Thesuffering79
Banned
The problem with not admitting people into the hospital beds is you will have a problem where the infected are all over the place. Hard to slow down virus if there are nodes everywhere.
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Thaedolus
Member
Nah, I get the arguments against the draconian lockdowns and such. The thing about America is our states have much more say in how that all plays out than our federal government, and it’s easy to see the differences in the effects various policies have. This makes me think there’s not one perfect solution to anything, and America certainly isn’t some shining example of success considering how many deaths we’ve had. But- I got to make a joke, so I got that going for me, which is nice.
edit: the council has reported back that you’re going to jail
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Dr_Salt
Banned
Fair enough. Same thing happens in my country the difference is the system is always obliterated even before covid. Like you said there are people who don't pay but still get treatment. People who pay have to wait literal months to get medical attention. I know cancer patients with very serious cases that have had to wait months to get an appointment and sometimes years until they get proper treatment.
This is why I am asking about how it works in the US. Thank you for responding without putting your emotions in the way.
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IIRC a lot of this gained traction with the theory that HIV was just a marker for primarily drug induced immunosuporession, not the causitive agent. This can be demonstrably proven false, it's basically flat earther level discussion.
Fact check: Viruses harmful to humans are proven to exist
A Facebook post with over 350 shares as of May 25, 2020 falsely claims that deadly viruses are a “hoax” and that no virus harmful to humans has been shown to exist.www.reuters.com
I think I found the stupid ass conspiracy theory this guy is parroting
But he is right that it is REALLY hard to watch viruses while they work
Dr_Salt
Banned
I'm honestly just trying to have a conversation and understand the whole point of some arguments here. I don't mean to disrespect anyone or have anything personal against anyone here
DeaDPo0L84
Member
I like that you find opportunities to somehow work in a subtle jab concerning your personal political beliefs surrounding a topic that really shouldn't be political at all.
The person you were conversing with is obviously a moron, nothing more nothing less.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I did answer it in a rational and EXTREMELY direct way. Looks like I gave you the benefit of the doubt when I shouldn't have.
Thaedolus
Member
I’m just kidding about the ad hominem stuff, sorry if that wasn’t clear.I'm honestly just trying to have a conversation and understand the whole point of some arguments here. I don't mean to disrespect anyone or have anything personal against anyone here
Dr_Salt
Banned
I know man haha don't worry.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
They didn't actually submit in the US yet, they are going for WHO approval first because the international market is bigger.
Hoddi
Member
It's a bigger logistical problem than that. Every COVID patient admitted needs to be completely isolated from other non-COVID patients which means that entire hospital wings need to be dedicated solely to COVID patients.
If your hospital previously had two surgical wards then it may now only have one.
VAVA Mk2
Member
You are a Goddamn moron. My parents, in-laws, and sister had it (my sister and mom almost were hospitalized), and my sister-in-law is director of emergency medicine at a major hospital in my state and has written medical text books and tells me and my wife how bad it is every week. Go back to 4Chan.
MScarpa
Member
Are you triggered man? You ok? Maybe all the crazies in Cape got you worried.
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MScarpa
Member
It's a hoax man. It's just the flu. 99.999999 people have no issues. Why would they need to go to the hospital? Hahaha "you can find me....."
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Regarding lag:
Interior restrictions stated at end of July for the wave.
About 2 weeks after to level as shown(same as last year waves):
Rest of BC is now under new restrictions.
2 weeks until level off? Sept. 10th. Autumn factors and new opening rules with vaccine passport might bump cases two weeks after that.
->Usual friendly reminder to always keep in mind to watch cases vs hospitalizations and icu.
BC CMOH keeps as much data private as possible. A little frustrating for objective research by us on the outside, but understandable(I appreciate the broader implication of the gesture on my personal date) if you don't want people with low medical literacy and situational awareness jumping to conclusions and vociferously recommending poorly considered drastic actions. Have to infer from other regions unless there's a need to know. Things can change.
Interesting consideration. Add it to the typhoid mary/zombie list of risks.
The unvaxxed should be keenly aware that they also shouldn't want hospitals to get to a triage situation where highest survival, vaccinated or other medical emergency, that needs icu gets priority.
That dude is probably a flat Earther as well. That "challenge" crap where no amount of proof is ever enough is right out out of the flat Earth playbook. Ironically, some moron's Facebook post or Youtube is plenty of proof though.IIRC a lot of this gained traction with the theory that HIV was just a marker for primarily drug induced immunosuporession, not the causitive agent. This can be demonstrably proven false, it's basically flat earther level discussion.
