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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

FZZ

Banned
Genesis 3 is fucking madness. I WANT Mango vs. Armada GF.

But I feel like it's going to be Leffen instead.

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Indeed! Super special thanks to DICKS AHOY for the new, super stylish banners!

Maybe I'll clean up some other stuff too

eventually

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OP is still gucci but you should update it with the new 2015 info (CEO, Evo, Smashcon)

Mang0 ain't no longer the greatest to play the game son. Him and Armada are co-GOATs.
 
Genesis3... oh lawd.

If there was any tournament for the community to get Mango/Armada GF one more time, it's this one. Forget the money, forget the idea of being the 'GOAT' or 'BOAT' - this time it's just pride. I hope Armada's been working on the Fox Ditto and bops Leffen [like he was bopping him over and over again earlier in the year]
 

emb

Member
The Genesis 3 news is exciting. The day I went to my first tournament, was the day Genesis was happening I'm pretty sure.

And hey, maybe with that we can get rid of Apex. Gen 3 is in the winter, Smashcon is in the northeast.
oh yeah, this happened.


really cool news. I remember genesis 2 having no stream. I had to follow it via text updates on smashboards. twitter was barely a thing back then, if I recall correctly.

then, somehow, they got a stream going, and taj went absolutely insane and almost beat mango with his marth. good times.
Didn't he actually beat Mango with his Marth? Then just got torn up in loser's. At least that's how I remember it.

It's weird to think how rare streams were back when I started playing. I remember Pound 4 having a jank 'VGBootCamp' site running the stream, and I was just like, what is this.

And I'll always fondly remember Prog giving the in-chat play by play for RoM 3. No stream, just 700 people (or so) following the chat. PP lost to KK and I went to bed, totally forgot about a loser's bracket. Grand finals ended up being pretty great.
 

Grokbu

Member
Yay! Found out that there's a local Smash scene not too far away from me, so it looks like I'm gonna start playing Melee competitively! I am really happy since Melee is probably my favourite game! :)

I'm most probably gonna start with Falco, since he seems the most fun to me. I just hope people won't think that I believe that I'm gonna do good just because I pick one of the best characters when I myself am bad at the game.

I have a question about his shine -> dair combos though. If I shine someone and then dair them, if they touch the ground before I hit them again, will they be able to tech the dair?
 

emb

Member
Never understood why Apex was during winter, weather is shit.

Anyway, I wonder which games Genesis 3 will have.
Yeah, I don't know why that was either. Should always have had the summer national on the East cost, winter national on the west. But Evo is the biggest, and I could see why they would take the summer time when more people are free. And I can see why Apex these days would have stayed distanced from that. But Apex was already winter in 2012 and 13, so no Johns.

As for games: https://twitter.com/tafokints/status/631312643148484608

Melee and 4 confirmed. Hopefully nothing else, or only those and 64/PM/Brawl.
 

Anth0ny

Member
I just went back to check and ended up reading the whole OP again. You really knocked it out of the park with that one. Fantastic stuff.

Thanks! :)

Genesis 3 is fucking madness. I WANT Mango vs. Armada GF.

But I feel like it's going to be Leffen instead.



OP is still gucci but you should update it with the new 2015 info (CEO, Evo, Smashcon)

Mang0 ain't no longer the greatest to play the game son. Him and Armada are co-GOATs.

nooooooooope

Mango is still the GOAT. Armada is just giving him a run for his money right now ;)

The Genesis 3 news is exciting. The day I went to my first tournament, was the day Genesis was happening I'm pretty sure.

And hey, maybe with that we can get rid of Apex. Gen 3 is in the winter, Smashcon is in the northeast.

I remember I was at a Brawl tournament while Genesis was going on. Someone had a laptop and was showing everyone vids from Genesis that were being uploaded to youtube during the tournament. Shit was hype as fuck. That was the beginning of the end for my time with Brawl. Melee was winning me over D=

Didn't he actually beat Mango with his Marth? Then just got torn up in loser's. At least that's how I remember it.

It's weird to think how rare streams were back when I started playing. I remember Pound 4 having a jank 'VGBootCamp' site running the stream, and I was just like, what is this.

And I'll always fondly remember Prog giving the in-chat play by play for RoM 3. No stream, just 700 people (or so) following the chat. PP lost to KK and I went to bed, totally forgot about a loser's bracket. Grand finals ended up being pretty great.

Yeah, maybe he did beat him. I remember it being super hype, but I was also watching some choppy ass stream and barely remember the details.

