Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart
- Thread starter JohnDoe
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Nobody's fault it is, as far as i can see. But i was not there, so i cant say for certain. But people easely blaming the cops also cant say for certain.
What i do can say however, is if somebody is waving what seems like a gun at people and does not drop it if i ask him to. I would shoot to if i was a cop because i would be afriad i will be shot. Thats why im glad im not a cop and would never have to be in such situation.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I have no idea.
But I assume eyewitness accounts said he was waving the gun around(might be exaggerated or not completely inaccurate) and his wife or the mother of his children said what she said(might be exaggerated or inaccurate).
It's the investigator's responsibility to piece together what's credible.
If I had to guess, he was nonchalantly moving the gun around while talking on the phone and it unnerved shoppers and when the cops got there, they told him to drop the gun or whatever and he paused and they shot him.
The last part is a tough one as he was probably like "the hell???" as it wasn't a real gun but I would have dropped it if it was a GI Joe Figure and they told me to guns drawn.
Hopefully they have video and/or legitimate eyewitness accounts.
I still don't get why the fuck a couple or people would follow him around the store if they thought it was a real gun, that's not human instinct unless you're a Navy Seal.
Banana Aeon
Member
God damn it.
And people ask why we don't trust the police. This shit is fucking dumb. We live in a nation of fear, with a murder happy police, who never get punished, especially if his skin is tanned or brown. I don't understand why or how this shit keeps happening, but I'm tired. There needs to be a nationwide police reform, and badly.
Make these thugs wear cameras on them at all times. If the camera breaks, and they don't report it in a timely manner, bench em. Actually put them through a criminal trial. Focus on teaching nonlethal responses, rather than jump straight to killing.
But nothing will change. He'll get his paid leave, come back, with nothing done. And the man dead will be buried, justice never achieved.
And people ask why we don't trust the police. This shit is fucking dumb. We live in a nation of fear, with a murder happy police, who never get punished, especially if his skin is tanned or brown. I don't understand why or how this shit keeps happening, but I'm tired. There needs to be a nationwide police reform, and badly.
Make these thugs wear cameras on them at all times. If the camera breaks, and they don't report it in a timely manner, bench em. Actually put them through a criminal trial. Focus on teaching nonlethal responses, rather than jump straight to killing.
But nothing will change. He'll get his paid leave, come back, with nothing done. And the man dead will be buried, justice never achieved.
CouldBeWorse
Member
What's the difference between alerting security and calling the cops? Security just would have called the cops. They aren't going to risk their ass to confront someone if they truly believe there to be a risk, nor should they.
The cops are responsible for their actions, not the people who called the cops. What went down was between the cops and the victim.
Right now we don't know either way how he was acting, so everyone is making assumptions. You have the concerned citizens in one corner and the victim's girlfriend in the other. It's all hearsay at this point, isn't it?
the footage will be mysteriously misplaced
His mom's statement about what she heard over the phone is pretty damning for the police.
Surely security would have had eyes on a person in the store to follow him around enough to know he just got the toy gun from inside the store.
Which tells me if they can't even do this they need to change their policy about letting these things roam freely about their store. Either don't sell them at all or box them up and carry them up to the front for the customer to prevent this type of shit.
KidGalactus
Member
It's good to have goals.
Same here. If the police don't release it, the family will probably have to sue to get it released.
The people who think the cops didn't kill him aren't a minority and haven't had to deal with police, especially when they are looking to make the big bust or some bullshit. I've had cops jump out of cars and slam me against fences, roughing me up and not telling me what is going on, when there is a shooting with in ten miles of my neighborhood and they are racing to be the ones to make the collar.
The worse is when they are plain clothes so you don't even know they are cops. You think its some random group of guys coming to kill you for no reason, so you run when you see them or if they catch from jump when they get out of the car(s) you fight back. The fight back until they tell you they are the police. And you better stop fighting back when you hear the word police or else you'll be in for some shit. And in the end they say, "sorry, you fit the description of the shooter we are looking for, stay out of trouble."
The worse is when they are plain clothes so you don't even know they are cops. You think its some random group of guys coming to kill you for no reason, so you run when you see them or if they catch from jump when they get out of the car(s) you fight back. The fight back until they tell you they are the police. And you better stop fighting back when you hear the word police or else you'll be in for some shit. And in the end they say, "sorry, you fit the description of the shooter we are looking for, stay out of trouble."
We would at the very least send a security officer to scope out the situation while the person in dispatch checks the cameras.
We do not, generally, want the police involved if we can avoid it.
I'm not talking about in a court of law.
CouldBeWorse
Member
Absolutely agree that they need to change their policy. This whole situation could have been so easily avoided.
KidGalactus
Member
People are dubious of police officers in these situations, because police officers have been proven to be biased against black americans, and have a notorious history of maiming, and killing black americans with little, or no reason to do so.
