How does Zelda's shit weapon durability make loot interesting? The weapons have severely limited use so instead of wasting time exploring for more weapons with shit durability, why don't I just avoid fodder enemies and the poor combat system entirely?
It's Sticker Star all over again.
Have you ever played a souls game? Or Let It Die?How does Zelda's shit weapon durability make loot interesting? The weapons have severely limited use so instead of wasting time exploring for more weapons with shit durability, why don't I just avoid fodder enemies and the poor combat system entirely?
It's Sticker Star all over again.
Because it makes good weapons have value and the curve will force you to use them. Also not engaging enemies would make you lose out on quite a bit of loot like fire arrows or bomb arrows. Shame you didn't give much thought to this idea.
Have you ever played a souls game? Or Let It Die?
What good weapons? Everything they've shown so far has shit durability. What curve? I know I'm going to lose out on crappy loot (like fire arrows) if I avoid fodder enemies; I'm also not going to break the crappy weapons on them either.
It's seriously Sticker Star all over again. There's no point in engaging most enemies. Oh, I get a new sticker for those I wasted? Cool! I'm going to ignore these enemies entirely then because they're a waste of time.
There would be nothing wrong if it wasn't the ONLY thing they're showing, over and over again. They wont even confirm or deny the existance of dungeons.
How does Zelda's shit weapon durability make loot interesting? The weapons have severely limited use so instead of wasting time exploring for more weapons with shit durability, why don't I just avoid fodder enemies and the poor combat system entirely?
It's Sticker Star all over again.
Yep. Weapon durability and availability is just like Sticker Star's. And just like Sticker Star, there's no reason to engage in the game's bad combat system.
They did hint at dungeons back in 2015:
https://youtu.be/-dsSErFaKng?t=2m16s
Zelda is all about discovery. I hope they don't spoil too much. As far as I'm concerned, we already know way too much.
are u serious rn
Yea they do. And there are plenty of other reasons to explore in a Zelda game BOTW probably most of all has more valid reasons to explore than any other souls game, and why're you trying to imply that the enemies aren't fun to engage when we've seen a multitude of ways to engage the enemies on top of their interesting AI routines. The game looks like it has the best combat out of any Zelda game based on the amount of moves Link has from the start.Souls games don't have weapons with shit durability, you can fix the weapons in Souls games, there are other reasons to explore and the enemies are actually fun to engage.
Yep. Weapon durability and availability is just like Sticker Star's. And just like Sticker Star, there's no reason to engage in the game's bad combat system.
What good weapons? Everything they've shown so far has shit durability. What curve? I know I'm going to lose out on crappy loot (like fire arrows) if I avoid fodder enemies; I'm also not going to break the crappy weapons on them either.
It's seriously Sticker Star all over again. There's no point in engaging most enemies. Oh, I get a new sticker for those I wasted? Cool! I'm going to ignore these enemies entirely then because they're a waste of time.
Have you ever played a souls game? Or Let It Die?
Neither do the weapons in Zelda. I'd much rather have weapons that can be broken than sit through a loading screen to go back to the hub to repair my weapons.I played Bloodborne and I NEVER lost a weapon because you can repair them and they don't break every 10 minutes.
Franz Brötchen;226757877 said:It would be all too easy to just ignore shit posts like this, but I've come to realize that there aren't prominent cases where irreversible weapon durability isn't thought of as shit. Monster Hunter, Souls games don't count because of the repair system that in my view mainly acts as balancing method to otherwise overpowered weapons.
Franz Brötchen;226757877 said:But I am extremely optimistic that the world will be built around the fact that weapons degrade/become just underpowered for the task ahead and therefore, weapons will just drop accordingly.
Franz Brötchen;226757877 said:Any Dark Souls player will remember the amount of never-used but still looted weapons they pick up but never use because of either the skill points don't suffice or they are just plain worse before time consuming upgrading. I always kind of hated those wasted opportunities, and precisely because of both weapon deterioration AND frequent drops this should be rectified.
I played Bloodborne and I NEVER lost a weapon because you can repair them and they don't break every 10 minutes.
Neither do the weapons in Zelda. I'd much rather have weapons that can be broken than sit through a loading screen to go back to the hub to repair my weapons.
