been thinking about how much I loved Frank Miller's Martha Washington. I feel like not enough people have read that. Excellent story, excellent art.

Edit: Oh, and I finally got around to reading Breath of Bones: A Tale of the Golem. The story was very mediocre, but the art was nice. ...I really wish I was better at writing reviews.
 

kswiston

Member
I am pro Grant Morrison, but some of his stuff is less accessible than others.

I loved Animal Man, but had a hard time getting into the Invisibles. His mainstream superhero stuff can range all over the place too.
 

Kipp

but I am taking tiny steps forward
I am pro Grant Morrison, but some of his stuff is less accessible than others.

I loved Animal Man, but had a hard time getting into the Invisibles. His mainstream superhero stuff can range all over the place too.

Noooooooooo. I was just kidding! I'm not sure I can handle another long, heated argument.
Although I do think I basically share your opinion there.
 
is it too late to call out overrated talent. because i think i hate Michael Turner
Read the free issue of Madman. I think I'm going to buy the trade, I loved it. Becoming a big fan of the Allreds.
I haven't read a whole lot of it but what i have is pretty fuuuuuun. it's cool to see his style evolve over time
Who would you all consider as your favorite artist if you could only pick one?
might have to go with Allred, tbh. I'm relatively new to the game though
Jim Lee is uncontested GOAT though, right?

Right?
I loved Lee when I was getting into comics but then as i continued on, his stuff wasn't as exciting to me. and also ya look at his old stuff and he's barely improved from his X-Men days
 
i don't like quitely's pudgy faced, weak-chinned characters either. they all look like pigs with flabby muscles. he has a good sense of action though.

give me immonen, bachalo or allred any day.

Nope. Like me you are wrong and your opinion is invalid. Quitely is the best and we clearly lack the understanding, knowledge, and IQ required to see the truth.

And people wonder why we comic book nerds are perceived as elitist, insular, basement dwelling neckbeards by everyday Joes. I feel like I'm arguing with this guy:

Stuart1.jpg
 

Filthy Slug

Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
Tangent: Should i start ordering Batman and Robin again at issue #33/Robin Rises? I dropped it because i didn't like the long first arc and wasn't interesting and i didn't pick it back up again.

Yes, read it all. It's excellent and the team gets their footing after the first arc.
 
Who would you all consider as your favorite artist if you could only pick one?

oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck. How am I supposed to choose just one? Probably Maleev or Allred ftw. But I also like Bachalo, Conner, Ottley, Pichelli and Staples. Wait, wait, wait... no... Conner wins.
 

kswiston

Member
I know we make fun of his current work, but Neal Adams paved the way for the Jim Lees of the 90s and 2000s. Dude really shook up superhero art.
 

Kipp

but I am taking tiny steps forward
if you want to get a peak in to morrisons head , i recomend reading Supergods

I definitely want to read this sometime.

However, even though I have the utmost respect and appreciation for Morrison's work, I have a really hard time taking him seriously when he goes on talking about magic and stuff (as in, in interviews, not in a comic). Does Morrison stay away from talking about how magic is a real thing that exists in real life in Supergods?
 
I definitely want to read this sometime.

However, even though I have the utmost respect and appreciation for Morrison's work, I have a really hard time taking him seriously when he goes on talking about magic and stuff (as in, in interviews, not in a comic). Does Morrison stay away from talking about how magic is a real thing that exists in real life in Supergods?

no but there is a cahpter on hall the hallocgens he took in india
 

Kipp

but I am taking tiny steps forward
no but there is a cahpter on hall the hallocgens he took in india

Okay cool. I can deal with that. I'll definitely pick it up sometime.

From what I recall, not really. He explains some of his drug experiences and how those influenced his perspectives and whatnot. More explaining his points of reference than being declarative or proselytizing.

Cool. I don't mind that at all. In fact, I'm really interested to read about that.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
I definitely want to read this sometime.

However, even though I have the utmost respect and appreciation for Morrison's work, I have a really hard time taking him seriously when he goes on talking about magic and stuff (as in, in interviews, not in a comic). Does Morrison stay away from talking about how magic is a real thing that exists in real life in Supergods?

From what I recall, not really. He explains some of his drug experiences and how those influenced his perspectives and whatnot. More explaining his points of reference than being declarative or proselytizing.
 

Chinner

Banned
thanks for the suggestions guys, will look into Y The Last Man , Fables and DayTripper.

In the mean time i'm jumping into the Punisher, both the new 2014 and the 2011 with Big Boss Punisher. people seem to like the max series too.
 
