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[Rentahamster]

Rogan tested negative for COVID today.

 

[Punished Miku]

These were both really informative and well done videos. Also they are not political videos, despite this being a political channel typically. Really interesting.

 

[juliushandle]

Oscar De La Hoya hospitalized with COVID, scuttling LA comeback fight

Legendary East Los Angeles boxer Oscar De La Hoya announced Friday that he has been hospitalized with COVID-19, despite being fully vaccinated, forcing him to withdraw from a planned comeback fight…

www.dailynews.com

fully vaccinated Oscar

 

[Nobody_Important]

But his gripe with Rogan isn't what he took. It's with releasing the video altogether. That's what everyone taking issue about Rogan has issue with.

It's not an article. It's tweets put put by MSNBC, WaPo, NPR, CBS News, and other news outlets that phrased the tweets as.











Unprofessional misleading garbage. Just utter trash.

But......ivermectin IS an anti-parasitic drug that is more commonly used in livestock than it is people? And he IS claiming to have taken a variety of unproven treatments. He said as much himself. A few of those are click-baity in their wording, but it's the truth even if its twisted to get clicks. I don't see the issue to be honest.



"Wealthy dumbass takes experimental treatments despite there being scientifically proven remedies" just doesn't get as many clicks as what you showed me.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Vicetrailia]

I heard that Rogan is vaccinated

 

[DragoonKain]

But......ivermectin IS an anti-parasitic drug that is more commonly used in livestock than it is people? And he IS claiming to have taken a variety of unproven treatments. He said as much himself. A few of those are click-baity in their wording, but it's the truth even if its twisted to get clicks. I don't see the issue to be honest.



"Wealthy dumbass takes experimental treatments despite there being scientifically proven remedies" just doesn't get as many clicks as what you showed me.

It's selective headlining, c'mon now.

The aim is obviously to try to paint him as a right wing conspiracist nut. There are so many more accurate and/or descriptive ways to put out a headline than the way they did.

There are no proven treatments for COVID. Nothing that has substantial success once you have symptoms. Once you get COVID and are symptomatic, you just cross your fingers it isn't severe. If it is or if it's moderate, there is no proven treatment that knocks COVID out of you. It's touch and go. And it varies by the hospital. Some use remdesivir, some use monoclonal antibodies, some use hydroxychloroquine. Some use dexamethasone. Some use a combination.

The only thing backed up with significant data is the vaccine. And we don't even know if he's vaccinated or not. That's it. They are trying to make it sound like he took Ivermectin and took that in place of some home run treatment that doesn't even exist.

The best known treatment currently for when you actually get COVID right now and have symptoms are the monoclonal antibodies. But even those are emergency authorization only and not fully FDA approved. And he took them.

And some of those headlines try to suggest that Ivermectin shouldn't even be used by humans for any reason with the way they're worded.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I heard that Rogan is vaccinated

If that's true then that would explain his easy recovery.

It's selective headlining, c'mon now.

The aim is obviously to try to paint him as a right wing conspiracist nut.

There are no proven treatments for COVID. Nothing that has substantial success once you have symptoms. Once you get COVID and are symptomatic, you just cross your fingers it isn't severe. If it is or if it's moderate, there is no proven treatment that knocks COVID out of you. It's touch and go. And it varies by the hospital. Some use remdesivir, some use monoclonal antibodies, some use hydroxychloroquine. Some use dexamethasone. Some use a combination.

The only thing backed up with significant data is the vaccine. And we don't even know if he's vaccinated or not. That's it. They are trying to make it sound like he took Ivermectin and took that in place of some home run treatment that doesn't even exist.

The best known treatment currently for when you actually get COVID right now and have symptoms are the monoclonal antibodies. But even those are emergency authorization only and not fully FDA approved. And he took them.

And some of those headlines try to suggest that Ivermectin shouldn't even be used by humans for any reason with the way they're worded.

I think its best to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see us agreeing on anything here.

 

[dcll]

This COVID shit is just crazy and all over the place , in my personal life I have known several people who has tested positive. My gf had it and my son and his gf tested positive as well at a different times. I have never been tested but surely I had it but was never sick, same with my son. I am not sickly and don’t get sick. My gf was sick but nothing crazy or different than some winter flu. Her ex mother in law who has autoimmune disorder and other issues had it and it wasn’t bad yet one of her clients who was a young guy 28 died from it.

 

[DragoonKain]

If that's true then that would explain his easy recovery.

I think its best to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see us agreeing on anything here.

What do you disagree with?