I remember the earliest streams being from HMW. 75-100 viewers on a shitty ustream/justin.tv watching Silent Spectre go OFF and Mango easily taking the tournament (and the $45 prize pot) with his "joke characters": Fox and Falco.

Yay! Found out that there's a local Smash scene not too far away from me, so it looks like I'm gonna start playing Melee competitively! I am really happy since Melee is probably my favourite game! :)

I'm most probably gonna start with Falco, since he seems the most fun to me. I just hope people won't think that I believe that I'm gonna do good just because I pick one of the best characters when I myself am bad at the game.

I have a question about his shine -> dair combos though. If I shine someone and then dair them, if they touch the ground before I hit them again, will they be able to tech the dair?

Cool! Good luck. Falco is tough to play at first, I know from experience. Get those short hops down.

And yes, they can tech the dair, but you can read/predict the tech and punish with another dair, usually.
 
Yay! Found out that there's a local Smash scene not too far away from me, so it looks like I'm gonna start playing Melee competitively! I am really happy since Melee is probably my favourite game! :)

I'm most probably gonna start with Falco, since he seems the most fun to me. I just hope people won't think that I believe that I'm gonna do good just because I pick one of the best characters when I myself am bad at the game.

I have a question about his shine -> dair combos though. If I shine someone and then dair them, if they touch the ground before I hit them again, will they be able to tech the dair?

Don't worry about the tier list, per se. I mean sure you're gonna get weird looks if you want to take Pichu all the way to top 8 because the tools are just not as good as say, Marth, Peach, Falcon, or the Spacies. But no one should get mad at you for playing a certain character.

You've got plenty of options out of a shine -> dair. If they fall too fast and roll you can follow up with another dair like Anth0ny said. Or you can fsmash. Or dsmash. Or wavedash and grab. Or wavedsash and shine.

Also holy entrant numbers for Paragon! Getting beyond hype now. There's at least 8 of us from town going, although 2 of them are people who don't go to the biweeklies so that'll be interesting.

I finally beat one of my rivals last night too. Granted it was in netplay but the ping was low enough that I'll take it. Now if I can just manage the Zelda matchup in PM as Ganon / Bowser I'll be golden. Zelda, Lucas, Falcon, and Falco are my worst nightmares in PM.
 

Grokbu

Member
Cool! Good luck. Falco is tough to play at first, I know from experience. Get those short hops down.

And yes, they can tech the dair, but you can read/predict the tech and punish with another dair, usually.

Thanks and thanks! I was considering going with someone else at first, since my tech skill isn't too good and that might be a bit problematic for Falco (according to my own, perhaps faulty, observations). But I think that after having spent months playing another character, I would probably personally regret it if I hadn't spent those months playing the character I actually wanted to.

Thanks for the help regarding the dair by the way.

Edit:
Don't worry about the tier list, per se. I mean sure you're gonna get weird looks if you want to take Pichu all the way to top 8 because the tools are just not as good as say, Marth, Peach, Falcon, or the Spacies. But no one should get mad at you for playing a certain character.

You've got plenty of options out of a shine -> dair. If they fall too fast and roll you can follow up with another dair like Anth0ny said. Or you can fsmash. Or dsmash. Or wavedash and grab. Or wavedsash and shine.
I guess I shouldn't really feel too concerned about the tier lists. Thanks.

And regarding the tech chase after dair. So at certain percents, I assume that I could go into shine -> dair again, right? Man, I'm really looking forward to playing other people. :)
 
i think the lightweights stop being susceptible to shine>dair at around 30-40, midweights around 50-60 and heavies/fastfallers around 70 or so. also di has a pretty huge influence on how you chase so you might want to get used to doing a waveshined jump to better influence your momentum if you get it off.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Falco is a fun character, I don't main him but I like tinkering with him. If my brother didn't play him I'd have probably picked him up instead of Sheik.
 

Grokbu

Member
i think the lightweights stop being susceptible to shine>dair at around 30-40, midweights around 50-60 and heavies/fastfallers around 70 or so. also di has a pretty huge influence on how you chase so you might want to get used to doing a waveshined jump to better influence your momentum if you get it off.
Ah, alright. Thanks for the information. Should I generally waveshine directly down, or is it possible for my opponent to DI in such a way that I have to waveshine towards them to be able to hit them as a true combo?

