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[UnemployedVillain]

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/29/constance-wu-matt-damon-great-wall-racist-myth

She had a long tweet below, but she's speaking some real truths, and arguing against the same tired bullshit arguments that I even see on here constantly (mainly remember them from the GiTS movie thread)

She also took issue with the notion that actors of color can’t sell tickets, writing, “Money is the lamest excuse in the history of being human. … Why not TRY to be better? If white actors are forgiven for having a box office failure once in a while, why can’t a [person of color] sometimes have one? And how COOL would it be if you were the movie that took the ‘risk’ to make a POC as your hero, and you sold the s‑‑‑ out of it?! The whole community would be celebrating!”

Quoting duckroll, because many people don't realize this

NOPE.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/28/great-wall-first-look

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: This is your first time working with a Hollywood studio, Universal. What has the experience been like? Does it feel like the biggest project you’ve ever worked on?
ZHANG YIMOU: Indeed, this is the biggest film I have worked on. Working with a Hollywood studio, I have learned a lot. Hollywood studios are very experienced in filmmaking and this is worth studying. However, there are also many differences between Hollywood and Chinese filmmaking. So in order to collaborate, good communication is important. All in all, this type of partnership allows both sides to have a deeper understanding of each other. It opens the door, creates more opportunities for the future, and builds a great foundation.

How do the film’s Hollywood elements blend with its Chinese elements?
First and foremost, this is an English-language film, and a Hollywood blockbuster. It was already very clear in the script phase. This is a Hollywood monster movie and needs to be made in that style. I don’t want to change that approach, and there’s no need to do that. What I really want is to bring Chinese color and cultural background to the worldwide audience through a film language that they are familiar with.

How much did your own Chinese identity contribute to the development of the film?
A lot. This script was written by American screenwriters. So the story is really told from an American’s perspective. When I came onboard, I wanted to make sure everything Chinese in this film feels genuine.

---

You see, some people mistakenly believe this is a Chinese-language film for China with some western leads for flavor like Dragon Blade or whatever. No. This is a Chinese production made in the Hollywood system targeting the worldwide (read: western) audience, with western leads, and is entirely in English, written by Hollywood screenwriters.

 

[BrokenFiction]

This one is interesting because it's a Chinese movie that went out and got a white actor. Not the other way around. All financing is Chinese. All production. Everything.

 

[Dany]

Constance Wu is amazing. Love her on Fresh off the Boat and she is making an incredible point about this movie.

 

[Acorn]

It's a Chinese film in this instance.

 

[pigeon]

I love Constance Wu. Not only is she a great actress, too good for TV, she really does understand Asian erasure and systemic racism in deep terms.

She's absolutely right here. I've seen Dances With Wolves already.

 

[HariKari]

Corporations should be motivated by "mad respect", not money?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

This one is interesting because it's a Chinese movie that went out and got a white actor. Not the other way around. All financing is Chinese. All production. Everything.

Yeah, but she kind of addresses it with her part about some POC not really caring. It's not like they're above subscribing to the same notion that white star = bankability that white Hollywood execs do. And especially so if you're a Chinese studio who are trying to think of worldwide appeal and constantly see Hollywood reinforcing this very idea

 

[Zornack]

American born woman tells Chinese born director who to cast in his film.

Not a great look.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This one is interesting because it's a Chinese movie that went out and got a white actor. Not the other way around. All financing is Chinese. All production. Everything.

It's a Chinese film in this instance.

Yeah, it really doesn't fit for this case. It's mis-aimed criticism. now if it was a hollywood movie..like...the last samurai, her point would be valid >_>;

 

[Atilac]

I highly doubt Matt Damon did this movie with the intent of continuing this trope, and I imagine the Chinese executives aren't in the business of spreading a racist message against Chinese people. We also can't tell from the trailer that Matt Damon's character is "the one" and will save them.

 

[dancingphlower]

I'm tired of the white savior complex in films. A Chinese movie adding a white man as its lead to appeal to American audiences? Figures.

 

[Volimar]

Is this film historical like Lincoln was historical or historical like Titanic was historical? Cuz if it's a dramatization with historical bits in it, then I'm fine with it.

Though the white savior is an awful trope.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Is this film historical like Lincoln was historical or historical like Titanic was historical? Cuz if it's a dramatization with historical bits in it, then I'm fine with it.

Though the white savior is an awful trope.

Lol

Damon plays a warrior battling monsters along the wall in the film, which is set 1,000 years in the past.

 

[iamblades]

Is this film historical like Lincoln was historical or historical like Titanic was historical? Cuz if it's a dramatization with historical bits in it, then I'm fine with it.

Though the white savior is an awful trope.

Neither, it's historical like the Odyssey or Beowulf is historical.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Lol

YOU WEREN'T THERE!

 

[spiderman123]

Wait didnt a chinese firm opt to get Matt?!

 

[HStallion]

Is this film historical like Lincoln was historical or historical like Titanic was historical? Cuz if it's a dramatization with historical bits in it, then I'm fine with it.

Though the white savior is an awful trope.

Its got dragons and fantasy monsters out of Chinese myth. Its basically as realistic a depiction of ancient China as we're going to get.

 

[HariKari]

Yeah, it really doesn't fit for this case. It's mis-aimed criticism. now if it was a hollywood movie..like...the last samurai, her point would be valid >_>;

Last Samurai doesn't really play the white savior card, though. Tom Cruise's character is just along for the ride in a moment of history. History Buffs did a good video on it.

 

[The Faceless Master]

how can someone be racist against their own race?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Wait didnt a chinese firm opt to get Matt?!

I dunno if this changes things that much, since the point is they're trying to sell this thing to American audiences, which of course means White Savior trope, with Damon looking immediately and ridiculously out of place.

Of course, we know jack shit about where it goes from there, but that was a bad first impression.

 

[Slayven]

Love her, and she right

 

[Fury451]

Not wrong, but as there have said, this case is weird because it's an entirely Chinese production and a fantasy one too. Maybe it does go somewhere different in execution, but I can see how he initial trailer may perpetuate the trope.

Yeah, it really doesn't fit for this case. It's mis-aimed criticism. now if it was a hollywood movie..like...the last samurai, her point would be valid >_>;

I get what you mean, and there's a lot of films that have done this, but Last Samurai doesn't fit- Cruise's character is definitely not a white savior trope, he's basically a deconstruction of that trope.

 

[questionmark]

Whites even appropriating main character roles in Chinese movies now.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Eh, it's a s full on Chinese movie and a fantasy version of history at that. If they want a white guy in it than whatever. It's not like Matt Damonand Ben Affleck starred in Red Cliff.

Not to say I think a white guy should be in it, given the setting, but if they want him then I don't see a big problem.

 

[milkham]

I highly doubt Matt Damon did this movie with the intent of continuing this trope, and I imagine the Chinese executives aren't in the business of spreading a racist message against Chinese people. We also can't tell from the trailer that Matt Damon's character is "the one" and will save them.

PRC Chinese are not going to be looking at it the same way that Chinese Americans do. They have likely never had a conversation about representation or examined it because Chinese representation in Chinese movies isn't an issue. To a Chinese movie exec it's probably "matt damon = money" you try to bring this issue up and "its just one movie" but to Chinese Americans this is every movie. Chinese people paying for it doesn't mean it isn't perpetuating a racist image.

 

[Professor Lich]

YOU WEREN'T THERE!

For all we know, there aren't any monsters in the world because the Chinese killed them all 1000 years ago!

 

[Archer]

Though the white savior is an awful trope.

 

[- J - D -]

This one is interesting because it's a Chinese movie that went out and got a white actor. Not the other way around. All financing is Chinese. All production. Everything.

The article says it's a co-production with Legendary Pictures.

Even if it were an all-Chinese production that just happened to have white Hollywood actors, it still looks mostly bad, or at the least, really cynical in the best light.

When it comes to international star power and bankability, the belief is still that that luxury is held primarily in the hands of white actors, save for maybe a Will Smith or Vin Diesel. Other than a few extremely rare cases, you ain't gonna see anyone's but a white face on these weird west/east productions.

Hollywood's pool of bankable Asian leads, the kind that can truly claim to have international appeal to be even considered for a production like this, is nonexistent.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

now if it was a hollywood movie..like...the last samurai, her point would be valid >_>;

How people can't comprehend this movie still amazes me.

 

[sprsk]

This is why the plight of Asian American actors is going to be really complicated going forward as China starts to put more money into Hollywood.

China\Asia want white Hollywood actors to give their movies "legitimacy", it's a prestige thing. "Oh boy Matt Damon is in a movie directed by a Chinese wow look at that!" is the reaction they want.

From an American viewpoint this movie looks dumb and fucked up, but from the other side of the ocean, it means something completely different.

 

[Surface of Me]

PRC Chinese are not going to be looking at it the same way that Chinese Americans do. They have likely never had a conversation about representation or examined it because Chinese representation in Chinese movies isn't an issue. To a Chinese movie exec it's probably "matt damon = money" you try to bring this issue up and "its just one movie" but to Chinese Americans this is every movie. Chinese people paying for it doesn't mean it isn't perpetuating a racist image.

Perhaps, but they arent the root of the issue. They are a branch stemming out of it.

 

[HariKari]

The article says it's a co-production with Legendary Pictures.

Legendary is owned by a Chinese group.

 

[ExVicis]

American born woman tells Chinese born director who to cast in his film.

Not a great look.

I did laugh.

But Chinese or no she does have a point.

how can someone be racist against their own race?

Easily! You just be racist against a specific group of people, and be of that race.

 

[platakul]

I did laugh.

But Chinese or no she does have a point.

I mean.. the premise of the movie is european explorers finding the great wall and also dragons. That doesn't HAVE to be the premise, but it is

 

[Renekton]

I think many Asia-region Chinese like myself don't care too much about racial representation. Go ahead and cast Chris Pine as Wukong for all I care.

Even Crimson Typhoon using the dumbest stereotype and biting the dust in 3 seconds didn't outrage us.

 

[- J - D -]

Legendary is owned by a Chinese group.

Okay, though that doesn't really change the sentiments in the rest of my post.

 

[neojubei]

This one is interesting because it's a Chinese movie that went out and got a white actor. Not the other way around. All financing is Chinese. All production. Everything.

Everything?

 

[HStallion]

So the Paul Mooney joke about this would go a little along the lines of Matt Damon is The Last C... you know what, nevermind.

 

[Guevara]

Legendary is owned by a Chinese group.

Yeah I was going to say, small ironies.

 

[Usobuko]

how can someone be racist against their own race?

The truth in this world is people, almost all of them, only embrace movies made from two races.

Theirs and White ( Americans biased ).

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Remember, this same director also cast Christian Bale in The Flowers of War, a Chinese historical drama set during the Rape of Nanking.

I guess getting Hollywood stars to headline his films could become a trend for him.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I think many Asia-region Chinese like myself don't care too much about racial representation. Go ahead and cast Chris Pine as Wukong for all I care.

Even Crimson Typhoon using the dumbest stereotype and biting the dust in 3 seconds didn't outrage us.

Right because there are Chinese made movies that feature, gasp, all Chinese actors.

Asian Americans don't have that here so it's a fair complaint. Just not for this particular movie.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

How people can't comprehend this movie still amazes me.

Yeah, it's been a decade now and it's still getting regurgitated.

Samurai is plural for starters, and as for the white savior trope, Tom Cruise's character didn't save a damn thing, he only came to respect a culture.

 

[Althane]

Everything?

Well, not any of the writers...

directed by Zhang Yimou and written by Tony Gilroy, Carlo Bernard, Doug Miro, Max Brooks, Edward Zwick, and Marshall Herskovitz

 

[UnemployedVillain]

American born woman tells Chinese born director who to cast in his film.

Not a great look.

You have to think of it from the perspective of an Asian American. It can be vastly different than a minority living in their home country. When an Asian in their respective country looks at movies, the vast majority are from their respective movie industries, meaning they see tons of representation of themselves and similar faces. Yes, it's a globalized economy and Hollywood is large as well, but their perception is looking into the "Western cinema" as an outsider and assuming it reflects the demographics of Western countries.

For an Asian American they see it in reverse. While they identify with their home countries, their movie industry IS Hollywood and they see the lack of representation. That China has a movie industry where 99.9% of the actors are Chinese is irrelevant.

So despite you pointing out her being Asian American as some attempt at irony, that very fact is EXACTLY why she's in a more reasonable position to make these claims

 

[Gully State]

This is why the plight of Asian American actors is going to be really complicated going forward as China starts to put more money into Hollywood.

China\Asia want white Hollywood actors to give their movies "legitimacy", it's a prestige thing. "Oh boy Matt Damon is in a movie directed by a Chinese wow look at that!" is the reaction they want.

From an American viewpoint this movie looks dumb and fucked up, but from the other side of the ocean, it means something completely different.

This reminds me of the attitude that Chinese educational institutions have when it comes to English teachers. Chinese Americans, despite command of both languages are passed up for White teachers (sometimes from areas where English isn't even the native language) for perception reasons.

 

[Fuchsdh]

PRC Chinese are not going to be looking at it the same way that Chinese Americans do. They have likely never had a conversation about representation or examined it because Chinese representation in Chinese movies isn't an issue. To a Chinese movie exec it's probably "matt damon = money" you try to bring this issue up and "its just one movie" but to Chinese Americans this is every movie. Chinese people paying for it doesn't mean it isn't perpetuating a racist image.

Yep. China doesn't have the same hang ups on Asian-American representation America has... For obvious reasons. They go out of their way to find white people at malls, put them in Chinese traditional garb (appropriation!) and laugh them on TV. It's a different place, and a different context.

While I understand what Wu is grappling with (and you have to give her props for being so outspoken when she's got a career in the business) but I don't think this is the movie to jump on for these issues.

 

[ExVicis]

I mean.. the premise of the movie is european explorers finding the great wall and also dragons. That doesn't HAVE to be the premise, but it is

But maybe that's a result of our Hollywood White-washing? What if we had a multitude of Asian Actors on the level of fame as Matt Damon? Then maybe Chinese films would seek out those Asian Actors for their movies?

 

[- J - D -]

Yeah I was going to say, small ironies.

There's no irony here. Those who think there is can't see the forest for the trees. It's still directly associated with a larger more deeply rooted problem in the film industry and a response along the lines of just "hur hur this is a Chinese production hiring Matt Damon so it doesn't count!" doesn't cut it.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah, it's been a decade now and it's still getting regurgitated.

Samurai is plural for starters, and as for the white savior trope, Tom Cruise's character didn't save a damn thing, he only came to respect a culture.

I don't particularly like the Last Samurai, but yeah, the movie is really about the Ken Watanabe character and Cruise is just a window for the mainstream western audience