Pretty much. The experience only really begins after $700.
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COMICS! |OT| November 2014. The Wakandan turkey leglock is a time-honored tradition!
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
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Pretty much. The experience only really begins after $700.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If you pick up 30+ bland ass Nu52 books and think they're generally good-to-great, you'll never know
I'm no art major and I'm also bad at reviews and such, so I'm the wrong person to ask.
All I can tell you is that art is subjective and something about it massively appeals to me.
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
I swear, some people like artists with incredible artistic talent and flourishes that aren't ubiquitous in standard ass cape comics. There's a whole fuckton of personality seeping through Bertram's art that instantly clicked with me, and the amount of fine detail that he puts into his panels, alongside his ability to create genuinely fascinating panel layouts, is absurd:
At the end of the day, Ian Bertram is an infinitely more interesting artist than somebody like, say, Jason Fabok.
GrandHarrier
Member
Yeah, they even managed to revamp him to look kind of cool for the book, but man is that name ever terrible! Also, I'm pretty sure that's the last he'll be seen since the reboot wiped out all the Penders characters IIRC, and he should fall under that net I'd imagine.
Who cares when we can use it as an opportunity to shit on each others tastes?
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Yea...I like both artists shown for different reasons.
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
I don't think it's a "fuck you, I'm right debate", man. We're just having a good ole fashioned art debate and probably exposing each other to why we like the art we like. Ain't nothing wrong with that, is there?
As long as in the end everyone agrees that Quitely is the best, I would assume you are right.
Also, Quitely is the best.
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
But what about Juanjo Guarnido? Great artist and all-around nice guy from what I hear.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
nah, cats in here catch feelings real quick. Run off to Figure-GAF because people don't want to scroll through niggas talking about post counts and olivia wilde gifs and waifus. I aint said shit about all the dudes blasting Frank Quitely, at the expense of dull-as-dishwater Tony Daniel DC house style. At this point, we're talking about two completely incompatible worldviews.
GrandHarrier
Member
Panel layout's is an entirely different beast. And I'll grant you that some of the layouts have been interesting. But does this literally boil down to, "It's a unique flower?"
I may come off dickish in regards to shit like Quitely and Bertram. But it's honest to God something I seriously want to understand. Like, I get that art tastes are subjective. But when all time lists put Quitely near or at the top or Bertram's art is heralded as the second coming I just want to know. Not many artists raise my ire enough to post about it. Honestly, I think Quitely and Bertram are the only consistent ones. Typically I just sort of shrug and chalk it up to tastes.
But Goddamnit. I just don't get it and I want to.
GrandHarrier
Member
So you say it is "dull". But is it good? Do you look at Tony Daniel artwork and think "That guy can't draw for shit" but look at Bertram and think "Fuck yeah. This is second coming type shit." Is it just because it's different? If all art was Bertram art, if Bertram's "European Style" was the norm and house style, would you dislike it?
What a douche. I didn't enjoy Amarillo at all. It may have been because of his attitude, and the fact that it was shit compared to the other books.
I'm going to try We3 because of your avatar alone.
Honestly if you don't get it after We3 - which let's face it, is one of the 4 or 5 best action comics of all time - you probably won't ever get it
Gaze upon El Gaucho and weep at his beauty. Bertram draws him absolutely dripping with machismo, just the way the Batman of Argentina should look. I majored in fine art for two years in college, so believe me, I get that everyone appreciates different things. But man, I dunno how you can look at that panel and not get stoked to read that comic. Those characters have so much personality.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
What's an artist that would have comic GAF universal appeal? I nominate J .H. Williams III. Who can not love this guys work eh?
GH do read WE3 that's on sale. It's by far quitelys best work and the story is amazing. Only $3! Give it a whirl
GH do read WE3 that's on sale. It's by far quitelys best work and the story is amazing. Only $3! Give it a whirl
Before anything else, I want to be clear that I don't mind at all that you dislike Bertram or Quitely or whoever and I'm happy that you do like Tony Daniel and the more "house style" artists.
With that said, I think the house style people like Tony Daniel and whoever else are technically very good and I can look at it and say "Man, that guy sure can draw." But it just doesn't do anything for me at all. It's the same as certain genres of music. I think good jazz artists are absolutely incredible and I'm astounded by their musicianship, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't bring myself to really enjoy the music. It just doesn't connect with me in that way. I mean, I even played in a jazz band for a year, but I still can't put on a Miles Davis CD and get into it. That doesn't mean I dislike it, it just doesn't connect with me in that way.