Falco is a fun character, I don't main him but I like tinkering with him. If my brother didn't play him I'd have probably picked him up instead of Sheik.
Yeah, I find him really fun. From what I've observed, he gets so many fun things he can do from his shine, and his lasers are cool partly in that they inflict hitstun.

Edit: Sorry if I'm asking too many questions guys. I have a question regarding training mode. I am training shine -> dair -> shine right now. Is it possible for the combo counter to show 3 if the dummy has been slammed into the ground (so that they could tech)? I am trying to figure out if what I am doing is a true combo or not, and since I am unsure if the dummy slams the ground and could tech it, I was wondering if I could use the combo counter as an indicator? (I realize that I should keep possible DI from my opponent in mind, I'm just trying out timings and how long they stay in hitstun)
 
Ah, alright. Thanks for the information. Should I generally waveshine directly down, or is it possible for my opponent to DI in such a way that I have to waveshine towards them to be able to hit them as a true combo?


Yeah, I find him really fun. From what I've observed, he gets so many fun things he can do from his shine, and his lasers are cool partly in that they inflict hitstun.

It can vary, actually. DI is a wonderful thing in that it lets you escape a lot of shenanigans. For the most part you'd waveshine straight down, but if someone techs or uses DI to float away a bit you can use the waveshine to move yourself towards them.

You kind of end up getting a feel for it after a while.

I honestly prefer Falco to Fox. I love his laser pressure, especially with a short hop to cancel the landing lag.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Ah, alright. Thanks for the information. Should I generally waveshine directly down, or is it possible for my opponent to DI in such a way that I have to waveshine towards them to be able to hit them as a true combo?


Yeah, I find him really fun. From what I've observed, he gets so many fun things he can do from his shine, and his lasers are cool partly in that they inflict hitstun.

Edit: Sorry if I'm asking too many questions guys. I have a question regarding training mode. I am training shine -> dair -> shine right now. Is it possible for the combo counter to show 3 if the dummy has been slammed into the ground (so that they could tech)? I am trying to figure out if what I am doing is a true combo or not, and since I am unsure if the dummy slams the ground and could tech it, I was wondering if I could use the combo counter as an indicator? (I realize that I should keep possible DI from my opponent in mind, I'm just trying out timings and how long they stay in hitstun)

I think the combo counter just uses hitstun to determine what "combos," not factoring in the possibility of DI, teching, etc. Not 100% sure though, I don't use training mode. I'd just operate under the assumption that any time the opponent hits the ground, they can tech and end the combo.

And I don't think anybody will complain about people asking questions.
 
230/107 for Melee, 195/94 for Smash 4, 200/119 for Project M at Paragon, I wonder what it will end up at when registration is over

(A/B is singles/doubles entrants respectively, remember that in the end the number of teams is half the number of players that entered doubles)
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Funny that there are more individual people entering PM doubles than PM singles.

And wow, Drugged Fox moved way up. Jumped 59 spots.
 
God I just want to make it out of pools at a major. I doubt that'll happen in Melee, but I'm pretty sure I can do it in PM. Over the years I've enjoyed Melee less and PM more for some reason. It's like trying to explain the feel of 3rd Strike vs 2 Turbo. Some people like one more than the other, but both are great games.
 

emb

Member
119>200 confirmed!

come on man, I said that was # of players not teams :p
That makes more sense in terms of count, but...
(A/B is singles/doubles entrants respectively, remember that in the end the number of teams is half the number of players that entered doubles)
That sentence doesn't really clarify. Depends on me knowing what you mean by 'entrant' with regards to doubles. Could mean a person or team. When I saw this post before, I thought that was there to say that the number you posted for doubles should actually be... doubled to get the player count.
 
That makes more sense in terms of count, but...

That sentence doesn't really clarify. Depends on me knowing what you mean by 'entrant' with regards to doubles. Could mean a person or team. When I saw this post before, I thought that was there to say that the number you posted for doubles should actually be... doubled to get the player count.

Well, every tournament that displays registration numbers while it's still ongoing (as opposed to after registration ends) displays player count for doubles, as opposed to teams count, as you'll have plenty of unpaired players.

...besides, has there ever been a single major tournament with more players entering doubles than singles :p

(also, "number of teams is half the number of players that entered doubles" [maybe I should have said "half the number of doubles entrants"])
 

emb

Member
Well, every tournament that displays registration numbers while it's still ongoing (as opposed to after registration ends) displays player count for doubles, as opposed to teams count, as you'll have plenty of unpaired players.