Almost forgot to post list

Veil #3
Wake #8
Ada + Alex #3
Fatale #22
Rat Queens #6
Iron Fist Living Weapon #2
Original Sin #1
She-Hulk #4
Red Sonja #9
 

Tizoc

Member
OK you wanna know which artist whose art I am most disappointed with?
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers...transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye-22-1152/

James Raiz. Why he was chosen to be the artist for Robert's story parts during Dark Cybertron is beyond me, as his art totally does not fit with the theme and style of the series.
For one thing, everyone may as well be sameface and have the same freakin' expression on their faces, there's no emotion, no life.
I'm sad to say I dislike his art because I see potentiel in it. If anything I do hope his art improves and I start liking it more, sorta like Howard Porter (not a big fan of his JLA art, but his art improved in other series and I liked it there)
 
Any Star Wars books worth picking up in the Amazon sale? I wonder if they will transfer over to comixology at some point.
Not the Brain Wood stuff. I know it sold well because he is a "name" and it was OT Stars Wars but i was as plain and myopic as can be. Marvel will not make the same mistake....
 

kswiston

Member
I would like to think that I could just skip Original Sin, but I can't... It looks like it ties into the ongoing Avengers/New Avengers storyline, and I am in too deep to quit now :/

Hopefully we get good Jason Aaron, and not AvX Jason Aaron, to make up for it.
 
Not the Brain Wood stuff. I know it sold well because he is a "name" and it was OT Stars Wars but i was as plain and myopic as can be. Marvel will not make the same mistake....
there hasn't been any single issue in recent memory that has taken me as long to read as his Star Wars #1. it was just so boring
 

Vibranium

Banned
Who would you all consider as your favorite artist if you could only pick one?

Even though I am young and entered comics with the "modern age", it's between The King and Romita Sr. (I selfishly wish Jr had followed his dad's style) for me, so hard. I'll have to go with Jack as my absolute fav of all time, I wish he was brought back to life so he could draw all my favorite characters. Reading through all the classics and golden age stuff recently, it's clear these guys were real-life superheroes.

Kirby would show Aja how to actually put stuff out at a fast rate, without quality being affected. There would have been no fricking delays on Hawkeye if the King was there.
 
Is this post sarcastic or sincere?

It's sincere, and besides the point. The fact that Quitely has great layout skills doesn't do anything to disprove the opinion that his people look like garbage.

It's like if I go to a taco truck for a meal. And what I get is a taco with a turd in it. Well... that's not right. But wait, they say. The taco truck got to this location in under 2 minutes. It's super speedy. Well sure, I say, but there's this turd in my taco. But wait, they say... the taco truck is festively decorated with streamers and large balloon animals and colorful lights and surround sound music. Well sure, but there's a turd in my taco. But wait, they say, the taco comes on a real ceramic plate with a high quality stainless steel fork. Well sure, but you're not acknowledging that I've got a turd in my taco. But wait, they say, the price is only 30 cents and it comes delivered in 10 seconds flat and you get great service with a smile. Well sure, but that doesn't help the fact that I've got a turd in my taco.

It doesn't matter if they can do all these other things great, because at the end of the day I'm still stuck with a turd in my taco.
 
It's sincere, and besides the point. The fact that Quitely has great layout skills doesn't do anything to disprove the opinion that his people look like garbage.

It's like if I go to a taco truck for a meal. And what I get is a taco with a turd in it. Well... that's not right. But wait, they say. The taco truck got to this location in under 2 minutes. It's super speedy. Well sure, I say, but there's this turd in my taco. But wait, they say... the taco truck is festively decorated with streamers and large balloon animals and colorful lights and surround sound music. Well sure, but there's a turd in my taco. But wait, they say, the taco comes on a real ceramic plate with a high quality stainless steel fork. Well sure, but you're not acknowledging that I've got a turd in my taco. But wait, they say, the price is only 30 cents and it comes delivered in 10 seconds flat and you get great service with a smile. Well sure, but that doesn't help the fact that I've got a turd in my taco.

It doesn't matter if they can do all these other things great, because at the end of the day I'm still stuck with a turd in my taco.

No matter what metaphors you create, the truth is, in the case of this particular metaphor, is that it's a pork taco truck and you like steak.

It's not objectively shit, and I think deep down, you know that. I think all of you do.
 
No matter what metaphors you create, the truth is, in the case of this particular metaphor, is that it's a pork taco truck and you like steak.

It's not objectively shit, and I think deep down, you know that. I think all of you do.

In my opinion, his face work is shit. As in, his faces are among the very worst you can find in mainstream comics.

His other stuff ranges from bad to absolutely excellent, depending on what we're discussing.
 
No matter what metaphors you create, the truth is, in the case of this particular metaphor, is that it's a pork taco truck and you like steak.

It's not objectively shit, and I think deep down, you know that. I think all of you do.

I never said it was objectively shit. How can it be? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
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