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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

Prison Mike

Banned
My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:

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see ya nacho GIF
 

Loki

Count of Concision
Nope. Very wrong.


Jesus. How can the headline of that article say "Data Suggests COVID Vax Highly Effective Against Contagious Delta Variant" and yet underneath that it says "Although these statistics are based on vaccine data from January to August, it wasn't until last month that the highly transmissible delta variant became the most dominant COVID-19 strain in New York City." So they use a data set of which, at most, 15% is relevant to their claim (since Delta became predominant in mid-late July) to support their headline. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Israeli or UK data, since they have a more complete data set, or to only use numbers from the last 4-6 weeks in NYC and not the last 7 months? How do things like this engender trust?

In fact, to its credit, NBC put this very question to Mayor DumbBlasio, and he responded with a clear dodge: "When NBC 4 New York asked Mayor Bill de Blasio if the data is too skewed to conditions before the delta variant took hold of city and therefore misleading, the mayor said "it is abundantly clear that unvaccinated people are in real danger and vaccinated people protected. We’ve got to keep showing people those facts.”" So basically a non-answer.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jesus. How can the headline of that article say "Data Suggests COVID Vax Highly Effective Against Contagious Delta Variant" and yet underneath that it says "Although these statistics are based on vaccine data from January to August, it wasn't until last month that the highly transmissible delta variant became the most dominant COVID-19 strain in New York City." So they use a data set of which, at most, 15% is relevant to their claim (since Delta became predominant in mid-late July) to support their headline. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Israeli or UK data, since they have a more complete data set, or to only use numbers from the last 4-6 weeks in NYC and not the last 7 months? How do things like this engender trust?

In fact, to its credit, NBC put this very question to Mayor DumbBlasio, and he responded with a clear dodge: "When NBC 4 New York asked Mayor Bill de Blasio if the data is too skewed to conditions before the delta variant took hold of city and therefore misleading, the mayor said "it is abundantly clear that unvaccinated people are in real danger and vaccinated people protected. We’ve got to keep showing people those facts.”" So basically a non-answer.
Dude, the tables I posted lists data from June to August. Look at the change in numbers there.
 

Loki

Count of Concision
Dude, the tables I posted lists data from June to August. Look at the change in numbers there.

I didn't notice that. I see it now. So it seems that, among the unvaccinated, hospitalizations have increased 250-300% (from 140-180 per day to ~500 per day) and deaths have increased about 200% (from 12-14 per day to 26-30 per day) over the time frame seen in the tables. I'd be curious to see the data laid out like this for 8/8-present - do you know if that's available somewhere? Or do we have to wait for the city to put out a report like this again at a later date?
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I didn't notice that. I see it now. So it seems that, among the unvaccinated, hospitalizations have increased 250-300% (from 140-180 per day to ~500 per day) and deaths have increased about 200% (from 12-14 per day to 26-30 per day) over the time frame seen in the tables. I'd be curious to see the data laid out like this for 8/8-present - do you know if that's available somewhere? Or do we have to wait for the city to put out a report like this again at a later date?
In general or just for NYC?

If in general, I just made a huge post about this.

 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I'd be curious to see the data laid out like this for 8/8-present - do you know if that's available somewhere? Or do we have to wait for the city to put out a report like this again at a later date?
The most recent reports are only until 8/7 because the most recent data is too new. However, just looking at the graphs, you can see where the trend is going.


There is a clear difference between the two populations.


dKjy9r7.png
cNz3c2B.png
 

QSD

Member

FunkMiller

Member

Loki

Count of Concision
The most recent reports are only until 8/7 because the most recent data is too new. However, just looking at the graphs, you can see where the trend is going.


There is a clear difference between the two populations.


dKjy9r7.png
cNz3c2B.png

Though I am adamantly against vaccine mandates (except perhaps for frontline healthcare workers), I never stated nor do I believe that the vaccines aren't efficacious. Obviously they are (though their waning efficacy against Delta - and possibly even lower efficacy against future variants - adds another wrinkle to the mandate discussion). So there's no need to make that case to me.
 

QSD

Member
Unfortunately, David Fuller's Ivermectin/Dark Horse videos have repeatedly been struck by the Youtube banhammer, even though he's fighting against misinformation often at significant cost to his own channel. If you appreciate his work and have the means, please take a moment to support him:

 
So I think I’ll step away from the thread. Before I do that, I’ll like to say I have no hard feelings about any of the interactions I’ve had here. Sometimes it was a bit contentious, which is a little unfortunate. I hope people can accept my apologies for my part in that. Its probably the nature of communicating in the internet. But I wish everyone the best. Take care of yourselves.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Though I am adamantly against vaccine mandates (except perhaps for frontline healthcare workers), I never stated nor do I believe that the vaccines aren't efficacious. Obviously they are (though their waning efficacy against Delta - and possibly even lower efficacy against future variants - adds another wrinkle to the mandate discussion). So there's no need to make that case to me.