Joe Rogan identifies as left wing and a liberal. That is factual information. He's said that many times on his show.

And if there's any standard treatments for people with COVID symptoms who go to the doctors that I missed you can name them. As far as I'm aware when most people are hospitalized there is no "go-to" standard for treatment in terms of medicine. If you're really bad, you'll get oxygen, but that's not medicine.

 

[Nobody_Important]

What do you disagree with?

Joe Rogan identifies as left wing and a liberal. That is factual information. He's said that many times on his show.

And if there's any standard treatments for people with COVID symptoms who go to the doctors that I missed you can name them. As far as I'm aware when most people are hospitalized there is no "go-to" standard for treatment in terms of medicine. If you're really bad, you'll get oxygen, but that's not medicine.

Like I said. Agree to disagree. I am not going to tumble down this rabbit over someone like Rogan lol

 

[funkygunther]

What do you disagree with?

Joe Rogan identifies as left wing and a liberal. That is factual information. He's said that many times on his show.

And if there's any standard treatments for people with COVID symptoms who go to the doctors that I missed you can name them. As far as I'm aware when most people are hospitalized there is no "go-to" standard for treatment in terms of medicine. If you're really bad, you'll get oxygen, but that's not medicine.

Remdesevir in the US, in UK both remdesevir and dexamethasone are approved treatments for those hospitalised

 

[DragoonKain]

Like I said. Agree to disagree. I am not going to tumble down this rabbit over someone like Rogan lol

I mean, you can disagree, but that's like someone going up to you, asking what your favorite pizza topping is, you tell them pepperoni and they say "no it isn't, you like mushroom." And you say "no, I like pepperoni" and they say "agree to disagree."

 

[Nobody_Important]

I mean, you can disagree, but that's like someone going up to you, asking what your favorite pizza topping is, you tell them pepperoni and they say "no it isn't, you like mushroom." And you say "no, I like pepperoni" and they say "agree to disagree."

It's really not though in my opinion. This situation with Rogan and his "treatment" is fairly one sided in my view. I just don't feel like spending the next 30+ minutes explaining why I think that is only to end up right back where we started because you have made it fairly clear where you stand. Which is fine. Everyone has opinions and they are entitled to them. Just because I disagree with yours does not mean you are required to agree with where I am coming from. I get that.


But if this site has taught me anything over the years its when to recognize the difference between a debate/discussion that can lead towards a possible understanding and a complete waste of time. After seeing where you stand on this I don't see us coming anywhere near an agreement and I really don't want to be rude or waste our time since you have always been a pretty stand-up guy in my experience.


Hopefully we can find common ground another time.

 

[Punished Miku]

Rogan is fully invested in health, working out, and is skeptical of the media. He's a centrist but wants self-health to win. I think its just a blind spot of his. He's also personal friends with Weinstein who had been wronged by the media before but seems wrong on this one too.

 

[poppabk]

Rogan tested negative for COVID today.

Wait, so it was likely a false positive?

 

[DragoonKain]

It's really not though in my opinion. This situation with Rogan and his "treatment" is fairly one sided in my view. I just don't feel like spending the next 30+ minutes explaining why I think that is only to end up right back where we started because you have made it fairly clear where you stand. Which is fine. Everyone has opinions and they are entitled to them. Just because I disagree with yours does not mean you are required to agree with where I am coming from. I get that.


But if this site has taught me anything over the years its when to recognize the difference between a debate/discussion that can lead towards a possible understanding and a complete waste of time. After seeing where you stand on this I don't see us coming anywhere near an agreement and I really don't want to be rude or waste our time since you have always been a pretty stand-up guy in my experience.


Hopefully we can find common ground another time.

If you're disagreeing with my interpretation of the intent of the media and their headlines put on social media that's fine. I think it's pretty obvious what they were doing, but you're entitled to your opinion.

I thought you were saying you disagreed with what I said about Joe Rogan's beliefs. Which I don't even consider an opinion. I'm just relaying information directly from his mouth, just like I would if someone said they identify is gay. I'm not going to have an opinion on something like someone's beliefs or sexuality, it's none of my business, they are what they are.

 

[Chaplain]

Edited

 

[Dr_Salt]

Remdesevir in the US, in UK both remdesevir and dexamethasone are approved treatments for those hospitalised

I thought remdesivir was proven to be useless.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Edited

Sure, there are "conservatives" who are anti vaccination or even outright covid deniers, but to paint this as a conservative thing just sounds like yet another attempt at driving a wedge in society. Sowing more divisiveness. It's ludicrous.

