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COMICS! |OT| November 2016. Wilde for comics, 2 Hickman books this month.

P

Phamit

Member
Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #4

This book drags on. This Issue wasn't bad, but it didn't really add anything exciting to the story. We got the third Origin story and not really a innovative one and the twist at the end wasn't exactly a shocker considering the plot.

And I prefer Claire Roe's Art over Roge Antonio. First issue that Antonio did alone and I didn't like it to be honest, the faces sometimes were a bit bland
 
T

Tyrant Rave

Banned
List:
Batman
Cave Carson
Squirrel Girl

And once I finish moving this week, gonna order some books. Eyeing some manga, the Moebius Library Edition, and the two Stormwatch books. Also want BPRD but I'm still in the middle of it so I'm gonna buy the remaining issues once I get there.
 
M

Messi

Member
VanWinkle said:
Yeah man. We can only hope.



Looking forward to reading this series in trade. I've heard it gets better after the first arc. Well, actually, I stopped after #3, so I'm ready to read past that.
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Gotham Girl is the focus of the first arc and I loved how it came to its conclusion. It's last issue is heartbreaking as an epilogue
 
L

LordOfLore

Banned
Ellis posted his newsletter. Here's the intro:
Hello from out here on the Thames Delta, where I am rigging for a winter that may last many years.
There's nothing to say, is there? Here in Britain, we had our alt-right moment earlier in the year, and it's still ugly. France probably has its one coming next year. There will be hard times to come for many people. Anything I say will be useless. I've been told so, in fact.
Also I believe Nate Silver was seen boarding a plane for Ecuador this morning.
I'm sure some of you tuned in today expecting a Spider Jerusalem-scale political rant. Some of you may even have been wincing in expectation of it. But I'm not Spider Jerusalem. He was my Id from twenty years ago. Going off here would be empty virtue-signalling from someone with no serious skin in this particular game. Whatever I say next, it'll be through the work.
And then Leonard Cohen died.
I'm getting tired of saying "next year will be better." Look to yourselves and the people around you and learn how to protect the most vulnerable. And listen.
(And then Robert Vaughn died.)
(This fucking year, right?)
Click to expand...

Digital and HickmanGAF will probably like this part:
I haven't actually picked up a book this week, and have been going to sleep listening to podcasts or streaming ambient music from soma.fm. This is very poor. I think I'm at 36 books for the year so far - I have a lot of plane travel coming up, but I don't expect to break 45 books for the year. I may not even break 40, as I have several very long books in the queue or partially read.
I have, however, recently bought:
Star.Ships: A Prehistory of the Spirits by Gordon White
Grand Hotel Abyss: The Lives of the Frankfurt School by Stuart Jeffries
Disparities by Slavoj Žižek
And Leigh Alexander just sent me her novella, which I'm greatly looking forward to.
I have a couple of fat science fiction yarns on pre-order that will flow to my Kindle while I'm on the road, however, and fat science fiction yarns always make good road reading. I think I read most of the Expanse books on planes.

