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[BronsonLee]

Christ, that article is sad. I didn't know he was talking to his mother when it went down.

Wouldn't the police be quick to release the security footage if they felt it was justified? Seems shady as shit that they're sitting on it.

Way, way, way too early to release anything like that.

Fake Edit: Aaaaand Chocobo got peaced.

 

[Vicetrailia]

WOW!

I wonder what the Wal-Mart security footage would actually show, it's a given that it exists. I'm not concerned about the witnesses now because I see huge potential faulty testimony.

 

[Speevy]

how is it justified
a mistake/misunderstanding equals a death sentence?
What a horrible crime he committed, a real menace to society, good thing he is dead?

Every single time in these threads a part of gaf show how little regard they have for a human life

If you point a toy gun at someone and they think it's real, you're causing them to fear for their life. At that moment, they think they're about to die. That fear becomes panic, and in that panic, they reach out to anyone they think will help them.

Imagine if I ran into a school with a toy gun and started ordering people to get on their knees or lie down. Would you be bothered if the cops shot me?

If you're waving a gun at people, making them think it's real, you probably should expect to get shot.

Also, if this is what happened (again, I wasn't there), he would have had several minutes to put down the gun. The reactions from the customers should have tipped him off, if that's what happened.

I have a healthy regard for human life, both his and the scared customers.

 

[negitoro7]

Truly despicable. Since I live in an area without much Black representation (except Bish), I've always wondered how Black police officers feel about certain White colleagues seemingly gunning down Black victims?

 

[A.D. Skinner]

One thing I noticed here is the only thing the person on the phone heard the police say is "Get in the ground!" And nothing else?

It gives me the impression, together with the rest of the article saying he was pointing it at people, that maybe he said "It's not real" to someone who he spooked in the store, and the police turned up at that point and saw someone pointing a gun at someone else.

Regardless, very clearly handled the wrong way.

Also, as far as other speaking of people carrying air soft or real guns in the street and no one is scared, is because they assume it isn't real because guns aren't legal, and if they are, then...it's not America. That's the best I've got for that reasoning. Legal guns don't cause as much as a controversy else where as it does in America. The public in other countries don't push for gun rights as much as in America.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Also i dont think its the mans fault for not dropping the weapon, he was probely very very confused because he didnt know what came over him

Who's fault is it?

 

[Septimus]

This is just a hypothesis but if the dude was on the phone while not only being killed but before when the pointing at customers allegation happened, he probably wasn't paying much attention.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Hot damn, this is almost surreal. Here in Czech Republic you see airsoft players walking around the streets with rifles and full gear and nobody bats an eye. I see dozens of people running around with medieval gear and weapons and nobody gives a damn, especially not the police.

Are people really so afraid in America that thinks like this happen ?

There are shootings all the time.

Whether in schools, etc...

I don't think the fear is completely unjustified but the media created this monster by glamourizing actual real killers which leads to more real killers which maybe doesn't relate exactly to this but I don't think it's stupid for people to fear someone waving a realistic looking gun in a public place.

I don't know what exactly went down, mind you.

Could be corrupt and/or incompetent cops or it could have been an appropriate response.

Heck, there was a shooting at a mall my mom went to not long ago, the shit needs to stop.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Was the gun in the package?

 

[quik killa]

Hopefully there is adequate video evidence so that this situation can be resolved.

 

[CrankyJay]

Was the gun in the package?

Doesn't sound like it, unless they have clear clamshell type packaging.

 

[studyguy]

The fact that he was talking to his mother is some real sad stuff.

 

[CrankyJay]

The fact that he was talking to his mother is some real sad stuff.

That, and the lady who died and was getting married. Tragic all around.

 

[Veldin]

Was the gun in the package?

Even if it was in a wrapping or a box, my cynical side says he would've been murdered anyway.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

The couple which was interviewed claiming the guy was pointing the rifle at other people was the same couple that called the cops. Dunno why, but I don't belive a single word they're saying, their statements sound so guilty.

Guilty of what?

Why are we blaming them again? They legitimate thought other people could be on danger and called the cops. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Do you legitimately believe that their intentions where to lie to get this man killed? Surely they feel awful about the situation, too, knowing that it was ultimately a tragic misunderstanding.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

The fact that he was talking to his mother is some real sad stuff.

The mother of his children..

 

[ReiGun]

*Guns drawn and pointed*
"Sir, drop the weapon"
"Of course, officers. It's only a toy, anyway"
"Okay, be more careful in future, it's quite realistic and people thought it was real"

OR

*Guns drawn*
"OH SHIT HE'S GOT A GUN, SHOOT TO KILL. I REPEAT, SHOOT TO KILL."

This is why it's so fucking inexcusable. Words could have resulted in a man not being killed. For fuck's sake, police/America/humans.

The first likely would have happened were he not black.

America, everybody.

 

[JBourne]

Way, way, way too early to release anything like that.

Fake Edit: Aaaaand Chocobo got peaced.

