-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
highrider
Banned
Yes results will vary. My problem is you are arguing from authority and I happen to know multiple professional people currently working in healthcare. Nothing they have said to me is reflecting what you’re saying at all. Perhaps you’re being a bit overdramatic to emphasize it can happen to a young, healthy person, but no, that’s not reflected in reality or statistics.
Last edited:
Hulk_Smash
Banned
FunkMiller
Member
See, I'm as strong an advocate for getting the vaccine as you can get, but I think this is a horrible state of affairs. You can't just jail people for refusing to take medicine. It's perfectly reasonable to require people to take the vaccine for certain jobs, or in certain other pertinent situations (employers and other businesses are free to require it, as much as you are free to say no to having it), but you can't remove people's freedom. Duterte's a corrupt asshole anyway, so I'm not surprised.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
This is truly insane and illustrates the futility of the "follow the science" religious fanatics who are fully vaxxed and still double masking outdoors.
QSD
Member
Yeah that guy's been topping the list of worst currently active world leaders for a while now, one terrible idea after another
Well I don't think any western leaders are quite crazy enough to try it, but it's good to hear I can count on you to smash any that do
Hulk_Smash
Banned
It depends on what you mean by “smash”. If it’s Kim Yo Jong, then bring it on.Yeah that guy's been topping the list of worst currently active world leaders for a while now, one terrible idea after another
Well I don't think any western leaders are quite crazy enough to try it, but it's good to hear I can count on you to smash any that do
Raven117
Member
Its not wide spread because of mandatory vaccinations (because how contagious and how dangerous it is). Covid, especially as time goes on with effective treatment (and vaccines) is looking much more like the flu than the measles. Just look at the hospitalization and death rate...even in the UK...dropped like a rock (and has been dropping...even the "spike" is not near as crazy as it was).
No, it isn't echo chamber shit. You are constantly...CONSTANTLY...ringing deaths doorbell about how "we aren't out of this yet...blah blah." What is it that you want? What do you want to have happen? Want another lockdown? Want more masks? Want everyone to be inside their houses for another year? What do you want to have happen? You refuse...REFUSE to look at any science that is actually hopeful and supportive that the worst is over. Just look at the video above from Sky News. Will people get sick? Yup. We are going to have to live with Covid in our midst for years to come. Its going to be a part of life. Instead of coming to grips with that, instead, you continue to post chicken-little crap like its April 2020. Its time you start to analyze how you think about this and what kinds of risks you are willing to accept in your life and how you think the world should address disease. Its time for you to think about why you are focusing on the negative...why you seem to want drastic measures in place where they aren't necessary (if they are effective anyway).
The reality of the matter is that readily available vaccines are the goal line and a focus on hospitalizations (ie crashing the healthcare system...governments of the world don't owe anyone a disease free world). The vaccines are effective against all known variants right now. Hospitals are far from being overrun in the U.S. and U.K. While sure, its something to keep an eye on to see if things are changing (and if a variant develops that is completely resistant to a vaccine and they can't account for it in a booster shot of some sort), we have to get on with it. There is no other option.
Last edited:
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I don't know man, the flu?
Just this month two friends of mine, healthy adults, regular weight, no smoking, etc got it.
Had to go to the hospital, massive fever, couldn't breathe... it's over now but they have pneumonia to deal with now.
Last edited:
Raven117
Member
Of all of that....that is what you picked up on? Remember, a given year people die of flu all the time. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/
THIS IS NOT WHAT I AM ARGUING. (I really shouldn't have said flu...that is what everyone will respond to instead of my broader point..)
Sorry about your friends, hope they get better. But also remember, for them....THOUSANDS of other people will (like Hulk), will barely feel it. People get sick. People die. ALL THE TIME. What is it that you want to have happen now that we have vaccines and better treatment. That's the question.
DeepBreath87
Banned
We’ve decided that somehow covid is disappearing miraculously instead. We’re all about science over here.
BouncyFrag
Member
llien
Member
I work with lots of Indians and they say that things have calmed down over there.
llien
Member
That's a fair point.
I want UK and Portugal (and whoever gets it next) to break the Delta wave.
Because I believe that if that doesn't happen, "vaccines are effective against all variants" will stop being true.
Last edited:
Raven117
Member
Fair enough. It does look like the U.K. has blunted Delta a bit. This thing will never stop mutating (as true with all coronaviruses). Usually, mutations end up being weaker.
I guess from a policy perspective what is it that you think the U.K. and U.S. should do? We can post scary stuff all day, but what needs to happen in your view? For me, it seems that readily available vaccines (to anyone that wants one) along with limited hospitalizations is the goal. We will never get to zero. Its about figuring out how to live with this. That's my point. At some point, we just have to say "we will keep an eye on increases and mutations, but otherwise, lets get on with it."
We now hè Delta Plus !! Next month the sequel, Delta Mega Plus .
Plus seems to evade vaccination and natural immunization to some extent.