I'm in construction, mainly finish work on (typically) high end houses. There have been four separate clients over the past year that were openly antivax, which has resulted in the company I work for to be like "yeah sorry, it's not worth it" and moving on to another job. These were all affluent, well educated people. Three of them I have worked with in the past and definitely aligned themselves on the left of the spectrum. The other guy, based on his behavior, appears to align the same way.

Sure, this is purely anecdotal, but I'm willing to bet that this isn't an isolated thing. The "white, redneck, conservative Christian antivax" stereotype emerged very early on, and while it definitely has merit, articles like the one above do nothing more than incite division through blanket assumptions at a time when the country really needs to be working together.

 

[Thesuffering79]

I thought remdesivir was proven to be useless.

Identification of 3-chymotrypsin like protease (3CLPro) inhibitors as potential anti-SARS-CoV-2 agents - Communications Biology

Here, the authors identify potential drugs that target 3-chymotrypsin like protease (3CLpro), which is a pivotal protease for the replication of SARS-CoV-2. They found that off-target inhibitors such as ivermectin and micafungin inhibit 3CLpro enzyme activity, suggesting that these molecules...

www.nature.com

Remdesivir reduces viral load by about 40% in lab studies.

 

[Punished Miku]

Homeland Security agents intercept counterfeit COVID-19 vaccine cards headed to Idaho - TCA content

Federal officials want to remind people that making fake coronavirus vaccine cards is a crime. The Department of Homeland Security agents in Seattle recently intercepted a shipment of counterfeit COVID-19 vaccine cards bound for Idaho, according to a tweet from the field office. “Maderna or...

samsung.tribunecontentagency.com

"Maderna."

 

[kaiju]

Sure, there are "conservatives" who are anti vaccination or even outright covid deniers, but to paint this as a conservative thing just sounds like yet another attempt at driving a wedge in society. Sowing more divisiveness. It's ludicrous.

I'm in construction, mainly finish work on (typically) high end houses. There have been four separate clients over the past year that were openly antivax, which has resulted in the company I work for to be like "yeah sorry, it's not worth it" and moving on to another job. These were all affluent, well educated people. Three of them I have worked with in the past and definitely aligned themselves on the left of the spectrum. The other guy, based on his behavior, appears to align the same way.

Sure, this is purely anecdotal, but I'm willing to bet that this isn't an isolated thing. The "white, redneck, conservative Christian antivax" stereotype emerged very early on, and while it definitely has merit, articles like the one above do nothing more than incite division through blanket assumptions at a time when the country really needs to be working together.

Yeah I really don't get how anti-vaxx equates to Trump lover. Trump himself was for the vaxx!

 

[kaiju]

My sister just got over having COVID a couple days ago. She had it pretty bad. Her symptoms first started on 8/21 and there were several days her fever got up to 103. By 8/25 her symptoms were getting worse - body aches, fever, nausea, bad cough and trouble breathing. She got an injection of Ivermectin and two days later she was better. Now, maybe the virus had already run its course and she would have gotten better anyways without it.....who knows but she's thankful she got it because she feels she would have ended up in the hospital without it.

Thank you for sharing! Exactly how I feel. I'm leaning towards it definitely helped.

 

[BadBurger]

Guys, please, consider the feelings of the anti-vaxxers: it's not just horse paste - it's also cat dewormer

In crazy anti-masker news.....

Angry Men With Zip-Ties Ambush School Principal After COVID Masking Request

The surreal confrontation stemmed from the Arizona school asking a child who was exposed to the virus to abide by public health guidelines.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Dr_Salt]

We are exploring in depth all these possible treatments.

Activ-6 Study | Participate in research seeking to understand how to effectively treat COVID from home.

Home — PRINCIPLE Trial

Become a hero from home and join the search for COVID-19 treatments. Sign-up for the PRINCIPLE trial today.

www.principletrial.org

https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/search?query=ivermectin+AND+covid-19

What's being attacked is irresponsible misinformation and stupidity that is actively causing harm.


Not being perfect is an irrelevant criticism. It is the most effective and proven countermeasure that we currently have to combat COVID. Getting 100% of the adult population in the world vaccinated is hands down the best thing we could do to get closer to the goal of making COVID disappear.


The best way to attack the problem with various solutions is to use the solutions that are actually proven to work.

The vaccines are proven to hinder infection and greatly hinder severe illness and death. It is the best option we have at the moment, and to not go in 100% on them is crazy.