...besides, has there ever been a single major tournament with more players entering doubles than singles :p

(also, "number of teams is half the number of players that entered doubles" [maybe I should have said "half the number of doubles entrants"])
Fair points on both counts. Regardless, no big deal. I'm just nitpicking anyhow. :p

Speaking of doubles, how does this thread feel about that? I know a lot of people that swear by teams play, and prefer it to singles by a good margin. I'm not that way at all, but it does seem unfortunate for 2v2 to get pushed out of the spotlight so often. Then again, it's harder to play, spectate, and commentate; kinda makes sense that it's less popular.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I like watching good teams. Mediocre or bad teams aren't enjoyable to watch at all.

At least with 1v1 "bad" sets/round 1 pool type stuff can still be enjoyable. I don't feel that way about teams at all.
 
I like watching good teams. Mediocre or bad teams aren't enjoyable to watch at all.

At least with 1v1 "bad" sets/round 1 pool type stuff can still be enjoyable. I don't feel that way about teams at all.

Paragon's Doubles events will be absolute chaos.

On the event FB page everyone was looking for teammates last week. They didn't care who or what characters they teamed up with.

Luckily my brother and I are solid at teams and we avoid the trap of "double X" characters for our matches. If we make it far in Doubles it'll cover the cost of the trip, pretty much.

*Edit* Will be on Smashladder for the next hour / hour and a half or so. LucidMomentum on there too. Playing Bowser / Ganon in PM.
 

Pappasman

Member
Its pretty interesting to see the tendencies of players when you "mentally break" them. I just watched a marth resort to dashdance random forward smash for a whole game becuase of that.

Yeah, I find him really fun. From what I've observed, he gets so many fun things he can do from his shine, and his lasers are cool partly in that they inflict hitstun.

I think you should really focus on controlling movement, spacing, and accuracy with your lasers. It's vitally important and changes some matchups complelty. His lasers are his best tool imo.

I was playing with someone yesterday who got so salty because I had complete control over every match.

"“If falco didn’t have lasers i would have won 99% of those matches”

The ultimate john. I was laughing my ass off.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Its pretty interesting to see the tendencies of players when you "mentally break" them. I just watched a marth resort to dashdance random forward smash for a whole game becuase of that.

This is me roughly 10 seconds into a game. Without playing against people it is impossible to improve that though. I really wish weeklies would start up here during the afternoon one day. I feel like I could improve so much by playing against different people on a regular basis.
 

Grokbu

Member
I think you should really focus on controlling movement, spacing, and accuracy with your lasers. It's vitally important and changes some matchups complelty. His lasers are his best tool imo.
Thanks for reminding me. I haven't been very well-rounded during my practice, and have mostly trained shine tech. I really should focus on general movement and other attacks and everything else in general as well. However something I haven't been thinking too much of is training lasers. Learning how to time button presses to cover certain areas isn't as easy as I'd think, and is something, I assume, is important to get into my memory. And also when to shoot and how.

One thing I'm wondering about short hop lasers. Does something like SH laser -> FTilt/DSmash/FSmash combo? I haven't been able to land anything other than jab (and maybe shine), I believe. While that could just be bad tech skill on my part, Is it possible that if you SH laser with forward momentum, you can sort of "follow" the laser and be able to follow up with attacks with longer startup than jab, like the ones I meantioned?
 

emb

Member
Thanks for reminding me. I haven't been very well-rounded during my practice, and have mostly trained shine tech. I really should focus on general movement and other attacks and everything else in general as well. However something I haven't been thinking too much of is training lasers. Learning how to time button presses to cover certain areas isn't as easy as I'd think, and is something, I assume, is important to get into my memory. And also when to shoot and how.

One thing I'm wondering about short hop lasers. Does something like SH laser -> FTilt/DSmash/FSmash combo? I haven't been able to land anything other than jab (and maybe shine), I believe. While that could just be bad tech skill on my part, Is it possible that if you SH laser with forward momentum, you can sort of "follow" the laser and be able to follow up with attacks with longer startup than jab, like the ones I meantioned?
For laser heights, I like the idea of practicing like this:
Mogwai said:
Plug in one extra controller while holding up (so that the stick being at neutral will be like holding down) and two other extra controllers with no stick tricks. Select Kirby or Jigglypuff for the controller that is holding down, and Mario (or any other medium height character) and Ganon (or any other tall character) for the other 2 controllers. Go to FD and position the 3 dummy characters on one side of you ordered from shortest to tallest (crouching Kirby, then Mario, then Ganon). Practice alternating which of them you are trying to hit until you are comfortable with your ability to hit any of them on command.
(Source: this guide.)

