Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
If you're going to exclude all deaths amongst those with comorbidities, you're going to have to do the same with flu deaths. And COVID is still far more deadly.
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Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
These people are idiots.
SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers - Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone - Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft
So let’s get this straight – based on the recommendation of doctors Fauci and Birx the US shut down the entire economy based on 9,000 American deaths due entirely to the China coronavirus?www.thegatewaypundit.com
"Respiratory arrest", "respiratory failure", and "cardiac arrest" are not comorbidities.
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's an ultra right-wing news site.
But was he vaccinated?
Thaedolus
Member
And again I wonder what the population of people making it to, say, 40 without any comorbidities is. Like I eat well and exercise regularly and take my vitamins, but I’m still overweight. Do I deserve to just fuck off and die because I have a comorbidity that the vast majority of Americans have?
Speaking of which, time to start dieting…
It’s so easy for people to say that on the internet .. you are so right ..
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
The harping on about comorbidities from the anti-science crowd is actually pretty humorous. It shows how very little they actually understand what they're discussing (they think it's rare to have one - not even realizing that even mental health issues are considered comorbidities). When provided the basic facts that easily dismantle their poor, fallacious arguments, and asked something simple like "What do you think a comorbidity is?", they proffer a Gateway Pundit article who's source is a Qanon conspiracy theorist, who in turn confuses cause of death with comorbidities.
You couldn't make this shit up.
Which leads me to: I have a very strong feeling several of the users that have breezed through the thread in recent days are either all alt accounts of the same person, or they're all different people sitting in a Discord server someplace giggling and trying to see how far they can push the trolling.
You couldn't make this shit up.
Which leads me to: I have a very strong feeling several of the users that have breezed through the thread in recent days are either all alt accounts of the same person, or they're all different people sitting in a Discord server someplace giggling and trying to see how far they can push the trolling.
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Vicetrailia
Member
Texas sees 550% spike in poison calls for horse and cow dewormer, despite FDA warning
There’s no clear evidence from any major study ivermectin helps treat COVID-19 and the FDA has warned against taking it.
www.wfaa.com
sweet bro.
Chaplain
Member
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Thaedolus
Member
The real death panels were the friends we made along the way…?
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
bro if you can't figure out that website is 100% propaganda I would just go with expert recommendations. best of luckSHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers - Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone - Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft
So let’s get this straight – based on the recommendation of doctors Fauci and Birx the US shut down the entire economy based on 9,000 American deaths due entirely to the China coronavirus?
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Here's the original:
Cook County judge strips mother of parental rights because she is not vaccinated
A mother says a Cook County judge has taken away her parental rights after learning that she is not vaccinated against COVID-19.
I wish we had a lawyer around to ask just what kinds of powers judges have in these parental cases in Illinois. It seems like he's overstepping boundaries (and being needlessly cruel), but some states grant judges some pretty amazing authority at times.
Dr_Salt
Banned
Maybe if some of you weren't complete psychopaths and started saying he was in denial because his parents died of covid he wouldn't have left in the first place.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Guess I missed all that. Got a link?
QSD
Member
Interesting link, not super surprising but still
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Not really. Just common sense. Everyone's been told the hospitals will fill up for almost 2 years now. When its full, its full.
Dev1lXYZ
Member
Portable MORGUES sent to Florida state sees spiraling Covid cases
The Central Florida Disaster Medical Coalition said each hospital system will be sent different amounts of portable morgues depending on the size of the facility.
Portable Morgues at 15 hospitals in Central Florida. Looks like Ronny’s dream of running for the White House are pretty much going to have rallies that don’t include Central and South Florida. He probably needs to fire whoever gave him the bad advice of not budging on public safety.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Those assessments at 48 and 120 hrs for re-allocation appear new. Maybe based on new recovery studies with preventatives and treatments.
tick tock mf
Strongly voiced implication of the expectation of patient to be getting better quick if scarcity.
It's like living an episode of Star Trek Voyager.
Dr_Salt
Banned
Its like 10 pages back. Poster already chilled out so lets just let it die there.
You have your timeline wrong.
FunkMiller
Member
Both of which are so massively pathetic, they would have to have very sad little lives.
Dr_Salt
Banned
The attacks didn't start there even if he left before that one which was the worst of them. Not gonna start some drama over that so I'm done.