People have, of late, asked me questions about comics. And the truth is, I normally only get to read at night, and the Kindle Paperwhite is a perfect device for that. (I will admit to coveting one of those fancy Japanese manga-optimised Kindles.) But, also, this: I have very few connections to comics or the comics industry any more. I don't read comics news or comics social media, I have maybe a scant handful of friends in the business, I don't go to conventions, I don't have time to get to comics stores and is it just me or is Comixology on the web really kind of slow a lot of the time? I'm not part of the conversation - I don't even hear the conversation, and haven't for years. The comics I've read that I've recommended to you have most often been sent to me directly by their creators. And I'm trying to screw a PDF of FRONTIER out of Jonathan Hickman even though I don't actually know the guy - we have enough mutual friends still that I can find out where he lives, you see.
(You see, I've been feeling the itch again to do a big piece of space-based fiction. Or had been. After reading an interview piece on Polygon about it, I realised that Hickman was taking a similar formal approach to the one I had in mind, and now I must read it so I can hate him properly.)
So, yeah. If my more recent comics read weirdly to you, now you know why: I have nothing to compare them to.
(There's a temptation to get a big Android tablet for comics reading.)
Click to expand...
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
Mmm. Not an entirely impressive statement from Ellis. I like his work, and appreciate his voice, when he hits big or misses big. It comes off bad in my eyes that he emphasises how non invested he is in the industry. I mean, whatever, at the end of the day I'll continue to judge him by his work and enjoy his good stuff anyway, but talking about how he doesn't even really read comics unless he's given them (and it's definitely that part that's a bad look to me, rather than his disengagement in the media grind or con circuit). I would say for every good book I read by him, there's one that could be improved, so I'm not sure he's taking the right road. I heard once that you're only as good a writer as you read other writing (definitely not the exact phrasing haha but you get the gist).
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
Donniewahlberg said:
Mmm. Not an entirely impressive statement from Ellis. I like his work, and appreciate his voice, when he hits big or misses big. It comes off bad in my eyes that he emphasises how non invested he is in the industry. I mean, whatever, at the end of the day I'll continue to judge him by his work and enjoy his good stuff anyway, but talking about how he doesn't even really read comics unless he's given them (and it's definitely that part that's a bad look to me, rather than his disengagement in the media grind or con circuit). I would say for every good book I read by him, there's one that could be improved, so I'm not sure he's taking the right road. I heard once that you're only as good a writer as you read other writing (definitely not the exact phrasing haha but you get the gist).
Click to expand...

I've encountered a surprising number of writers who don't read at all while they are working on something, especially a first draft. Including a creative writing teacher back in college. Always seemed like a pretty daft notion to me. I mean Stephen King reads at least a hundred books a year and he doesn't seem to have any problems with this.

I think reading is tremendously important to writing and my craft is always better when I'm both reading and writing tons of material. Yeah, those other voices and styles creep into early drafts but sometimes that's good, and finding/refining your voice is just part of revision.

I have read admissions from numerous comic professionals that they don't read too many comics themselves. Usually because they're too busy (which can generally be safely interpreted as, "it's low priority"). I remember Joey Q once saying he would sometimes pick one up off a stack but that's it. That was when he was in the big chair at Marvel, too.
 
O

OniBarubary

Banned
Honestly, as probably this board's biggest Ellis stan, I think his disinterest in comics and keeping up with them has probably strengthened his own comics. I find myself very uninterested/bored/rolling my eyes at the vast majority of the Big 2 and have only really been interested in Independent works for a long-ass fucking time now and genuinely feel that the further most comic writers could avoid or get away from the trappings of the industry, the better their works would be. As a result if that means a lot of writers stop reading comics and just write what they think are good stories then I can only really see that as an upside (if they are, in fact, good writers).
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
OniBarubary said:
Honestly, as probably this board's biggest Ellis stan, I think his disinterest in comics and keeping up with them has probably strengthened his own comics. I find myself very uninterested/bored/rolling my eyes at the vast majority of the Big 2 and have only really been interested in Independent works for a long-ass fucking time now and genuinely feel that the further most comic writers could avoid or get away from the trappings of the industry, the better their works would be. As a result if that means a lot of writers stop reading comics and just write what they think are good stories then I can only really see that as an upside (if they are, in fact, good writers).
Click to expand...

You can learn a LOT from things you don't like, though. More than you can learn from stuff you love, imho
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
Hagi said:
Only videogame tie in comics I've read that were actually good are the Witcher comics, everything else tripe.
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The Last of Us prequel comic was pretty good.

uDmJ29p.jpg
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
OniBarubary said:
Honestly, as probably this board's biggest Ellis stan, I think his disinterest in comics and keeping up with them has probably strengthened his own comics. I find myself very uninterested/bored/rolling my eyes at the vast majority of the Big 2 and have only really been interested in Independent works for a long-ass fucking time now and genuinely feel that the further most comic writers could avoid or get away from the trappings of the industry, the better their works would be. As a result if that means a lot of writers stop reading comics and just write what they think are good stories then I can only really see that as an upside (if they are, in fact, good writers).
Click to expand...