I think the one thing we can all agree on though is that Wimberley's She-Hulk was some truly great art.
Morbius or Miller.
My personal universal favorite is Darwyn Cooke. That man is comics at its most pure and fun. It's hard to not look at his art and be reminded of what it is to be heroic.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
it's a good thing we don't judge all art purely on technical skill
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I've always been fascinated over how artists choose their "style." I've considered making a thread about it.
It's been, what, five months? And we STILL don't have our El Gaucho ongoing drawn by Bertram.
It's a first-class outrage.
Oh my goodness.
Amazing.
GrandHarrier
Member
When I look at something like that I don't see people. I see caricatures. over exaggerations, hyper proportions that people would mock in a Liefeld panel. I can't see them as "real" even in the fake universe that they inhabit.
Yeah, JHW3 is pretty good. Unique panel layouts and skillful art style.
As for WE3, I typically don't buy digitally. Is it $3 for all of it?
Freezasaurus
Member
Holy shit gaiz, what did I miss? You get your thread full of masturbatory comic analysis, and you're still at each other's throats. I blame Korupt.
Line kn the sand!
Which con you going to? Scope out who will be there (artists, vendors, etc) and make a list of things you will potentially buy and then just throw in another $200 for misc items and food.
As for other items, take a backpack, snacks and your drink(s) of choice. Also, take any floppies or trades you want signed if any of their respective creators are there.
Can i pencil you in for a four o'clock potato debate?
Freezasaurus
Member
Absolutely. I have an interesting theory about potatoes I'd like to bring to the table.
GrandHarrier
Member
I can't imagine you don't have a figure for this scenario. Perhaps a Portal 2 Potato Glados?
GrandHarrier
Member
This cannot be stressed enough. You're going to get thirsty fast if you frequent any of the packed halls. That shit gets heated quick and even if you don't mind paying out the ass for food and water at the con itself the lines will be insane. Sometimes 30+ minutes just to get through the lines.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Liefeld lacks both the technical skill and the aesthetic sensibilities required to make stylized imagery broadly appealing, but I do agree with others that Bertram does hit the right notes. It's why you have people saying stuff like "I can't quite figure out why but it's appealing to me." It may look like crap if you're judging it point-for-point against an Alex Ross painting or something, but no one should be doing that.
Obviously it's your opinion and of course the stuff you're referencing isn't bland or bad in any way, but if we instantly rejected all comic art that could be labeled as "exaggerated" or with stylized proportions or something, then it WOULD be a pretty fucking bland industry.
I don't want artists to try and make art that EVERYONE will love but I think it's strange for someone to turn their nose up at something they don't consider "real" when we're talking about freakin' comics books, especially superhero comics. I'm cool with a broad spectrum but my tastes are more in line with artists like Yu or Francavilla or Rivera, but I love work from Bertram and Pulido where they're clearly not trying to push technical skill in realism over their own personalized style.
Not railing against you or your tastes though, just my 2 cents on the matter.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Ugh, don't remind me.
GrandHarrier said:
Obviously I can't speak for anyone else, but when you're reading a book about a rich sociopathic fetishist who gets off on fighting crime, there's nothing wrong with characters looking larger than life. I do take umbrage to you comparing him to Liefeld though, he has zero working knowledge of human anatomy and how the body works and is connected together. Bertram clearly understands anatomy and makes a stylistic choice to exaggerate aspects of it to convey emotion and expression. Liefeld is just an incompetent hack who has stuck around for so long because he can churn out pages of crap and never miss a deadline.
I remember going to my first convention a few years back and had to cough up $4.00 for a 20 oz Gatordade. :/
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I never understood the Liefeld appeal even at his peak. I'd try a couple books and then see all the praise by Wizard and wonder if everyone were taking crazy pills. And then came the Liefeld clones. Wow
Pai Pai Master
Banned
it was a dark time for everyone involved
dude should never have been given the recognition and influence he had
Freezasaurus
Member
Freezasaurus
Member
Good man. I'd say that's easily one of the best things Morrison has ever written.
dunh dunh DUNH. :O
EDIT:
i wonder if the reboot with punisher will make him like... the funisher
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