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[Angelus Errare]

Kind of strange that no bystanders recorded anything on their phones....in a Walmart of all places. I mean if someone is walking around supposedly waving a gun at children, you'd think there would be someone who was recording this.

 

[Red Chocobo]

racists gonna racist

What? When did I mention race? :/

Maybe things are different in the US. But here in the UK, there is a strict rule on carrying replica guns. And it has/will get a lethal response from armed police.

 

[Speevy]

Well, I wasn't there, but the situation seems like one of two things.

Either some idiot cop with an itchy trigger finger killed someone who was just holding a toy.

If so, he needs to be fired/charged

or


Some idiot guy was waving a toy gun at customers.

If so, it's sad but justified.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Also why is it legal to manufacture 'toy' guns that look almost identical to their real life counterpart.

Because we have a federal constitution that limits the authority of both Congress and local governments from unduly burdening interstate commerce through the complete prohibition of something that is not inherently dangerous.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Because they shot him first...

How do you know this???

 

[BronsonLee]

Yep, it is. I don't think we see it as much as say, Texas. But a few months ago with that whole go to Chipotle with your guns thing was going around I saw a few (white) people exercising their right.

Then there is literally no reason for the police to have approached the situation this way.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What? When did I mention race? :/

Maybe things are different in the US. But here in the UK, there is a strict rule on carrying replica guns. And it has/will get a lethal response from armed police.

Maybe not outwardly racist, but maybe mostly just willfully and aggressively ignorant.

How do you know this???

Because why would someone buying a toy gun not put it down when armed police tell them to? What's more likely: this black American — who's seen at least a handful of "cops execute black people" stories in his lifetime — decides to taunt police, egging them to shoot him


OR


police say "putyourweapondownhandupsplice" he's surprised and startled, not knowing what's going on, and they shoot him less than a second later.

 

[jay]

What? When did I mention race? :/

Maybe things are different in the US. But here in the UK, there is a strict rule on carrying replica guns. And it will has/will get a lethal response from armed police.

In the US there is a strict rule that the police must shoot black people for little or no reason. Haven't heard of any rules on toy guns.

Seriously, if you don't have any idea of the context of the police and race culture here, maybe you should be less aggressive with your posts condemning this guy.

 

[The Cowboy]

What? When did I mention race? :/

Maybe things are different in the US. But here in the UK, there is a strict rule on carrying replica guns. And it will has/will get a lethal response from armed police.

In fairness though, we have a really different Police force over here, and the stats say otherwise on getting a lethal response from armed police - over the years our Police force hasn't used lethal force all that much at all.

 

[Korigama]

How do you know this???

“He said he was at the video games playing videos and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were. And the next thing I know, he said ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him. And I could hear him just crying and screaming. I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.”

Right from the article. In the OP.

 

[BronsonLee]

In fairness though, we have a really different Police force over here, and the stats say otherwise on getting a lethal response from armed police - over the years our Police force hasn't used lethal force all that much at all.

Are you both from the UK? This is rather important for discussion.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Filtered though the eyes of racism it probably looked like he was waving it around.

 

[Josh7289]

If I saw someone in public carrying a real gun, I would immediately leave that area and call the police. So if that's what happened in this case, I get it. But apparently he also told the police his gun wasn't real so if that's the case then the police just murdered this man.

Also what I said applies to what I see in some pictures in this thread; that is, if I saw people carrying real guns in public, even if they're legally allowed to in that state, I would immediately leave and call the police. I don't trust any idiot on the street with a gun. I'm very thankful that I live in a state which entirely bans carrying weapons in public. (Yes, of course some people still illegally carry but if they're discovered the punishment for doing so is severe; and there's a recent case of someone who didn't know about the law being punished, but that's a separate problem)

EDIT: I should say that my state doesn't entirely ban carrying guns on paper, but in practice it does. It's a "may issue" state, and the requirements to obtain a permit to carry are strict.

