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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

P

Pappasman

Member
Ngl with mango and m2k playing bad my interest in this tournament is dropping fast. Someone needs to eliminate hbox to get me back.
 
W

woodland

Member
Man - I know there's a thread for this, but I've been watching Hitbox lately and it seems like every night or two there's a minor PM tourney or something. It's so great seeing the community that active still.

Also loving the Squirtle/Wario/Zard love lately too. Been too long.

tldr; fuck twitch
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
holy shit at the 2013ers in the chat that don't know who phil is

and why hmw + phil is happening on commentary


MY BLOOD IS BOILING
 
A

also

Banned
Mew2King :/

Does anyone else think that the glasses make Leffen look super girly? He can't be the villain of the scene looking like that.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
speaking of The Big House 5, the compendium hit level 11 while everyone was watching HTC Throwdown

that bumps up the Melee singles/doubles pot bonus to $3000/$1000 respectively, as well as a "TBH5 moments video montage by Symeon Platts"
 
U

Ultra Numb

Member
Armada just 3-0'd Westballz

Game 1 Peach vs Falco 3 stock

Game 2 Peach vs Falcon 2 stock

Game 3 Peach vs Falco 3 stock

He's looking at the easiest $10k of his life.
 
E

emb

Member
Armada is insanely good. :)

Commentators said he didn't drop a game the whole tournament. I can't say for sure, but that seems right.
 
F

fredrancour

Member
So is somebody high up in dreamhack management a massive armada fanboy our something because suddenly this tournament feels like a conspiracy to write checks to him.

Wonder if any other gods besides Leffen will flyover for dh winter
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
fredrancour said:
So is somebody high up in dreamhack management a massive armada fanboy our something because suddenly this tournament feels like a conspiracy to write checks to him.

Wonder if any other gods besides Leffen will flyover for dh winter
Click to expand...

I think on stream after HTC they said some were planning on going. Might have been referring to a different tournament but I don't think so, since they definitely talked about Dreamhack.
 
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theprodigy

Member
The Big House 5 is going to be the first time Armada shows up at a major with other gods in it since Evo, isn't it? (Heir II doesn't count)
 
U

Ultra Numb

Member
theprodigy said:
The Big House 5 is going to be the first time Armada shows up at a major with other gods in it since Evo, isn't it? (Heir II doesn't count)
Click to expand...


Yes.

Personally, I have money on Armada winning.

He almost never loses to M2K. He's lost one set ever which was Bo3 and was considered to be in his retirement recovery phase.

He has a winning record against Mango all time. This year he's up 6-2 in sets.

He has a winning record against Hungrybox all time. He's also possitive this year but I'm not sure what the stat is.

He hasn't lost a serious set [not sandbagging and/or drunk] since 2010 against a non top 6 player.

He's 2-2 with PPMD this year, won the last set 3-0.

Leffen is the only big question mark. Although Armada was destroying him earlier in the year for about 6-7 sets straight, Leffen broke the streak at CEO and now he's on a streak of his own. He's won the last four sets, although its worth noting the most recent one was close.

I think it'll be a matter of seeing if Armada has levelled up in the Fox Ditto match-up like Leffen has of recent. His comments at DH at how there's a bunch of stuff he knows about which he hasn't implemented into his game with Fox yet is interesting. We'll see. Big House will be hype.
 
S

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
I think any of the top 6 could take TBH5. It's seriously that much of a toss-up.

Has anyone non-top 6 won a major/national this year?
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Ultra Numb said:
Yes.

Personally, I have money on Armada winning.

He almost never loses to M2K. He's lost one set ever which was Bo3 and was considered to be in his retirement recovery phase.

He has a winning record against Mango all time. This year he's up 6-2 in sets.

He has a winning record against Hungrybox all time. He's also possitive this year but I'm not sure what the stat is.

He hasn't lost a serious set [not sandbagging and/or drunk] since 2010 against a non top 6 player.

He's 2-2 with PPMD this year, won the last set 3-0.

Leffen is the only big question mark. Although Armada was destroying him earlier in the year for about 6-7 sets straight, Leffen broke the streak at CEO and now he's on a streak of his own. He's won the last four sets, although its worth noting the most recent one was close.

I think it'll be a matter of seeing if Armada has levelled up in the Fox Ditto match-up like Leffen has of recent. His comments at DH at how there's a bunch of stuff he knows about which he hasn't implemented into his game with Fox yet is interesting. We'll see. Big House will be hype.
Click to expand...

that's what makes it so exciting

if armada can manage to avoid leffen, he's the obvious favorite. but given how well leffen has been playing lately, I think odds are good that they'll meet at some point.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Anth0ny said:
that's what makes it so exciting

if armada can manage to avoid leffen, he's the obvious favorite. but given how well leffen has been playing lately, I think odds are good that they'll meet at some point.
Click to expand...

Leffen will run into Plup before best of 5s start, lose, and then go on tilt and get eliminated before facing Armada
1.0
 
L

LucidMomentum

Member
I bet the top 6-8 pros feel like they're at a local biweekly whenever they're at majors.

I mean for example I got 0-2'd in PM because my first game was the guy I always go 50-50 with and the second game was my own brother, who of course knows me inside and out.

But when I play other people in our group, I can often get to top 8 pretty easily. It all depends on when I run into my main rivals in the brackets. I got further in Melee than I usually do as a result, and I was playing Ganon most of the night.

We basically know who's coming out on top, but due to brackets and small variations it's always exciting.
 
