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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

T

TheDanimal

Junior Member
chaosblade said:
Sounds like pools are a mess all-around. Unless they were changed, there are apparently a bunch of top players and regional ranked players in pools together while there are also a bunch of pools of total randoms.

Unless stuff gets fixed it seems like we might see a lot of players go out earlier than expected.
Click to expand...

Combined with Bo3, there are gonna be a ton of upsets at Evo, I think.
And Leffen will be there to complain through it all.
I can't wait to watch some great Melee, though.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Daouzin said:
Have you guys seen how messed up the EVO brackets are? Melee it on me did a good job explaining it. I feel like someone that doesn't play Melee should explain the issue and make a thread about it.

The FGC is too concerned with "getting good," then being fair lol. It also effects SFV and Smash 4 so they should really address it

Players are going to get Double eliminated by the same player super early on and their are byes super far up the bracket. It's pretty silly.

The FGC is just telling Melee people not to be entitled rather than address it lol, shows how much they really care for Smash haha. They would rather shit on their homies than address a real issue.

Edit: Apparently they wil "fix it," next time.
Click to expand...
They actually fixed both issues this time, for Melee and Smash 4!
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Redditor breaks down the top 5 players going into Evo:

Basically, who you pick depends on how much you value sample size (time range). You can really have a good argument for any of the top 4 as they all win their own best time range.

Hungrybox is the number one player of 2016, although very slightly. He has the best record for 2016 and since August 2015. This is of course a very small lead, but a lead nonetheless. Winning time range is high.

Leffen is favored by his 100% win rate against the gods over the past 5 months. It's only a sample size of 1 so the time range is actually nothing but GOML, but that 1 is super convincing as he took down all 4 gods in it, and it was pretty recent. Winning time range is very low.

Armada is the opposite. He's the one that's favored when you draw from a large enough sample size, being the easily most dominant player of 2015, and retaining consistency this year too. Winning time range is very high.

Mango wins by momentum. Recency favors him. He's been 2nd all too much this year, but had an amazing (and patriotic) 1st place finish in the pre-EVO national WTFox 2. Winning time range is medium, as he wasn't too hot last year.

I also want to bring up Mew2king. He isn't as favored as the other 4, but, he has recently shown very convincingly that he can beat any of them which definitely isn't something that any other player can say.

v. Armada: 3-0 at Smash Summit 2.
v. Hungrybox: 3-0 at WTFox 2.
v. Mango: A win and a loss at EGLX, as well as Dreamhack.
v. Leffen: 3 set wins out of the last 4.

It's never been so contested before. It's just such a great time to be a Melee fan and I wanted to put that into perspective a bit. It will be a hype weekend.
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Amazing how close it is right now. Hard to call honestly.

If I had a gun to my head, I'd say... Mango. He wants that 3vo and has a ton of momentum right now. His Marth seems unstoppable in any of his bad matchups right now, too.
 
E

emb

Member
I really wanna see Leffen take it. That's new, it's interesting. M2K or Plup would be the most amazing ones, for different reasons, but I think either has really small odds.

Between the other three favorites, I'd be happy to see any of them win. My only real hope is that we don't see Mango vs Hbox in grand finals. That's happened enough recently.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Or Armada vs Hbox.

Mango/Armada and Mango/M2K make for the best grand finals imo. they always fuck eachother up. would be great for spectators.
 
P

Pappasman

Member
I'm a big #mangonation fanboy but I would love for a non-god to win. The biggest hurdle for anybody ranked 6 onwards would be Hbox, so if he gets knocked out to two other gods, I could see someone like Plup winning, which would be amazing.

Although If mango's marth wins it I'll be happy anyways.
 
F

fredrancour

Member
Pappasman said:
I'm a big #mangonation fanboy but I would love for a non-god to win. The biggest hurdle for anybody ranked 6 onwards would be Hbox, so if he gets knocked out to two other gods, I could see someone like Plup winning, which would be amazing.

Although If mango's marth wins it I'll be happy anyways.
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You think hbox is a bigger hurdle to a new champ breaking out than armada is?
 