 

[Timeless]

See if you can spot the difference. These people weren't shot and killed while carrying a real weapon:

http://fox11online.com/2014/07/30/open-carry-incident-leads-to-changes-in-county-policy/
http://kdvr.com/2014/08/01/aurora-t...th-shotgun-videotapes-encounters-with-police/
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/05/man_acting_irrationally_while.html#incart_2box
http://www.kpho.com/story/26134030/pd-phoenix-doctor-points-rifle-at-woman-teen-in-sky-harbor

The last man was arrested, but not killed. He "pointed an AR-15 assault rifle in the direction of a mother and her teenage daughter inside one of the busiest terminals at Sky Harbor International Airport on Friday".

Oh! He's black! Case closed.

 

[JBourne]

Well, I wasn't there, but the situation seems like one of two things.

Either some idiot cop with an itchy trigger finger killed someone who was just holding a toy.

If so, he needs to be fired/charged

or


Some idiot guy was waving a toy gun at customers.

If so, it's sad but justified.

Yeah. Thankfully for everyone, there's gotta be footage from all the security cameras Wal-Mart has. If he was actually waving it around in a threatening manner, we'll see.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Right from the article. In the OP.

Thank the blue book legal gods that statements in a news article are not considered admissible evidence in a court of law.

 

[Goro Majima]

I think there's a lot more gray area here than the kid who was gunned down by the police for stealing a candy bar.

If he was going around threatening people with a gun that looks real, regardless if it's a toy or not, that's messed up. No one that fears for their life is going to stop and ask if it's a real gun or not. Also given the number of mass shootings we've had in public areas in recent years, this was probably not a very smart thing to do.

I think the video evidence should clear most of this up.

Edit: Nevermind, read the OP where he states that the gun wasn't real. That's messed up.

 

[Mass Effect]

What? When did I mention race? :/

Maybe things are different in the US. But here in the UK, there is a strict rule on carrying replica guns. And it has/will get a lethal response from armed police.

Ah, and now everything makes sense. In many places in the US, there are no such laws for carrying replica guns. Regardless, it's irrelevant because Ohio is an open-carry state.

Look, we all know why this happened. He was black. Simple as.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's amazing how many people missed this. Gaf gonna' gaf,

Anonymous unsourced reports, likely from the same racists who admitted to following a black man holding a toy gun in a Walmart. Furthermore, he wasn't waving it at the cops if his girlfriend's statement is to be believed. She heard him say 'It's not real!' then gunshots, then commands from the officers to get on the ground.

It's weird how high your confidence is in unnamed, unquoted sources condemning a black man to death by police shooting.

 

[Stet]

Thank the blue book legal gods that statements in a news article are not considered admissible evidence in a court of law.

Considering the "waving it around at people" justification was taken from a statement in a news article...

 

[Red Chocobo]

In fairness though, we have a really different Police force over here, and the stats say otherwise on getting a lethal response from armed police - over the years our Police force hasn't used lethal force all that much at all.

UK Cops have actually killed quite a few people thinking that they were carrying guns.

From one guy carrying a toilet flush handle. To a guy carrying a chair leg that looked a bit like a shotgun.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Right from the article. In the OP.

You need eyewitness accounts I would say.

 

[The Cowboy]

Are you both from the UK? This is rather important for discussion.

I am and from his post he also states he is, that was our point - over here we have very different policy's on things like replica guns and armed responses/police shootings.

 

[munchie64]

I think toy guns at least have to have an orange tip where I live to stop shit like this.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Considering the "waving it around at people" justification was taken from a statement in a news article...

I think both sides are being a bit obtuse. News articles are hardly conclusive or trustworthy sources of evidence for what really happened. Let this play out before screaming foul.

 

[EscoBlades]

Anyone defended the cop(s) yet? That train is never late.

 

[BronsonLee]

Anonymous unsourced reports, likely from the same racists who admitted to following a black man holding a toy gun in a Walmart. Furthermore, he wasn't waving it at the cops if his girlfriend's statement is to be believed. She heard him say 'It's not real!' then gunshots, then commands from the officers to get on the ground.

