Support NeoGAF

[JumpMan1981]

Not a single person has adviced to take horse quantity amounts of ivermectin on this thread. Maybe you should be the one looking at it again.

I think FunkMiller is more interested in screeching about what they THINK is being said in the thread rather than actually being a part of the conversation. I'm fine with this. Would be easy enough to put them on ignore but then I'd be missing out on laughing at them.

 

[Jaysen]

dont get caught dying of covid and leaving this as your profile pic

registered nurse too

Yeah, and in one of his last Facebook posts he blamed getting it on undocumented immigrants spreading covid to the whites.

 

[Jaysen]

antivaxers talking about fda approval was a real headscratcher for me

Pfizer outpaid the horse paste lobby.

 

[Loki]

In 2020 COVID19 was the third leading cause of death in the USA. Is that quantifiable enough for you?

No, because there were many reasons for that which don't necessarily have bearing on where we as a society are today with respect to COVID, hence it is not necessarily the case that the same type of measures, or the same level of response, is needed at this point in time as may have been needed in Q2-Q4 2020.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Well that's the thing isn't it? The conversation on a global pandemic is being driven by social media and so you will hear only the wildest stories.

I guess that does work both ways but you'd think after so many people got vaccinated we'd be able to start being a bit less hysterical and a bit more objective. Apparently not.

As someone who has been vaccinated I am perfectly comfortable with people making their own decisions.
I would get a booster too and again I am fine with people who don't want that.

I don't really get the blind rage or the eagerness to take people's personal choice away from them.
Even if people are making absolutely terrible personal decisions I think we just have to accept that this is part of having free-will.
Maybe it sucks but it is what it is.

Part of the problem, entirely separate from covid, is that there is such a cutthroat competition for people’s attention these days. You’ve got legacy media, social media, streaming services, real life. Eyeballs are a finite resource and demand for them is more competitive than it’s ever been. We all know that if it bleeds, it leads. Fear gets people to pay attention. So there is definitely a push from multiple angles to keep people watching by making them afraid.

That doesn’t mean what is being said isn’t real. But in a country of 330 million people, an isolated event is just an isolated event. Things need to be put into context and perspective, which is almost always lacking these days.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Part of the problem, entirely separate from covid, is that there is such a cutthroat competition for people’s attention these days. You’ve got legacy media, social media, streaming services, real life. Eyeballs are a finite resource and demand for them is more competitive than it’s ever been. We all know that if it bleeds, it leads. Fear gets people to pay attention. So there is definitely a push from multiple angles to keep people watching by making them afraid.

That doesn’t mean what is being said isn’t real. But in a country of 330 million people, an isolated event is just an isolated event. Things need to be put into context and perspective, which is almost always lacking these days.

It's not an isolated event. The stupidity with the ivermectin has happened multiple times. It's not just one wacko downing horse medication.

 

[DeafTourette]

Maybe if you stick a Jordan logo on the vials.

What Jordan? Michael? If this is in relation to Gov. Abbott laying the blame to the spike on unvaccinated black folks... The number of unvaccinated blacks to unvaccinated whites is SMALL in comparison! Black people are less than half the population of white people in TX.

Not to mention they're a much smaller minority overall in Alabama which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country.

 

[Schattenjäger]

take with a grain of salt but maybe...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ring-delta-peak-but-risks-abound?srnd=premium

 

[DeepBreath87]

It's not an isolated event. The stupidity with the ivermectin has happened multiple times. It's not just one wacko downing horse medication.

How many times? In a country of 330 million people? Again, perspective.

What Jordan? Michael? If this is in relation to Gov. Abbott laying the blame to the spike on unvaccinated black folks... The number of unvaccinated blacks to unvaccinated whites is SMALL in comparison! Black people are less than half the population of white people in TX.

Not to mention they're a much smaller minority overall in Alabama which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country.

So black people are 13% of the US population, so naturally they’re going to represent a smaller overall percentage of the unvaccinated. So let’s dispense with that right off the bat.

Currently, 40% of black people in the US are vaccinated. 50% of white peoples and 45% of Hispanics.