S

Sami+

Member
emb said:
I really wanna see Leffen take it. That's new, it's interesting. M2K or Plup would be the most amazing ones, for different reasons, but I think either has really small odds.

Between the other three favorites, I'd be happy to see any of them win. My only real hope is that we don't see Mango vs Hbox in grand finals. That's happened enough recently.
Click to expand...

Aaaaaalmost agreed. I'd much rather see Axe than Plup. Everything else though for sure!
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I don't remember dreams very well at all, but a couple nights ago I remember dreaming grand finals was Plup-Leffen and Armada won.

Yeah. I don't get it either.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
Pappasman said:
I'm a big #mangonation fanboy but I would love for a non-god to win. The biggest hurdle for anybody ranked 6 onwards would be Hbox, so if he gets knocked out to two other gods, I could see someone like Plup winning, which would be amazing.

Although If mango's marth wins it I'll be happy anyways.
Click to expand...

Lately I've been thinking that 2016 as a whole should be the send-off to the era of the Gods. I still don't think the non-Gods (Plup, Axe, Wizzy) are on the level of the gods but they're getting there. I also want to see the 3VO over everything else though I kinda don't think it'll happen. I'd love to see a non-God take Evo 2017, or win some smaller tournament with the gods present like Pound or CEO (wouldn't want to see Genesis because of the Mango/Armada thing).

Also, another random thought I've had recently: If Mango's Marth really gives Armada trouble in the coming months, I think he'll pick up Sheik. He already kind of has a Sheik iirc and Sheik is a direct counter to Marth. Additionally I think Armada's playstyle would suit Sheik super well (phenomenal fundamentals and punish game, very patient).
 
F

fredrancour

Member
Pappasman said:
Yeah, I think he puts up a much stronger wall than Armada's Fox does. Peach is tougher, but still is not the roadblock Puff can be.
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I feel like with lucky and sfat and such successfully pushing hbox to the limit multiple times, his clutch factor can't hold out forever, but I don't know how the similar players have been doing against armada, or even which character he's picked. Who all has armada been busting out fox against, anyway?

I suppose that axe's game 5 vs armada's peach at eclipse is further than he's pushed hbox in quite some time, and if armada ever feels pressured into bringing out fox against him all bets are off... I look forward to seeing axe's strategy of "counterpick to stadium and make the match take as long as possible" in action against the floaty gods again soon.

Then, I've just realized I basically know nothing about sheik's floaty matchups, so i'm not gonna speculate about who plup's gonna beat at a major first. Though I suppose the "pray for miraculous samus bullshit" option will always be on the table if he gets frustrated. A win like that would make him my favorite player forever, though the only way any samus is ever gonna beat hbox's puff is if somebody drugs the man before the set.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
fredrancour said:
I feel like with lucky and sfat and such successfully pushing hbox to the limit multiple times, his clutch factor can't hold out forever, but I don't know how the similar players have been doing against armada, or even which character he's picked. Who all has armada been busting out fox against, anyway?

I suppose that axe's game 5 vs armada's peach at eclipse is further than he's pushed hbox in quite some time, and if armada ever feels pressured into bringing out fox against him all bets are off... I look forward to seeing axe's strategy of "counterpick to stadium and make the match take as long as possible" in action against the floaty gods again soon.

Then, I've just realized I basically know nothing about sheik's floaty matchups, so i'm not gonna speculate about who plup's gonna beat at a major first. Though I suppose the "pray for miraculous samus bullshit" option will always be on the table if he gets frustrated. A win like that would make him my favorite player forever, though the only way any samus is ever gonna beat hbox's puff is if somebody drugs the man before the set.
Click to expand...

armada's fox seems to be mainly for hbox's puff, fox ditto against leffen, and sometimes fox ditto against mango, but he usually goes peach vs mango.

at evo last year he went fox against pp's marth and falco but since then I feel like he's become a more balanced fox/peach main instead of leaning more towards fox. dual maining is becoming more and more common at the top level of play it seems...
 