It's weird how high your confidence is in unnamed, unquoted sources condemning a black man to death by police shooting.

It isn't even anonymous, it's the same people who admitted to following him around/called the cops on him.

I really think the cops got the order wrong, you're supposed to tell them to get on the ground first

I am and from his post he also states he is, that was our point - over here we have very different policy's on things like replica guns and armed responses/police shootings.

I'll lay out the differences for you both then.

In Ohio, you're actually allowed to open carry, which means carry a gun in public places. If you've read news articles about people carrying guns into Starbucks to boycott them, the same law applies.

The only thing that would make this hinky is if he was straight up pointing it at people, and the only source we have on that is the couple that followed him around and called the cops on him. It's infinitely more likely he bought the gun, then went to check out some games while tinkering with it.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Because they shot him first...

Good lord, how could you possibly know this?!?

I understand the emotional response, but most of you are applying the same biases towards these cops in your rush to judgement that you are claiming that the cops applied to this man in the heat of the moment.

Why not wait for the facts to come out before making sweeping statements about these "pigs?"

GAF can be more hostile towards cops than just about any other group of people.

 

[The Technomancer]

Thank the blue book legal gods that statements in a news article are not considered admissible evidence in a court of law.

The same vague statements are what people are using as the basis for "he was pointing it at people" as well

 

[The Cowboy]

UK Cops have actually killed quite a few people thinking that they were carrying guns.

From one guy carrying a toilet flush handle. To a guy carrying a chair leg that looked a bit like a shotgun.

In strait numbers sure (and even them the numbers aren't that high), but when taken over the years our (UK) Police shooting stats are pretty dam incredible (in how low they are).

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I think toy guns at least have to have an orange tip where I live to stop shit like this.

It's not a toy. It fires real projectiles.

Serious how many people have to die like this? Cops are out of control.

I can't really make a decision on fault
Here until we get more info.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

The same vague statements are what people are using as the basis for "he was pointing it at people" as well

Aye, don't it seem a bit contrary of the people crying murder to suddenly ignore counter-veiling news articles? They are both on the same level of evidential value; crap.

 

[Korigama]

Thank the blue book legal gods that statements in a news article are not considered admissible evidence in a court of law.

You're serious in believing that what the last person to speak with him alive said has and will carry no weight, aren't you?

Good lord, how could you possibly know this?!?

I understand the emotional response, but most of you are applying the same biases towards these cops in your rush to judgement that you are claiming that the cops applied to this man in the heat of the moment.

Why not wait for the facts to come out before making sweeping statements about these "pigs?"

GAF can be more hostile towards cops than just about any other group of people.

Did I call them anything? Am I being hostile? No? Then I don't see why you're getting defensive because I choose to question their judgment.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

If he was going around threatening people with a gun that looks real, regardless if it's a toy or not, that's messed up.

"If" is the operative word here. The quotes about "he was aiming it at people" come from a a husband and wife who were following him through the store. It is possible for people to have poor judgement and preconceptions about situations/others.

If you have to use "if" in your assessment of this guy's actions, then you can't pass any kind of judgment.

I think both sides are being a bit obtuse. News articles are hardly conclusive or trustworthy sources of evidence for what really happened. Let this play out before screaming foul.

I hear this a lot in these threads, even when the situation is so very clear.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Well, I wasn't there, but the situation seems like one of two things.

Either some idiot cop with an itchy trigger finger killed someone who was just holding a toy.

If so, he needs to be fired/charged

or


Some idiot guy was waving a toy gun at customers.

If so, it's sad but justified.

how is it justified
a mistake/misunderstanding equals a death sentence?
What a horrible crime he committed, a real menace to society, good thing he is dead?

Every single time in these threads a part of gaf show how little regard they have for a human life

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

You're serious in believing that what the last person to speak with him alive said has and will carry no weight, aren't you?

It didn't in the George Zimmerman case...

 

[TheChocolateWar]

You're serious in believing that what the last person to speak with him alive said has and will carry no weight, aren't you?