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

KFF is collecting and analyzing data on COVID-19 vaccinations by race/ethnicity to gain increased insight who is receiving the vaccine and whether some groups are facing disparities in vaccination.

www.kff.org

So black people currently are 10% behind Hispanics and 20% behind whites in vaccination rate. These are facts.

As to Alabama, while black people are between 12 and 13% of the population in the country, they are 27% of the population in Alabama. So they actual are over represented in that state, which as you said, had the lowest vaccination rate in the country.

This is further a problem because black people are represented disproportionately in statistics that are significant comorbidites with regards to covid, particularly diabetes, and they have also been over represented in terms of deaths from covid as a result. So vaccination in that particular population is even more important.

 

[FunkMiller]

Not a single person has adviced to take horse quantity amounts of ivermectin on this thread. Maybe you should be the one looking at it again.

And I haven’t suggested that anyone in this thread has. I was commenting on the general (ridiculous) discussion that anyone has been doing it. I think you should probably be the one looking at things again, or at least not get so hot under the collar when you‘re not sure of the intent of someone else’s post.

 

[Rentahamster]

A bit disingenuous but OK.

I'd say it's more interesting to see people's extreme reaction in the other direction.
A drug that is pretty commonly given to humans in some parts of the world now has people screeching "IT'S MEANT FOR HORSES" because they don't like it being touted as an alternative to vaccination. A bit weird.

A bit disingenuous but OK.

 

[Rentahamster]

No, because there were many reasons for that which don't necessarily have bearing on where we as a society are today with respect to COVID, hence it is not necessarily the case that the same type of measures, or the same level of response, is needed at this point in time as may have been needed in Q2-Q4 2020.

Don't hand wave away around 400,000 American deaths with wishful thinking.

Don't ambiguously overgeneralize the point either. We're specifically talking about whether or not unvaccinated people pose a danger to themselves and the others around them. They do.

 

[synchronicity]

Well that's the thing isn't it? The conversation on a global pandemic is being driven by social media and so you will hear only the wildest stories.

I guess that does work both ways but you'd think after so many people got vaccinated we'd be able to start being a bit less hysterical and a bit more objective. Apparently not.

As someone who has been vaccinated I am perfectly comfortable with people making their own decisions.
I would get a booster too and again I am fine with people who don't want that.

I don't really get the blind rage or the eagerness to take people's personal choice away from them.
Even if people are making absolutely terrible personal decisions I think we just have to accept that this is part of having free-will.
Maybe it sucks but it is what it is.

Yes, free-will is the crux of the matter for many, and certainly part of my own frustration when it comes to talk of covid passes/mandates. Personally I haven't gotten the vaccine yet. I'm not against vaccines in any way, but I do have concerns in this particular case, for a variety of reasons. I also have an auto-immune condition as well as polycystic kidney disease, and I'd rather not take it for the time being. Plus I already had covid, and it was fairly intense for me, although didn't warrant hospitalization.

But the hysteria around this pandemic is, despite the deaths we've incurred, overblown imho. I mean, double the amount of people died from heart disease last year, and the bulk of that was likely "voluntary" in the sense that people were abusing themselves with poor diet and sedentary lifestyles. Granted, heart disease isn't conventionally thought of as contagious, although you could make the argument that in a social context - via learned behaviors - it most certainly is. If you look at families who suffer from the effects of environmental heart disease (behavioral), it most certainly has the appearance of a contagion, albeit in a different manner of communicability. But that's a whole different conversation. We could also put (behavioral) diabetes, through all the mortality and illness associated, into the same mix. And these things also put society under a collective strain. Increased health insurance premiums, unnecessary stress on the healthcare system, familial stressors, and on and on.

In the end, for me, the vaccines are available to those who wish to protect themselves in that manner, and that ought to be the end of it. If they work (and evidence supports their efficacy) and you've gotten it, you shouldn't concern yourself with whether or not others have done the same. It's not like covid is going to vanish. Just like the common flu, it's here to stay.

So many seem fixated on the extremists, which are, and have always been, an incredibly small minority. But many cannot cope with any difference in perspective, justified or not. We live in a world that will always have varying points of view, and if we're to consider ourselves a society - a collective where we all have worth - allowances have to be made for differences. Otherwise, we walk the road of authoritarianism, and we can see from (relatively recent) human history, the outcomes of that path.

