llien
Member
Why are you more concerned about people wearing masks than about mutant that spreads on territory where more than half of the population has been vaccinated?
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Why are you more concerned about people wearing masks than about mutant that spreads on territory where more than half of the population has been vaccinated?
ManaByte
Gold Member
Pfizer/BioNTech, AZ vaccines effective against Delta COVID-19 variant after two doses - PMLiVE
Pfizer/BioNTech and AZ vaccines found to be 96% and 92% effective against variant, respectively
www.pmlive.com
BouncyFrag
Member
llien
Member
UK is at what, about 50% of population with two jabs?Pfizer/BioNTech, AZ vaccines effective against Delta COVID-19 variant after two doses - PMLiVE
Pfizer/BioNTech and AZ vaccines found to be 96% and 92% effective against variant, respectively
Where is that goddamn effectiveness?
Nearly the same story with Portugal, this time with Biontech's jab.
arkhamguy123
Member
Well you have to go through it with a scalpel not a hammer. Their case numbers look pretty fucking bad yes but if you look at the demographic break down and factor in the UK's unorthodox strict rollout, you'll see the age demos that have been largely vaccinated are not where cases are primarily coming from, it is largely the 12-29 range that has not gotten the vaccine yet.
In about a month when that age demo has gotten theirs in the millions you'll see this third and likely final wave fall off a cliff.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yea, a lot of people who aren't in the orbit of healthcare seem to think young people, especially young adults 19-29, are somehow magically immune to the virus and the havoc it wreaks. Those of us who had to actually traffic within hospitals over the past year know that even the young can get absolutely annihilated by this and it's never pretty. Seeing a person who is like 25 with the body of an Adonis struggling for breath on oxygen while doctors throw hail Mary's of treatments at them is something I saw many times between March and July of 2020. That isn't fear mongering, that shit happened, at hospitals all over.
Anwyays I love you all, get vaxxed, wear your mask until 14 days past your second shot, and enjoy life.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Hard to say. Meanwhile in India, where the Delta variant came from, they went from a 7-day moving average for daily new cases of 392,000 on May 8th to 63,000 as of today all with under 4% of the population fully vaccinated. Remember this is with a population of almost 1.4 billion, which is about 20x the population of the UK that is back up to 9,100 for its 7-day moving average for daily new cases.
Seems like this thing just comes and goes as it will, to be honest, although Israel's data remains promising.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
The study shows two doses of the vaccines were 92% effective against hospitalization or death by the variant. That's really high, and it's pretty stellar that the vaccines are actually so effective against mutations. Off the top of my head, for most years that's actually more effective than the Influenza vaccine - another virus that mutates rapidly, hence the need for an annual shot.
Anywho, we're going to keep reading about COVID-19 issues until more people stop being afraid of science and get vaccinated. We need that herd immunity.
highrider
Banned
Out of curiosity I can’t think of any celebrities or known people with health and no pre-existing problems that were ravaged by covid in that age range. I mean not one. But I’ll take your word for it I guess. My son’s mom is also a nurse in intensive care, doesn’t sound reflective of her patients at all.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It's a large world with a lot of people in it, a lot of hospitals, so yes results will vary. Celebrities account for what, .0000001% of the population, and tend to live in secluded bubbles?
The healthcare network I work for has seven hospitals all within 15-30 minutes of driving time from me, several more in adjacent states, metropolitan areas mostly, over 30k employees, something like 400,000 unique patients a year (that is a difficult figure to tie down but it's about right according to our data) when you also factor in remote and SMG contacts, etc. And yea, I personally saw young people die from this early on, when care providers really didn't have much info to go on aside from the preliminary CDC and WHO stuff. The average doctor in a place like New York city probably saw more. Etc.
llien
Member
This contradicts the data I see a and hear.
Naturally, even with not too effective vaccines, virus would still spread better among non-vaccinated, but it is a fucking third of infected having TWO jabs.
And entire UK progress is much ahead of what was just said in the thread:
Israel was at below 60% when sharp decline in cases started (and dropped to practically zero).
With this shit and CURRENT VACCINES that is not happening.
We are in deep shit and might get into even deeper one, if we let delta mutate further.
Strict knockdowns, strengthened by DEATHS shown quite vividly to the entire population, as an indicator of what happens if silliness continues.
And, guys, remember how we got delta?
Number of cases were pretty low in India.
And some bright minds said "oh, Corona is kinda over, why don't we have events with millions of people involved".
DeepBreath87
Banned
Yeah. No. Science says the vaccines are over 90% effective against this variant. You don’t get to follow science when it suits you, and then discard it when it doesn’t. We are not in “deep shit”. We are done with covid. The US has been holding large events for weeks and months depending on where you live. No measurable increase. In fact, the numbers have decreased.This contradicts the data I see a and hear.
Naturally, even with not too effective vaccines, virus would still spread better among non-vaccinated, but it is a fucking third of infected having TWO jabs.
And entire UK progress is much ahead of what was just said in the thread:
Israel was at below 60% when sharp decline in cases started (and dropped to practically zero).
With this shit and CURRENT VACCINES that is not happening.
We are in deep shit and might get into even deeper one, if we let delta mutate further.
Strict knockdowns, strengthened by DEATHS shown quite vividly to the entire population, as an indicator of what happens if silliness continues.
And, guys, remember how we got delta?
Number of cases were pretty low in India.
And some bright minds said "oh, Corona is kinda over, why don't we have events with millions of people involved".
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It's both. The vaccines are very effective, especially after two doses, but if only half of a given population are getting them then expect the virus to keep spreading.
Birdo
Banned
No offense, but it blows my mind that some people just blindly follow something because it's "Science".
Science is why we even have this virus.
DeepBreath87
Banned
That’s true. But the vaccine is available to basically everyone who is at a truly high risk. At that point not only does it become an issue of responsibility on the individual, but the ability for the virus to spread at such a rate that our healthcare system cannot bear the strain basically goes away.
So while it is still dangerous somewhat, because covid is somewhat dangerous on an individual level, people who want to alleviate that risk are free to do so and probably should, at least in my opinion.
QSD
Member
This is an excellent overview. Props to Taibbi for making it accessible to all.
DeepBreath87
Banned
pel1300
Member
Nice. I had a feeling Matt Taibbi would be one of the first journalists to have Bret's back considering they are friends.
This was one of my favorite Darkhorse episodes from last year:
I hope he appears on Rogan (Rogan has been retweeting all this Bret/youtube drama). Bret's appearance on JRE last year has nearly 8 million views.
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CloudNull
Banned
New peer reviewed study published Jun 17.
Horse paste locked and loaded
This shit kills me. Science should be searching for the truth and this study should be blasted from all news media.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Taibbi is pretty much an old school journalist, in which he doesn't give a shit how political a story may be - he just reports. Of all the journalists out there he seems to be the closest to me politically. I don't follow him on Twitter or listen to his podcasts or whatever, I just noticed over the years in his interviews and his articles he seems really level headed.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Meanwhile the UK's 7-day moving average is over 9,000 and climbing despite having a slightly higher fully vaccinated rate than the US (47% vs 45%) and much higher partially vaccinated rate (64% vs 53%). Although it may be worth mentioning that according to the latest CDC guidance in the US, fully vaccinated individuals who test positive for COVID-19 do not get added to the official case count unless they are hospitalized or die.
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llien
Member
Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines
Review clinical data on the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19.
www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov
Recommendation
- There are insufficient data for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.
Clinical Trials
Several clinical trials that are evaluating the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 are currently underway or in development. Please see ClinicalTrials.gov for the latest information.So, what is it? Sensationalist bitching?
What kind of efficacy are we talking about?
llien
Member
You are mistaking science for idiocy.
TheDreadBaron
Member
Hard to know as a layperson, but if I was sick and had the option I’d want the Ivermectin knowing its a well tested drug with very little risk, it sure cant hurt to try.
MisterFalcon
Member
This could be social factors, if the 10% unvaccinated all live in one city you can get massive exponential growth there without any herd immunity effect from the 90% outside that city. Far more then in another society with 15% unvaccinated but spread out evenly so they do get protection from the vaccinated.
The 10% are enough to cause a short term crisis in care capacity but it cannot become another early 2021 situation with the other 90% far better able to get through an infection without needing any care or even noticing they were infected.
llien
Member
It is a well tested drug with substantial risk. (as most other drugs we have).
Ivermectin - Wikipedia
The paper in question was released a couple of days ago only.
The drug was on the radar at least at NHS.
On top of it:
TheDreadBaron
Member
It is a well tested drug with substantial risk. (as most other drugs we have).
Ivermectin - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The paper in question was released a couple of days ago only.
The drug was on the radar at least at NHS.
On top of it:
I guess we disagree what constitutes substantial risk.
Who is this person and why is their opinion more relevant than the entire list of authors on that paper?
That's fine that he is asserting it's a bunch of quacks, i'm skeptical myself, but all he does is attack their character. Not a very compelling argument.
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llien
Member
Most of the writers did various things, not entire paper.
I don't trust either of the random comments.
NHS listing the drug with "no clear conclusion" is the main indicator of this being misleading bitching.
llien
Member
As expected, Portugal's spike caused by delta:
www.euronews.com
Delta variant fuels spike in coronavirus cases in Lisbon
The more contagious delta variant has a prevalence of 60% of new cases in the Libson region, Portuguese health authorities said on Sunday.
www.euronews.com
FunkMiller
Member
Deaths in UK still tiny, and hospitalisations also still very low. Vaccines doing their job against the delta variant in the UK, and still only 60% fully vaxxed at this point.