If you could convince me he was the perfect writer, then I might agree. You wont thought, since that writer doesn't exist (not even my beloved stephen king). I pretty much echo Echo's thoughts. I will never see how disinterest could define his talent, only how it might limit his possible improvement. To aim to master your craft, I think you need to engage in your craft. Again, I'm not sure how the banality of many of the big two's books strengthens his writing. Are we to say there are no books worth reading in the industry then that he might gain inspiration or insight from, both good and bad books? I don't know. It's a strange upside, but I appreciate that you see it as a good thing/that it somehow defines why his good books are good.
 
M

my name is ed

Banned
echoshifting said:
I've encountered a surprising number of writers who don't read at all while they are working on something, especially a first draft. Including a creative writing teacher back in college. Always seemed like a pretty daft notion to me. I mean Stephen King reads at least a hundred books a year and he doesn't seem to have any problems with this.

I think reading is tremendously important to writing and my craft is always better when I'm both reading and writing tons of material. Yeah, those other voices and styles creep into early drafts but sometimes that's good, and finding/refining your voice is just part of revision.

I have read admissions from numerous comic professionals that they don't read too many comics themselves. Usually because they're too busy (which can generally be safely interpreted as, "it's low priority"). I remember Joey Q once saying he would sometimes pick one up off a stack but that's it. That was when he was in the big chair at Marvel, too.
Click to expand...
Im pretty sure Tom Brevoort has read everything Marvel has ever published. Are we sure we... want more of that? haha
Donniewahlberg said:
Mmm. Not an entirely impressive statement from Ellis. I like his work, and appreciate his voice, when he hits big or misses big. It comes off bad in my eyes that he emphasises how non invested he is in the industry. I mean, whatever, at the end of the day I'll continue to judge him by his work and enjoy his good stuff anyway, but talking about how he doesn't even really read comics unless he's given them (and it's definitely that part that's a bad look to me, rather than his disengagement in the media grind or con circuit). I would say for every good book I read by him, there's one that could be improved, so I'm not sure he's taking the right road. I heard once that you're only as good a writer as you read other writing (definitely not the exact phrasing haha but you get the gist).
Click to expand...
I've found a difference between writers and artists in this way. past a certain level of development or point in their career, writers are mostly disinterested in what goes on outside of their work and the immediate work that affects their space. Artists, on the other hand, tend to be more aware of work outside their immediate space. It's anecdotal but something I've noticed.

It seems to me like artists tend to view each other more like peers than writers who may see each other as hmm project managers from a different division.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Hagi said:
Only videogame tie in comics I've read that were actually good are the Witcher comics, everything else tripe.
Click to expand...

The Archie Mega Man series is actually really good. Or was, since it seems to have sunk without trace. The two crossovers with Sonic were cool, especially the second one as it branched out to a whole Sega vs. Capcom crossover.

Can't get on with Archie Sonic for the most part though. Apart from the crossovers and the Sonic Mega Drive issues. Sonic the Comic forever.

I liked the Gears and WOW comics that DC put out years ago as well, and I have the Dishonored mini-series in my little pile right now.

Did anyone here pick up the Super Mario Adventures trade that came out recently? Worth it for someone who didn't read it growing up? The NES Mini has me fiending for some classic Nintendo stuff.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
my name is ed said:
Im pretty sure Tom Brevoort has read everything Marvel has ever published. Are we sure we... want more of that? haha

I've found a difference between writers and artists in this way. past a certain level of development or point in their career, writers are mostly disinterested in what goes on outside of their work and the immediate work that affects their space. Artists, on the other hand, tend to be more aware of work outside their immediate space. It's anecdotal but something I've noticed.