 

[ultrazilla]

 

[Nobody_Important]

How many times? In a country of 330 million people? Again, perspective.

The fact that the level of misinformation and ignorance around Covid has gotten soo bad that multiple people took fucking horse medication instead of going to Walgreens to get a free vaccine should be of concern to everyone. And those are just the cases we know about. Who knows how much wonky shit people are doing instead of just getting the damn vaccine.


The level of ignorance on display when it comes to Covid and the vaccine is genuinely alarming.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Mississippi State Epidemiologist Paul Byers wrote in a letter to the MS Health Alert Network that “at least 70 percent of the recent calls” have been related to the ingestion of ivermectin “purchased at livestock supply centers.”

70% of recent calls.

Percent makes one wonder the number calls they usually get, but that there was a warning from the State epidemiologist this doesn't appear to be a case of a one or two people.

Faddists, pushed on by the marching orders of misinformation. "Do you own research."

Ginger Ale don't cure COVID, Derrick!

 

[Nobody_Important]

70% of recent calls.

Percent makes one wonder the number calls they usually get, but that there was a warning from the State epidemiologist this doesn't appear to be a case of a one or two people.

Faddists, pushed on by the marching orders of misinformation. "Do you own research."

Ginger Ale don't cure COVID, Derrick!

70 fucking percent?????????


How stupid are these people?

 

[poppabk]

From what I remember ivermectin was considered early on due to promising in vitro studies and some in silica stuff. Then a few fringe doctors started making outlandish claims of curing COVID with it. It then kinda skipped the step of robust evidence of effectiveness, although people started on that.

But then a narrative emerged, (before we were confident that we would vaccines by 2022 even) that if everyone just took ivermectin or some regime along with HCQ and vitamin D, COVID would be effectively a non issue - but that this was being blocked or hidden by the powers that be. This is the narrative that has carried on into the vaccine era. Ivermectin is not just a symbol of antivax, it's also a symbol for anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-social distancing. It's basically the rallying standard for the people who thought/think that we really shouldn't do anything out of the ordinary to combat COVID, just treat it like we do the flu.

 

[Rentahamster]

But the hysteria around this pandemic is, despite the deaths we've incurred, overblown imho. I mean, double the amount of people died from heart disease last year, and the bulk of that was likely "voluntary" in the sense that people were abusing themselves with poor diet and sedentary lifestyles. Granted, heart disease isn't conventionally thought of as contagious, although you could make the argument that in a social context - via learned behaviors - it most certainly is. If you look at families who suffer from the effects of environmental heart disease (behavioral), it most certainly has the appearance of a contagion, albeit in a different manner of communicability. But that's a whole different conversation. We could also put (behavioral) diabetes, through all the mortality and illness associated, into the same mix. And these things also put society under a collective strain. Increased health insurance premiums, unnecessary stress on the healthcare system, familial stressors, and on and on.

False equivalence. You're comparing the contagiousness of a sociological phenomenon to the actual contagiousness of a virological phenomenon. Don't downplay the gravity of something that all of a sudden became the number 3 killer of people in the USA. The hysteria in opposition to a simple, safe, effective vaccine is what is actually overblown.

In the end, for me, the vaccines are available to those who wish to protect themselves in that manner, and that ought to be the end of it. If they work (and evidence supports their efficacy) and you've gotten it, you shouldn't concern yourself with whether or not others have done the same.

Whether or not I should concern myself with others is irrelevant to the fact that others who don't vaccinate are, via inaction, contributing to an increased level of danger for myself and the community. This is a fact. Other people being fat doesn't affect me directly. Unvaccinated people does affect me directly.

It's not like covid is going to vanish. Just like the common flu, it's here to stay.

False equivalence. COVID and the flu, being viruses, of course have some similarities, but the big difference staring us in the face is that COVID kills many many more people than the flu does. Not even the same ballpark in threat to society.

 

[Nobody_Important]

 

[FunkMiller]

70% of recent calls.

Percent makes one wonder the number calls they usually get, but that there was a warning from the State epidemiologist this doesn't appear to be a case of a one or two people.

Faddists, pushed on by the marching orders of misinformation. "Do you own research."

Ginger Ale don't cure COVID, Derrick!