FunkMiller
Member
If there was more than 20% of any western nation with no comorbidities I’d be shocked.
FunkMiller
Member
Prove what you’re saying with a direct link to a post dude. Don't just claim something.
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funkygunther
Banned
Yes he left before that. He ran away pretty much as soon as Evilore and he had some brief exchange about vaccines.
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FunkMiller
Member
This is actually what happened. He turned tail and ran because the FDA approved Pfizer and Evilore confronted him on some of his opinions. I don’t ever think he even discussed his parents.
Thaedolus
Member
I did post something that he found offensive and I’m not proud of it, but I apologized and certainly wasn’t trying to make him feel attacked or link anything to his parents. I do think some have crossed the line in basically celebrating the misery of those we disagree with in here, though I think it’s been fairly rare. And it’s also the understandable result of the frustration felt by people trying to make the situation better with those they see as making the situation worse. That said, we’ve all believed stupid shit in our lives for some reason or another. Nobody deserves death because their source of information is wrong.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
"Attacks"? I'm not so sure about that. Tensions were raised multiple times, but relatively speaking, most discussions were civil enough.
Looking back at the last few pages when he requested deletion, he didn't give a specific reason for leaving, but he was still talking about how masks don't work (they do) and how the approval process was suspect (it's probably not). As far as I can tell, no one "attacked" him personally. Only his ideas. That's an important difference.
It looks like his ideas were getting less and less supported by evidence as time went on, so he bailed.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I gave you the source right here dude. Quit moving the goalposts.SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers - Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone - Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft
So let’s get this straight – based on the recommendation of doctors Fauci and Birx the US shut down the entire economy based on 9,000 American deaths due entirely to the China coronavirus?
Hoho for breakfast
Member
The devil in me wants everyone to pretend to be completely anti-vax even if they aren't/already have their shots just to see how it would all play out 
You'll just never convince some people with silly facts so as they say if you can't beat them "join them"...
You'll just never convince some people with silly facts so as they say if you can't beat them "join them"...
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
that was just me, and I said that after he nuked his account. nice reaching though
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
I said that both his parents must have died of covid for him to deny the mounting evidence he was facing despite clearly being an otherwise reasonable and intelligent person. implying that he reached the point where he was going through great lengths to find any kind of data that would alleviate his guilt that he contributed to his parents deaths (cog dissonance). clearly it was in poor taste, but he had just said something that rubbed me the wrong way about me admitting to abusing my patients, and frankly it was upsetting that he nuked his account for no reason when he was liked by all. we are all learning here.
QSD
Member
Man, I've also been away from this thread and it's a shame Zefah left. His posts were always well reasoned and steered clear of shit talking for the most part. I read the disagreement was about the term "anti vaxxer"...?
The way I see it: 'Anti-vaxxer' refers to a group of people, spearheaded by the extremely reprehensible Andrew Wakefield who oppose vaccination in general. It basically started out as a con for money but remains alive because it preys on the feelings of parents of children with autism. The group already existed well before Covid, and employs extraordinarily insidious tactics to get their 'message' out.
I'd say that to equate that group with the current vaccine hesitant is at the outset very uncharitable. The problem though is the aforementioned insidious tactics of the anti-vaxxers, who are constantly scheming to hijack the current 'hesitancy movement', which is IMHO roughly what happened with the Dark Horse podcast (I don't want to excuse BW though, he should have been more critical).
I thought this interview on Rebel Wisdom might be interesting. In it a former member of the FLCCC (a group promoting the use of the now infamous 'horse dewormer' Ivermectin) speaks out about what's going on behind the scenes and I think it paints a decent picture of how anti-vaxxers 'hijack' what was originally a group intended to quickly exchange information about potential treatments for covid in the face of a looming pandemic.
I feel kind of bad about posting some of the Dark Horse stuff here myself. I guess I put to much faith in Bret & Heather's ability to think critically.
The way I see it: 'Anti-vaxxer' refers to a group of people, spearheaded by the extremely reprehensible Andrew Wakefield who oppose vaccination in general. It basically started out as a con for money but remains alive because it preys on the feelings of parents of children with autism. The group already existed well before Covid, and employs extraordinarily insidious tactics to get their 'message' out.
