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DaleinCalgary
Member
So how much does this Regeneron cost hospitals per patient and how available is it now?
Thaedolus
Member
I agree, I feel awful for the kids.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Good video. At 42 minutes in he talks about the "spike protein is toxic" idea that we discussed back in June. He debunks it just like I did back then.
Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]
it's worth mentioning, both Bret and Eric Weinstein are cranks. Bret has been pushing completely unfounded claims about vaccine safety. They trade on irrelevant credentials and spin conspiracy theories to audiences who have been fooled by surface level truthiness. And if you listen to e.g...
Zefah gave me a lot of pushback on that point and wasn't listening to my explanation very well.
Thesuffering79
Banned
Kilau
Member
Went to give my doggo her pills today and never really noticed the drug name until now.
Guess she won’t get covid.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Eric Weinstein makes a good point here:
"Contrarian first, think later" strategy is just another form of confirmation bias group think. So many people fall under that flawed epistemology and deceive themselves into thinking they're practicing academic "skepticism".
"Contrarian first, think later" strategy is just another form of confirmation bias group think. So many people fall under that flawed epistemology and deceive themselves into thinking they're practicing academic "skepticism".
QSD
Member
Yeah this is an older video from when David Fuller (of Rebel Wisdom) was still trying to figure out what was true. I think it's safe to say he's decided against Ivermectin since, partially because it has become some kind of talisman of the vaccine hesitant (even while its promotion was originally only intentioned to provide some kind of early treatment, *never* to replace vaccination). I don't think Tess Lawrie comes across as very convincing. When David asks her what it would take for her to believe Ivermectin doesn't work, she just responds with "Ivermectin works" which is something of a red flag to me, signaling someone who's gone all-in and can't even consider a counterfactual.
Like I said then, for me, this is so far outside my area of expertise that I'm left basically just wondering who to trust when I see these kind of arguments. I've lost trust in Bret and Heather now though.Good video. At 42 minutes in he talks about the "spike protein is toxic" idea that we discussed back in June. He debunks it just like I did back then.
Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]
it's worth mentioning, both Bret and Eric Weinstein are cranks. Bret has been pushing completely unfounded claims about vaccine safety. They trade on irrelevant credentials and spin conspiracy theories to audiences who have been fooled by surface level truthiness. And if you listen to e.g...www.neogaf.com
Zefah gave me a lot of pushback on that point and wasn't listening to my explanation very well.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I like Bret and Heather in general, and I've been following Bret's journey ever since the Evergreen debacle. I think he's a smart guy and a good thinker. But that doesn't mean he's always right about everything.
For lack of a better way to express this - I don't really trust anyone, even the people I like, and especially if they're talking about a subject outside of their expertise. Once looking at the arguments from all sides, I quickly noticed that Bret put a lot of stock in Steve, and that Steve was saying a lot of inaccurate and very easily checkable things, which in my book is a big red flag. Then I noticed that Bret was insulating himself from contrary opinions, which is another red flag.
In the end, he could be totally right about "ivermectin good vaccines bad", but I would still maintain that the pathway to get there was not epistemologically sound.
Lucky8BB
Banned
My uncle works at mount sinai hospital (this is one on the biggest hospitals in NYC) and he told me the vast majority of covid deaths in NYC are in fully vaccinated group, so I no longer believe in such claims like close to zero chance of dying thanks to vaccines.
According to the recent UK gov data 3/4 covid delta variant deaths are in vaccinated group (table on page 18).
402 deaths out of 47 008 cases in vaccinated, and 253 deaths out of 151 054 cases in unvaccinated group. What's even more worrying more and more people started dying not because of covid, but because of covid vaccines.
BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds
Shaw died of a brain haemorrhage caused by a blood clot three weeks after her first AstraZeneca dose
www.theguardian.com
Coroner has confirmed covid vaccine was to blame, and I wonder how many people in totall have died already as direct result of taking this covid vaccines.
In Europe we have already 21,765 death reports after taking covid vaccines, but we have to remember these reports dont include information from investigations into reported cases, so it's still unknown how many people have indeed died as a direct result of taking these vaccines.
In USA VAERS data is even more worrying, because CDC is clearly manipulating their data. They had 11,405 death reports and one whistleblower from inside the government has come forward alledging (in sworn testimony) that the real numbers are much higher than that (45,000 instead of 11,405). But now CDC is saying they experts did some mistake, so they "only" have 6000 reports. Current data from USA look very strange next to Europe data (21,766 death reports), or even Brazil data (over 32,000 death reports).