You have some good ideas about SHL followups. Most things don't combo, yeah, but it's not about true combos. It's about putting your opponent in a bad spot. The laser only puts them in a few frames of lag, so most of the time they'll be able to shield or throw out a move (especially if you aren't in just the right position. Be really weary of players that are keen enough to move and mess up your laser positioning.) But yeah, you do want to follow the laser. Even if the next move doesn't land, it often puts you in a position to be aggressive and keep going after them.

Most common follow ups are laser to jab, laser shine, and laser grab imo. Or laser dash dance (wait for them to roll or otherwise hang themselves). Grab beats them shielding the laser (or after). Jab and shine are just fast moves that will usually win out even if they start to do something. In shine's case, you get great followups. Even a mixup opportunity if they shield it. But laggier moves definitely work after laser. At that point it's mostly about positioning, and what you think they'll do after the laser. If you think they'll let go of shield after the laser hits, fsmash is great. If you think they'll jump out of shield, maybe up tilt or something. Etc etc.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I'm pretty sure SH laser can true combo into a lot of things but it depends on the laser timing and spacing, and it's not safe because you are in a bad position if you don't hit the laser or get the timing wrong. The slower/laggier the move, the tighter the timing. You want to be landing right in front of the opponent right as they are getting hit with the laser so you can follow up while they are still in hitstun.
 

Grokbu

Member
For laser heights, I like the idea of practicing like this:

(Source: this guide.)
Ah, nice! That sounds like a nice practice plan! I only have three controllers, so I don't think I would be able to follow this exactly, but having two characters to practice on and then alternating between different heights would work too, I guess.

You have some good ideas about SHL followups. Most things don't combo, yeah, but it's not about true combos. It's about putting your opponent in a bad spot. The laser only puts them in a few frames of lag, so most of the time they'll be able to shield or throw out a move (especially if you aren't in just the right position. Be really weary of players that are keen enough to move and mess up your laser positioning.) But yeah, you do want to follow the laser. Even if the next move doesn't land, it often puts you in a position to be aggressive and keep going after them.

Most common follow ups are laser to jab, laser shine, and laser grab imo. Or laser dash dance (wait for them to roll or otherwise hang themselves). Grab beats them shielding the laser (or after). Jab and shine are just fast moves that will usually win out even if they start to do something. In shine's case, you get great followups. Even a mixup opportunity if they shield it. But laggier moves definitely work after laser. At that point it's mostly about positioning, and what you think they'll do after the laser. If you think they'll let go of shield after the laser hits, fsmash is great. If you think they'll jump out of shield, maybe up tilt or something. Etc etc.

I'm pretty sure SH laser can true combo into a lot of things but it depends on the laser timing and spacing, and it's not safe because you are in a bad position if you don't hit the laser or get the timing wrong. The slower/laggier the move, the tighter the timing. You want to be landing right in front of the opponent right as they are getting hit with the laser so you can follow up while they are still in hitstun.

Thanks a lot, guys! This is super helpful.

Sorry, I should've probably mentioned this earlier, but I had seen a video where a Falco would down throw the opponent and tech chase the opponent's right tech by doing a running SH laser into FSmash. I was unsure if it was a true combo or not.
I think I am probably looking too hard at what's a "true combo" or not though, rather than looking at the whole picture, like gaining advanageous positioning, putting the opponent into hard situations, mixing them up, etc.
 

xezuru

Member
I tried Falco for the first time in months, just happened to be in PM this time. Man, I was trying to do spaced fade back lasers and kept b-reversing (momentum) on accident instead of b-turning? Falco is fun when things are turned on, all the characters I use are insanely fun but only when facing heavyer characters for sweet combo times :(.
 
Sorry, I should've probably mentioned this earlier, but I had seen a video where a Falco would down throw the opponent and tech chase the opponent's right tech by doing a running SH laser into FSmash. I was unsure if it was a true combo or not.
I think I am probably looking too hard at what's a "true combo" or not though, rather than looking at the whole picture, like gaining advanageous positioning, putting the opponent into hard situations, mixing them up, etc.

Eh, a lot of things in Smash aren't "combos" are say Street Fighter. Mostly that's due to DI letting the opponent modify their movement at times. Some stuff will almost always work, but not all the time.