Which is why the mechanic in bloodborne is terrible and pointless like most of the souls games? Why include a mechanic that has no impact on the gameplay? Repairing weapons is awful and should be removed from every game with durability or have durability stripped out if they can't support that.
It might be pointless, but I'd rather it be pointless than lose a weapon I really like using and having to resort to using whatever trash I have picked up along the way.
Ok, I'll humor you. Fire Arrows expand your creative options in many ways, which make them valuable. There's also soldiers broadswords, fire rods, good shields, bomb arrows which are vital for guardian fights, rubies, sapphires and opals which are probably the main crafting materials and are valuable for selling. You can choose to ignore combat but it's eventually going to be forced and you'll likely hit a damage wall, which is a key difference in the mechanics from Sticker Star, the weapons have stats.
Why is the combat system bad again?
And that comparison does absolutely make no sense. The circumstances and how the game is designed around the weapon durability is completely different.
Because it's the early game, stop being disengenous, it's absolutely a no brainer that mid-late game equipment won't break anywhere near as fast. Especially since there's crafting in the game as well.From the footage I have seen the weapons don't last long. Having to switch weapons because your equipment broke seems to be a core mechanic.
Master sword was in the latest trailer.I'm sure there's a way to get the Master Sword in BOTW.
Don't see weapon durability being an issue then.
People defend the bloodvial system as good game design so yea wouldn't be surprised to see "Yes I like mindnumbing busywork that could easily not be an issue" be raised as a positive.So you're saying you don't mind mechanics that has no nuance and add mindless busywork? Please put some thought into what you're saying.
So you're saying you don't mind mechanics that has no nuance and add mindless busywork? Please put some thought into what you're saying.
The durability system in botw is really interesting. We actually have to engage with it. And you'll never be without a weapon to fight with since everything in the game is a weapon on top of all the weapons you can acquire via enemies. It's gonna be interesting to see how they balance it.
They're obviously trying something different than the standard durability system, so try to open your mind and think about why things might be that way, instead of just complaining about it because you're not used to it.
I rarely had to repair weapons so it never got to the point where it felt like busywork. I've thought about it. The weapons system in Zelda BOTW sucks to me and will probably be divisive overall. I can't remember any one saying "oh man I hate having to repair my weapons in Bloodborne/Souls because it is such a waste of time." It is a non-issue in those games.
You haven't even played the fucking game we're talking about and keep projecting shit like "the combat is bad and there's no reason to engage with enemies," (when so far there is a shit ton of valid reasons seen in game like crafting items being dropped and ofc more loot, because you played a game that you think is similar, which would be hilarious if it wasn't so grating.I'm not complaining because it's something I'm not used to, I'm criticizing it because it's something I am used to: Sticker Star. There's no point in engaging enemies in that game. None. And so far, there's no reason to engage with fodder enemies in Zelda.
Because it's the early game, stop being disengenous, it's absolutely a no brainer that mid-late game equipment won't break anywhere near as fast. Especially since there's crafting in the game as well.
Master sword was in the latest trailer.
People defend the bloodvial system as good game design so yea wouldn't be surprised to see "Yes I like mindnumbing busywork that could easily not be an issue" be raised as a positive.
You haven't even played the fucking game we're talking about and keep projecting shit like "the combat is bad and there's no reason to engage with enemies," (when so far there is a shit ton of valid reasons seen in game like crafting items being dropped and ofc more loot, because you played a game that you think is similar, which would be hilarious if it wasn't so grating.
Weapon durability should be purged from any RPG.
Combat in Zelda has no weight (including enemy attacks -- compare that to say, Artorias), enemies lack any real threat with boring movesets (again, think of Artorias), some Zeldas have had automated attacks (e.g. the parry in Wind Waker), etc.
Uh huh.
Why should I expect something different later? If later weapons will actually last what is the point of a having so much disposable junk in the early game?
Because it's the early game, progression, how does it work? It's almost like if enemies get stronger, then their weapons that we can steal will too? Seems like it's too complicated for you to figure that out? Fuck it, stay away from Let It Die dude. Don't want you shitting up the OT with "what's the point of fodder in an RPG?"How am I being disingenuous? I'm going by what they have shown me. Why should I expect something different later? If later weapons will actually last what is the point of a having so much disposable junk in the early game?