Electronic Support for Public Health - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (ESP:VAERS) | Digital Healthcare Research
The project sought to create a generalizable system to facilitate detection and clinician reporting of vaccine adverse events and found that it is possible to automatically detect adverse events in defined ways, and to electronically report them.
According to this study VAERS is only reporting less than 1% of adverse events from vaccines, so if we want to believe current CDC data (6000 reports), then it means 600,000 deaths. Such unprecedented numbers are worrying to me, because I dont remember any other vaccine in history with such huge number of reported deaths. All vaccines combined over few decades have killed less people than covid vaccines in just one year and no one will tell me that's normal (there was one famous doctor in my country, who thought this is normal, but he is dead now after his 2'nd dose). And media want me to believe these vaccines are safe? All medics in my family get the jab, but not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to take it and now they are warning me to never make the same mistake LOL. This whole situation is like a comedy! And politicans wonder why so many people still dont want to get the job. There's no way I'm going to risk my health and get the covid jab just because media and politicans want me to do so. I have already beat covid in one day thanks to excellent treatment from my uncle, and there's not even one study that suggest artificial immunity is better than natural immunity.
I also want to talk briefly about factcheckers, because something tells me they are hiding the truth. I'm sure many people still remember nurse Tiffany Dover who fainted on live on camera. Factcheckers were saying she is well but to this day no one heard from her. Lately some people called to Tiffany emplyer and they even refuse to answer if she is even still alive FEW MONTHS AFTER HER STRANGE DISSAPERING. In my book Tiffany Dover is dead until I will see her well and alive, because I no longer believe factcheckers.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Nope. Very wrong.
NYC: Data Suggests COVID Vax Highly Effective Against Contagious Delta Variant
New evidence suggests the vaccines are holding up better against the highly contagious Delta variant than anyone realized, according to New York City data released Wednesday. Mayor de Blasio revealed new health department figures which show that between Jan. 17 and Aug. 7 only 0.33% — or...
www.nbcnewyork.com
Also, hey let's see what the hospital itself has to say about this.
- New York, NY
- (August 12, 2021)
FunkMiller
Member
Silver lining is that the poor kid won’t grow up under his influence.
He will grow up with a mother with a huge hospital bill though.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
In America, freedom oftentimes smells like debt, unfortunately.
Just one of the reasons why I love the NHS.
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QSD
Member
I generally agree with everything you said here. The jury on Ivermectin seems to be leaning toward it not working, and I feel it's important to stress this because it's become very clear to me that many people (thanks to Bret & Heather) want to believe it's an alternative to vaccination, and it doesn't seem to be. Reports of people dying due to going all-in on Ivermectin are becoming commonplace, and Dark Horse is obviously a very important source for many of them.
The podcast with Steve I never really watched at the time, as I was already vaccinated in April/May and it didn't seem relevant to me personally. What I saw later of it though really made me worry, as the guy is just making these wild allegations, the most egregious of which was about babies brains being split open due to vaccines with very little pushback from Bret. This is basically what I was talking about before, these are the nasty tactics of the OG anti-vaxxers. Bret should really have known better than to give this Steve guy a free platform.
The problem of epistemology is a tough one, as even for you I would say the buck stops somewhere. Do you check whether studies you read/cite are methodologically sound? Do you check whether the trials that are being reported on actually happened? Can you? To me, anyone who claims that trust isn't a huge part of the problem here, and it's all just in the data is to some extent simply kicking the can down the road.
Thaedolus
Member
My uncle that works at Nintendo said Shigeru Miyamoto developed the virus in the mushroom kingdom and intended for it to stay there but some asshole Italian plumber got infected with it then vacationed in Wuhan so that’s how it got out, real tragic stuff anyway I don’t trust old Shiggy anymore
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
At this point, I am mostly neutral on ivermectin, with a slight optimism that maybe it'll have some positive effect, but that might just be wishful thinking on my part. The retracted study didn't do it any favors. I'll wait to see the conclusions of the larger studies that are currently underway. What I do know, however, is that the handling of the discussion over it, and the overhyping of its capabilities has led to a lot of harm with people trying to self medicate.
I try to skim over the method and see if any red flags pop out. I can't really know for sure if the study actually happened, but I can keep a lookout for retractions. There are investigators who are better equipped at verifying these things, as we can see with the debate over if some of the previously cited ivermectin studies actually happened, but for the most part I trust that the published studies are reliable enough, and that the pre-prints at least pass the sniff test. If other experts who are better equipped than me at interpreting the data find it credible, then that is a big green flag for me too. We aren't all going to be an expert at every single subject in the world, so trust is definitely part of the glue that holds this institutional knowledgebase together. We need to make sure to keep our own knowledge up to snuff and hone our bullshit detectors so that we, as individuals, and in as much capacity as we can muster, do our best to fact check our own beliefs and test the credibility of those we look to for guidance.