Here's some more Falco stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZiy6OTAsA&list=PLoU3TQBakHOp0LFIjbrfUA8ibLMx6dfWV
 
NPD thread still not up yet, that might be a record

anyway Melee crossed 300 singles entrants at Paragon!

singles/doubles players by game:

Melee: 300/123
Smash 4: 242/114
Project M: 234/138
 
the prize pool for PM at Paragon is INSANE

Who's providing that?

Half or more is from PM shirt sales, not sure about the rest.

Yeah $4500 is from the PMDT running a Tshirt sale:

https://twitter.com/ProjectMGame/status/630769860109164544

Because Versus Gaming chose to not go with some sponsors in order to support PM. I play PM more than Melee nowadays so that's why I had to attend - I wanted to show them how much the community loves it.

Paragon itself had a base pot bonus of 1500 / 500 for each game's singles and doubles tournament, and the $10 registration fee for each game goes towards the pot.

It's gonna be hype!

Speaking of PM, I'll be on Smashladder for the next hour and a half or so. Same SN as on GAF.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Never really thought about it.

I guess it just doesn't come up often. Usually if I have to up B, I'm already being forced to barely recover, and probably dead if they hit me. Also, I tend to try to use my double jump before my final recovery, most of the time.

I do too and it is such an awful scrubby habit I want to break. Seems better to only ever use your double jump if absolutely necessary, or as a mix up if you've made your opponent think you don't have it.

Just a little off stage? Double jump, get hit, RIP.

Also want to get better at remembering to use air dodge for recovery. It's a lot better when you are close enough to the edge to get back on than a horribly laggy up-b like Falcon or Sheik have.
 

emb

Member
I do too and it is such an awful scrubby habit I want to break. Seems better to only ever use your double jump if absolutely necessary, or as a mix up if you've made your opponent think you don't have it.

Just a little off stage? Double jump, get hit, RIP.

Also want to get better at remembering to use air dodge for recovery. It's a lot better when you are close enough to the edge to get back on than a horribly laggy up-b like Falcon or Sheik have.
Yeah, it's not the best. Though close to the stage it can be a great option sometimes. Often you can jump right to ledge. Or land. But then, I'm Marth. So doing my up B leaves me stuck either sweetspotting (dangerous if they just take ledge while I drop down), or being in a ton of lag. As Sheik you can use the first part of up B as kind of a second jump, and go straight to the edge that way.

Agreed on air dodging. It's kinda underused, and people often forget to cover it until you do it a few times.

Honestly though, the worst part of the jumping habit for me is that I jump before I side-b. I know you get a bit more distance doing the forward-b first, but I always jump first because I start to doubt my certainty about still having my jump. So I jump first for fear that I lost it on stage. That prevents me from using it for mixups near the stage though. :(
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
It's nice to be able to avoid the second part of Sheik's up-b, but you can't do that consistently against good players. Easy to just grab the ledge against it, and the the move has so much landing lag when you go on stage with it, it's ridiculously easy to cover even after covering the ledge.

Still so much better than Falcon's recovery. It's almost like a meme now to say "people say Falcon's recovery is really bad but..." when a player recovers successfully with him.

Yeah, no buts. It's terrible. Falcon dive is slow, laggy on landing, incredibly easy to predict since it has a set arc. The only part of his recovery that's "good" is his aerial mobility which allows him fade back and forth to fake out opponents when recovering high, which itself is going to require good DI most of the time. Falcon's recovery takes a ton of effort and skill to have a modicum of decency.

Of course, there is raptor boost, but that's like a once in 500 games kind of thing in Melee. PM raptor boost is a lot better for recovery since the opponent can't block it just by getting hit, and it can grab the ledge.



I realized I've posted too much here, I have the most posts in this thread. Even more than theprodigy!



Does the random teching and DI always function in 20XX? I didn't know about that until just now, maybe I should practice dthrow chain grabs and tech chasing against CPUs. I've never seen an option for that in the debug menu.
 

Grokbu

Member
Eh, a lot of things in Smash aren't "combos" are say Street Fighter. Mostly that's due to DI letting the opponent modify their movement at times. Some stuff will almost always work, but not all the time.

Here's some more Falco stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZiy6OTAsA&list=PLoU3TQBakHOp0LFIjbrfUA8ibLMx6dfWV

Thanks for the link! Really cool stuff. Seeing things like the platform pressure part is so incredibly cool to me and makes my brain melt. Things like that SH laser -> shine -> Jump cancel -> shine -> double jump and waveland onto the platform and glide off of it and hit with a Dair is too cool. Hopefully I'll be able to keep up as I play more.
 
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