Exactly, which is why one would wonder why you're trying to create a narrative that it's objectively bad. You're entire argument is based off of the incredibly stupid assumption that low weapon durability will be a constant and that weapons won't get stronger overtime as you progress culminating in the master sword.You'd think that decades of Zelda entries and hours of footage of the newest would give gamers enough of an idea of how the combat system is going to be.
There will likely be exceptions, but BOTW so far is set up so you can reach a goal in multiple angles. I don't consider that a bad thing.I'm not complaining because it's something I'm not used to, I'm criticizing it because it's something I am used to: Sticker Star. There's no point in engaging enemies in that game. None. And so far, there's no reason to engage with fodder enemies in Zelda.
Because it makes good weapons have value and the curve will force you to use them. Also not engaging enemies would make you lose out on quite a bit of loot like fire arrows or bomb arrows. Shame you didn't give much thought to this idea.
How does the combat in the Breath of the Wild have no weight when it has clearly shown the opposite? Where do enemies have boring movesets when we've seen the complete opposite in the demo shown at TGA?
What does Breath of the Wild have to do with Wind Waker?
Zelda has never had good combat or engaging enemy encounters. Like that's going to change now.
Uh huh.
EDIT:Oh wait it's a ps4 exclusive so i'm sure you'll praise it to high heavens based on that fact alone.
Exactly, which is why one would wonder why you're trying to create a narrative that it's objectively bad. .
You're entire argument is based off of the incredibly stupid assumption that low weapon durability will be a constant and that weapons won't get stronger overtime as you progress culminating in the master sword.
Calls my post shit and then concludes that no one considers irreversible weapon durability as anything other than shit.
Some people man.
Let's say that there's some progression in the game where weapons in one level of progression are not useful in the succeeding level.
Then still, what's the point of the fodder enemies in each level? Why explore the whole game world for more crappy weapons that aren't even going to be useful in the next level of progression?
Then still, what's the use in engaging fodder enemies for weapons with shit durability? There's no point.
How am I being disingenuous? I'm going by what they have shown me. Why should I expect something different later? If later weapons will actually last what is the point of a having so much disposable junk in the early game?
Franz Brötchen;226759787 said:Get a dictionary, since this is clearly not what I wrote.
I've come to realize that there aren't prominent cases where irreversible weapon durability isn't thought of as shit.
Franz Brötchen;226759787 said:Or worse, even: What if right in the middle of the game I am just offered nothing but a text box insulting my family, what good have the previous 10h of playtime been???
Franz Brötchen;226759787 said:Additionaly to the dictionary, go play a game that makes you happy instead of bothering us with strawman hypotheticals that only aim to talk shit (metaphorically, if you need this clarification)
Franz Brötchen;226759787 said:Dude, maybe the weapon dropped is better than the one I fought the enemy with? Just as uhhhh, typically ALWAYS in action RPGs?
Weight doesn't just refer to delayed reactions for heavier items. It's also the impact of the attacks. Which is hard to convey in words. Getting tossed about doesn't mean the attacks have weight either.
I haven't seen any enemies with interesting movesets. I definitely haven't seen anything on the level of Souls' boss designs.
It has to do with what you replied to:
Yeah, different vague circumstances changes everything.
Weapon durability can be a fun mechanic if implemented properly like in Let It Die where it adds tension and strategy to your runs but it's much easier to fuck it up than to make it work, which may be part of the reason why people are generally averse to it and prefer it done away with altogether. An example of it being done a bit poorly is the Nioh alpha, which is why they just decided to scrap it entirely. How well it works in Zelda remains to be seen, but we shouldn't trash it before trying it.
As for the "Soulsborne" games, weapon durability is really a non-issue. The mechanic may as well have been scrapped. In Bloodborne, the Tonitrus actually showed a good example of durability being done right ... until it was patched and made more durable for some reason. This made it OP.
Good luck with that. The same thought process was implemented in Nioh and it was so hated that the developers took durability out of the game altogether. The idea is not as glamorous as you think.