It seems to me like artists tend to view each other more like peers than writers who may see each other as hmm project managers from a different division.
Click to expand...



Hahah I was actually thinking about this, but wasn't sure if mentioning it would drag it further off topic. "Imagine an artist who doesn't look at any other art, unless it's put in front of him." Well, aside from the point about actual artists which would sound mad, if we take writers as artists, it's the same thing really.I don't know. What I won't do is pretend that Ellis isn't a good writer to suit my point, but like I said, I just think it's a bad look is all. It infers all sorts of things, none of which I could prove, or necessarily even say I think myself, but it's definitely a bit of a sour thing to hear imo. It's worth saying too that I don't raise an eyebrow about disengaging from the comic media, and so on, I totally get why someone might not want any part of that, or not follow it. Some of it is basically gossip, some basically just advertising in interviews clothes. It's the idea he doesn't read comic books unless they are put in form of him, straight from the creator, when there are so many of his peers at Image say, doing amazing thing. Not to read a certain writer's work, or to experience an artist's visual storytelling.

As for game adaptations, I'd give a big thumbs up to the witcher comics, especially the first volume, that was awesome. I liiiike the last of us prequel comic, I just found it very slight, but in a good way. I wanted more! I don't know if I've read much else though...
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
my name is ed said:
Im pretty sure Tom Brevoort has read everything Marvel has ever published. Are we sure we... want more of that? haha

I've found a difference between writers and artists in this way. past a certain level of development or point in their career, writers are mostly disinterested in what goes on outside of their work and the immediate work that affects their space. Artists, on the other hand, tend to be more aware of work outside their immediate space. It's anecdotal but something I've noticed.

It seems to me like artists tend to view each other more like peers than writers who may see each other as hmm project managers from a different division.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha, touché.

I agree with donnie though...I don't think it's that different for writers. Though there's no way to easily measure or observe the benefits.
 
O

OniBarubary

Banned
echoshifting said:
You can learn a LOT from things you don't like, though. More than you can learn from stuff you love, imho
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I...don't know if that's necessarily true. Most of art is based on variations and stealing from people's whose work one has respected/loved/admired. It's pretty much how the advancement of art generally happens. For larger phase shifts, such as realism leading to something like impressionism as a reaction against it, sure. But within it's own medium people looked at the things they liked and tried to mimic them or put their own touch on it or subvert them. I believe that a cinematographer could learn more or advance in his craft and produce a better work behind a camera by watching a Deakins or Chapman or (showing my own bias here) Maurice-Jones than whoever did Michael Bay's TMNT (*looks it up* Lula Carvalho? What else has he...oh...oh god). You learn about what not to do by watching the people you love...not do those things. Can it be limiting? Maybe. But I don't honestly believe that reading the last 10 issues of Avengers will help Warren Ellis become a better comic book writer in any way.

Donniewahlberg said:
If you could convince me he was the perfect writer, then I might agree. You wont thought, since that writer doesn't exist (not even my beloved stephen king). I pretty much echo Echo's thoughts. I will never see how disinterest could define his talent, only how it might limit his possible improvement. To aim to master your craft, I think you need to engage in your craft. Again, I'm not sure how the banality of many of the big two's books strengthens his writing. Are we to say there are no books worth reading in the industry then that he might gain inspiration or insight from, both good and bad books? I don't know. It's a strange upside, but I appreciate that you see it as a good thing/that it somehow defines why his good books are good.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, dude's not perfect. I'd say even his worst stuff is at least okay though, and his novels are legitimately bad. I think he does engage in his craft; writing. If you specifically mean comic book writing than he engages in that by doing it. While influence from other's in your craft is an enormous way to shape you, another way to do it is simply to do it and look at the results and then change based on what worked or didn't for you (even though in the case of a lot of writers the answer to that is "Not at all"). I get better at writing by...writing. And I'm saying that as a writer.