But he is right that it is REALLY hard to watch viruses while they work
zaanan
Banned
As a business owner whose business was absolutely disrupted to the point to where I am still reeling financially from the forced lockdowns due to a “pandemic” that has proven to be no more fatal than the yearly flu, I can attest it was ever so much more than that.The draconian US lockdowns where you couldn't go to the movie theater for one summer
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
COVID is an order of magnitude more deadly than the flu, even with all the restrictions we've been implementing. It was the number 3 cause of death in 2020.
Dr_Salt
Banned
Not trigerred but considering you double posted to answer my posts and tried to half ass a sarcastic answer shows maybe you are the one who got triggered. I bet you thought I wasn't vaxxed and were probably salivating at the thought of having the chance to say I told you so.
Also are you gonna argue about Covid having a 98-99% survival rate? Do you follow the science only when it supports your narrative?
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Err, no. I don't even read/use facebook. I just use my common sense, which looks at an upstart company funded by VC trying to stake a claim in the biggest market in the world against entrenched, well-connected, much larger pharm companies who already have approved vaccines on the market, one of which (at the time of NovaVax's censure by the FDA) was on the road to being fast-tracked for full approval. It is also the only "traditional" vaccine even close to market, and thus the one more likely to reach that segment of the "OMG ANTI-VAXXXXXXX" crowd who are skeptical of mRNA vaccines, and yet it's the only one which had the brakes put on it. Go figure.
Platinumstorm
Member
My unvaccinated patients are so sick compared to my vaccinated patients. I explain this to my unvaccinated patients, and I ask them to trust me, and they still decline the vaccine.
zaanan
Banned
Not sure how many people die from the flu where you are, but in the USA only 740 people died from the chinavirus from Mar 2020 - Mar 2021 with no comorbidities. This is according to the CDC:
(chart on page 9)
So please, do explain exactly how many “orders of magnitude more deadly than the flu” the chinavirus is where you live, with references. Thanks!
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I'm sorry about your business and financial woes, but please don't go this route. This is almost as bad as the guy that claimed viruses aren't real (or whatever flat earth level nonsense he was on about). Just focusing on the US, one could add up all of the deaths from influenza from 2016 until now and it would still only be a fraction of the deaths COVID-19 caused - even with extensive public health measures and rolling lockdowns in place.
Edit: nm, I can see from your next reply you're already too far gone
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BarringGaffner
Member
Wow, what an incredibly stupid post.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
There were less casualties last year because of all our mitigation efforts. Go look up the flu deaths each year for the last 20 years.
edit: Oh wait you were actually talking about something else and I didn't even realize it because I didn't think someone could make such a silly claim.
First of all that pdf you linked is just a survey of 800 hospitals and not all of the USA.
Second of all, only counting zero comorbidity deaths is cherry picking.
Thirdly, here's your reference according to the CDC since you've acknowledged they are a credible source.
Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020
The age-adjusted death rate increased by 15.9% in 2020. Overall death
www.cdc.gov
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Well isn't this just fucking great. Earlier in the thread I mentioned how my boss sent out a notice that someone had tested positive on Monday in our department and that I have an appointment to get tested tomorrow? I was off today for other reasons, but I kinda felt like crap. Now that I am sitting here and actually thinking about it I am short of breath, nose is running, and I have a low grade fever. And the runny nose has been a thing since Tuesday, but I was thinking it was allergies because of the weather. The shortness of breath and fever started today though while I was running errands across town and I thought that was because it was just hot as fuck today. But now I am on my couch and I feel like I just walked up a flight of stairs even though I am just sitting here.
Feel better. Hopefully it's not COVID. You're vaccinated, right? Did you also have COVID prior to vaccination? That's rough luck.
CAB_Life
Member
Mmkay. Since the Xbox thread was closed while I was typing this, here are my final thoughts before I leave this thread for good.
The problem with this discussion is that a number of facts/ circumstances can be true and exist independent of each other. Known facts:
All of the above statements are—to the best of my knowledge—factual and true. We have completely changed a dialog that should be naturally questioning into a reductionist “us” vs. “them”, which historically has no positive and mostly horrific outcomes. When you shut down curious thought—regardless of how stupid it may be—you push people to seek confirmation bias. A circumstance that has never been easier than in today’s day and age. I am pro-vaccine, but we need to stop a.) demeaning people who are not scientifically literate (the comparison to dogs and rats is particularly worrisome as the Nazi’s used the former lingo). b.) realize that this is an evolving and nuanced debate where we cannot completely predict the outcome or impact on our societies. I appreciate that recent Rogan podcast interview where the doctor claimed she “didn’t know”, even if that caused contention and confusion here or elsewhere. Because none of us really know how this will pan out, or what we’ll learn 5, 10 or 20 years past this current cycle of events.