S

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
theprodigy said:
I don't think a non-top 6 player has won one since forever lol
Click to expand...
You'd think that with how people are talking about the gods being done for and everything, that they have been winning. Leffen is clearly an anomaly - But I'm tired of hearing how close someone got. A non-top 6 player hardly ever gets represented in a grand finals when multiple gods are present. Much less actually win. Tons of results speak for themselves.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Stat Flow said:
You'd think that with how people are talking about the gods being done for and everything, that they have been winning. Leffen is clearly an anomaly - But I'm tired of hearing how close someone got. A non-top 6 player hardly ever gets represented in a grand finals when multiple gods are present. Much less actually win. Tons of results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

yeah, true

using Liquipedia's definitions of "Premier" and "Major" tournaments, the highest non-god placings:

Premier
Wobbles-2nd (Evo 2013, only one to beat 3 of them in a single tournament; tbh I wonder if he could've won it all had Hbox beat Mango in losers finals)

Major
Lucky-2nd (Heir II The Throne; this one doesn't really count because Armada/Leffen were both sandbagging, yet Lucky couldn't beat Armada's secondaries anyway lol)
Fly Amanita-2nd (Press Start; hey no gods in winners finals in this one! although that was largely due to Mango getting DQ'd lol)
Westballz-2nd (MVG Sandstorm; he did take out two gods here though)

and if you want to find a tournament classified as "major" after that where a non-top 6 player made grand finals, you have to go to the pre-Brawl era, back when the old school guys were still playing lol
 
E

emb

Member
Stat Flow said:
You'd think that with how people are talking about the gods being done for and everything, that they have been winning. Leffen is clearly an anomaly - But I'm tired of hearing how close someone got. A non-top 6 player hardly ever gets represented in a grand finals when multiple gods are present. Much less actually win. Tons of results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's super rare. This post made me wanna look through some results to check it out.

(I'm using Liquipedia's Premier and Major tournament listings. These are probably incomplete for some of the older years, idk.)

Instances of a non-top-6 player in grand finals:

Heir II The Throne - Aug 17 2015 - Lucky - 2nd
(special case given Armada and Leffen being weird)

Press Start - May 10 2015 - Fly Amanita - 2nd
(Mango DQ'd in first round, Leffen upset by SFAT, Hbox beaten by Lucky)

Sandstorm - Apr 19 2015 - Westballz - 2nd
(Axe>Leffen, Axe>Mango, Westballz>Hbox) Edit: also Westballz > Mango, thanks prodigy

Evo 2013 - Jul 11 2013 - Wobbles - 2nd
(Wobbles > Mango, Wobbles > PPMD, Wobbles > Hungrybox)
(This is the only tournament that the wiki lists as a 'premier tournament' to include non-top-6 in grands)

I'm pretty sure the list of premier tournaments (supermajors) since Genesis is comprehensive. So that would mean it only happened once, ever, at a supermajor.

And of the tournaments listed there.... that's it. At least since 2008's Pound 3 (which was Mango's breakout event, it had Mango then M2K as first and second). Like I said though, it's probably missing things. The amount of 'majors' in 2009-13 is conspicuously low. I know the game was dead then compared to now, but it felt like more than that happened.

What is and isn't a major here is probably being defined by the presence of the top 6, so hopefully most things with 2+ of them are listed.

Makes you realize how ridiculous the gap is. Even with PPMD not showing up to most things and 4 of the other 5 dropping sets to lower players once in a while, the upsets are rarely ever enough to bleed into top 2. Never into 1st place.

Edit:
theprodigy said:
snip
Click to expand...
lol

Something something great minds. Except I waited to long too post x_x
 
T

theprodigy

Member
you were only 27 minutes late, dude

although I did forget Axe also beat two of them at MVG Sandstorm, but you forgot Westballz did as well so we're even there :p
 
E

emb

Member
Oh wait, we left another one out.

Armada is the only member of the top 6 to drop a set to a Kirby. If he's drinking, that's his own fault, no Johns. Only the worst member of the top players would lose to a Kirby.

Kira represented in grand finals.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
wait hold up, why is CEO 2015 counted as a supermajor but Paragon LA isn't? either both are or neither are, the level of competition is roughly the same (and they're obviously well below Apex/Evo, for what it's worth)
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
theprodigy said:
wait hold up, why is CEO 2015 counted as a supermajor but Paragon LA isn't? either both are or neither are, the level of competition is roughly the same (and they're obviously well below Apex/Evo, for what it's worth)
Click to expand...

Izchx0z.png


But yeah, I wouldn't call CEO a super major. I'd say neither are by 2015 standards, both are just "majors."
 
F

FZZ

Banned
theprodigy said:
wait hold up, why is CEO 2015 counted as a supermajor but Paragon LA isn't? either both are or neither are, the level of competition is roughly the same (and they're obviously well below Apex/Evo, for what it's worth)
Click to expand...

Nah Armada was at CEO, he wasn't at Paragon.

That alone separates the two.
 
U

Ultra Numb

Member
Anth0ny said:
that's what makes it so exciting

if armada can manage to avoid leffen, he's the obvious favorite. but given how well leffen has been playing lately, I think odds are good that they'll meet at some point.
Click to expand...

But then there's also the possibility that Armada could adapt to Leffen and start beating him again, I mean it is Armada after all. I doubt he's been sleeping on the loses to Leffen.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
only supermajors are when all 6 gods are in attendance

apex

evo

possibly big house, MLG and the upcoming genesis

that's it.
 
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