F

fredrancour

Member
Anth0ny said:
armada's fox seems to be mainly for hbox's puff, fox ditto against leffen, and sometimes fox ditto against mango, but he usually goes peach vs mango.

at evo last year he went fox against pp's marth and falco but since then I feel like he's become a more balanced fox/peach main instead of leaning more towards fox. dual maining is becoming more and more common at the top level of play it seems...
Click to expand...

ah ok thanks that's about what I remembered. I think he still did the counterpick war with PP at genesis too, iirc
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I thought he already had like 6 months before they extended him to two years? Has that not even started yet? Before it seemed like even with just the 6 months he was definitely going to Evo.
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


at least once he gets approved he'll be competing here more often in the last half of the year. lots of big tournaments coming up
 
X

xezuru

Member
Yeah it fucking sucks, but I mean unlike most of the Smash guys, Leffen previously played Marvel 3 to a decent level and some SF4 background so he has some things to keep his mind/reflexes sharp in the meanwhile. But yeah I can't blame Leffen for tweeting all this type of shit for the past year, really does seem the world was against him even disregarding fandom.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
kinda amazing the ongoing story we have going, though.

melee has been esports for a while now, yet how many times have all six gods been in attendance at a single tournament?

between leffens visa issues, ppmd's mental health and m2ks hands, all 6 top players being at a single tournament has been a rarity, and I'm not sure if all six have ever been at a single tournament playing at their full potential.

as long as this dream scenario continues to be a dream scenario, amazingly, I think that keeps melee exciting to watch and follow for a lot of people. it's a good thing when you come out of a tournament thinking "yeah, but what if leffen was here?" or "mango played like a buster, wait til next tournament"

evo should still be great. hopefully we get a good top 8 this time around, though. no leffen really helps hbox's chances... which might extend top 8 by 30 minutes alone ;)
 
P

peter0611

Member
Unlike other fighters, the success of Melee is highly dependent on the stories and narratives from its very small group of elite players. That us, anyone who has a shot at winning.

This is especially true of Mango. At Summit (I think) he mentioned it would be a massive hit to the community if him or or one of the big six just retired. How many people would continue to be interested in the game (from spectator pov)? That's pretty scary to think of.

I'd personally love it if the top 20 started becoming viable threats and actually won majors. I don't have a big investment in seeing the same group of players dominate or take top8/top3, even if they are very cool, charismatic, interesting, etc. But I know I'm probably in the minority.
 
T

TheDanimal

Junior Member
peter0611 said:
I'd personally love it if the top 20 started becoming viable threats and actually won majors. I don't have a big investment in seeing the same group of players dominate or take top8/top3, even if they are very cool, charismatic, interesting, etc. But I know I'm probably in the minority.
Click to expand...
I'm just waiting for Plup, Axe, Sfat, or Wizzrobe (he's been so good as of late) to break through.
But I feel like I've been waiting awhile for that.
 
F

fredrancour

Member
TheDanimal said:
I'm just waiting for Plup, Axe, Sfat, or Wizzrobe (he's been so good as of late) to break through.
But I feel like I've been waiting awhile for that.
Click to expand...

the gods want to improve just as hard as the aspirants. It'll be hard to close the gap until the gods hit walls.

Who knows what that wall will be, though. I guess human fingers have their limits, if nothing else. Or for Hbox, if any other puffs come up effectively enough to share Abu duties for players looking to practice.
 
X

xezuru

Member
On happier news, S2J gets picked up by Temp Storm. Good shit to him, he's been putting work in but it seemed like he was getting to the point where he felt like he hit his peak in terms of melee he could do within his personal life situation and might of quit within a year or so. Hopefully this gives him the drive and access to really pull out the stops.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
xezuru said:
On happier news, S2J gets picked up by Temp Storm. Good shit to him, he's been putting work in but it seemed like he was getting to the point where he felt like he hit his peak in terms of melee he could do within his personal life situation and might of quit within a year or so. Hopefully this gives him the drive and access to really pull out the stops.
Click to expand...

Smoke 2 Jointz had this to say about joining his new team:
I'm very excited to join the ranks of Tempo Storm, a team of some of the sickest homies in all of esports.
Click to expand...
 
Q

Quenk

Member
Gravy is retiring after Evo? He seemed like an okay guy but apparently he's been getting a bunch of negativity towards him. That sucks :(
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
Alliance Armada
1.0
 
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