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Could UFC champion Ronda Rousey be competitive against male fighters?

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C

cdyhybrid

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Why can't people appreciate Rousey for what she is instead of trying to say what if this and what if that.

I think she would have plenty of competition from women if the division wasn't basically half cooked and trying to scrape together fighters.
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There's nothing else to talk about when it comes to her, unfortunately. Severe lack of competition. If she fights and beats Cyborg she might as well retire because there will be nothing left for her to do.

SmokeMaxX said:
I think we're arguing in circles and shitting up the thread so I'll just say my last remarks. There's probably some miscommunication between us. I don't know for sure she'd win. I just want it to be acknowledged that she would dominate him on the ground and that it should be her gameplan to play to her strengths. If she gets punched, of course she's going down. Her winning is highly dependent on her taking him down. You make it seem that there's close to zero percent chance of that happening while I think it's at least around 50% chance.
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You're essentially right with your interpretation of our argument. I'm 99% sure that if Ronda takes him down, Floyd will lose, since they're basically the same size and she obviously holds all the cards when it comes to technique and experience in that situation. I just don't think Floyd would let that happen.
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
HTupolev said:
This isn't a knock against women. It's just the obvious result of higher relative muscle density and a lack of boobs.
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Um.. uh.. um... women are capable of the same muscle density and lack of boobs as men are.

Actually, being flat chested is very common among female athletes. And women are able to have pecs, rather than boobs, just like men. Though it's less common for female body builders to have pecs and chests shaped like men, because many female body builders get breast implants. Because there is social pressure for female body builders to still be "feminine" and have curves.

After all, boobs are just body fat. And so athletic women are going to have less body fat, and smaller breasts or flatter chests. I'm a fan of female body builders, and I think that women can be just as muscular as any man. Though women are discouraged from doing so.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
CrocMother said:
Don't think it's fair to say a woman wouldn't have a chance, she would be more than capable of dealing a knock out blow if she got into perfect position.

Also, Mayweather isn't an MMA fighter so that would be a rather large disadvantage would it not?

This is a strange question, really.
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Her perceived strength is somewhat skewed by the women's division being rather sparse meaning she gets fed mismatches more frequently.

At best, she's still at a significant disadvantage against a male with similar fitness. She may pick up some wins, but every fight would be unquestionably stacked against her.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Yes. In a weight class, proportional strength is no match for leverage. that's not an opinion, it's science. So if she got into a hold situation quickly, with technique, it's not even an argument - she absolutely COULD. Otherwise cranes would stop working tomorrow. I have no idea why people would even dispute that.

If you want to argue, keep it to individual opponents, but the fact remains she's as fast in grapple situations as most MMA males and if she gets the advantage, it's a shoe in.

I'm not saying she'd win most fights, I'm saying it's clear she COULD do it. And against some male fighters in her weight class, easily.

this isn't Bruce Lee versus Tyson (Tyson) - it's Bruce Lee versus Bruce Lee.

And yes, males would have several physical advantages.
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Um.. uh.. um... women are capable of the same muscle density and lack of boobs as men are.

Actually, being flat chested is very common among female athletes. And women are able to have pecs, rather than boobs, just like men. Though it's less common for female body builders to have pecs and chests shaped like men, because many female body builders get breast implants. Because there is social pressure for female body builders to still be "feminine" and have curves.

After all, boobs are just body fat. And so athletic women are going to have less body fat, and smaller breasts or flatter chests. I'm a fan of female body builders, and I think that women can be just as muscular as any man. Though women are discouraged from doing so.
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No. They cannot.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
Pimpwerx said:
How? The power of sheer will? Something will have to change in the physical structure of women in order to propel them as fast as the men. There are limits to the human body. The reason the men exceed the women is because the male body is better built for athletics. You're dream is just as dream unless humans evolve so there's no difference between male and females muscles and bones. PEACE.
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IMO any sport that requires technique gives women the chance to dominate. If Tiger Woods were a woman, he'd still have dominated golf for so many years. A woman could be the best bowler in the world. In more physical sports, women would have to have a significant skill gap to overcome their physical disadvantages. I'd never say it's impossible though.
 
I

injurai

Banned
HolyBaikal said:
You're right, that wasn't a very good example.

Still, I think that the gap in women's and men's world records will continue to close. The seconds and milliseconds between men's and women's swimming records will continue to close over the years. Ye Shiwen is young, and will continue to improve and get better. And there will soon be successors who best her.