I’m stressing the last paragraph, because whatever phase we next enter as a species, we will have to live with the consequences of our choices, of how we treated others, and of what kind of society we helped create.
Stay healthy and kind.
The problem with this discussion is that a number of facts/ circumstances can be true and exist independent of each other. Known facts:
- Vaccines save lives.
- The Cov-19 vaccine protects against the original strain and partially against the newer strain (we do not have long term data on efficacy, but Israel is a good metric).
- People such as Gates and other billionaires have profited, incredibly, during a period of crisis. NOTE: This does not indicate a conspiracy. However, as goes the old saying: “Never let a good crisis go to waste.”
- Places such as Sydney reveal the issues of mandating too much power to the government.
- We can mostly agree that the messaging around Covid and its protective measures have been horrendous on all fronts. Part of this is politics (which should have no place in this discussion), part of this is due to the evolving nature of this kind of event.
- Covid is fatal in people with four or more co-morbidities. Most common are respiratory issues, obesity and another very broad category I can’t decipher. 94-95% of the people who died had four or more co-morbidities present. Only 5-6% died from Covid alone—as marked on their death certificate. I am not clear on whether the non-preventable co-morbidities (i.e. Covid doesn’t make you fat but it certainly strains your respiratory and pulmonary systems, for example) existed previously or in isolation of contracting the illness. I would assume it’s safe to argue that the respiratory ones, in particular, may not.
- Covid is relatively non-fatal in athletic people; defined as 90 minutes of exercise, 5 days per week. See the South Korean study, which I believe has now been peer reviewed, on tens of thousands of individuals.
- Regardless of that statement, everyone would likely benefit from a vaccine, considering 99% of the population does not exist in a healthy biome, do consistent exercise, or even know how to attain a harmonic state with the body.
- From day zero, our governments should have been enacting health guidelines, strategies and bursaries to address many of the underlying co-morbidities that exacerbate the effects of Covid (and almost all preventable illnesses). I will continue to bandwagon that this has been a complete failure of our governments in pushing this message along with any vaccine strategy. We have been robbed of personal agency and kept mentally and physically weak, which only makes us more vulnerable to disease.
All of the above statements are—to the best of my knowledge—factual and true. We have completely changed a dialog that should be naturally questioning into a reductionist “us” vs. “them”, which historically has no positive and mostly horrific outcomes. When you shut down curious thought—regardless of how stupid it may be—you push people to seek confirmation bias. A circumstance that has never been easier than in today’s day and age. I am pro-vaccine, but we need to stop a.) demeaning people who are not scientifically literate (the comparison to dogs and rats is particularly worrisome as the Nazi’s used the former lingo). b.) realize that this is an evolving and nuanced debate where we cannot completely predict the outcome or impact on our societies. I appreciate that recent Rogan podcast interview where the doctor claimed she “didn’t know”, even if that caused contention and confusion here or elsewhere. Because none of us really know how this will pan out, or what we’ll learn 5, 10 or 20 years past this current cycle of events.
I’m stressing the last paragraph, because whatever phase we next enter as a species, we will have to live with the consequences of our choices, of how we treated others, and of what kind of society we helped create.
Stay healthy and kind.
CAB_Life
Member
That’s just not accurate about the 0 co-morbidities. 5-6% of 650K (as per the CDC data I liked in my post) is definitely not 740 people. I don’t know how he even arrived at that figure. Influenza is also listed as a co-morbidity in a vast percentage of the cases, too, which dispels the myth that it “vanished”.There were less casualties last year because of all our mitigation efforts. Go look up the flu deaths each year for the last 20 years.
edit: Oh wait you were actually talking about something else and I didn't even realize it because I didn't think someone could make such a silly claim.
First of all that pdf you linked is just a survey of 800 hospitals and not all of the USA.
Second of all, only counting zero comorbidity deaths is cherry picking.
Thirdly, here's your reference according to the CDC since you've acknowledged they are a credible source.
Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020
The age-adjusted death rate increased by 15.9% in 2020. Overall death
FunkMiller
Member
Nobody here wishes death on the unvaxxed.