You wanted to know what the most recent data is, and it's not available, so the next best thing is projections by extrapolating from the most recent trends. I'm trying to give you what you asked for.
 
These fucking idiots really are doing all the work for us, aren’t they?
Your schadenfreude is amazing...and not in a good way. I will say that in my experience, sooner or later, karma can be a real bitch. I hope the return energy is tolerable when it comes.

And in general, it amazes me how much glee some have for the misfortune of others. It doesn't matter if they make mistakes or not - or do something dumb - they're still people who love and are loved, and who bring goodness to *someone*. I mean, we love our pets, and they're (relatively) stupid. Doesn't our fellowman deserve the same decency. And if someone is truly lacking any degree of intelligence, don't they deserve empathy rather than scorn. I know it's the internet and people like to "take of the mask", but some of you are hiding a pretty sinister face underneath. I wonder if people close to you know who you are inside?
 
So I think I’ll step away from the thread. Before I do that, I’ll like to say I have no hard feelings about any of the interactions I’ve had here. Sometimes it was a bit contentious, which is a little unfortunate. I hope people can accept my apologies for my part in that. Its probably the nature of communicating in the internet. But I wish everyone the best. Take care of yourselves.

I’m curious to know why
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
So I think I’ll step away from the thread. Before I do that, I’ll like to say I have no hard feelings about any of the interactions I’ve had here. Sometimes it was a bit contentious, which is a little unfortunate. I hope people can accept my apologies for my part in that. Its probably the nature of communicating in the internet. But I wish everyone the best. Take care of yourselves.
godspeed and safe travels, fellow video game enthusiast

video games magic GIF
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Unfortunately, David Fuller's Ivermectin/Dark Horse videos have repeatedly been struck by the Youtube banhammer, even though he's fighting against misinformation often at significant cost to his own channel. If you appreciate his work and have the means, please take a moment to support him:


This seems pretty similar to Youtube's heavy handed issues with fair use and copyright.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Your schadenfreude is amazing...and not in a good way. I will say that in my experience, sooner or later, karma can be a real bitch. I hope the return energy is tolerable when it comes.

And in general, it amazes me how much glee some have for the misfortune of others. It doesn't matter if they make mistakes or not - or do something dumb - they're still people who love and are loved, and who bring goodness to *someone*. I mean, we love our pets, and they're (relatively) stupid. Doesn't our fellowman deserve the same decency. And if someone is truly lacking any degree of intelligence, don't they deserve empathy rather than scorn. I know it's the internet and people like to "take of the mask", but some of you are hiding a pretty sinister face underneath. I wonder if people close to you know who you are inside?

This holier than thou stuff is getting a bit tired, don’t you think? If you want sympathy for anti-vaxxers, look elsewhere. You’ll probably enjoy it more.
 
Your schadenfreude is amazing...and not in a good way. I will say that in my experience, sooner or later, karma can be a real bitch. I hope the return energy is tolerable when it comes.

And in general, it amazes me how much glee some have for the misfortune of others. It doesn't matter if they make mistakes or not - or do something dumb - they're still people who love and are loved, and who bring goodness to *someone*. I mean, we love our pets, and they're (relatively) stupid. Doesn't our fellowman deserve the same decency. And if someone is truly lacking any degree of intelligence, don't they deserve empathy rather than scorn. I know it's the internet and people like to "take of the mask", but some of you are hiding a pretty sinister face underneath. I wonder if people close to you know who you are inside?

I think people should have contempt for the conmen and compassion for the conned…Milo Yiannopoulos is not one of the conned, and while his views are far more in the troll corner of discourse that alt-righters like to comfortably reside his proliferation and justification of views espoused by actual powerful conmen does not allow him any benefit of the doubt
 
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So I think I’ll step away from the thread. Before I do that, I’ll like to say I have no hard feelings about any of the interactions I’ve had here. Sometimes it was a bit contentious, which is a little unfortunate. I hope people can accept my apologies for my part in that. Its probably the nature of communicating in the internet. But I wish everyone the best. Take care of yourselves.
I am of the same way. Debate shouldnt make people angry. And as far as i am concerned the science is settled as far as IVM as a prophylaxis is concerned -> ivmmeta.com.