I'd say that to equate that group with the current vaccine hesitant is at the outset very uncharitable. The problem though is the aforementioned insidious tactics of the anti-vaxxers, who are constantly scheming to hijack the current 'hesitancy movement', which is IMHO roughly what happened with the Dark Horse podcast (I don't want to excuse BW though, he should have been more critical).
I thought this interview on Rebel Wisdom might be interesting. In it a former member of the FLCCC (a group promoting the use of the now infamous 'horse dewormer' Ivermectin) speaks out about what's going on behind the scenes and I think it paints a decent picture of how anti-vaxxers 'hijack' what was originally a group intended to quickly exchange information about potential treatments for covid in the face of a looming pandemic.
I feel kind of bad about posting some of the Dark Horse stuff here myself. I guess I put to much faith in Bret & Heather's ability to think critically.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I asked this earlier, but no one addressed it.
If vaccinated people catch C19, have severely reduced symptoms, and go about their lives while contagious...
Doesn't that spread the virus quicker than unvaccinated people who catch C19 and stay in bed for a week or two because they feel like shit?
Is there faulty logic here or is it a taboo subject?
If vaccinated people catch C19, have severely reduced symptoms, and go about their lives while contagious...
Doesn't that spread the virus quicker than unvaccinated people who catch C19 and stay in bed for a week or two because they feel like shit?
Is there faulty logic here or is it a taboo subject?
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The quote system seems to be messing up on my phone.
I asked this earlier, but no one addressed it.
You have less chances of getting infected if vaccinated. Not sure about how the calculus works out exactly, it would depend on how big your social circle is. But this seems like all the more reason for everyone to get vaccinated.
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He died
‘He loved his family’: Caleb Wallace dies after battle with COVID-19, pregnant wife says
Caleb Wallace of San Angelo died Saturday after battling COVID for weeks. His wife, Jessica, is due soon with their fourth child and has started a GoFundMe for the family.
www.gosanangelo.com
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
My speculation:
Remember, anyone can carry it around asymptomatically, including the unvaccinated - this was a major point being communicated by the CDC, WHO, etc back when this all started, and one of the reasons why it spread so quickly. It's one of the factors behind asking everyone to wear masks.
There's also no guarantee an unvaccinated individual will develop serious enough symptoms right away to stay home (think about how many people during this pandemic thought that they merely had a cold for days before finally being tested and discovering that they had COVID), just as there's no guarantee a vaccinated person won't experience a breakthrough infection with symptoms strong enough to make them stay home right away, either.
I think that this question is so broad that we probably won't know until years pass and the pros have studied everything with the benefit of hindsight and all of the data. We've of course had past pandemics we can compare it to, but we didn't track the same amounts of data back then as we can and do now, sanitation was worse, there's differences in levels infectiousness, and so on.
Lucky8BB
Banned
I had covid and I can tell you for a fact this is not just the flu. Fortunately my uncle work in the biggest hospital in New York and thanks to his knowledge (he knows personally dr Zelenko, the same doctor who cured Donald Trump from covid in just one day) I was able to cure covid in no time (after just one hour all symptoms went away, and it felt like magic). My parents are old but they also recorvered the same day. In comparison my neighbours who have listened to their doctors done nothing (because they were told there's nothig they can do), and they were sick for a very long time (and to this day they mention some complications).
I'm no longer afraid of covid, because I know for a fact current covid treatments are very effective, but for some unknown reason the vast majority of doctors (at least in my country) dont want to help people, because they think no early treatments are available besides vaccines.
I'm no longer afraid of covid, because I know for a fact current covid treatments are very effective, but for some unknown reason the vast majority of doctors (at least in my country) dont want to help people, because they think no early treatments are available besides vaccines.
Has there been any study/analysis of what percentage of the population has preexisting immunity to COVID due to cross-reactivity with other coronavriuses? It definitely exists, and has been written about, but I haven't seen anything quantifiable. Also, due to this and other factors, I'm not sure why many in this thread act like contracting COVID at some point in the near future is a foregone conclusion. Like, many in here have said things like "your choice is between getting vaccinated or getting COVID" - well, no, not necessarily. Many, many people never get the flu (yes, I'm aware of the differences in transmissibility, but still).
Also, I know Delta is more transmissible, but I still don't think that means that EVERYONE (or even 90+% of people) will eventually contract it. Has there been any study on Delta's transmissibility aside from the Provincetown, Mass analysis? I feel like the CDC and others took that one situation and treated it as the end-all, be-all for Delta's R0.