I cannot even begin to understand the rationale of 'I won't take this approved and tested vaccine that's been in billions of arms across the world, but I will take this horse pill with zero evidence that it does anything to the covid virus'.

...oh, wait. yes I can. Partisan morons who put their politics, beliefs and arrogance ahead of science and rationality.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Nobody_Important]

I mean.....

 

[DeafTourette]

How many times? In a country of 330 million people? Again, perspective.

So black people are 13% of the US population, so naturally they’re going to represent a smaller overall percentage of the unvaccinated. So let’s dispense with that right off the bat.

Currently, 40% of black people in the US are vaccinated. 50% of white peoples and 45% of Hispanics.

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

KFF is collecting and analyzing data on COVID-19 vaccinations by race/ethnicity to gain increased insight who is receiving the vaccine and whether some groups are facing disparities in vaccination.

www.kff.org

So black people currently are 10% behind Hispanics and 20% behind whites in vaccination rate. These are facts.

As to Alabama, while black people are between 12 and 13% of the population in the country, they are 27% of the population in Alabama. So they actual are over represented in that state, which as you said, had the lowest vaccination rate in the country.

This is further a problem because black people are represented disproportionately in statistics that are significant comorbidites with regards to covid, particularly diabetes, and they have also been over represented in terms of deaths from covid as a result. So vaccination in that particular population is even more important.

So the COVID rise in Alabama is the fault of black people who don't even represent HALF of that population, right? Despite a much larger white population that is unvaccinated? Am I hearing this right?

 

[DeepBreath87]

So the COVID rise in Alabama is the fault of black people who don't even represent HALF of that population, right? Despite a much larger white population that is unvaccinated? Am I hearing this right?

Are black people disproportionately unvaccinated or not?

 

[DeafTourette]

Are black people disproportionately unvaccinated or not?

I don't know. With far more white people being unvaccinated than Black people in the US (sheer numbers), you tell me.

 

[DeepBreath87]

I don't know. With far more white people being unvaccinated than Black people in the US (sheer numbers), you tell me.

What? Do you understand what the word disproportionately means?

 

[12Goblins]

I do feel bad for the nurses that worked their asses off in the entirety of 2020 while risking their own lives and of their loved ones only to get fired in 2021 if they choose not to get vaccinated. seems a little fucked. but I also understand if hospitals are bowing to popular demand as they are a business like any other

also it would help if they were just conscientious objectors, kept to themselves, and didn't peddle false conspiracy theories all over social media....

 

[synchronicity]

False equivalence. You're comparing the contagiousness of a sociological phenomenon to the actual contagiousness of a virological phenomenon. Don't downplay the gravity of something that all of a sudden became the number 3 killer of people in the USA. The hysteria in opposition to a simple, safe, effective vaccine is what is actually overblown.


Whether or not I should concern myself with others is irrelevant to the fact that others who don't vaccinate are, via inaction, contributing to an increased level of danger for myself and the community. This is a fact. Other people being fat doesn't affect me directly. Unvaccinated people does affect me directly.

False equivalence. COVID and the flu, being viruses, of course have some similarities, but the big difference staring us in the face is that COVID kills many many more people than the flu does. Not even the same ballpark in threat to society.

I find the hysteria to be pretty intense on both ends of the spectrum. The fact remains that many deaths occur, and have been occurring due to very preventable conditions, and nothing has been done, at least with any seriousness, to address those problems. Certainly nothing in the way of suggesting mandating a healthy life for the populace.

Other people being ill most certainly does impact us all. A gave a couple examples. The more sick, the higher insurance premiums for everyone. Why should I pay a greater cost because you can't stop shoving burgers into your hole? Also the strain on the healthcare system, which is a common refrain from those wishing for vaccine mandates, is a real thing. And there are plenty of others if we want to go down that rabbit hole.

People have been dying of the flu for a long, long time - and often in great numbers, but we don't talk vaccine passports/mandates, even though we lose many people to that virus, even today. What is the appropriate number of deaths to warrant mandates?

It's very clear to me that the only thing that will satisfy some (perhaps yourself) is an authoritarian approach to this pandemic. And when I look at human history, when the doors of authoritarianism are opened, it ends with far more dead than we'll likely ever see from covid.