Since all the data shows that it works as a prophylaxis, i probably need 3 new studies showing that it doesnt work as a prophylaxis(ie 40% or less effectiveness). Since viruses mutates fairly quickly it is possible that IVM wont work anymore after a certain point.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
the science is settled as far as IVM as a prophylaxis is concerned -> ivmmeta.com.
No it's not.

as far as i am concerned
Yellow flag - insular thinking

Since viruses mutates fairly quickly it is possible that IVM wont work anymore after a certain point

Take note of how you conveniently built into your argument an escape hatch automatic goal post moving mechanism should you be proven to be wrong.
 
I think people should have contempt for the conmen and compassion for the conned…Milo Yiannopoulos is not one of the conned, and while his views are far more in the troll corner of discourse that alt-righters like to comfortably reside his proliferation and justification of views espoused by actual powerful conmen does not allow him any benefit of the doubt
I'm not talking about conmen. There has been a great deal of pleasure expressed at the expense of many who are simply ignorant. And it's not my intent to judge, I hope that's clear. It's just that I know that we are capable of better...all of us.
 
I'm not talking about conmen. There has been a great deal of pleasure expressed at the expense of many who are simply ignorant. And it's not my intent to judge, I hope that's clear. It's just that I know that we are capable of better...all of us.

like I said Yiannopoulos does not get the benefit of the doubt from me, so why does he from you?
 

FunkMiller

Member
That's not the spirit of my post...at all. But I'm not surprised that that's how you see it.

Yes, it is. You’re determined to frame anyone critical or dismissive of anti-vaxxers as ’bad‘ people. Because you sympathise with anti-vaxxers, and don’t like them being hauled over the coals, and shown up to be the fools they are.
 
ah all right, well next time someone comes here to call people sheep for taking the vaccine or wearing a mask it’d be good to see your response, after all your moral policing should be applied consistently
That has been a less than common refrain in this thread. I haven't seen too much derision in the manner that you have mentioned. There's been a few such posts, although I haven't seen anyone celebrating the problems or demise (as a result of taking the vaccine) of another in such a case. (if it occurred, I missed it.) But sure I think we all ought to be kind towards each other. Period. It's not my intent to police anyone's morality. I'm simply expressing my own views - just like you and everyone else in this thread. I think the world is a better place when we treat each other with kindness, differences aside. Yes, that's a naive expectation, believe me I know, but I feel how I feel. People who take exception to suggesting mutual respect and kindness are not people I resonate with. I don't understand.
 

QSD

Member
This seems pretty similar to Youtube's heavy handed issues with fair use and copyright.
Yeah it's probably an automated banning, I'm just trying to help raise enough ruckus so that an actual human will review the case. I've found RW to be a very valuable channel throughout this whole covid ordeal so feel obliged to do something in support.

So I think I’ll step away from the thread. Before I do that, I’ll like to say I have no hard feelings about any of the interactions I’ve had here. Sometimes it was a bit contentious, which is a little unfortunate. I hope people can accept my apologies for my part in that. Its probably the nature of communicating in the internet. But I wish everyone the best. Take care of yourselves.
Much appreciate your contributions to the discussions here. Hope to see you again in some other thread.
 
No it's not.


Yellow flag - insular thinking



Take note of how you conveniently built into your argument an escape hatch automatic goal post moving mechanism should you be proven to be wrong.
Did you even look art the numbers? The lowest efficacy is 54%. The efficacy ranges from 54% to 100%. So far nothing has dropped below that.

As for the supposed "escape hatch", so you think that the vaccines aren't in the same boat? So you think this iteration of the vaccine will be universally effective forever? You have one the one hand said that not allowing the possibility that IVM might not work as dangerous and allowing the possibility as an escape hatch? Dont you find that to be a lose/lose argument?

It seems that you have predetermined that IVM cannot work event though the data overwhelmingly proves you wrong.


I am a maths man, and FYI, i will only accept real numbers that IVM doesnt work. None of this "haha horse paste dewormer" stuff. The horse paste thing is an issue in the USA however. The tablets should be available to everyone. There is no real way to effectively use the paste, i mean how do you gauge how much IVM of the paste you are really taking and if the rest of the stuff in the paste isn't harmful?
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Did you even look art the numbers? The lowest efficacy is 54%. The efficacy ranges from 54% to 100%. So far nothing has dropped below that.