Looking back at the posts I did about this subject in June, this was my underlying motivation for directing the conversation as I did - out of respect for everyone's personal decision-making and to hopefully spur them to check their own assumptions. You and Zefah and others had a problem with my tone, however, so that didn't work out as planned. If you read my posts again, I hope that your internal voice that represents my words is heard in a friendlier manner, as I honestly was intending.
CAB_Life
Member
I thought I was done with this thread, then this came out:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
As suspected, being overweight (as well as the other conditions studied) is detrimental on all levels, even inhibiting the effectiveness of vaccines.
If we really want to minimize this disease to the level of a seasonal flu, an aggressive health strategy is needed in conjunction with any immunization protocol. One has to wonder if eradication is the goal given how available this knowledge was and continues to be and how little our governments act on "the science".
Edit: If you read through the study the disproportionate effects occur more in relation to adipose tissue around the waist. So it's not just about being fat, you can have the skinny-fats too (a spare tire) and have similar risks.
Central obesity, smoking habit, and hypertension are associated with lower antibody titres in response to COVID‐19 mRNA vaccine
To explore variables associated with the serological response following COVID‐19 mRNA vaccine.Eighty‐six healthcare workers adhering to the vaccination campaign against COVID‐19 were enrolled in January–February 2021. All ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
As suspected, being overweight (as well as the other conditions studied) is detrimental on all levels, even inhibiting the effectiveness of vaccines.
If we really want to minimize this disease to the level of a seasonal flu, an aggressive health strategy is needed in conjunction with any immunization protocol. One has to wonder if eradication is the goal given how available this knowledge was and continues to be and how little our governments act on "the science".
Edit: If you read through the study the disproportionate effects occur more in relation to adipose tissue around the waist. So it's not just about being fat, you can have the skinny-fats too (a spare tire) and have similar risks.
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402/655 = 61.3% deaths in the vaccinated set across all ages
13/61 = 21.3% deaths in the vaccinated set for people under 50
389/604 = 64.4% deaths in the vaccinated set for people over 50
95% of England* over 50 vaccinated so that is 64.4% deaths vs 95% vaccinated
64% of England* under 50 vaccinated so that is 21.3% deaths vs 64% vaccinated
* can't find a link to the NHS total, only found NHS England numbers but that's cause i am bad at googling.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
zaanan
Banned
The article uses CDC data. Btw, if you think the CDC is free of political manipulation, I have a bridge to sell you. It just takes a little independent thinking and digging to get the full story. Whatever are they teaching in schools these days?I gave you the source right here dude. Quit moving the goalposts.
There were 3,440 unvaccinated people over 50 in that sample, compared with 21,472 vaccinated! Given that the over 50 group is at much higher risk, it hardly seems surprising that there were many more deaths. Let's look at the Case Fatality Rate for over 50's:
Unvaccinated: 205/3440 = 5.96%
Vacinated: 389/21472 = 1.8%
So the vaccinated group of over 50's had 1/3 the chance of dying of the unvaccinated one, given a confirmed diagnosis. And that doesn't include those who either didn't catch COVID because of the vaccine or caught a mild illness and so didn't get tested.
Now it's true that the CFR is slightly higher for the under 50 vaccinated group, however given the difference hinges on a handful of deaths (only 13 died in the vaccinated group), it is likely not statistically significant.
Early evidence indicates the blood clot risk is much greater among those who have contracted COVID, than those who have been vaccinated.What's even more worrying more and more people started dying not because of covid, but because of covid vaccines.
BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds
Shaw died of a brain haemorrhage caused by a blood clot three weeks after her first AstraZeneca dose
Covid-19 is far more likely to cause blood clots than the AstraZeneca vaccine
A new study shows that someone with coronavirus is 12.9 times more likely to get vein blood clots and 12.43 times more likely to get brain blood clots.
www.newstatesman.com
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funkygunther
Banned
My uncle works at mount sinai hospital (this is one on the biggest hospitals in NYC) and he told me the vast majority of covid deaths in NYC are in fully vaccinated group, so I no longer believe in such claims like close to zero chance of dying thanks to vaccines.
According to the recent UK gov data 3/4 covid delta variant deaths are in vaccinated group (table on page 18).
402 deaths out of 47 008 cases in vaccinated, and 253 deaths out of 151 054 cases in unvaccinated group. What's even more worrying more and more people started dying not because of covid, but because of covid vaccines.
BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds
Shaw died of a brain haemorrhage caused by a blood clot three weeks after her first AstraZeneca dose
Coroner has confirmed covid vaccine was to blame, and I wonder how many people in totall have died already as direct result of taking this covid vaccines.
In Europe we have already 21,765 death reports after taking covid vaccines, but we have to remember these reports dont include information from investigations into reported cases, so it's still unknown how many people have indeed died as a direct result of taking these vaccines.
In USA VAERS data is even more worrying, because CDC is clearly manipulating their data. They had 11,405 death reports and one whistleblower from inside the government has come forward alledging (in sworn testimony) that the real numbers are much higher than that (45,000 instead of 11,405). But now CDC is saying they experts did some mistake, so they "only" have 6000 reports. Current data from USA look very strange next to Europe data (21,766 death reports), or even Brazil data (over 32,000 death reports).
Electronic Support for Public Health - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (ESP:VAERS) | Digital Healthcare Research
The project sought to create a generalizable system to facilitate detection and clinician reporting of vaccine adverse events and found that it is possible to automatically detect adverse events in defined ways, and to electronically report them.digital.ahrq.gov
According to this study VAERS is only reporting less than 1% of adverse events from vaccines, so if we want to believe current CDC data (6000 reports), then it means 600,000 deaths. Such unprecedented numbers are worrying to me, because I dont remember any other vaccine in history with such huge number of reported deaths. All vaccines combined over few decades have killed less people than covid vaccines in just one year and no one will tell me that's normal (there was one famous doctor in my country, who thought this is normal, but he is dead now after his 2'nd dose). And media want me to believe these vaccines are safe? All medics in my family get the jab, but not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to take it and now they are warning me to never make the same mistake LOL. This whole situation is like a comedy! And politicans wonder why so many people still dont want to get the job. There's no way I'm going to risk my health and get the covid jab just because media and politicans want me to do so. I have already beat covid in one day thanks to excellent treatment from my uncle, and there's not even one study that suggest artificial immunity is better than natural immunity.
I also want to talk briefly about factcheckers, because something tells me they are hiding the truth. I'm sure many people still remember nurse Tiffany Dover who fainted on live on camera. Factcheckers were saying she is well but to this day no one heard from her. Lately some people called to Tiffany emplyer and they even refuse to answer if she is even still alive FEW MONTHS AFTER HER STRANGE DISSAPERING. In my book Tiffany Dover is dead until I will see her well and alive, because I no longer believe factcheckers.
from where the ever-loving fuck do you lot keep crawling out of?
Thaedolus
Member
This reads like an AI generated Facebook post
Your labels are swapped.
Ah, fixed. Thanks.
S
SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
What happened with "hey, get out of my store"?
Lucky8BB
Banned
Fully vaccinated means 2 doses. People with one dose also qualify as not fully vaccinated. People who present such data knows very well what they are doing and they only going to tell you what they want you to belive. Sometimes they are even cought fabricating data. Here's good example.Nope. Very wrong.
NYC: Data Suggests COVID Vax Highly Effective Against Contagious Delta Variant
New evidence suggests the vaccines are holding up better against the highly contagious Delta variant than anyone realized, according to New York City data released Wednesday. Mayor de Blasio revealed new health department figures which show that between Jan. 17 and Aug. 7 only 0.33% — or...
Also, hey let's see what the hospital itself has to say about this.
- New York, NY
- (August 12, 2021)
The Lancet changes editorial policy after hydroxychloroquine Covid study retraction
New policy comes after serious quality control questions were raised about the data relied on by a study in the medical journal
www.theguardian.com
So I'm considering every possible scenario when I look at data. Also what CDC did lately with their VAERS data is totally unacceptable and it shows how easily government sources can manipulate it's data.
Of course you can believe the official narrative, but I believe my family who work in mount sinai hospital and knows how the reality look like from the inside. I can see similar reports across the world, and not just in UK, so I dont need to trust just my uncle. Dont blame me for being sceptical, but media totally destroyed my trust when it comes to official narrative.
Goverment sources can fake studies and it's data, but it's harder to hide people deaths. For many months media in my country didnt wanted to report about "mysterious" deaths soon after covid jabs, because it was easy to ignore tragedies of some unknown people. For example 21 year old woman (perfectly fit and without any underlying conditions) from my city died just two days after vaccination and her family is 100% sure vaccine was to blame, because this young woman felt sick just few minutes after vaccination. Not even a single goverment controlled media reported about this death because they want people to believe these vaccines are safe. These days however even athletes started dying, so media in my country are forced to report about such tragic events... BUT they always "forget" to mention this people have received covid vaccine lately. Fortunately families of these deceased athletes often try to talk about it, so the evidence is there if someone want to look for it.