There are of course books worth reading in the current comic climate. I buy way more books than I really need too and love a large number that are currently coming out. And while reading many of them could influence, shape or otherwise enhance your ability to craft stories of your own (read above for my thoughts on looking at bad works) I do not see a person who eschews reading them and instead works on their own stuff as being a nonviable way to create good art.

I call Ellis' removal from the industry as a strength of his work because his work has a very strong presence and voice. He does not limit himself by thinking in terms of what creates a good comic book; looking at other comic books and going "Oh man, a lot of people really liked that" As a result he does not get tangled down in the trappings of the storytelling that comics do (which has delivered both good and bad comics working within those trappings). Take a look at his Moon Knight run which I dare you to compare to any other writers Marvel runs. The 2nd issues incredible paneling of it's narrative, textual composition and usage of white space in it's first 8 pages. The entire run I could go on and on for days about and almost all of it's strength comes from the fact that he is doing things that most of his contemporaries either do not do, avoid or don't even think to do because they are hamstrung by what came before them. The past of comics can be an unwitting albatross hanging around it's neck because far too many people don't want to deviate, change or experiment. Especially in the big 2 due to the ways in which they are corporately decided/controlled/whatever.

I'm definitely not saying that as a writer/artist/whatever it is impossible to expand by reading good (and maybe bad) and large amounts of the medium that you are a part of; in fact, that's how the vast majority of people will get better. I'm just saying that it can also limit you in your growth because of an adherence to what you've ingested. I don't think for every writer they'll become better in the same way that Ellis is and most will become better writers by reading good writers in comics. I'm just saying that for Ellis' specific case, his strength is pretty much being removed from comics.

That is of course ignoring that as a writer you can still draw your influence from storytelling of many different mediums; writing is prevalent in them all. I've had great written story ideas from a movie or a podcast telling spoopy stories or video game or even just a lady telling me about her day.

Kinda rambled on there for a bit. Maybe I'm just saying I appreciate his comics, and a lot of independent comics, because they aren't beholden to a lot of things the Big 2 are and as such they are more palatable to me. They tell the types of stories in the types of ways that I respect or enjoy.

Then again, I read East of West and that's a fucking mess so feel free to ignore me on that front =P
 
D

Durrzerker

Banned
hot damn today I learned Penn Gillette can't write for shit.

The latest issue of Spider-Man and Deadpool is AGGRESSIVELY terrible, Penn isn't funny in any way, shape, or form. Referencing the meta like 10 times in 20 pages isn't clever, dude. Jesus.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
Oni, I won't quote all that just because of the length of the text, but I read it all, I appreciate it all, I definitely understand and respect your opinion man. I think it's pretty obvious there are certain things colouring your opinion too. You are a writer, you think there are a lot of by the numbers marvel books that no-one should aspire too, but I don't think that necessarily has anything to do with the point, at least the point I was making in my own mind. Bringing up how you dare us to compare his moon knight run to any other marvel book, being hamstrung by the big two. This isn't something I'm advocating, nor do I think Ellis would be hamstrung by reading that stuff either. I'm talking about the legit amazing books coming out today, some of the amazing writing and art on display and the idea he can basically gain nothing by reading any of that. His work can only ever be the sum of himself, limited by himself, if he never turns his eye anywhere else. We are our experiences and your experience as a fiction writer will only grow by taking in other fiction, other stories, and of course larger than that. Actually going out, seeing things, learning things, living life, those stories. Purely in the bubble of yourself without the want to expand that bubble though, I just don't see how that is a good thing.

And again, hey, big Ellis fan, but I very much acknowledge his strengths and flaws (and yes, Gun Machine would be a flaw haha. Read more novels at very least Warren!). I appreciate we are on different wavelengths and that's cool. I do actually respect your reading taste as a man after my own heart when I read your posts, so I value your opinion, I just think totally different here, and it's really just an opinion, not an argument I'm making, so I can't take it much further than that. Glad this has opened up a talking point though, interesting to see other view points.