Personally, I think that they have a lot of unilateral power, and that a high degree of scrutiny is warranted, if they want to keep that power.
it's getting tougher and tougher to discern young white male who lacks empathy vs actual racist idiot
BronsonLee
Member
Something of note, security would likely know it was a toy gun, since they sell it in the store. They would more than likely recognize it.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Coroner declared it a homicide. That's a good thing, right?
Expected. One person killing another is always classified as a homicide by a coroner.
TheChocolateWar
Member
Doesn't mean much. Even when it is a justified shooting, that just means it is legally labeled as a privileged homicide. Still a homicide, but the cop was acting under color of law.
Spring-Loaded
Member
"If" is being used a lot here.
You have hearsay stating that he was waving it around; a single phone call in what is undoubtedly a populated store. Ohio is an open-carry state. You can walk around with a gun out in stores. The people who called are fallible; they could be paranoid and make incorrect assumptions about what thy're seeing. Should someone run the risk of getting shot by police because of an assumption, even when they're doing nothing wrong? A conclusion that relies on an "if" statement shouldn't even exist.
And the larceny comment has to be a troll. I've been sitting here trying to figure out if that's the case for a few minutes now.
"If." If he was waving it around and pointing it at people.
You say people can't say anything for certain about this situation, even after the fact. The police and the people who called 911 made an assumption and never considered that the guy was purchasing a gun/toy gun from Wal-Mart, a chain of stories that sells guns. If we can't pass judgment on the situation, then how was there enough evidence to justify immediate deadly force in an open-carry state?
A killing is always a homicide. Doesn't mean anything.
White guys open carry real weapons in department store, live to tell about it.
Black guy does the same thing with a toy gun, is killed by cops.
I wonder why...
A bunch of white guys waving their guns around a Walmart.......
rykomatsu
Member
Carrying, not waving
TheChocolateWar
Member
I am using If statements because I am not foolish enough to think I know what is going on here. I do not have all the evidence. I was not there. I do not trust the conflicting newspaper articles. I am reserving judgment like a model citizen. I am analyzing the legal implications of the asserted facts of both sides. If the man was pointing the gun at people, aggravated assault, cops called. If the man picked up the gun, move around the store with it, and treated it as his own, then a reasonable person could conclude a larceny was afoot, and police calling was justified.
Do I know these facts to be true? Nope.
And your right, and that is a real problem. What i have a problem with also, is that people already have their judgment ready and are such sure that the cop killed him on purpose. Mob-mentality is what i call that and i find that dangerous and scary. Lets first find out what exactly happened with evidence and then condemn them. Maybe this police offer has a good personality and is in deep shit now because of a horrible incident and its maken worse by people calling him a murderer. If evidence finds out that he is a croocked (correct word? English is not my native language) cop then he should go to prison.
MikeOfTheLivingDead
Grapetastic!
It just means a confirmation that he died of wounds inflicted by another person, which is obvious and means nothing in terms of any legal action.
Hey I saw what I saw, looked like waving to me.
Master Thespian
Member
Appropriate.
CouldBeWorse
Member
The thread title should really be changed. Toy guns can't kill small animals. Air rifles can.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Alligatorjandro
Banned
But those are real guns
irfaanator
Banned
damn that actually is like 5 minutes from where I live. Beavercreek is pretty much the nice area in Dayton, and I know they had an earlier issue with approving bus stops in that area.
Did you know that cops in the US shoot and kill a person and quickly move in to HAND CUFF the dead body??? I mean even if the person they shot was bleeding to death, the last thing they will do is make a run for it. FFS yes this is 'merica.
KidGalactus
Member
DoktorEvil
Banned
Why are a good number of these guns owners insistent on being complete assholes in public?
They make the 2nd Amendment look REALLY bad...
Sir Blaming
Member
I feel sick with some of the posts here more than the article, what are you people thinking? "Oh he was pointing a fake gun at people, he deserve the death sentence!". What the fuck? Is this how we run this world now? Guilty until proven innocence? Oh wait, you can't prove your innocence cause your dead!
Fuck this shit man. I think we should just stop making this kind of threads cause it breed stupid arguments that I have never seen in my life.
Fuck this shit man. I think we should just stop making this kind of threads cause it breed stupid arguments that I have never seen in my life.
Extra Sauce
Member
Both the person who called 911 and the cops who killed him are biased in claiming he was waving the toy gun at customers. I need more to believe he actually did that.
Maybe some people just enjoy projectile weapons but don't like the idea of having the power to kill a person?
Not an American and have no interest in guns, but I could see the appeal of toy guns like that.
Well depends, if the cops saw right at the scene the guy waving the gun, then they and everyone around them would be in danger, atleast that is a correct feeling to get. If they only heared through the phone the guy was allegedly waving the gun but was just holding the gun downwards at the scene when the cops showed up, they should have pressed harder to make him put the gun down and not shoot. But even then as a cop i would be scared as hell because the guy did not dropped the weapon after i ordered him too.
But im done discussing this because it makes me sad, its sad enough this guy lost his life over something such stupid. Fucking toyguns who look such realistically should be banned.
SenorArdilla
Member
Because Obama is trying to take away their guns.
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