One athlete even wrote on his FB before dying covid vaccine is responsible for his ilness and because he sensed things will not end well for him he even asked people to put specific flowers on his grave (IDK whats the name of these flowers in english).
What's even more tragic this athlete was known by his PRO VACCINE statements. He wanted covid vaccinations to be compulsory. He even made a very bad joke from people like me (who have their doubts about these SPECIFIC vaccines) the same day of his first dose. He was writing jokes on his FB profile like "chip from Gates started working" and it looks like he was indeed right after all LOL. This is tragedy at it's finest.
And who will take responsibility for such tragic deaths? In my country country they are asking people to take the risk and get the covid jab, but later on no one want to take responsibility for evenual adverse reactions. Australia prime minister has said it's people fault if they have adverse reaction after covid jab, because they arnt forcing people to take it and it's our job to get informed consent.
That's exactly what I did and I will never risk my health just because some politicants want me to do it, and especially when they are forcing me to do it.
I dont want to end like this
End especialy not like this (not in the near future at least).
CAB_Life
Member
Bit of a tangent here...Debt is a consequence of financial irresponsibility in a free society. Most of the reason why there’s almost no lateral movement between the classes is because we do not teach people how to manage their money, how to work within a system, quite literally, predicated on financial savvy and gain. We live in a capitalist society and yet only the privileged few know or are educated in the mechanics of said society. Something upwards of 60% of all adults can’t even construct a budget and we no longer teach basic accounting—which is an essential skill—in schools. Instead, we’re too busy indoctrinating people in how to be reductionist, state-weaned, social media and identity fixated children.
FunkMiller
Member
I dont want to end like this
End especialy not like this (not in the near future at least).
Jesus Christ, you’re almost a cliche, mate.
Get off social media. Seriously.
That Australian minister has Bell’s palsy. Fuck all to do with AstraZeneca vaccine.
Seriously. GET OFF SOCIAL MEDIA. It’s destroying your mind.
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QSD
Member
Hmmm, this made me read back some more (on page 7 of this thread LOL, those were the days) and apparantly I did see some of the podcast with Steve (man my memory is just fucked) but I was already turned off by him in my original response. Anyway it didn't seem to me that our interactions were overly hostile, so no worries. In retrospect many the things you were pointing to in your mega post were certainly correct, I'm happy to give you credit for it.
Kilau
Member
This thread has become a game of whac-a-troll
ManaByte
Gold Member
If Facebook posts it, it must be true.
Lucky8BB
Banned
My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:
funkygunther
Banned
My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:
good, I’m glad my post got your attention more than posts actually trying to address your shite…that’s typical, now fuck off back into the crawl space and stroke that big freethinking brain of yours
FunkMiller
Member
My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:
Bet you’d wear one if your uncle told you to.
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Kilau
Member
My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:
RAÏSanÏa
Member
My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:
Maybe your government. Here that's unlikely due to people being able to think for themselves(except for satire sometimes that shit gets reposted as fact). new vaccines in the future will keep people safe as they have always done in the past and do now in developed nations. Data supported restrictions that work to keep cases low enough that hospitals manage during waves and economies remain open.
Manage like some nations manage measles , has been a strategy described and suggested.
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Funny considering modern social media is probably the most effective propaganda tool ever created. You get to call others sheep while algorithms feed you a steady diet of information that reinforces whatever narrative is currently best for keeping users engaged and clicking on ads. It's like the Matrix but instead of a nutrient drip you get a news feed.
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Thaedolus
Member
Meanwhile, in reality:My dear sheep, dont ask any questions and just take your 3'rd (and soon 10'th dose) like your government say. I'm sure your health will get better with each dose, but I'm afraid your government will still want you to wear funny things like these:
ManaByte
Gold Member
Don't you know? The government is LYING! No one is dying! All of the "deaths" are fake and the people are being locked up in underground Illuminati Globalist bunkers! That's why funerals weren't allowed! /s
Thaedolus
Member
Kilau
Member
Where was security? I couldn’t understand what else he was saying but he dropped the n-word a few times.
Jaysen
Banned
Not shocked at all when an anti-masker also turns out to be a racist. It was weird that an airport that’s usually crawling with security had none here.
funkygunther
Banned
NHS blood test tube shortage: Doctors 'facing difficult choices'
Doctors call for more guidance after the NHS in England and Wales stops all non-urgent blood tests.
www.bbc.com
There's always some unforeseen impact
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
the old man barely pushed him and he fell down lol.