You can still die, contract and infect other people with the vaccine. Thinking this gen of vaccines is gonna save the world from covid at this point is just plain stupid, no disrespect.
Only way for this to end is either a new gen covid vaccine which is not as leaky as this one is created or an effective treatment that drastically reduces covid related deaths is discovered.

 

[Rentahamster]

You can still die, contract and infect other people with the vaccine.

So what? The numbers are significantly worse for unvaccinated people. By a lot.

See here for proof: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/covi...fauci-edition.1608887/page-145#post-264465059

Thinking this gen of vaccines is gonna save the world from covid at this point is just plain stupid, no disrespect.

You have a better option? We need to use the best tool we have right now, and at this point in time, the only thing we have is the vaccine.

Only way for this to end is either a new gen covid vaccine which is not as leaky as this one is created

Leaky? What do you mean by that?

an effective treatment that drastically reduces covid related deaths is discovered.

We don't have any, which is why we use the tools that we have.

 

[Punished Miku]

Guys, please, consider the feelings of the anti-vaxxers: it's not just horse paste - it's also cat dewormer

In crazy anti-masker news.....

Angry Men With Zip-Ties Ambush School Principal After COVID Masking Request

The surreal confrontation stemmed from the Arizona school asking a child who was exposed to the virus to abide by public health guidelines.

www.thedailybeast.com

Im so glad I'm not a teacher. Besieged by clown terrorists.

 

[BadBurger]

Ok, so their new pivot is that we need super vaccines. Vaccines that prevent hospitalization and death by over 90%, and made it so that now over 90% of new cases are from unvaccinated people in most states, just aren't good enough.

- Work out vigorously six days a week (sorry those of you who cannot due to physical limitations or the typical time constraints of a gainfully-employed adult)

- Eat your horse paste

- Wait on The Omega Alpha Vaccine from Elon Musk

 

[Dr_Salt]

So what? The numbers are significantly worse for unvaccinated people. By a lot.

See here for proof: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/covi...fauci-edition.1608887/page-145#post-264465059


You have a better option? We need to use the best tool we have right now, and at this point in time, the only thing we have is the vaccine.


Leaky? What do you mean by that?


We don't have any, which is why we use the tools that we have.

So? People are still getting sick. Even Israel is getting hammered. These vaccines are not the solution to end covid. Maybe they will come up with better ones in the future who knows.
This is why you need to study stuff like ivermectin instead of calling it horse paste because it doesn't follow your political views or narrative. There are a bunch of other drugs that are being studied that also have similar in vitro antiviral activity. Ivermectin just happens to be one of them
I already explained what a leaky vaccine is like 50 pages ago. You can google it.

 

[Rentahamster]

So? People are still getting sick. Even Israel is getting hammered. These vaccines are not the solution to end covid. Maybe they will come up with better ones in the future who knows.

Please answer the question I asked you. What other tools do we have right now? What tools do we have against COVID that we can deploy today that mitigate as much death and illness as the current vaccines?

This is why you need to study stuff like ivermectin instead of calling it horse paste because it doesn't follow your political views or narrative. There are a bunch of other drugs that are being studied that also have similar in vitro antiviral activity. Ivermectin just happens to be one of them

We ARE studying these things. I showed you that, and even gave you links to how you can sign up for currently ongoing studies.

I already explained what a leaky vaccine is like 50 pages ago. You can google it.

Please explain it again. Even if I have to repeat myself, I explain things to you as how I understand them. Please do the same.

 

[Dr_Salt]

Please answer the question I asked you. What other tools do we have right now? What tools do we have against COVID that we can deploy today that mitigate as much death and illness as the current vaccines?


We ARE studying these things. I showed you that, and even gave you links to how you can sign up for currently ongoing studies.


Please explain it again. Even if I have to repeat myself, I explain things to you as how I understand them. Please do the same.

I'm not saying people should not get vaccinated I'm just saying its dumb to think these vaccines are gonna end covid. Also I wasn't talking specifically about you when I wrote about ivermectin. It was a general statement.
A leaky vaccine is a vaccine that does not prevent onwards transmission or infection.

Ok, so their new pivot is that we need super vaccines. Vaccines that prevent hospitalization and death by over 90%, and made it so that now over 90% of new cases are from unvaccinated people in most states, just aren't good enough.