Also, I know Delta is more transmissible, but I still don't think that means that EVERYONE (or even 90+% of people) will eventually contract it. Has there been any study on Delta's transmissibility aside from the Provincetown, Mass analysis? I feel like the CDC and others took that one situation and treated it as the end-all, be-all for Delta's R0.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
All of our treatments need to be administered very soon after symptoms develop. The Regeneron antibodies are pretty effective when given early. But people are sitting at home until they feel like they are about to die. By the time they go to the hospital, they have developed full blown pneumonia and their lungs are fucked.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It's obviously very common for a person in the US to have a comorbidity, as they are so wide ranging, and chronic disease id common here. These anti-science people just don't know what the term even means - at some point in time some YouTube / Facebook grifter noticed that very few people who perished had a comorbidity so they locked onto that statistic without taking the time to inform themselves what they are, and never took the time to wonder why that figure was so low (I.E. they didn't connect the obvious dots and realize that very few people do not have a comorbidity).
60% of all Americans have a chronic disease (more info here). All considered comorbidities. Furthermore, given the circumstances, everything from depression to substance abuse to a broken bone can be considered a comorb.
S
SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
This may sound harsh, but if you so stupid to take fucking horse dewormer instead of the vaccine you kinda deserve it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's possible, but it's all psychological theorycrafting speculation. Both vaccinated people and unvaccinated people can be asymptomatic with COVID, and while vaccinated people are probably more likely to have an asymptomatic experience, and assuming your premise is the only thing going on that influences behavior, we don't know if the prevalence of asymptomatic infection in the unvaccinated group is that much smaller to even make a difference practically.
We could also just as easily say that unvaccinated people are more likely to be less cautious and do things like social distance, or wear masks, so that in the time period they are infectious, they could have infected lots more people because they are more likely to have been engaged in large congregations without masks. The behavioral patterns are too complex to accurately extrapolate, and there's too many variables.
What you can do is look at the data, and see if there's a relationship between a high vaccination rate and case rate or severe illness/death rate.
Look at this comparison between a few different countries. (It's inelegant due to a lot of other variables like strictness of restrictions, mask wearing compliance, population density, etc, but it's still somewhat useful)
On the left, the countries are listed in order of fully vaccinated people per capita. The chart shows how many cases there are. Generally speaking, the countries with higher rates of vaccination have lower rates of cases per capita. Of course there are exceptions like Israel, but that's because Israel was one of the earliest countries in the world to get started with mass vaccinations, and as their recent data shows, the protection wanes over time, which is why they are giving out booster shots now.
However, what does not wane is protection from hospitalization, severe illness, and death.
Hospitalization:
The United States has the least percentage of people vaccinated, and they have the highest rate of hospitalizations. Despite Israel and the UK's high case rate, they have a much lower rate of hospitalization compared to the USA.
Deaths:
Same with deaths. Israel's death rate is still a little high, but again, they're experiencing waning immunity from being the first adopters of the vaccine. Other countries with high vaccination rates have relatively low death rates.
Also look here at data from just the United States.
Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) - Symptoms and causes
www.mayoclinic.org
You can hover over each state to see their case rate, and generally speaking, lower vaccination rates tend to be associated with higher case rates.
Look here too:
COVID Data Tracker
CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.
covid.cdc.gov
I added in the chart the 3 highest vaccinated states (Vermont, Massachusetts, and Connecticut) and the 3 lowest vaccinated states (Wyoming, Mississippi, and Alabama)
Look at how high the case rates are for the 3 highest vax states vs the 3 lowest vax states.
Now look at the deaths. See how much higher the rates of death in the unvaccinated states are vs the vaccinated states.
In conclusion, while I acknowledge that the scenario you posit is plausible, there is nothing to suggest that it actually makes a difference in reality, and this is furthermore reinforced by the data that shows that places with higher vaccination rates have lower cases and lower hospitalizations/deaths in general.
Any questions?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
If this is accurate then I feel sorry for his wife and kids. The selfishness and willful ignorance involved is just too much though. The guy cost his kids a life with their father just because he was too stubborn or too stupid to get a vaccine.
The unpreventable tragedies are bad, but the worst kind of tragedy is the one that was seen coming and happened anyways