Hope it doesn't have to wait until it goes to court.

This is just a hypothesis but if the dude was on the phone while not only being killed but before when the pointing at customers allegation happened, he probably wasn't paying much attention.

That really makes the couple that was following him seem suspect. It doesn't make sense that he would walk around while talking to his mom, pointing a toy gun at people. Everything the couple said is weird as shit. They were warning people who were walking in his direction while they followed him? This doesn't sound like some chaotic situation that would lead to any sort of justifiable shooting.

I think the security footage will paint a very different picture.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Please tell me this is satire...

 

[B.O.O.M]

Maybe I should move to another place once I'm done with my grad program

 

[CrankyJay]

Guilty of what?

Why are we blaming them again? They legitimate thought other people could be on danger and called the cops. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Or their observations could have been skewed or embellished if they were prejudiced. I mean, they followed him through the store and he didn't fire a single shot, it kept clicking, so wouldn't they put two and two together that maybe it's not real or not loaded? Why did they decide to play hero when they could have ran to the front and alerted security? They escalated the situation.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

It is very unfortunate. And such toyguns should be banned!!

And people saying fucking cops and such.. dont be foolish. Such easy to blame. Its not aaaaalways the cops fault. It makes you seem really dumb to be just shouting that without thinking.

The man was waving the gun. And he was told to drop the gun, he did not listened. It was not that they came in guns blazing. Imagine what you would do if you was a cop and saw a man waving what seemed like a real gun at people. And you tell him to drop the gun and he does not do it... then what? Im sure you would be afriad for your and other peoples live.

Also i dont think its the mans fault for not dropping the weapon, he was probely very very confused because he didnt know what came over him

Its a damn shame all.

Or an exaggerated 911 call resulted in police shooting first and asking questions later? You have no clue either.

It'll be interesting to see what the video footage shows.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Hope it doesn't have to wait until it goes to court.


That really makes the couple that was following him seem suspect. It doesn't make sense that he would walk around while talking to his mom, pointing a toy gun at people. Everything the couple said is weird as shit. They were warning people who were walking in his direction while they followed him? This doesn't sound like some chaotic situation that would lead to any sort of justifiable shooting.

I think the security footage will paint a very different picture.

Yeah, why would anyone follow a guy they thought had a real gun in the first place???

 

[studyguy]

The mother of his children..

Whoops seems I skimmed past that. Either way still horrible way to be remembered in your last moments.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Guilty of what?

Why are we blaming them again? They legitimate thought other people could be on danger and called the cops. Nothing wrong with that at all.

And followed him around the store...and warned other shoppers to stay away from him...

Guilty of making a not-dangerous situation seem so dangerous cops used lethal force.

 

[SimpleGamer]

Hot damn, this is almost surreal. Here in Czech Republic you see airsoft players walking around the streets with rifles and full gear and nobody bats an eye. I see dozens of people running around with medieval gear and weapons and nobody gives a damn, especially not the police.

Are people really so afraid in America that thinks like this happen ?

Their afraid of a black male with any resemblance of a deadly weapon, such as candy or a toy gun.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Why should we believe he was waving it around?

 

[KidGalactus]

Guilty of what?

Why are we blaming them again? They legitimate thought other people could be on danger and called the cops. Nothing wrong with that at all.

The question where they are involved is one of whether or not they might have been unreasonably suspicious of this guy (because of his race), and panicked hysterically.

If that was the case (and the guy wasn't causing a problem, they only perceived that he was), then the concern that you cite, and defend actually becomes the problem.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Aye, don't it seem a bit contrary of the people crying murder to suddenly ignore counter-veiling news articles? They are both on the same level of evidential value; crap.

You can't form a solid legal case from a news article, but given basic pattern recognition skills and knowledge of history you can make a solid educated guess about what happened, which I presume is the basis of most of the reactions here. Surely if it bears out in video evidence that he was rampaging through the walmart with a loaded BB gun, kicking baby strollers over, screaming about how he's going to kill everybody in the store while the police are there then yeah the sentiment around here will reverse. Most people aren't that unreasonable.

 

[Volimar]

Really really really need to see this video. Guessing police are scouring the footage for instances of him pointing it at people.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Or their observations could have been skewed or embellished if they were prejudiced. I mean, they followed him through the store and he didn't fire a single shot, it kept clicking, so wouldn't they put two and two together that maybe it's not real or not loaded? Why did they decide to play hero when they could have ran to the front and alerted security? They escalated the situation.

Even knowing the gun wasn't real, they were more than justified in calling the police. Aggravated assault is a thing my friend. If someone came up to me with what looked like a toy gun and pretended to fire (not saying that happened here) I would billy club them.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Why should we believe he was waving it around?

If you're not going to believe some people, you can't believe any people.

 

[x Misogi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILCNAln_7Z4#t=2m47s

 

[CrankyJay]

Ronald Ritchie was a former marine and couldn't even tell the gun wasn't real. How detailed are these replicas?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

You can't form a solid legal case from a news article, but given basic pattern recognition skills and knowledge of history you can make a solid educated guess about what happened, which I presume is the basis of most of the reactions here. Surely if it bears out in video evidence that he was rampaging through the walmart with a loaded BB gun, kicking baby strollers over, screaming about how he's going to kill everybody in the store while the police are there then yeah the sentiment around here will reverse. Most people aren't that unreasonable.

Boss Hogg thinks this is an isolated incident, apparently.

If you're not going to believe some people, you can't believe any people.

What do you think happened?

 

[Volimar]

Even knowing the gun wasn't real, they were more than justified in calling the police. Aggravated assault is a thing my friend. If someone came up to me with what looked like a toy gun and pretended to fire (not saying that happened here) I would billy club them.

You'd billy club someone for pretending to shoot you with a toy gun that you know is a toy gun?

Yes, aggravated assault is a thing.

 

[pompidu]

Ronald Ritchie was a former marine and couldn't even tell the gun wasn't real. How detailed are these replicas?

Was posted earlier.

http://www.walmart.com/msharbor/ip/Crosman-MK-177-.17-Caliber-Air-Rifle/23795252

Looks pretty real.

 

[JBourne]

Yeah, why would anyone follow a guy they thought had a real gun in the first place???

And warning people to get away from him. If he was actually acting threatening, no one would need a warning. He was on the phone, talking to his mom.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

You'd billy club someone for pretending to shoot you with a toy gun that you know is a toy gun?

Yes, aggravated assault is a thing.

Yup, because aggravated assault is a felony, and I am allowed to use non-lethal force to effectuate a citizen's arrest. And then I would sue them out of house and board, seeking 350,000 in punitive damages alone.

 

[KidGalactus]

Even knowing the gun wasn't real, they were more than justified in calling the police. Aggravated assault is a thing my friend. If someone came up to me with what looked like a toy gun and pretended to fire (not saying that happened here) I would billy club them.

What? Are you seriously saying that even if the people knew the guy had a toy gun, they should certainly have called the police?

Are you Chocobo's Alt?

 

[CrankyJay]

Even knowing the gun wasn't real, they were more than justified in calling the police. Aggravated assault is a thing my friend. If someone came up to me with what looked like a toy gun and pretended to fire (not saying that happened here) I would billy club them.

Not one other customer drew the same conclusion as these two people. What does that tell you? Either they could tell the gun wasn't real or this guy wasn't pointing it at anyone.

 

[Sub_Level]

Cop should be fired. A mistake like that needs to cost something.

I think toy guns at least have to have an orange tip where I live to stop shit like this.

Nope.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ng-bangers-painting-orange-tips-on-real-guns/

(ignore the heavy pro-gun aspect of website, it's just the first link I grabbed)
edit: link is down but basically you can paint a real gun's tip orange too obviously.

 

[Kinsei]

Is there anyway to force the police to release the security cam footage?

 

[TheChocolateWar]

What? Are you seriously saying that even if the people knew the guy had a toy gun, they should certainly have called the police?

Are you Chocobo's Alt?

I support everyone's rights to be safe and secure in society, not just the idiots who choose to go around committing intentional torts. Yes, police should be called if you are violating a law. Plain and simple.

Not one other customer drew the same conclusion as these two people. What does that tell you? Either they could tell the gun wasn't real or this guy wasn't pointing it at anyone.

Not saying that is what happened here. Quote en quote

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I support everyone's rights to be safe and secure in society, not just the idiots who choose to go around committing intentional torts. Yes, police should be called if you are violating a law. Plain and simple.

So this guy was violating a law?

 

[dripdripsplash]

*Guns drawn and pointed*
"Sir, drop the weapon"
"Of course, officers. It's only a toy, anyway"
"Okay, be more careful in future, it's quite realistic and people thought it was real"

OR

*Guns drawn*
"OH SHIT HE'S GOT A GUN, SHOOT TO KILL. I REPEAT, SHOOT TO KILL."

This is why it's so fucking inexcusable. Words could have resulted in a man not being killed. For fuck's sake, police/America/humans.

This is the problem and not that there is toy guns that look like real guns.

 

[Volimar]

Yup, because aggravated assault is a felony, and I am allowed to use non-lethal force to effectuate a citizen's arrest. And then I would sue them out of house and board, seeking 350,000 in punitive damages alone.

Way to stand your ground.

 

[Stet]

Yup, because aggravated assault is a felony, and I am allowed to use non-lethal force to effectuate a citizen's arrest. And then I would sue them out of house and board, seeking 350,000 in punitive damages alone.

Then what would you do?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Then what would you do?

Put a stop to those duke boys once and for all

 

[TheChocolateWar]

So this guy was violating a law?

If the following facts are true; He was carrying around a toy gun pointing it at people, or even alternatively; if he were carrying around a toy gun that had not yet purchased, then yes, the cops should be called. First, for aggravated assault. Second, for larceny.

Then what would you do?

Probably file a judgment lien on all his property?