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Constance Wu says Matt Damon's Great Wall perpetuates 'racist myth'
- Thread starter UnemployedVillain
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I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a larger and pervasive problem here, just that this situation is a bit different than traditional Hollywood whitewashing.
And the fact that I can say "traditional Hollywood whitewashing" is the problem.
Yeah. Look what happened with the movie stonewall.
On a side note Netflix is going ahead with the Deathnote movie
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I mean he tried to help a bit with modern strategy because you had white guys advising the other side as well, and it did nothing in the end.
Tom came to respect the old ways for the most part.
Rastafarian42
Member
She's not lying.
I just can't get over the fact that an upper class American woman, born to a computer programmer and a university professor, is telling a Chinese born director whose first two jobs were as a farm hand and as textile worker to stop being racist and cast who she decides should be in the movie.
She needs to take a step back and look at the situation, not blindly criticize.
Wait this movie has Matt Damon AND Andy Lau?
That's brilliant, also they both played the same character basically before. Lol
A movie with both Leo Dicaprio and Tony Leung must happen!
Though I could probably do without a movie that had both Jack Nicholson and Eric Tsang.
milkham
Member
Yeah I'm trying to say that Chinese funding isn't some kind of "gotcha!" that invalidates her argument. If anything it just shows how deep the white savior trope goes.
so she hasn't tasted enough poverty to have an opinion on movie casting?
UnemployedVillain
Member
Still don't see the relevance in any of that. It's not like she's personally calling out the director. And it's not like her comments aren't 100% true
Answer this. Why is it that a Chinese movie firm looking for a big Hollywood actor chose Matt Damon of all people? Do you think if there were any Asian actors of comparable position they wouldn't have chosen them? And why aren't there any Asian actors who are close to being at Matt Damon's level of stardom?
The director is somehow exempt from her accusations of racism?
Wait this movie has Matt Damon AND Andy Lau?
That's brilliant, also they both played the same character basically before. Lol
Andy Lau plays Matt Damon's personified white guilt and privilege.
The China citizens don't interact with the world as much using the Internet because several prominent sites are blocked by Chinese government.
They have their own equivalent google ( baidu ), reddit ( tie ba ), amazon ( alibaba ), youtube ( youku ), twittter ( weibo ), facebook ( qq ).
If the floodgates are open, then they can see that quite clearly, Asians do not hold the same equivalent standings as Whites. And then maybe they would understand why we, the other Asians that reside in this hemisphere too, want to see less of Hollywood whitewashing because such trends are just detrimental in all aspects.
They have their own equivalent google ( baidu ), reddit ( tie ba ), amazon ( alibaba ), youtube ( youku ), twittter ( weibo ), facebook ( qq ).
If the floodgates are open, then they can see that quite clearly, Asians do not hold the same equivalent standings as Whites. And then maybe they would understand why we, the other Asians that reside in this hemisphere too, want to see less of Hollywood whitewashing because such trends are just detrimental in all aspects.
This is more just that there are so few internationally bankable stars in this way, it's going to be hard to have a representative sample when the group is so small.
Maybe a dozen dudes that I can think of(maybe half a dozen women), of which Will Smith(arguable recently), the Rock and Vin Diesel(only when counting F&F movies) are 3 of. The others on the list are Cruise, Pitt, Damon, Affleck(maybe?), Clooney, probably Chris Pratt nowadays.
The last (maybe only?) asian actor to make that list was probably Jackie Chan at his peak.
Which is not to say there aren't structural issues, it's just that looking at the top level blockbuster that is intended for a global release you are dealing with an absolutely tiny sample size. There are maybe 20 of these types of films made per year, and they are probably all going to try and get one of those 12 dudes or 6 women.
No?
My point is that it is racist for an American to step in and think they have a better idea of how a Chinese production should cast their movie.
bahahahahaha
UnemployedVillain
Member
American isn't a race
DontBeThatGuy
Member
What?
Nah man nah.
Has a plot summary or more detail than the short trailer that I saw been shown? Because I keep seeing "White Savior", but one of the writers is the same guy that did The Last Samurai, which (as noted previously in this topic) gets hammered for being "White Savior" when it really isn't.
Bubble Metropolis
Member
No, but Chinese people are? The OP's point is that it's a racist trope for the enlightened westerner to talk down to lesser ethnicities of color, in this instance claiming that the Chinese don't know the right way to cast a Chinese film in a way which protects the dignity of the Chinese people.
I'd argue that that is subject to change as China progressively becomes a larger presence in the global film industry, so the casting and all of the discussions about the diversity therein for these types of productions should be considered an issue of growing importance, especially if they all find root in Hollywood's own diversity issue(s). I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post.
nhlducks35
Member
To be fair, I don't think the Chinese constitute their own race, they're more of a nationality.
Then again, there's a billion of 'em, so... eh?
Foreign Jackass
Member
Uh, no. People from everywhere in the world can judge the racism of anyone anywhere in the world, given sufficient information.
andythinkpad
Member
It's a Hollywood company owned by Chinese money producing a Chinese movie directed by a Chinese director starring a Hollywood man who has huge international BO draw. She need to get some perspective.
In fact this kind of collaboration is extremely common between Asia coproductions.
In fact this kind of collaboration is extremely common between Asia coproductions.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Just out of curiosity, was there any "white savior" backlash to Netflix's Marco Polo?