As for the supposed "escape hatch", so you think that the vaccines aren't in the same boat? So you think this iteration of the vaccine will be universally effective forever? You have one the one hand said that not allowing the possibility that IVM might not work as dangerous and allowing the possibility as an escape hatch? Dont you find that to be a lose/lose argument?

It seems that you have predetermined that IVM cannot work event though the data overwhelmingly proves you wrong.


I am a maths man, and FYI, i will only accept real numbers that IVM doesnt work. None of this "haha horse paste dewormer" stuff. The horse paste thing is an issue in the USA however. The tablets should be available to everyone. There is no real way to effectively use the paste, i mean how do you gauge how much IVM of the paste you are really taking and if the rest of the stuff in the paste isn't harmful?
Predetermined that ivermectin cannot work?

Did you miss my post not that long ago where I said that my hopefulness that it does work is probably biasing my current assessment in ivermectin's favor?

The current research out now is not conclusive. You have to prove that ivermectin works. How are you only accepting real numbers that ivermectin doesn't work if you don't even have real numbers that says it does work in the first place?
 
Predetermined that ivermectin cannot work?

Did you miss my post not that long ago where I said that my hopefulness that it does work is probably biasing my current assessment in ivermectin's favor?

The current research out now is not conclusive. You have to prove that ivermectin works. How are you only accepting real numbers that ivermectin doesn't work if you don't even have real numbers that says it does work in the first place?
I do have real numbers that it works. Its all there at the link i posted. It has all the data there including the ones that say IVM doesnt work. But so far none of the ones that uses it as a prophylaxis shows that it doesnt work. As i said the lowest efficacy is 54%.

As far as your hopefulness, I am skeptical of what you are saying. I mean you havent even said how much data you need. There is over 10 patients worth of data for IVM as a treatment and 8k patients worth of data for IVM as a prophylaxis. For me that is enough.

How much data do you need for you to believe that it works?
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I do have real numbers that it works. Its all there at the link i posted. It has all the data there including the ones that say IVM doesnt work. But so far none of the ones that uses it as a prophylaxis shows that it doesnt work. As i said the lowest efficacy is 54%.

As far as your hopefulness, I am skeptical of what you are saying. I mean you havent even said how much data you need. There is over 10 patients worth of data for IVM as a treatment and 8k patients worth of data for IVM as a prophylaxis. For me that is enough.

How much data do you need for you to believe that it works?
There is literally only one randomized control trial on prophalyxis on that site and that was open label and with a couple of hundred people total. And it is a preprint.
That is not what I would consider close to enough evidence to risk taking it at all.
 
There is literally only one randomized control trial on prophalyxis on that site and that was open label and with a couple of hundred people total. And it is a preprint.
That is not what I would consider close to enough evidence to risk taking it at all.

Randomized control trials arent the only way to evaluate efficacy. 10 non random controlled trials are easily better than one random controlled trail as far as evaluating whether something works. The exact numbers on the efficacy is better with random controlled trials however.

The thing is that you wont be able to find many if at all in the near future because there is no money to be made with IVM. I got 500 tablets at 12mg each for $25. Its cheap because the patent already ran out so its free use. No one will stick their head out for something like that. The best we can expect to get is extrapolated data from government surveys.

I dont think it is a conspiracy, I just think that is how capitalism works.
 

Chaplain

Member


The scientists believe that the number of available sequences of C.1.2 may be an underrepresentation of the spread and frequency of the variant in South Africa and around the world. The study found consistent increases in the number of C.1.2 genomes in South Africa on a monthly basis, rising from 0.2% of genomes sequenced in May to 1.6% in June and then to 2% in July, similar to the increases seen with the Beta and Delta variants there. The study also found that the C.1.2 lineage has a mutation rate of about 41.8 mutations per year, which is nearly twice as fast as the current global mutation rate of the other variants. The scientists stated that this short period of increased evolution was also seen with the Alpha, Beta and Gamma variants, suggesting that a single event, followed by a spike in cases, drove faster mutation rates. More than half of the C.1.2 sequences have 14 mutations, but additional mutations have been noticed in some of the sequences, suggesting that evolution within the lineage is ongoing, according to the study. More than half (about 52%) of the mutations in the spike region of the C.1.2 sequences have previously been seen in other VOCs and VOIs. The mutations N440K and Y449H, which have been associated with escape from certain antibodies, have also been noticed in C.1.2 sequences. The scientists stressed that the combination of these mutations, as well as changes in other parts of the virus, likely help the virus evade antibodies and immune responses, including in patients who have already been infected with the Alpha or Beta variants.

edited
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Randomized control trials arent the only way to evaluate efficacy. 10 non random controlled trials are easily better than one random controlled trail as far as evaluating whether something works. The exact numbers on the efficacy is better with random controlled trials however.