Sadly, we will keep to life with some kind of lock down and isolate strategy for the coming 10 years and in worst case 2 vaccinations a year with stuff into the veins .
Plus seems to evade vaccination and natural immunization to some extent.
Sadly, we will keep to life with some kind of lock down and isolate strategy for the coming 10 years and in worst case 2 vaccinations a year with stuff into the veins .
Last edited:
llien
Member
US is not hit yet, cases are still dropping, UK and Portugal need to find the way to break the wave, restrictions is one but not only method of achieving that.
Trumping about "but people don't die (yet)" bugs me.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Some coronaviruses have actually mutated into irrelevance, in which they mutated into a strain that was no longer harmful to whatever species they were infecting and eventually disappeared. This one doesn't seem to be going that route, sadly.
Last edited:
llien
Member
QSD
Member
I guess if wait long enough the similarties between coronaviruses and street fighter sequels will become hard to deny
Hyper Covid21 Delta Gaiden - Third Strike
QSD
Member
LOL Hmmm ok maybe if we want them to be recognizable we need to go a different route and give them girl's names just like with hurricanes
Super Mega Covid turbo hyper edition 2025!
Like we are currently dealing with Covid Diana, after that comes Covid Ethel, then Covid Fiona and so on
Last edited:
It’s always the same pattern.. have been for 1.5 year, nothing surprising. Bit weird people still don’t get it.
Last edited:
Raven117
Member
So, you want restrictions? Like what? You want lockdowns (which we can debate were effective). You want masks for vaccinated? You want less occupancy in restaurants? What do you want?
Death rate IS low. People will die with this disease and many other contagions diseases. The question is, with a vaccine (or even without, but thats a different and largely academic discussion), what else do you want? You haven't been really specific about this other than saying "restrictions." How long do you want the restrictions? At some point, the show must go on. You are living in fear. Fear of all of this. THE DEATH RATE IS LOW AND FALLING in most of the world...and even in the harder hit areas, its not near as bad as when there were no vaccines and no immunity. Its just an infectious disease we have to learn to deal with.
Way...way too early to make that call.
Raven117
Member
27 dead!!! ZOMG! SHUT IT DOOWWNNNNNNNNNN.
Keep things in perspective man. That's low. Way more people die of other causes than that daily.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Here's a short and sweet collection of info on the known variants and none of them are what one would call "weaker" compared to previous strains for natural-borne immunity: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html
At best they're "not of concern", which means natural immunity or inoculation is enough to consider them not some kind of immediate danger. But they're all still affecting humans and some more contagious than others. So, yea, it's very safe to say that right now this one isn't trending into irrelevance at all.
llien
Member
I want the wave broken with whatever works.
Death rates are lagging behind cases by several weeks.
Delta was said to be HARDER than previous version.
What happens next?
TheDreadBaron
Member
Isn’t it possible the vaccines are causing the viruses to mutate quicker?
llien
Member
Virus mutates when it reproduces itself in humans.
It is when you let that virus out to spread, when "mutations" happen in our sense.
The more you let it happen the higher are the chances of creating yet another mutation.
When you have a virus that seems to be evading partially vaccinated people and just ignore it, you are essentially cultivating an even stronger mutant.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
There's no evidence of that for this virus, no. Most of it is just antigenic drift. It's not like the other big RNA virus Influenza, which mutates far more rapidly, and reacts quickly to changes in the environments it is attacking. It's why flu vaccines become quickly irrelevant, while scientists are still confident current SARS-CoV-2 vaccines will be effective for a long time to come: because it mutates more slowly and without as drastic of changes.
But the flu / Influenza, yes, that one does react to vaccinations and it's why we're still here fighting that fucker all these years later. The outset looks better for COVID, so long as we can get enough of the world vaccinated in time before some wild variant pops up.
Raven117
Member
But its a year and some change into this. Long term, it will likely follow the same trajectory.
A number of people will die. Yup. No doubt about it. The trajectory is no where near what it was a few months ago. Just watch that sky news thing.
You don't shut down the economy for 27 deaths a day. Hell, that is less than the flu deaths in the U.S. in any given year. BY ALOT. Even if it raises (question is how much...but vaccine and natural immunity are in there now), its not a whole lot. We don't restrict everything.
DeepBreath87
Banned
Some people seem to have a really hard time dealing with these facts right here. This is a virus that is going to kill some people. This is reality. Anyone under any illusions that we are going to eradicate this virus or this is going to go away should dispense with those right now. Covid is permanent. It’s forever. Start factoring it into your life risk assessment now. Fortunately, covid is both relatively low risk for generally healthy people under 50 and we have also developed highly effective vaccines, which drastically lower the risk for everyone.
At this point, if you are still afraid of covid, you need to get a vaccine. If you already did that, and you’re still afraid, you might need to seek mental health assistance. Because you’re being irrational.