 

[Jaysen]

I don't know. With far more white people being unvaccinated than Black people in the US (sheer numbers), you tell me.

And it isn’t black people running around like dumbfucks telling people they won’t wear masks or socially distance.

 

[12Goblins]

I don't know. With far more white people being unvaccinated than Black people in the US (sheer numbers), you tell me.

being vaccinated is 100% a class issue. all the rich white and black people are the first people in the vaccine lines.

 

[Rentahamster]

I find the hysteria to be pretty intense on both ends of the spectrum. The fact remains that many deaths occur, and have been occurring due to very preventable conditions, and nothing has been done, at least with any seriousness, to address those problems. Certainly nothing in the way of suggesting mandating a healthy life for the populace.

Other people being ill most certainly does impact us all. A gave a couple examples. The more sick, the higher insurance premiums for everyone. Why should I pay a greater cost because you can't stop shoving burgers into your hole? Also the strain on the healthcare system, which is a common refrain from those wishing for vaccine mandates, is a real thing. And there are plenty of others if we want to go down that rabbit hole.

You're not considering that the danger of COVID and the danger of being fat are on two different levels of harm. COVID is also contagious, with accurate mathematical models that can describe and predict its spread. Not the case with being fat.

Fat people don't overwhelm our hospitals. It is not the case where if I break my leg my care is delayed because there's too many fat people in the ICU. Doctors aren't holding protests and getting burned out of the job because of an epidemic of fat people.

False. Equivalence.

The fact remains that many deaths occur, and have been occurring due to very preventable conditions, and nothing has been done, at least with any seriousness, to address those problems.

Yes, very preventable. One or two simple shots in the arm. A lot easier than a lifestyle change.

People have been dying of the flu for a long, long time - and often in great numbers, but we don't talk vaccine passports/mandates, even though we lose many people to that virus, even today. What is the appropriate number of deaths to warrant mandates?

Is the flu as deadly as COVID? No. Your flu comparison is irrelevant.

It's very clear to me that the only thing that will satisfy some (perhaps yourself) is an authoritarian approach to this pandemic. And when I look at human history, when the doors of authoritarianism are opened, it ends with far more dead than we'll likely ever see from covid.

You must have missed the many times I prioritize freedom and individual liberty as a valuable principle.

 

[Punished Miku]

being vaccinated is 100% a class issue. all the rich white and black people are the first people in the vaccine lines

The vaccine is free. I think we're making excuses for people.

The only thing that could really be a hindrance is being free during normal business hours, which is difficult for some people with multiple jobs or odd shifts.

We're past the point of the vaccine being unavailable to people. Everyone in a third world country has a harder time getting it than any working poor person in the US. It's available if they want to go get it.

 

[12Goblins]

The vaccine is free. I think we're making excuses for people.

The only thing that could really be a hindrance is being free during normal business hours, which is difficult for some people with multiple jobs or odd shifts.

We're past the point of the vaccine being unavailable to people. Everyone in a third world country has a harder time getting it than any working poor person in the US. It's available if they want to go get it.

doesn't have anything to do with availability. poor people have real problems getting by every day, don't see doctors, and covid is just a drop in the sea of all their other medical issues that they are already non compliant with. these people owe money, have terrible support systems, and have to make 5 different things work in order to get a ride somewhere

that's why I'm left scratching my head when people want to discriminate against people who aren't vaccinated (ie triaging care). it's going to be poor black people who are already getting fucked by life who are going to get fucked even more I feel like. I could be wrong though

 

[Nobody_Important]

Why the hell are we talking about race?

 

[synchronicity]

You're not considering that the danger of COVID and the danger of being fat are on two different levels of harm. COVID is also contagious, with accurate mathematical models that can describe and predict its spread. Not the case with being fat.

Fat people don't overwhelm our hospitals. It is not the case where if I break my leg my care is delayed because there's too many fat people in the ICU. Doctors aren't holding protests and getting burned out of the job because of an epidemic of fat people.

False. Equivalence.


Yes, very preventable. One or two simple shots in the arm. A lot easier than a lifestyle change.


Is the flu as deadly as COVID? No. Your flu comparison is irrelevant.



You must have missed the many times I prioritize freedom and individual liberty as a valuable principle.

