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COMICS! |OT| October 2016. Capes, Crime, Bondage, and sometimes Overwatch.

F

Freezasaurus

Member
Messi said:
Not surprised by your reaction though considering you did previously take the position that you could support a rapist abuser as long as his art was good.
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I still take that position because I separate the work from the man. I never said Upchurch wasn't a slimy piece of shit, just that outside events don't prevent me from buying books I want to read. I'm also reading Brian Wood's new book and loving it.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
Nice, just read a BPRD arc there with Julian Totino Tedesco on interiors. I've seen a ton of his covers, particularly remember his original sin covers being very nice, but I didn't realise he even did interiors. It was pretty good work. Would love to see what Jenny Frison could cook up doing interiors. Obviously it's hard to know how her storytelling would work out, but that's the first person I think of if I try and think of a cover artist I'd like to see try their hand.
 
R

Ross61

Member
Teen Titans #1 preview: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/exclusive-preview-teen-titans-1/1100-156143/

Gonna miss Jonboy Meyers art.
5494814-4+tt_1_4.jpg
 
M

Messi

Member
Freezasaurus said:
I still take that position because I separate the work from the man. I never said Upchurch wasn't a slimy piece of shit, just that outside events don't prevent me from buying books I want to read. I'm also reading Brian Wood's new book and loving it.
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I try not to separate the horrific act of rape from the rapist so I can enjoy their comic books. But that's just me.
 
K

KoruptData

Member
Freezasaurus said:
I still take that position because I separate the work from the man. I never said Upchurch wasn't a slimy piece of shit, just that outside events don't prevent me from buying books I want to read. I'm also reading Brian Wood's new book and loving it.
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I see what your saying. I would rather read a book about a serial killer written by a serial killer than by someone else from the outside looking in. Sometimes shitty people can offer us unique perspectives on the world we live in that are just as valuable and artistic as anything else. Take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
Messi said:
I try not to separate the horrific act of rape from the rapist so I can enjoy their comic books. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

Oh boy.

KoruptData said:
I see what your saying. I would rather read a book about a serial killer written by a serial killer than by someone else from the outside looking in. Sometimes shitty people can offer us unique perspectives on the world we live in that are just as valuable and artistic as anything else. Take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.
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Not exactly what I meant. Just that Roc Upchurch is a terrible person, but he arts pretty good. If he works on something that genuinely catches my interest, I won't let the fact that he worked on it dissuade me from checking it out.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Messi said:
I try not to separate the horrific act of rape from the rapist so I can enjoy their comic books. But that's just me.
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Hemingway was a notorious womanizer, HP Lovecraft was an outspoken racist - there is still value to be found in their works, though.
 
M

Messi

Member
KoruptData said:
I see what your saying. I would rather read a book about a serial killer written by a serial killer than by someone else from the outside looking in. Sometimes shitty people can offer us unique perspectives on the world we live in that are just as valuable and artistic as anything else. Take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.
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And what perspective was Roc Upchurch bringing to Rat Queens. A book about empowering women knowing what he was doing at home?
 
M

Messi

Member
BKatastrophe said:
Last I checked, Roc Upchurch was brought up on charges for domestic spousal and child abuse. Not rape. Possibly sexual harrassment.

I'm not saying it's better, but let's not be attaching something to someone when it isn't true. He's a scumbag, for sure, but he's not a rapist.
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His wife accused him of rape.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
Messi said:
And what perspective was Roc Upchurch bringing to Rat Queens. A book about empowering women knowing what he was doing at home?
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Not everything has to have a deeper meaning. Sometimes some asshole just draws nice art that I like and whatever shitty things he does in his personal life is on him. I'm not obligated to curb how I feel about his work because of what I think about him as a person.
 
M

Messi

Member
BKatastrophe said:
Did she? I'll look it up again
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Dear Atlanta News Outlets,

In light of the recent sexual assault that took place at Dragon Con I would like to share my story with you all. I have reached out to numerous sources in the comic community and they have failed to make my voice heard. My hope is that you all will really look into this story and not just write me off as a bitter black ex wife as many have. It's also important to note that I'm still legally married to the man who has brought my children and I a world of pain.

I am a survivor of assault and rape at the hands of my husband Roc Upchurch. He is a comic book illustrator who fell off the deep end into alcohol abuse, extra marital affairs, and physical assault...all because his comic book found success.

My three children, victims and witnesses of my husband's abuse, are paying a daily price. They are suffering. He has been gone from our lives going on four months now. No visits. No calls. Not a peep. But the scars of his behavior echo on.

As I write this my children's father is living with one of his female fans in Texas. And he's quickly insinuating himself back into the comic book community. He's been granted interviews in which he claims many untruths about our status. About his involvement with his children. He requests publicly to be allowed to interact with fans and the community once more. To what ends? If his past is any indication I fear for the innocent young women who will cross his path. Or even his fists.