Fully expect death rate, and serious case rate to be virtually non existent once we get up above 80% fully vaxxed. Case rates will drop like a stone as well.
Covid is more or less over as a serious health threat in the UK.
Fully expect death rate, and serious case rate to be virtually non existent once we get up above 80% fully vaxxed. Case rates will drop like a stone as well.
Covid is more or less over as a serious health threat in the UK.
TheContact
Member
Cases are way down except those not getting vaccinated are getting hit hard still via the delta variant. Still, despite some people skeptical of the vaccine the trend is still looking good. Still wish more people got the vax though
FunkMiller
Member
A vast majority are getting vaxxed. I think it's fine.
Anti-vaxxers will still be whining about the vaccine even when Covid has been fully controlled. All the evidence will show the vaccine has killed off the threat, but they'll just say we're being lied to, or that the figures are wrong, or some other bullshit. Goalposts always changing. Meanwhile the rest of us will just get on with our vaccinated lives, knowing full well that the science around them was correct.
DeepBreath87
Banned
the US has herd immunity in most places because there is also a high level of natural immunity now. There are almost 35 million documented cases. But if you assume (I think comfortably) that the number of actual cases is higher due to people not being tested, that number is probably half what it should be. I’m well aware that’s in assumption, but I don’t believe it to be unrealistic. So that’s 70 million or so people with natural immunity. There are 150 million people fully vaccinated in the US. That puts the number (accounting for over lap between the two groups) around 200 million. There are another 26 million people who already have the first dose. All together, we are probably close to having 2/3 of the US population with some for of immunity.
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Birdo
Banned
Please stop calling everyone "Anti-vaxxer", it's very dumb, and you are smarter than that. Plenty of people not wanting to take part in the trials are vaccinated for other things, including myself.
I know you are all excited that it's working to help keep the elderly and vulnerable from hospital. But we can't just ignore the potential long term effects. Pfizer's own data shows that the spike protein is being found in bone marrow and ovaries, to name a few. This is enough for many, even doctors, to be cautious. And they have every right to, no matter how much you want to go to a party with your friends.
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llien
Member
Israel never got beyond 61% fully vaxxed.
I have yet to see non-misleading stats on vaccinated vs got delta.
My understanding it that even vaccinated people do get it en mass.
The dynamic is worrying to say the least.
80% of UK's 18+ population is vaccinated, of which about 60% fully.
Latest R range for England 1.2 to 1.4
Yet this shit spreads at increasing speed, DESPITE bouncing off from a number of vaccinated people?
Does it take a genius to see that we will get "doesn't give a fuck about vaccination status" variant soon... (and then what...
)"Let others risk their lives instead" take, very smart indeed.
Let's have more COVID-19 variants and have fun with potential long term effects from them instead.
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FunkMiller
Member
Nah, I’ll keep calling people who are against the vaccine anti-vaxxers if it’s all the same to you.
And it’s because I and my friends have had the vaccine that we had a very lovely get together on Saturday - secure in the knowledge that they are very effective, and allow us to get back to normal life
Birdo
Banned
allow us to get back to normal life
We'll see.
FunkMiller
Member
Don’t know what to tell you… cases rising due to delta, but serious cases not up much, and deaths not up at all.
The vaccines were never about preventing Covid completely. They are about reducing serious cases and deaths. That’s precisely what’s happening.
FunkMiller
Member
Things feel pretty normal around here again. Cant speak for whatever you are!
llien
Member
They were about shutting down Covid completely (that is what 94% efficacy allows to do), and it is precisely what happened in Israel.
Now that delta shit appears unmanagable (at seen in UK and Portugal) there is that moving goalpost.
Letting virus spread among vaccinated population is extremely dangerous.
Birdo
Banned
We never really lost our normal, even during lockdown. The only thing that changed was people wearing masks in stores.
I just assume we got lucky here, because, despite being told that we are a "hot spot", I still don't know anyone, or anyone who knows anyone who died or got sick from Covid
(And my friend works at the local hospital lol).
FunkMiller
Member
What on Earth are you talking about? Delta isn’t unmanageable at all. We’re at 9000 cases a day, which is an increase, but nowhere close to the 80,000 a day in January, hospitalisations are still very low, and deaths are even lower. We’re just in a race to get everyone vaccinated, and we’re winning, as evidenced by hospitalisations and deaths.
And not once has anyone said the aim is zero Covid.
FunkMiller
Member
We never really lost our normal, even during lockdown. The only thing that changed was people wearing masks in stores.
I just assume we got lucky here, because, despite being told that we are a "hot spot", I still don't know anyone, or anyone who knows anyone who died or got sick from Covid
Yeah, you got very lucky. I’m in London. We most certainly didn’t.