Yes, more people die from being fat, and the causes of the spread are well-known and preventable. If all the voluntarily ill weren't in the hospitals, no one could claim that covid *is* overwhelming our hospitals because there would be room.

I have plenty more to say, but this issue is obviously very divisive and I don't think we'll see eye to eye. As a free being, you got vaccinated and are protected. From my perspective, you should be at peace with that, unless you imagine that we're going to somehow eradicate covid, which many experts find implausible. And the vaccine is widely available to many who wish to get it. But, I assume we'll see more outcry for mandates as this marches on.

 

[Punished Miku]

doesn't have anything to do with availability. poor people have real problems getting by every day, don't see doctors, and covid is just a drop in the sea of all their other medical issues. these people owe money, and have to make 5 different things work in order to get a ride somewhere

that's why I'm left scratching my head when people want to discriminate against people who aren't vaccinated (ie triaging care). it's going to be poor black people who are already fucked by life who are going to get fucked even harder I feel like

I grew up poor and didn't have health insurance until I was in my 20s and got it myself. I didn't go to the doctor much.

People can make it to a grocery store to get food every week. Vaccines are at most pharmacies (many in grocery stores). I'm sure it's tougher for some people, but it's literally one of the easiest things to get done.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Why the hell are we talking about race?

Unsure about the way we ended up on the subject today.

A few weeks back while looking for information on Indigenous vaccination rates I posted a study I found regarding vaccine hesitancy and black people in Canada.
Some conclusions should be similar to what's found in America. A couple key points backs up the underlying premise of what Jaysen was saying above. That black people have other concerns than promoting the misapprehension of the ideology of "freedom" and promoting antivaxx.

Increasing SARS-CoV-2 vaccination rates among Black people in Canada

KEY POINTS In June 2020, Public Health Ontario started collecting data on race of patients with COVID-19, after months of community advocacy. It soon became apparent that Black people were disproportionately infected with SARS-CoV-2 in the province. According to the first data released by the

www.cmaj.ca

Vaccine hesitancy in Black communities is not merely because of misinformation or gaps in health literacy; it is linked to medical distrust and structural racism.

health care experiences of Black people are affected by historical and present-day anti-Black racism

These are valid concerns. Hopefully there's some altruism left in the tank.

 

[Dr_Salt]

And I haven’t suggested that anyone in this thread has. I was commenting on the general (ridiculous) discussion that anyone has been doing it. I think you should probably be the one looking at things again, or at least not get so hot under the collar when you‘re not sure of the intent of someone else’s post.

Nah I have been pretty chill compared to some people here who actually seem to express some psycho comments and I know exactly what I want to say when typing something but thanks for the tip.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Unsure about the way we ended up on the subject today.

A few weeks back while looking for information on Indigenous vaccination rates I posted a study I found regarding vaccine hesitancy and black people in Canada.
Some conclusions should be similar to what's found in America. A couple key points backs up the underlying premise of what Jaysen was saying above. That black people have other concerns than promoting the misapprehension of the ideology of "freedom" and promoting antivaxx.

Increasing SARS-CoV-2 vaccination rates among Black people in Canada

KEY POINTS In June 2020, Public Health Ontario started collecting data on race of patients with COVID-19, after months of community advocacy. It soon became apparent that Black people were disproportionately infected with SARS-CoV-2 in the province. According to the first data released by the

www.cmaj.ca

These are valid concerns. Hopefully there's some altruism left in the tank.

Those are not valid concerns. They are just as bad as all the other excuses people make.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Those are not valid concerns.

They are.

Edit: Oh, wait. I get what you're implying.

I wasn't saying the concerns were valid in the sense of there being a real threat. It's that there is a valid history for them to feel that way.

 

[DeepBreath87]

They are.

Oh? Those are good reason not to get the vaccine then? Or are they stupid ones? I’ve been told anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated is an idiot by people In this thread. Well looks at all the idiots not getting the vaccine because…. Racism I guess? This would be the first time you’ve made some kind of exception for people having a foolish reason not to get the vaccine.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Oh? Those are good reason not to get the vaccine then? Or are they stupid ones. Because this would be the first time you’ve made some kind of exception for people having a foolish reason not to get the vaccine.

read edit. You should have articulated that is how you interpreted me instead of leaving me to psychically probe your mind.

 

[DeepBreath87]

read edit. You should have articulated that is how you interpreted me instead of leaving me to psychically probe your mind.

They simply are not valid concerns. Pfizer isn’t trying to poison black people. If someone believes that, they’re as ignorant as the guy who thinks there is a nanochip in these things.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

They simply are not valid concerns. Pfizer isn’t trying to poison black people. If someone believes that, they’re as ignorant as the guy who thinks there is a nanochip in these things.

Yes, ofc. You're still arguing against the wording , not the intended meaning which was clarified.

 

[poppabk]

I find the hysteria to be pretty intense on both ends of the spectrum. The fact remains that many deaths occur, and have been occurring due to very preventable conditions, and nothing has been done, at least with any seriousness, to address those problems. Certainly nothing in the way of suggesting mandating a healthy life for the populace.

Even suggesting a 'healthy lifestyle' is a massively complicated issue. I bet you couldn't get two people to agree on what that would comprise. People shit on the food pyramid and the push for reducing fat in the diet - but if people had actually followed the dietary guidelines we would not have an obesity epidemic. All that happened was people continued to increase their fat intake every year and added extra carbs. It failed not because it was fundamentally flawed from a dietary intake perspective but because of the psychology of the populace.
So good luck with a healthy lifestyle mandate where we can't even agree on the basics of what that would involve, and if we do agree we will probably be wrong, and will take decades to come to fruition for good or bad.
Besides a lot of companies already punish people for being obese by increased insurance premiums.

For COVID it's just a vaccine, everyone agrees it works, it's quick, and cheap (free).

You are basically saying that if we don't put in enough effort trying to solve the most complicated health problem ever faced, why even bother tackling a very simple problem with an obvious and easy solution.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Yes, ofc. You're still arguing against the wording , not the intended meaning which was clarified.

Because you’re trying to draw some distinction between a white guy who thinks Pfizer is trying to poison them and a black person who thinks essentially the same thing. Otherwise, I still don’t understand what you meant by “valid”.

It's that there is a valid history for them to feel that way.

No there isn’t. This isn’t the US government injecting black people in some kind of experiment. If anyone who goes unvaccinated is an idiot or stupid or whatever other insults get to throw around in this thread, black people who decide to go unvaccinated don’t get some kind of pass on that just because it might make people uncomfortable.

 

[Slaylock]

My wife has an auto-immune disorder. She has had very negative reactions to medication and vaccines in the past. She has spoken to several doctors, some of whom recommend the vaccine, other recommend against it. She also has several friends that have had negative reactions to the vaccine (more tired, muscle aches, etc).

Based on this, she has been hesitant to get the vaccine. Would the pro-vaccine crowd here decry her as an anti-vaxxer? Would you force the vaccine upon her? Should she be robbed of the right to go out in public without the vaccine?

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Because you’re trying to draw some distinction between a white guy who thinks Pfizer is trying to poison them and a black person who thinks essentially the same thing. Otherwise, I still don’t understand what you meant by “valid”.

No there isn’t. This isn’t the US government injecting black people in some kind of experiment. If anyone who goes unvaccinated is an idiot or stupid or whatever other insults get to throw around in this thread, black people who decide to go unvaccinated don’t get some kind of pass on that just because it might make people uncomfortable.

One has a genuine historical precedent of systemic racism contributing to valid emotional reaction that leads to an incorrect conclusion. This can be reasoned with.

The other has no genuine precedent thus no valid emotional reaction. They're completely irrational and can only be dealt with by legislation and mandatory vaccinations.

 

[Jaysen]

My wife has an auto-immune disorder. She has had very negative reactions to medication and vaccines in the past. She has spoken to several doctors, some of whom recommend the vaccine, other recommend against it. She also has several friends that have had negative reactions to the vaccine (more tired, muscle aches, etc).

Based on this, she has been hesitant to get the vaccine. Would the pro-vaccine crowd here decry her as an anti-vaxxer? Would you force the vaccine upon her? Should she be robbed of the right to go out in public without the vaccine?

Is she running around like an idiot telling everyone to avoid the vaccine because of her unique experience? Is she violently anti-mask? There’s your answer.