I just get the feeling there's absolutely no right way to do it, even when a film subverts the trope (like Last Samurai) it still gets blamed for perpetuating the problem, so what's the solution? I've never heard anyone mention it when it comes to Marco Polo (I'd imagine it's out there though) but there is a right way to do it, and we know almost nothing about the content of this movie, for all we know Matt Damon gets crushed by a monster in the opening 30 minutes, so much for our white savior.
Just a bit early to jump the gun in my opinion.
I just get the feeling there's absolutely no right way to do it, even when a film subverts the trope (like Last Samurai) it still gets blamed for perpetuating the problem, so what's the solution? I've never heard anyone mention it when it comes to Marco Polo (I'd imagine it's out there though) but there is a right way to do it, and we know almost nothing about the content of this movie, for all we know Matt Damon gets crushed by a monster in the opening 30 minutes, so much for our white savior.
Just a bit early to jump the gun in my opinion.
Mighty Chin
Banned
This sounds like a movie I would love if Matt Damon wasn't in it.
You have every right to do so.
But it does feel super weird that white people are being outraged on our behalf. Not sure about ABCs though, we kinda no-true-Scotsman-ed them haha.
karasu
Member
through ignorance.
Uh where did I say it was?
UnemployedVillain
Member
Bubba_Sparks
Member
This is a pretty difficult subject to broach.
If you're a Chinese film production looking to attract an international audience, of which the United States has traditionally been the most lucrative, you have to go with what sells. I think that's basically what this boils down to! Why do white actors continue to have a disproportionate share of roles in big Hollywood movies is a totally different question. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that historically the global box office has been dominated by countries with a majority white population, and in which the white population holds the most disposable income. I don't know if racism was institutionalized in Hollywood, but even if it wasn't it was in society at large leaving minorities without representation. Hollywood has to sell films to the largest audience, and for most of history that has been white people with the money to spend on movies and merchandise. They aren't going to go out of their way to bankroll movies to appeal to Asians or any other minority group if they only represent a small portion of society and don't have the disposable income to justify the investment. In the case of this movie, the Chinese production company knows what sells on the global stage, and most importantly what sells in America, and took an actor that will appeal to that audience.
EDIT: Also this isn't, "Matt Damon's Great Wall" I think that title would more appropriately go to the director or the studio producing it.
If you're a Chinese film production looking to attract an international audience, of which the United States has traditionally been the most lucrative, you have to go with what sells. I think that's basically what this boils down to! Why do white actors continue to have a disproportionate share of roles in big Hollywood movies is a totally different question. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that historically the global box office has been dominated by countries with a majority white population, and in which the white population holds the most disposable income. I don't know if racism was institutionalized in Hollywood, but even if it wasn't it was in society at large leaving minorities without representation. Hollywood has to sell films to the largest audience, and for most of history that has been white people with the money to spend on movies and merchandise. They aren't going to go out of their way to bankroll movies to appeal to Asians or any other minority group if they only represent a small portion of society and don't have the disposable income to justify the investment. In the case of this movie, the Chinese production company knows what sells on the global stage, and most importantly what sells in America, and took an actor that will appeal to that audience.
EDIT: Also this isn't, "Matt Damon's Great Wall" I think that title would more appropriately go to the director or the studio producing it.
And run by a white guy, Peter Loehr, who came from the Beijing branch of CAA which is an American talent agency. The Great Wall went into production way before Legendary was bought out by the Chinese. The original director attached to this project was Ed Zwick... famous for... you guessed it... The Last Samurai.
BearFlexington
Member
Tired.
China and Hollywood are both weak as fuck for this.
China and Hollywood are both weak as fuck for this.
milkham
Member
I was just looking at imdb before reading your post, I thought the image they had up for it was pretty funny. Sure its not going to be the final poster or whatever but
BearFlexington
Member
Still waiting for the Paul Mooney punch line.
TestMonkey
Member
Again with the Last Samurai defenders. I just can't keep doing this. I support Constance Wu.
Wait I know what the M. Night shyamalanesque twist will be now, thanks to this poster. Its all a big mindfuck. Any Lau man's the Great Wall to keep something out... and that was MATT DAMON!!!
She didn't call him out. Get over it. She's looking for anyone to have the stones to step up and take the challenge of doing it right for once.
1) This has already covered. Nationality, not race.
2) Hollywood production company. Doesn't matter who owns it. It's written and produced by the Hollywood machine.
3) She's absolutely right. Besides, from her professional and personal position she's in exactly the right place to be speaking up about this. Not a lot of people can or would.
You really didn't stop to think about what all of those people have in common, did you?
Take a moment, google if need be. Then come back when you've grasped why they would be held in high regard by a people living with a legacy of communist rule and suppression.
Now contrast that with the unspoken rules of how the white savior trope works, and why it exists.
And where are you from
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Huh.
This seems blind to some of realities of inter-national politics. I'm actually really curious what the domestic reaction in China would have been if they casted a non-Chinese POC instead of Damon. Like a Ken Watanabe or Daniel Kim.
Anyways, I wouldn't mind Damon's addition if what we've seen/heard so far didn't seem phoned in. I'm interested to see what happens with his performance.
Makes me wonder how it would've been received if it had been a Japanese or Vietnamese actor, instead of Damon.
Not on the Western side of the world (poorly, most likely), but in China.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I don't think it's blind to it. In fact, early in here I voiced my thoughts on how those very politics are the part of the reason for her comments.
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