If my children and I couldn't escape it, how can anyone else hope to?

While he lost his position on his first project, he still enjoys success from it. Making thousands of dollars in residuals which barely trickles down at all to his children. When it does it is pitiful.

Before my bruises had even had time to heal he had moved on from us. From his children. And been welcomed back to comics heartily. His voice was celebrated. While mine has remained in the dark.

As my seven year old daughter talks of wanting to leave here to go to heaven, and my son's confusion gives way to rage that poisons his heart, I am trying to guide us through this.

I can't be quiet anymore.

Dear CBR "journalist" Casey Gilly: You claim to be a feminist. And I've seen your written support of victims, in other articles, discussing your background in HR, and your desire to keep the comics community safe from abusers. Yet you failed in your job as a journalist to question Roc Upchurch about the Child Abuse Case brought against him by the State of Delaware. You ignored my public blog which described in detail his physical assaults, and his abuse of fans, and his lack of support/contact in regards to his children. Yet you published an article describing all the reasons why he deserves to be welcomed back. Fact checking is a thing. You should Google it. And CBR should be ashamed to have you contributing to their site. Do you have any idea how much damage you have done? To me? To my son who had to read your lies? To the innocent women who read your words and trusted you and now think Roc Upchurch is "healed"?

Dear Bleeding Cool: While you were one of the first sites to share my initial post about my husband assaulting me, you have now decided to repost the aforementioned CBR article, in support of his return to the comics community. While I still suffer from the recurring memories of him pinning me down on our bed and sexually assaulting me, telling me all the while it was for me and not for him, you have just helped to put countless women in harm's way. This man is unrepentant. And will harm again. How dare you.

Dear Image Comics: Thank you for rehiring my soon to be ex husband on a new project, after he did his best to wreck the ship that was the beautiful comic Rat Queens. He was notoriously late, due to his boozing and philandering. Never mind the fact that he blamed his chronic lateness and unprofessionalism on me and our children. Never mind the fact that his paychecks from his time on Rat Queens do nothing to support the children he abandoned. I'm sure he's a brand new man, and won't do exactly the same thing with this new project. Good luck with that. P.S. The success of Rat Queens gave him the ability to prey on innocent fan girls at every convention he attended. But I'm sure you've got some kind of policy in place to prevent that from happening again, right?

Dear Comics New Sites/Publishers/Creators and most of all Fans: Roc Upchurch is the monster that haunts our nightmares. Mine and my children's. And now he's yours too. You let him back in by the front door.
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Sounds like a stand-up guy.

Freezasaurus said:
Not everything has to have a deeper meaning. Sometimes some asshole just draws nice art that I like and whatever shitty things he does in his personal life is on him. I'm not obligated to curb how I feel about his work because of what I think about him as a person.
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That's fine. I'd rather not give my money to Roc knowing it could facilitate him doing what he does. You can choose to act like the art and the man are separated but I can not.
 
K

kmfdmpig

Member
Messi said:
That's fine. I'd rather not give my money to Roc knowing it could facilitate him doing what he does. You can choose to act like the art and the man are separated but I can not.
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That's, of course, a reasonable and fine position to take. It seems to me that it's going a bit overboard to dismiss the poster's opinions on other issues based on their different opinion, however.

Lots of people like Woody Allen movies, Roman Polanski movies, etc... Should all of them automatically have their opinions dismissed because they enjoy art created by people who have done very bad things?
 
K

KoruptData

Member
I am a survivor of assault and rape at the hands of my husband Roc Upchurch. He is a comic book illustrator who fell off the deep end into alcohol abuse, extra marital affairs, and physical assault...all because his comic book found success.
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Hahaha, because I bought Rat Queens, I helped make him into a monster. We all did. Isn't that what she is saying? He co-created something, that we enjoyed so much it brought him fame and money which in turn turned him into a terrible person.
 
M

Messi

Member
kmfdmpig said:
That's, of course, a reasonable and fine position to take. It seems to me that it's going a bit overboard to dismiss the poster's opinions on other issues based on their different opinion, however.

Lots of people like Woody Allen movies, Roman Polanski movies, etc... Should all of them automatically have their opinions dismissed because they enjoy art created by people who have done very bad things?
Click to expand...

It's as overboard as dismissing peoples problems with the cover as a social media shit fit.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
Everyone has to draw their own line with these guys. Roman Polanski, Hemingway, Roc Upchurch, whoever. You have to measure the value of their work against the harm they have caused with their actions. For me, I can't get past the harm caused by guys like Polanski or Woody Allen to a point where I can appreciate the merits of their work, even powerful work like The Pianist, which is probably the last Polanski film I will ever watch. With Hemingway, his voice on the horrors of war is too meaningful and significant to be ignored, at least for me. It's a personal choice and deep reflection is called for.