We want them experimented on for several years in the bathroom from Saw, skinned like Uncle Frank from Hellraiser, lightly roasted over an open fire like a chestnut, and then maybe… maybe killed.
thefool
Member
Science | AAAS
It's related with a pre-print (and it's just observational data analysis) but goes in line with many other findings about our strong natural response:
SARS-CoV-2 infection rates of antibody-positive compared with antibody-negative health-care workers in England: a large, multicentre, prospective cohort study (SIREN) - PubMed
Department of Health and Social Care of the UK Government, Public Health England, The National Institute for Health Research, with contributions from the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Risk of Reinfection After Seroconversion to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2): A Population-based Propensity-score Matched Cohort Study
This matched cohort study nested in a representative sample of the general population, observed a 94% reduction in the hazard of being infected among SARS-
academic.oup.com
Assessment of SARS-CoV-2 Reinfection 1 Year After Primary Infection in a Population in Lombardy, Italy
This cohort study examines the rate of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection among people in Lombardy, Italy, who previously recovered from COVID-19.
jamanetwork.com
SARS-CoV-2 antibody-positivity protects against reinfection for at least seven months with 95% efficacy
Reinfection with the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) has been documented, raising public health concerns. SARS-CoV-2 rein…
www.sciencedirect.com
Association of SARS-CoV-2 Seropositive Antibody Test With Risk of Future Infection
This cohort study evaluates evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection based on diagnostic nucleic acid amplification test among patients who tested positive versus negative for antibodies.
jamanetwork.com
MisterFalcon
Member
You do have to take into account all the people who died on their initial exposure and as such will not be seen in your reinfection research.
Thaedolus
Member
-FDA fast tracked these, we can’t know they’re safe!
(FDA also sidelined one of companies for not being in compliance with their standards….)
-But they only came down on the one non-mRNA vaccine!
(But the J&J vaccine isn’t mRNA based and is widely distributed…)
I mean, a little consistency would be nice here
Jaysen
Banned
If your goal in life is to mislead others to risk their own lives and the lives of everyone around them, then yes I wish you the absolute fucking worst.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Can we bring Zefah back please. He was pursuing the truth and was intelligent, just coming at the issue from the opposite side.
Now we have COVID deniers and full on whacko complete virus deniers.
I slightly misspoke re: the tech. To my knowledge, Novavax is the only vaccine which does not instruct your cells to make spike protein, but rather simply delivers the spike protein for your immune system to recognize and produce antibodies to. Also, your first bullet is a non-sequitur with respect to my post, because as I noted the approved vaccines are made by extremely large, well-entrenched companies, and the financial/regulatory milieu is different now than it was 9-10 months ago. The motivations or incentives for "fast tracking" some vaccines and then 10 months later putting the brakes on another for non-compliance can be completely different, which was my point.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The immune system doesnt make the spike protein, regular cells make the spike protein and then the immune system detects the spike protein. This is one of the advantages of mRNA tech - as the spike protein is made in the cells it will also be broken down within the cells and allow the presentation of MHC class I restricted peptides that can generate a CD8 T-cell response.
Yes, I again misspoke (not fully awake yet). I am aware that it is regular cells which are instructed to make the spike protein and not immune cells. I've edited my post.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Just got back from my testing appointment. I'll be shocked if it doesn't come back positive though. I feel like hell today.
There are other viruses.. so it can be that you don’t have it .
Was he vaccinated ?
btw vaccinated people also carry COVID .. and spread it … vaccinated people can even get COVID symptoms… badly ..
Just saying
So?
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
alleged virus* deniers thank you
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ManaByte
Gold Member
They were in a bubble. Only explanation is it came from one of the shows they did.
FunkMiller
Member
"We used data from more than 800 US hospitals in the Premier Healthcare Database Special COVID-19 Release (PHD-SR) to describe hospitalized patients aged 18 years or older with COVID-19 from March 2020 through March 2021."
How many hospitals in USA: 6090.
Also, demonstrate your understanding of what a comorbidity is, please.
Dusktildawn48
Member
I'm getting the 1st shot Monday, I should feel good about this right? I've just been so hesitant.
Toons
Member
You're making the right decision.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Nah. With the positive test at the office this week and my very specific symptoms I'm pretty sure I have it. It would be too coincidental.
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zaanan
Banned
There were less casualties last year because of all our mitigation efforts. Go look up the flu deaths each year for the last 20 years.
edit: Oh wait you were actually talking about something else and I didn't even realize it because I didn't think someone could make such a silly claim.
First of all that pdf you linked is just a survey of 800 hospitals and not all of the USA.
Second of all, only counting zero comorbidity deaths is cherry picking.
Thirdly, here's your reference according to the CDC since you've acknowledged they are a credible source.
Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020
The age-adjusted death rate increased by 15.9% in 2020. Overall death
SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers - Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone - Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft
So let’s get this straight – based on the recommendation of doctors Fauci and Birx the US shut down the entire economy based on 9,000 American deaths due entirely to the China coronavirus?
www.thegatewaypundit.com