The article itself is hearsay. The statement by the last person to see him alive is hearsay as well. It could possibly fall under a hearsay exception, but we simply do not have enough evidence of what truly happened from a reputable source to know the value of that hearsay evidence.

 

[Ponn]

I think toy guns at least have to have an orange tip where I live to stop shit like this.

I always thought they were required to. I imported my MP Megatron awhile ago and it had to have an orange cap plugged in to be imported.

Regardless this was horrible in a store where they sell toy guns and real guns.

I wonder if the open carry gun people that have been beating their drums are going to have anything to say or protest this. Why do I get this feeling they are going to be strangely quiet about this.

 

[BronsonLee]

It didn't in the George Zimmerman case...

That was a bad combination of the DA reaching in terms of the charges she brought and the extreme amount of money Zimmerman had to spend on lawyers.

 

[Timeless]

If Walmart didn't look over their reviews before posting, I could actually post this for all to see.

 

[MoodyFog]

I'm not American but have some American friends, and when the subject of black people and the police appeared in a discussion with them they said something like "in the 90s the situation was very bad, the police was notorious for being racist and very unfair to black people, but it has gotten better since then", or something link that.

But when I hear about these stories it doesn't feel like it.. I mean that may be a naive question but how in the hell can you have a country that on the surface seems less and less racist (more and more black superstars, a very influential "black culture", hell even a black president), and yet so many problems when it comes to the police ?

 

[TheContact]

I think toy guns at least have to have an orange tip where I live to stop shit like this.

Depends on your definition of "toy". A toy gun meant for a child is going to be vibrantly colored and will have an orange tip at the end. Airsoft guns, also considered toys (like paintball guns) do not have this restriction. Most are actually manufactured to be identical to their real life counter-parts

 

[nailbombxx]

"Good guys with guns"

 

[JBourne]

Christ, that article is sad. I didn't know he was talking to his mother when it went down.

Wouldn't the police be quick to release the security footage if they felt it was justified? Seems shady as shit that they're sitting on it.

 

[Fred-87]

It is very unfortunate. And such toyguns should be banned!!

And people saying fucking cops and such.. dont be foolish. Such easy to blame. Its not aaaaalways the cops fault. It makes you seem really dumb to be just shouting that without thinking.

The man was waving the gun. And he was told to drop the gun, he did not listened. It was not that they came in guns blazing. Imagine what you would do if you was a cop and saw a man waving what seemed like a real gun at people. And you tell him to drop the gun and he does not do it... then what? Im sure you would be afriad for your and other peoples live.

Also i dont think its the mans fault for not dropping the weapon, he was probely very very confused because he didnt know what came over him

Its a damn shame all.

 

[Kettch]

I was wondering which way the "2nd amendment is sacred!"/"Defend cops in all instances!" crowd would go, but I think it's pretty clear.

 

[Axial]

The couple which was interviewed claiming the guy was pointing the rifle at other people was the same couple that called the cops. Dunno why, but I don't belive a single word they're saying, their statements sound so guilty.

 

[mcz117chief]

Hot damn, this is almost surreal. Here in Czech Republic you see airsoft players walking around the streets with rifles and full gear and nobody bats an eye. I see dozens of people running around with medieval gear and weapons and nobody gives a damn, especially not the police.

Are people really so afraid in America that thinks like this happen ?

 

[CrankyJay]

Christ, that article is sad. I didn't know he was talking to his mother when it went down.

Wouldn't the police be quick to release the security footage if they felt it was justified? Seems shady as shit that they're sitting on it.

"Ongoing investigation" will be their goto response from their play book.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Christ, that article is sad. I didn't know he was talking to his mother when it went down.

Wouldn't the police be quick to release the security footage if they felt it was justified? Seems shady as shit that they're sitting on it.

Yes, it is horribly shady that they internal affairs is taking the time to professionally review the case for the district attorney to see if charges should properly be brought. How dare legal minds spend more than twenty four hours looking over a piece of evidence to determine the appropriate course of action before trying the person before the court of public opinion. It is the height of professional negligence!

-_-