That doesn’t mean science shouldn’t be keeping an eye on covid or coming up with new treatments or vaccines. But if right now, you think society needs to be restricted or you’re afraid to go about your business, you should thinking about seeing someone to talk your way through that.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
We got rid of smallpox and polio, mostly botulism, Influenza took a huge dip this year when many thought such an idea was impossible. We don't need to settle. We could rather vaccinate and maintain some protections in places when needed. No need to give up.
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
Why is vaccination going so slowly?! Hesitency?
Raven117
Member
Here here. This is my point. I don't know what these people are waiting for. Just wringing their hands looking at all what could potentially happen. The time for just discussing this in a vacume is over. Its time to start making decisions about your life and what types of risk you are willing to accept. We do it everyday. (Threshold bias). Time for this to enter the mix. Chances of everything being fine are VERY high.
Small pox (not nearly as contagious, and there is a vaccine). Polio (spreads through droplets, there is a vaccine, and still active in other parts of the world..same with small pox). Botulsim is bacteria based, so different deal there.
Its not giving up, its letting the scientific community do its thing without every step of the way being political. (Scientists, as we have seen, make lousy politicians). One day, once the vaccine is fully vetted and perfected, perhaps it will be mandatory and a one shot deal when you are a kid. That would be great. But we are years from that. They can't even get that with the flu (which Covid 19 is more alike).
So, its time to start making decisions about YOUR life. What YOU want to do. Because, like it or not, the world is opening back up.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
its scary how quickly covid is mutating
DeepBreath87
Banned
It’s not about giving up. It’s about accepting reality. This is much more like measles than it is like smallpox. And while measles has been largely curbed, and maybe this will too, measles still exists. The only reason reason we don’t have millions of people with the measles is because the vaccine provides almost lifelong immunity and we pretty much give it to everyone.
Maybe the covid vaccine will prove safe enough and their immunity durable enough that covid will become like that. Hopefully that is how this will play out. But right now, this is where we are.
EverythingsOverrated
Member
Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that this years flu numbers are more than likely inaccurate and were lumped in with COVID cases.
Nailed it right here. I have a friend in his 30's, healthy, not fat, fully vaccinated and the dude i worried about taking his mask off at work. Just completely illogical fear. The majority of the blame for people with this weird ass COVID PTSD is with the media (and our govt). The amount of people that I speak with about COVID, the vaccines efficacy, what the vaccines actually do, the low rate of mortality in healthy people under the age of 60 is absolutely absurd.
We keep hearing the mantra of follow the science, but it doesn't look like we are.
QSD
Member
Although I agree completely with the general sentiment about accepting that viruses will kill some people, I would like to push back a bit on the "get your head checked" part of the message
Almost all fears are, in large part, irrational, because fear is an emotion. If a fear isn't irrational, then most people would say they are voicing "concern" or some other term to denote that their emotions have been attenuated by reason.
Anyway people are 'irrationally' fearful of lots of things, fear of flying, fear of germs, fear of small spaces, fear of spiders, the list goes on. Sometimes these fears are debilitating and you can seek treatment. I'd say that for COVID19 specifically, it's too early to say the chips are in definitively on what the risks are, so hold on to any diagnoses of Coronaphobia you want dish out. Edit: also note that many other (more primal) fears could lay at the base of fear of Corona spreading again.
here's a top 20 of the most common phobia's
note that for example fear of needles is in the top 20, and is definitely involved in a certain % of anti-vaccination sentiment, if you ask me.
Also note fear or germs (which for a lot of people would probably also include viruses) right there
Last edited:
DeepBreath87
Banned
All things are relative. But if fear of covid is currently keeping someone from living a happy, full life, as in it is keeping them from doing things they otherwise want to do, they should see someone. Because the risks of covid are not such that it should stop them from enjoying their life. Much like if someone’s fear of spiders kept them locked indoors, because they thought going outside would allow the spiders to get them, I would suggest they get some help with that.
I’m not talking about low level anxiety or passing concerns. I’m talking about wanting or expecting society to be further put on hold to allay anyone’s fears about covid. That is not a healthy mindset.
Last edited:
Cracklox
Member
First post here for a while...
But yes, this is exactly right and more or less what I've being saying from the start.
However where I am (Aussie) we've had 1 whole death this year and we've just come out of a 2 and a half week lockdown (our 4th) over a few 'cases'. Not sure where its at now, but a week or so ago there was ONE person in the whole country in ICU (remember when it was about the health care system not being overwhelmed...). This, despite being constantly beat over the head with how deadly these new strains are...
Anyway, 1230 odd people died of the flu in 2017 here, compared to 909 from CV last year. 440 or so people die here everyday. But who cares about other communicable diseases or things like heart disease and cancer. Those things don't pull the fear porn ratings CV does.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
I mean you do realize that the reason barely anyone has died of covid in Australia is because of the measures they’ve taken? Your country is barely vaccinated. Have you watched the news from other parts of the world? Far more people are dying from this than the flu.
Last edited: