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[EviLore]

It can. Chris Hedges is one of my favorite journalists ever, and that's what he studied at Harvard I believe. If you ever watch a lot of the early Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins debates against academic theologians, you can tell that they're basically at the same level as well read, elite history professors. And that's basically what they are at the end of the day, and usually are just doing history research on old written works.

Exactly.

 

[Rentahamster]

So putting something against a working treatment as a control group wont show if a drug works? I mean, why not? Shouldnt a new drug at least be comparable to the current working drugs and be just as safe or safer?

I really dont understand why there needs to be specifically a placebo control group at all. You just need to show that a drug works better than the current ones right?

Just because you take a placebo as part of a control group doesn't mean you can't take other treatments as well, unless that's part of the study guidelines too.

 

[Thesuffering79]

Just because you take a placebo as part of a control group doesn't mean you can't take other treatments as well, unless that's part of the study guidelines too.

So why do so many do it? And secondly doesnt that put a new unknown variable into the mix? Why not just give the current standard treatment in place of the placebo?

 

[Chaplain]

wait, seminaries ask for credible sources? ( •́ ͜ʖ •̀ )

lol

 

[EviLore]

Design and Interpretation of Clinical Trials

Offered by Johns Hopkins University. Clinical trials are experiments designed to evaluate new interventions to prevent or treat disease in ... Enroll for free.

www.coursera.org

 

[Thesuffering79]

lol

It really depends on the seminary. Jesuit seminaries were where the first idea that the world was round and the big bang came from. I doubt pentacostal seminaries could get something like that.

 

[Rentahamster]

So why do so many do it? And secondly doesnt that put a new unknown variable into the mix? Why not just give the current standard treatment in place of the placebo?

The main point is that if you want to test the efficacy of Ivermectin, you randomly select a bunch of people and put them in two groups. Simply explained -

Ivermectin group gets the ivermectin, and then goes on with their lives as normal, which includes seeking other treatments or doing whatever they want with their lives.

Control group gets the placebo that only looks like ivermectin, and then goes on with their lives as normal, which includes seeking other treatments or doing whatever they want with their lives.

Wait a while.

Look back and see what the differences are between the two groups. If the two groups were randomly selected, and if there's a large enough sample size, the biggest variable between the two groups should be the ivermectin use. If there's a difference in outcomes between the two groups, then you could make a case that it was the ivermectin that made the difference.

 

[Thaedolus]

lol

I made a joke about it earlier but the truth is Wikipedia is absolutely fine for getting info, even if it’s not fine to use as a primary source. The articles are only as strong as the primary sources they cite, which are often absolutely credible. So the blanket rule of just writing off Wikipedia entirely isn’t the way to go, but neither is citing Wikipedia as a primary source. If someone in here is sending you a wiki link all you have to do is check the sources, which all articles have

 

[Thesuffering79]

The main point is that if you want to test the efficacy of Ivermectin, you randomly select a bunch of people and put them in two groups. Simply explained -

Ivermectin group gets the ivermectin, and then goes on with their lives as normal, which includes seeking other treatments or doing whatever they want with their lives.

Control group gets the placebo that only looks like ivermectin, and then goes on with their lives as normal, which includes seeking other treatments or doing whatever they want with their lives.

Wait a while.

Look back and see what the differences are between the two groups. If the two groups were randomly selected, and if there's a large enough sample size, the biggest variable between the two groups should be the ivermectin use. If there's a difference in outcomes between the two groups, then you could make a case that it was the ivermectin that made the difference.

Fair enough. That seems at least fair. So why are many studies strict with their placebo guidelines?

 

[Thaedolus]

Fair enough. That seems at least fair. So why are many studies strict with their placebo guidelines?

It’s a matter of eliminating as many variables as possible to provide an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Thesuffering79]

It’s a matter of eliminating as many variables as possible to provide an apples to apples comparison.

So why not use a known treatment that is a known quantity as placebo? Shouldnt by using math detect anomalies and give apples to apples comparisons? I mean if the known treatment performs the same as it usually does, doesnt that eliminate the variables? If not it is easy to tell something is wrong?

 

[Punished Miku]

So why not use a known treatment that is a known quantity as placebo? Shouldnt by using math detect anomalies and give apples to apples comparisons? I mean if the known treatment performs the same as it usually does, doesnt that eliminate the variables? If not it is easy to tell something is wrong?

Drug interactions are numerous, and incredibly common. I think they just try to start from ground zero and build a base of accurate knowledge 1 step at a time.

 

[Thaedolus]

So why not use a known treatment that is a known quantity as placebo? Shouldnt by using math detect anomalies and give apples to apples comparisons? I mean if the known treatment performs the same as it usually does, doesnt that eliminate the variables? If not it is easy to tell something is wrong?

I’ll caveat this by saying I’m not an expert on clinical trials though I have some experience with them: you compare the efficacy of another treatment which itself has been compared against a placebo. You could probably run a trial with multiple treatments compared against placebo but I would think the resources required and complexity of such a trial would multiply very quickly. Also, there’s very little reason to think these alternative treatments actually do anything, so allocating resources to them when we have vaccines that definitively work is a waste. Still, if someone has the money to study them and they actually turn out to work, have at it

 

[ManaByte]

Your turn, Sony.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Your turn, Sony.

The fact that this needs to be said is a fucking tragedy.

To dispel some common COVID-19 vaccine myths: the vaccines don't contain microchips or magnets, they don't alter your DNA, they don't give you COVID-19, and there is no evidence they have any impact on pregnancy or fertility.

 

[Chaplain]

"“After COVID” is hard to imagine, as is just how long it will take us—globally, nationally, regionally— to get there. The term “new normal” has already become old and overused, but what does it really mean? The truth is that we can’t provide any concrete answers to this complex question, but we can examine empirical patterns that are already observable.

A panel including Dr. Michael Osterholm, White House advisor, epidemiologist and Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota; Rachel Silverman, policy fellow Center for Global Development, and Dr. Amesh Adalja Johns Hopkins, Center for Global Health and Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security will predict what might change fundamentally and what lessons about preparedness we will have learned." (8/25/21)

"Infectious disease expert Dr. Michael Osterholm discusses the delta variant, the right type of mask to wear and more." (8/25/21)

 

[Thesuffering79]

Drug interactions are numerous, and incredibly common. I think they just try to start from ground zero and build a base of accurate knowledge 1 step at a time.

I’ll caveat this by saying I’m not an expert on clinical trials though I have some experience with them: you compare the efficacy of another treatment which itself has been compared against a placebo. You could probably run a trial with multiple treatments compared against placebo but I would think the resources required and complexity of such a trial would multiply very quickly. Also, there’s very little reason to think these alternative treatments actually do anything, so allocating resources to them when we have vaccines that definitively work is a waste. Still, if someone has the money to study them and they actually turn out to work, have at it

I understand. I just feel there has to be a better way. Letting some of a group of people die seems unethical.

 

[ManaByte]

Britain's vaccination rate is a huge magnitude higher than in the US. But bury that lede.

 

[MScarpa]

I have a question for the non vaccine and mask people....
In exchange for not having to wear a mask and get the vaccine, would you waive your right to covid care if you got sick?
You get a special little card, says you don't need to wear a mask or get the vaccine, you're exempt from all the bullshit. You go about your life just like the old days before the pandemic. But, if you get sick with covid, you can't seek help or treatment at the hospital. That's the deal.

Right now our hospitals are being ravaged by unvaccinated people and now people are literally dying because they can't get a bed.
WHATS SAY YOU.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

A quick Google search will show multiple results on why Universities do not allow Wikipedia use:

Yeah, Wikipedia is not a primary source and shouldn't be used in academic papers. But how is it any less reliable than the YouTube clips and tweets that you post throughout this thread? If you think Wikipedia is unreliable just because your professors said so, you missed the point.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

So willing putting lives at risk like that with no chance of the treatment working is fine to you?

The control group can include placebo + standard of care. Not sure where you're getting the idea that it doesn't.

 

[Chaplain]

Yeah, Wikipedia is not a primary source and shouldn't be used in academic papers. But how is it any less reliable than the YouTube clips and tweets that you post throughout this thread? If you think Wikipedia is unreliable just because your professors said so, you missed the point.

I did not miss the point but do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me. ^_^

I think going forward it would be better to give the person posting the benefit of the doubt by asking them to clarify what they meant by their comments (multiple times since the pandemic started readers have accused others of things that are untrue). Reading things into a person's comments (presupposing that the reader's interpretations of what the other is saying are absolute) does a disservice to dialogue and hinders communication.

edited

 

[Loki]

I also got vaccinated early. I was kind of hoping to stick with Novavax for my next round but they're taking forever to get supply up to roll out so I might just get a Pfizer or something.

Where/when is Novavax going to be released first? Last I heard the FDA sent them back to the drawing board here in the US due to their manufacturing not being up to spec (supposedly - I don't completely buy that).

 

[molasar]

I have a question for the non vaccine and mask people....
In exchange for not having to wear a mask and get the vaccine, would you waive your right to covid care if you got sick?
You get a special little card, says you don't need to wear a mask or get the vaccine, you're exempt from all the bullshit. You go about your life just like the old days before the pandemic. But, if you get sick with covid, you can't seek help or treatment at the hospital. That's the deal.

Right now our hospitals are being ravaged by unvaccinated people and now people are literally dying because they can't get a bed.
WHATS SAY YOU.

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

 

[ManaByte]

Last I heard the FDA sent them back to the drawing board here in the US due to their manufacturing not being up to spec (supposedly - I don't completely buy that).

Sounds like that came off some Facebook meme image.

 

[Thesuffering79]

I have a question for the non vaccine and mask people....
In exchange for not having to wear a mask and get the vaccine, would you waive your right to covid care if you got sick?
You get a special little card, says you don't need to wear a mask or get the vaccine, you're exempt from all the bullshit. You go about your life just like the old days before the pandemic. But, if you get sick with covid, you can't seek help or treatment at the hospital. That's the deal.

Right now our hospitals are being ravaged by unvaccinated people and now people are literally dying because they can't get a bed.
WHATS SAY YOU.

I am happy with that.

 

[Dr_Salt]

I have a question for the non vaccine and mask people....
In exchange for not having to wear a mask and get the vaccine, would you waive your right to covid care if you got sick?
You get a special little card, says you don't need to wear a mask or get the vaccine, you're exempt from all the bullshit. You go about your life just like the old days before the pandemic. But, if you get sick with covid, you can't seek help or treatment at the hospital. That's the deal.

Right now our hospitals are being ravaged by unvaccinated people and now people are literally dying because they can't get a bed.
WHATS SAY YOU.

I'm not from the US and I'm not 100% sure how your public health system works but if you pay taxes then why should you have to waive your right to a public system you are paying for?

 

[CherryFalls]

More likely to have a blood clot from covid, than you are from the vaccine

COVID-19: Blood clot risk much higher from the virus than from the vaccine, study finds

The research, which used findings from more than 29 million people, found there is still a risk after having the jab - but it is "considerably higher" in someone who has the virus.

news.sky.com

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

 

[ManaByte]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

 

[EviLore]

There's an endless supply of them. The internet sure has changed in the past 15 years.

 

[Thaedolus]

Sounds like that came off some Facebook meme image.

I highly doubt “back to the drawing board” is accurate but if they had major findings I could see there being delays until they’re resolved. But it’s important to note that half the battle with regulatory agencies is clearly communicating how X Y and Z have been done to meet their requirements, not that X Y and Z haven’t been done or are somehow problematic. There are numerous checks in place to stop something before it gets to a regulatory review if there’s an actual issue. Almost all the follow up I have to deal with is rubbing noses in the evidence we have or just pointing them where they need to go to find the info they need

 

[nush]

There's an endless supply of them. The internet sure has changed in the past 15 years.

That's what happens when the masses have the internet in their pocket and there's no cool off period between thought and post..

 

[FunkMiller]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

I… I… I…

…fuck it. Spongebob, do your business:

 

[Nobody_Important]

Well isn't this just fucking great. Earlier in the thread I mentioned how my boss sent out a notice that someone had tested positive on Monday in our department and that I have an appointment to get tested tomorrow? I was off today for other reasons, but I kinda felt like crap. Now that I am sitting here and actually thinking about it I am short of breath, nose is running, and I have a low grade fever. And the runny nose has been a thing since Tuesday, but I was thinking it was allergies because of the weather. The shortness of breath and fever started today though while I was running errands across town and I thought that was because it was just hot as fuck today. But now I am on my couch and I feel like I just walked up a flight of stairs even though I am just sitting here.

 

[ManaByte]

Made a thread about those Xbox tweets:

 

[EviLore]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

 

[MScarpa]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

WHAT THE FUCK? LOL

 

[molasar]

And your arguments are?