I'm very confident in that, and looking forward to the achievements of Ye Shiwen, and anyone who might best her. The difference in the men's and women's records will someday become far less than 20 seconds. And some day, less than 10 seconds. And someday, less than 5 seconds. And some day, less than that.
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What will close it? Breeding, genetic modification, hormone treatments? You basically are saying the solution is external and with engineering and science we will close a natural gap. Well sure it would be nifty if one day woman and men could compete together. But woman naturally have less muscle mass and therefor strength, which says nothing against them. Some seem to feel that woman need to meet the same standards that men have set for themselves. There is nothing wrong in a woman succeeding at the highest degrees of practice and skill, in a woman's bracket.

Why is that not enough for you? Artificially closing that gap robs people to achieve their victories on their own accord. And as long as we are improving woman athletes, men also take steps forward. Closing the gap is not a sign of equality. Don't make it out to be that. Stop buying into that line of thinking that you are obligated to put the male and potential on equal footing in all things. Both men and woman are different, even amongst themselves. Let's stop favoring a single metric.
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
BronsonLee said:
I'm going to jump in here and tell you that the former is patently false.
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Do you have proof that someone who identifies as a girl or woman or womyn or female, or someone with XX chromosomes, or female reproductive organs, cannot have the same muscle density as any man?
 
T

The Shogun

Banned
HolyBaikal said:
Um.. uh.. um... women are capable of the same muscle density and lack of boobs as men are.

Actually, being flat chested is very common among female athletes. And women are able to have pecs, rather than boobs, just like men. Though it's less common for female body builders to have pecs and chests shaped like men, because many female body builders get breast implants. Because there is social pressure for female body builders to still be "feminine" and have curves.

After all, boobs are just body fat. And so athletic women are going to have less body fat, and smaller breasts or flatter chests. I'm a fan of female body builders, and I think that women can be just as muscular as any man. Though women are discouraged from doing so.
Click to expand...

The only way it's physically possible for a woman to have a male athletes muscle density is through PED use.
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
HolyBaikal said:
Um.. uh.. um... women are capable of the same muscle density and lack of boobs as men are.
Click to expand...

HolyBaikal said:
Do you have proof that someone who identifies as a girl or woman or womyn or female, or someone with XX chromosomes, or female reproductive organs, cannot have the same muscle density as any man?
Click to expand...

Just stop, please.

Skeletal muscle mass and distribution in 468 men and women aged 18–88 yr

py7l6Fo.gif
 
C

Caboose

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Um.. uh.. um... women are capable of the same muscle density and lack of boobs as men are.

Actually, being flat chested is very common among female athletes. And women are able to have pecs, rather than boobs, just like men. Though it's less common for female body builders to have pecs and chests shaped like men, because many female body builders get breast implants. Because there is social pressure for female body builders to still be "feminine" and have curves.

After all, boobs are just body fat. And so athletic women are going to have less body fat, and smaller breasts or flatter chests. I'm a fan of female body builders, and I think that women can be just as muscular as any man. Though women are discouraged from doing so.
Click to expand...

What? You say you're a fan of female bodybuilders.... I mean have you looked at the size difference between the male and female Olympia winners? And you still think women can be just as muscular as men?
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
You can't scientifically prove a negative. What you can do is look at the available empirical data and come to a conclusion. You don't have any ground to stand on, HB.
 
M

Macattk15

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Do you have proof that someone who identifies as a girl or woman or womyn or female, or someone with XX chromosomes, or female reproductive organs, cannot have the same muscle density as any man?
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http://www.livestrong.com/article/246036-how-much-more-muscle-mass-does-a-male-have-than-a-female/

Damn. The first google result.

I mean livestrong.com isn't a reliable source ... but I'm sure if searched for actually ... you could easily find scientific evidence that destroys your claim.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/89/1/81

A bit more medically sound ...
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
BronsonLee said:
Are you asking me for my biology book from middle school?
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What middle school textbook says that? I don't think a middle school biology book would say that.

And even then.. textbooks aren't perfect. Many textbooks contain incorrect information that have later been disproven.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Ye Shiwen is young, and will continue to improve and get better.
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Maybe. Really depends. Some female swimmers wind up peaking pretty early; if you take a look at world record progression for the 400m medley, for instance, records tend to be set in the 16-21 years range (whereas the last two record holders in the same event for men, set their final records in their mid twenties).
 
K

King Tubby

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Can you prove that to me?
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Please just do your own research. You are the one throwing out the unsubstantiated claims about women and men having the same potential when medical science and observation has found otherwise. I agree to some extent that women's athletics still has a long way to go because of unfair social factors, but the biology, hormones, muscular and skeletal structure of women is not to the same level of men for athletic pursuits.

Ronda Rousey is absolutely an amazing fighter, but going up against a man in her weightclass would be the equivalent of going up against a woman in a weightclass 3 tiers above, or more, not to mention that the crop of male fighters is generally better trained than the crop of women fighters because of those social aspects.
 