The thing is that you wont be able to find many if at all in the near future because there is no money to be made with IVM. I got 500 tablets at 12mg each for $25. Its cheap because the patent already ran out so its free use. No one will stick their head out for something like that. The best we can expect to get is extrapolated data from government surveys.

I dont think it is a conspiracy, I just think that is how capitalism works.
Randomized control trials, double blind if at all possible, are really the only acceptable way to do this. Several poorly designed trials are worse than one poorly designed trial and are massively inferior to one well designed trial.
There is a massive financial incentive for governments spending hundreds of millions on vaccines to run trials that show ivermectin is very effective, so far though none have deemed it worthwhile to try.
 
Randomized control trials, double blind if at all possible, are really the only acceptable way to do this. Several poorly designed trials are worse than one poorly designed trial and are massively inferior to one well designed trial.
There is a massive financial incentive for governments spending hundreds of millions on vaccines to run trials that show ivermectin is very effective, so far though none have deemed it worthwhile to try.
Why would they anger the companies that give them billions of dollars in tax revenue?

In a capitalist country the businesses have the most power which is what most of the countries around the world are.

I could see maybe China possibly doing it but they are making their own vaccine to sell.

Most capitalist countries bend over backwards for pharmaceutical companies.

 

TheFarter

Banned
So I think I’ll step away from the thread. Before I do that, I’ll like to say I have no hard feelings about any of the interactions I’ve had here. Sometimes it was a bit contentious, which is a little unfortunate. I hope people can accept my apologies for my part in that. Its probably the nature of communicating in the internet. But I wish everyone the best. Take care of yourselves.
I enjoyed your post. It's hard to keep going when "you're always wrong about everything" and others are always right. Stay safe! Just remember all us people who have had the rona and survived! The numbers are staggering!
 

pel1300

Member
Can we bring Zefah back please. He was pursuing the truth and was intelligent, just coming at the issue from the opposite side.
Now we have COVID deniers and full on whacko complete virus deniers.

Shoulda been nicer to him (not you personally, but many of the posters who were replying to him.
 
I enjoyed your post. It's hard to keep going when "you're always wrong about everything" and others are always right. Stay safe! Just remember all us people who have had the rona and survived! The numbers are staggering!
I kinda wish i got this variant of the virus. It seems, the more deadly and virulent versions of the virus will come in the future that will break through most of the vaccines and other prophylaxes. Getting the rona and surviving will stop people from dying in the future.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I kinda wish i got this variant of the virus. It seems, the more deadly and virulent versions of the virus will come in the future that will break through most of the vaccines and other prophylaxes. Getting the rona and surviving will stop people from dying in the future.
Bad analysis.

Getting COVID and surviving will impart immunity, but millions will suffer and die in the process.

Getting the vaccine will also impart immunity, with hardly anyone suffering or dying.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member

Sounds believable.

When I was a kid, one of my aunts came to a family dinner with the flu (probably so she could get a free meal out of it since she was cheap as hell). Many of us got the flu, including me. Was sick for a few days.

Lots of people die from the flu every year too, there's annual vaccines people can get (for free too), yet for the flu nobody seems to give a shit about vaccines, masks, etc....

I wonder if people's exposure to the entire covid ordeal of process and protocols will make people also consider flu bug vaccines too. Or if they'll just say fuck it too since nobody mandates vaccines.
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
I kinda wish i got this variant of the virus. It seems, the more deadly and virulent versions of the virus will come in the future that will break through most of the vaccines and other prophylaxes. Getting the rona and surviving will stop people from dying in the future.
Keep your fingers crossed. That's an old school superstitious ward against menace, just as effective as the natural medicine you suggest at treating covid.

Fortunately, others who have responsibility for care of others don't depend on luck or let nature take its course without effort to keep or make others healthy. Already plans for such variants have been discussed.
New vaccines and restrictions would be deployed for such contingencies. This isn't prophesy. It's adaptive planning around data and risk assessment during an ongoing pandemic.

Risks in future waves might be different with new treatments. Maybe instead of just vaccines and restrictions, combo with heavy testing and quick treatments for lighter restrictions.
Might work well if the diagnosis and treatment comes quick. Relies a lot on the public to get themselves tested and treated quick.
 
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