BTW I will purchase High End Gaming PC, Xbox Series X and PS5 consoles for one user who can undeniably prove an existence of disease causing biological viruses.

 

[12Goblins]

Covid is a fictional disease. No virus has ever been proven to exist by direct real time observation, visualization, acquirement, purification, characterization and verification. I mean all so called disease causing bio viruses.

In regards to vaccines. No vaccine ever has been tested by having injected subjects exposed to purified viruses as it allegedly occurs in nature.

No immune system with memory has been proven either.

Levels of antibodies depend on damage that occurs in our bodies, i.e., less damage means less antibodies required. High levels of them disrupt standard physiological processes.

In hospitals there are only people affected by one or more of the 6 factors, i.e., stress, toxins, malnutrition, unnatural EMF radiation, physical trauma and aging.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Made a thread about those Xbox tweets:

The Mods

 

[ManaByte]

BTW I will purchase High End Gaming PC, Xbox Series X and PS5 consoles for one user

Biology of Viruses and Viral Diseases

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I want a 3090ti, a 2TB M2 PCIE4 SSD, 8TB storage drive, full liquid cooling in a Corsair case with front intake fans and full LED.

 

[molasar]

You can always prove me wrong and win cool rewards.

 

[Thaedolus]

Well isn't this just fucking great. Earlier in the thread I mentioned how my boss sent out a notice that someone had tested positive on Monday in our department and that I have an appointment to get tested tomorrow? I was off today for other reasons, but I kinda felt like crap. Now that I am sitting here and actually thinking about it I am short of breath, nose is running, and I have a low grade fever. And the runny nose has been a thing since Tuesday, but I was thinking it was allergies because of the weather. The shortness of breath and fever started today though while I was running errands across town and I thought that was because it was just hot as fuck today. But now I am on my couch and I feel like I just walked up a flight of stairs even though I am just sitting here.

Can I direct you to the closest veterinary supply store?

In all seriousness, take care brother. You might be in for a bit of a rough go if you’ve got it, but you’ll make it. Do update your status

 

[MScarpa]

I'm not from the US and I'm not 100% sure how your public health system works but if you pay taxes then why should you have to waive your right to a public system you are paying for?

The point of my question is our hospitals in the United States have no more room. They are full of non vaccinated people with covid. There is no more room for people who have heart attacks, strokes, etc. There have been people that have died in the ER, because they couldn't get a bed.

My point is, if you don't want to wear a mask or get the vaccine that's fine but don't come crying and need help when you're dying. Stay the fuck home. Don't take beds away from people who need them.

 

[molasar]

Be my quest. I am waiting for your scientific evidence which can't be disproven logically or by control experiments where applicable.

 

[ManaByte]

Be my quest. I am waiting for your scientific evidence which can't be disproven logically or by control experiments where applicable.

Biology of Viruses and Viral Diseases

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I want a 3090ti, a 2TB M2 PCIE4 SSD, 8TB storage drive, full liquid cooling in a Corsair case with front intake fans and full LED.

 

[MScarpa]

Well isn't this just fucking great. Earlier in the thread I mentioned how my boss sent out a notice that someone had tested positive on Monday in our department and that I have an appointment to get tested tomorrow? I was off today for other reasons, but I kinda felt like crap. Now that I am sitting here and actually thinking about it I am short of breath, nose is running, and I have a low grade fever. And the runny nose has been a thing since Tuesday, but I was thinking it was allergies because of the weather. The shortness of breath and fever started today though while I was running errands across town and I thought that was because it was just hot as fuck today. But now I am on my couch and I feel like I just walked up a flight of stairs even though I am just sitting here.

Did you get the vaccine by chance?

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

C Corndog
Dr. Malone didn't invent the mRNA vaccine. Neither did he invent the mRNA technology. What he did was developing a method to get RNA into cells. Considering literally thousands of people worked on the technology behind it and the fact that it continuously evolves, it is disingenuous to claim he is the inventor.

This is his contribution:

Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection

We have developed an efficient and reproducible method for RNA transfection, using a synthetic cationic lipid, N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N-trimethylammonium chloride (DOTMA), incorporated into a liposome (lipofectin). Transfection of 10 ng to 5 micrograms of Photinus pyralis luciferase...

www.pnas.org

It's important to consider that this was in 1989, years before the clinical application in humans, which he didn't contributed to.