Upchurch does not hit that bar with his cool fantasy art. Not for me.
 
B

BKatastrophe

Member
Messi said:
Sure that was just my comment on him. Wasn't an implication on any of you. If you want to support him for right ahead.
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Never said I was going to support him either. Personally I don't know if I'd go back to Rat Queens after this last arc because I didn't enjoy the writing on it, in addition to also not enjoying Fowler's art. And since that's the only piece of media with Upchurch's name on it that I've ingested, I probably won't get anything else by him either.
KoruptData said:
Hahaha, because I bought Rat Queens, I helped make him into a monster. We all did. Isn't that what she is saying? He co-created something, that we enjoyed so much it brought him fame and money which in turn turned him into a terrible person.
Click to expand...
She is saying this happened after Rat Queens got popular, yes. He let it get to his head and became and alcoholic abusive rapist who up and just left his family to go be in a relationship with a female fan.
I don't think she's actually blaming the fans. Just people who aren't treating this with the attention it deserves.
 
M

Messi

Member
BKatastrophe said:
Never said I was going to support him either. Personally I don't know if I'd go back to Rat Queens after this last arc because I didn't enjoy the writing on it, in addition to also not enjoying Fowler's art. And since that's the only piece of media with Upchurch's name on it that I've ingested, I probably won't get anything else by him either.

She is saying this happened after Rat Queens got popular, yes. He let it get to his head and became and alcoholic abusive rapist who up and just left his family to go be in a relationship with a female fan.
I don't think she's actually blaming the fans. Just people who aren't treating this with the attention it deserves.
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Essentially this. I don't find the situation to be one bit funny tbh.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
echoshifting said:
Marvel, I can't get excited about these X books without the creative teams. Any word on when these are coming?
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I know haha what can you.do but make bad jokes and shrug. They could all be good...or not haha is there any sort of cons coming? Otherwise I guess they might be waiting for a specific thing to happen in death of x
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
I suppose the really bad option would be editorially they've decided on the books but havent actually locked the talent down yet

Or they are all just bunn, hopeless and lemire ha
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
Donniewahlberg said:
I suppose the really bad option would be editorially they've decided on the books but havent actually locked the talent down yet

Or they are all just bunn, hopeless and lemire ha
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Yeah those would both be terrible. I think it was Birdie who said recently (paraphrasing) that putting out a book just to have it out there and giving it to whoever is ready and willing is a pretty awful thing to do and I agree. Does no favors for the characters or the fans.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
echoshifting said:
Yeah those would both be terrible. I think it was Birdie who said recently (paraphrasing) that putting out a book just to have it out there and giving it to whoever is ready and willing is a pretty awful thing to do and other agree. Does no favors for the characters or the fans.
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Do you read Brubakers newsletter? He actually speaks a little about this and his time on uncanny this week

I totally agree on the point btw I think we'd be horrified to know how often that happens too
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
echoshifting said:
Yeah those would both be terrible. I think it was Birdie who said recently (paraphrasing) that putting out a book just to have it out there and giving it to whoever is ready and willing is a pretty awful thing to do and I agree. Does no favors for the characters or the fans.
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I don't think I said that but I agree with it.

But I also don't genuinely think that's how it's done. I think Marvel probably solicits pitches in a set "bucket" like "We're doing solo X-titles next year, who's got some dope takes?"
 
K

KoruptData

Member
BKatastrophe said:
Never said I was going to support him either. Personally I don't know if I'd go back to Rat Queens after this last arc because I didn't enjoy the writing on it, in addition to also not enjoying Fowler's art. And since that's the only piece of media with Upchurch's name on it that I've ingested, I probably won't get anything else by him either.

She is saying this happened after Rat Queens got popular, yes. He let it get to his head and became and alcoholic abusive rapist who up and just left his family to go be in a relationship with a female fan.
I don't think she's actually blaming the fans. Just people who aren't treating this with the attention it deserves.
Click to expand...

My point is then, in a world where money and fame can corrupt a "good?" person, that we probably consume products from many "bad" people that are creating yet it's only ethical if that person gets caught. So ignorance is bliss is what the world is saying. But I'm saying we should not embrace ignorance, we should embrace the good and the bad. They both exist before us and will exist long after us.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
I don't think I said that but I agree with it.

But I also don't genuinely think that's how it's done. I think Marvel probably solicits pitches in a set "bucket" like "We're doing solo X-titles next year, who's got some dope takes?"
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Sorry man didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Something about just tossing a book to Soule just to have it on the shelves? Anyway it stuck with me...and apparently transformed a bit ;) Fortunately not something you disagree with at least!

And yeah I would hope that the fact they are doing an Iceman book means someone had a really good idea for an Iceman book.
 
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