B

Booshka

Member
Women's MMA needs some competition ASAP.

I'm gonna say she would definitely lose to just about any semi-pro or pro Male MMA fighter in the same weight class. Maybe win, but probably not against Floyd, definitely a really good chance if she can get it into a grappling situation. I think Floyd would be able to pick her apart with strikes, Floyd with small gloves perfectly telegraphing strikes to your face is gonna fuck up your grappling plans immediately.
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
HolyBaikal said:
What middle school textbook says that? I don't think a middle school biology book would say that.

And even then.. textbooks aren't perfect. Many textbooks contain incorrect information that have later been disproven.
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So what you're saying is no matter what proof we show you, you're just going to dismiss it. Like the link I posted above.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Of course she could. Maybe not against the elite of the elite, but sure she'd be competitive with a lot of guys. The thing with these sports is they have weight divisions.. she's going to be fighting someone with the weight as her.

Also, pure strength and athletics doesn't mean everything in MMA.. as technique and proper training will make someone better than someone who is stronger and more athletic. Sure it's great to have both.. but people saying "no" are just full of it.

No men will fight her though.. it's lose/lose for them.
 
L

Le_Samourai

Banned
The Shogun said:
All the comparison here to other sports doesn't work honestly.

Fighting is a lot different and you can't really compare the two. For instance you can take a 120 lb women and if she applies an arm bar or a kimora correctly to you, you're arm is fucked. Its not really a physical thing its technique.

BJJ was invented for the sole purpose of allowing a smaller man to defeat a larger one.
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And in fighting only one punch can finish the fight, and how well you think Ronda is gonna take a punch from a technically better, faster and stronger men.
 
B

Bacon

Member
HolyBaikal said:
What middle school textbook says that? I don't think a middle school biology book would say that.

And even then.. textbooks aren't perfect. Many textbooks contain incorrect information that have later been disproven.
Click to expand...

This might be the most BS argument I've ever read on this site.
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
cdyhybrid said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477683
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Well, that seems like a pretty good source. But I'm not without doubts. Biases happen in studies very often. And the sample size is only eight women and eight men.

And "men" and "women" are very arbitrary concepts. It didn't say much about genetics, hormone difference, and things like that. I don't think that's enough data to come to a conclusion.
Possible differences between the average man or woman in things like this have to do with the interaction between genetics and hormones.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
HolyBaikal said:
What middle school textbook says that? I don't think a middle school biology book would say that.

And even then.. textbooks aren't perfect. Many textbooks contain incorrect information that have later been disproven.
Click to expand...
Just give up on this one. It's true. I don't really like it either as I like to see people as just people (without race or gender). But you can't fight reality on this one. About to go out of town so I don't have time to look it up for you but I have four years of medical school training. Women's bodies are built differently than men's. Most notable differences include fat distribution and hip width. Men also produce a lot more testosterone. There are many, many more differences but it should be easy to understand why the sum of these differences give men the advantage in physical activities.
 
M

Macattk15

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Well, that seems like a pretty good source. But I'm not without doubts. Biases happen in studies very often. And the sample size is only eight women and eight men.

And "men" and "women" are very arbitrary concepts. It didn't say much about genetics, hormone difference, and things like that. I don't think that's enough data to come to a conclusion.
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K. You have to be just trolling at this point ...

Looking at your post history I question how you haven't been banned.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Well, that seems like a pretty good source. But I'm not without doubts. Biases happen in studies very often. And the sample size is only eight women and eight men.

And "men" and "women" are very arbitrary concepts. It didn't say much about genetics, hormone difference, and things like that. I don't think that's enough data to come to a conclusion.
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"Everybody is stupid except me"
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
HolyBaikal said:
Well, that seems like a pretty good source. But I'm not without doubts. Biases happen in studies very often. And the sample size is only eight women and eight men.

And "men" and "women" are very arbitrary concepts. It didn't say much about genetics, hormone difference, and things like that. I don't think that's enough data to come to a conclusion.
Click to expand...

You pretty much troll in every topic you post in. Really no point to continue at all.
 
D

Diprosalic

Banned
NervousXtian said:
The thing with these sports is they have weight divisions.. she's going to be fighting someone with the weight as her.
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women have lots of unnecessary fat and less muscle mass and a worse build.
at the same weight, men are much more 'efficient'.

probably can cut better too, for weight in but not sure about that one.
 
S

soundahfekz

Member
Nah. dudes be just making up shit in order to look progressive. There's a reason why striking a woman is almost always frowned upon.

the physiological difference would be just too much to overcome. There's nothing about that fact that should make women feel inferior though, it's nature.
 
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