Also, just as a separate brief point: I do not read a lot of marvel, not much more DC, but I also don't want to be getting on board with the point there are no good books there or something. Fiction is something to everyone, and different to everyone, and there are plenty of books folks love under those publishers. Whether I think the best comics are elsewhere or not, I won't say that as if it is a fact.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Durrzerker said:
hot damn today I learned Penn Gillette can't write for shit.

The latest issue of Spider-Man and Deadpool is AGGRESSIVELY terrible, Penn isn't funny in any way, shape, or form. Referencing the meta like 10 times in 20 pages isn't clever, dude. Jesus.
Click to expand...

The last guest writer set such a high bar as well.

Never forget:
spider-mandeadpool-6-sees-deadpool-and-spider-man-attend-batman-v-superman----i-mean-nighthaw.jpeg

Image-851-e1467201386918-600x245.jpg
 
H

Hagi

Member
I don't really see it as petty, I mean they have Peter the reboot king Parker talking shit on the same page.

Good thing bringing up the Archie Mega man books I've been interested in grabbing those for a while. I haven't read the Last Of Us comic yet even though I bought it as soon as it came out.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
Niiiice. Finally finished Gears 4 on hardcore, been chugging away at that one for awhile. Fighting the swarmak wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it might be. I doubt I'll ever do insane, since I have no partner, but I enjoy that campaign a good bit, especially on hardcore.
 
B

BKatastrophe

Member
TetraxShards said:
The Archie Mega Man series is actually really good. Or was, since it seems to have sunk without trace. The two crossovers with Sonic were cool, especially the second one as it branched out to a whole Sega vs. Capcom crossover.

Can't get on with Archie Sonic for the most part though. Apart from the crossovers and the Sonic Mega Drive issues. Sonic the Comic forever.

I liked the Gears and WOW comics that DC put out years ago as well, and I have the Dishonored mini-series in my little pile right now.

Did anyone here pick up the Super Mario Adventures trade that came out recently? Worth it for someone who didn't read it growing up? The NES Mini has me fiending for some classic Nintendo stuff.
Click to expand...
I don't think the Archie books qualify as tie-ins so much as adaptions. I'm wondering if stuff like Buffy S8, Fray, the The Last Airbender books, and Edward Scissorhands count as tie-ins or just continuations and other stories
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
Oh wait I did read the first comic season of Buffy, the twilight one, but in really wasn't a big fan of that unfortunately. Inwouldntnmind having those characters still in my life too, but it did nothing fornme, and I have it like 10 volumes or whatever it was haha. It was really just the first one I liked in the end. Fray was cool though.
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
man remember how people were like "waaaah Casey is badly characterized, why isn't she reacting to a guy being blowed the heck up, she doesn't make sense, waaaah, I am stupid and dumb"

yeah

WHAT'S GOOD
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
"i may be a murderer and a gangster and a whole helluva lotta other things...but not on friday nights."

gotta respect the psycho murderer.

...wait what, SB 16 only releases in december? wtf
-
ah i c, he left yall hanging since may, then resumed in nov.
 
T

TheFlow

Banned
ElNarez said:
man remember how people were like "waaaah Casey is badly characterized, why isn't she reacting to a guy being blowed the heck up, she doesn't make sense, waaaah, I am stupid and dumb"

yeah

WHAT'S GOOD
Click to expand...
People were jumping to conclusions one issue in.
 
B

Boogiepop

Member
Durrzerker said:
hot damn today I learned Penn Gillette can't write for shit.

The latest issue of Spider-Man and Deadpool is AGGRESSIVELY terrible, Penn isn't funny in any way, shape, or form. Referencing the meta like 10 times in 20 pages isn't clever, dude. Jesus.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ugh. Note to self: wait to hear how future guest issues are received before picking them up. And next one's apparently a guest issue too?
 
T

TEJ

Member
What are some good superman stories released in the past 2-3 years? Single issues, arcs, I just need some modern superman that isn't zach snyder.
 
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