- Work out vigorously six days a week (sorry those of you who cannot due to physical limitations or the typical time constraints of a gainfully-employed adult)

- Eat your horse paste

- Wait on The Omega Alpha Vaccine from Elon Musk

At this point I would rather have a better vaccine than having to have 3 jabs a day for the rest of my life like some vaccine shills have been parading.
Also doing exercise and not being a fatass is in your best interest. Its not even only a covid related interest. Imagine having your mind so warped that you start shaming exercise as a positive thing.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm not saying people should not get vaccinated

Then why do you keep complaining about them? They are the best thing we have right now, and we are currently researching things that can be better. Just because things aren't perfect right now doesn't mean they're terrible either.

I'm just saying its dumb to think these vaccines are gonna end covid.

Historically, vaccines are the only thing to have ever made diseases a non issue. Do we worry about smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, or rubella anymore? No. Why? Because of vaccines. We're using the best available tool until something better comes along. Is that stupid?

A leaky vaccine is a vaccine that does not prevent onwards transmission or infection.

Then all vaccines ever are leaky. No vaccine is 100% effective at anything. It's a spectrum.

Unless you provide a more specific definition, then your leaky vaccine worry is a non-issue.

 

[Dr_Salt]

Then why do you keep complaining about them? They are the best thing we have right now, and we are currently researching things that can be better. Just because things aren't perfect right now doesn't mean they're terrible either.


Historically, vaccines are the only thing to have ever made diseases a non issue. Do we worry about smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, or rubella anymore? No. Why? Because of vaccines. We're using the best available tool until something better comes along. Is that stupid?


Then all vaccines ever are leaky. No vaccine is 100% effective at anything. It's a spectrum.

Unless you provide a more specific definition, then your leaky vaccine worry is a non-issue.

Are those vaccines made for those viruses the same as they were day 1? Honestly idk but I'm willing to bet there were improvements made.
I'm talking about the current gen covid vaccines. Yes it is stupid to think at this point that these covid vaccines as they are today will get rid of covid for good. Like I said Israel is just proof that this is not going to stop anytime soon.

 

[Kilau]

Are those vaccines made for those viruses the same as they were day 1? Honestly idk but I'm willing to bet there were improvements made.
I'm talking about the current gen covid vaccines. Yes it is stupid to think at this point that these covid vaccines as they are today will get rid of covid for good. Like I said Israel is just proof that this is not going to stop anytime soon.

Could just be the nature of the SARS virus. Smallpox I don’t believe mutated much over thousands of years and a survivor had total immunity. Obviously covid survivors are not permanently immune after infection.

 

[Rentahamster]

Are those vaccines made for those viruses the same as they were day 1? Honestly idk but I'm willing to bet there were improvements made.

Improvements were made. The first version of the polio vaccine, for example, was actually somewhat dangerous, but people got it anyway because polio was still worse.

I'm talking about the current gen covid vaccines. Yes it is stupid to think at this point that these covid vaccines as they are today will get rid of covid for good. Like I said Israel is just proof that this is not going to stop anytime soon.

You still haven't answered my questions.

We're using the best available tool until something better comes along. Is that stupid?

Unless you provide a more specific definition, then your leaky vaccine worry is a non-issue.

Do you agree that the best tools right now to mitigate suffering and death from COVID are the vaccines?

 

[Malakhov]

I thought remdesivir was proven to be useless.

We're using it at work for patients in really bad shape

 

[Rentahamster]

More ivermectin discussion among professionals.

 

[Dr_Salt]

Improvements were made. The first version of the polio vaccine, for example, was actually somewhat dangerous, but people got it anyway because polio was still worse.


You still haven't answered my questions.

We're using the best available tool until something better comes along. Is that stupid?

Unless you provide a more specific definition, then your leaky vaccine worry is a non-issue.

Do you agree that the best tools right now to mitigate suffering and death from COVID are the vaccines?

I agree. I have already said 3 times that it is stupid to think these vaccines AS THEY ARE TODAY are going to get rid of covid for good.
This is why I say we should keep studying stuff like ivermectin and other drugs with antiviral activity that could help fight covid instead of going "derp ivermectin bad because its being used by conservatives, the right and Joe Bald Rogaine".

 

[Rentahamster]

I agree.

You agree that the best tools right now to mitigate suffering and death from COVID are the vaccines? That's good. Why are you always complaining about the best tools right now to mitigate the suffering and death from COVID?

I have already said 3 times that it is stupid to think these vaccines AS THEY ARE TODAY are going to get rid of covid for good.

That's great that you said this 3 times, but if you read carefully, this isn't the question I'm asking you. I'm not asking you whether or not it's reasonable to think the current vaccines will do that.

This is the question I'm asking you:

We're using the best available tool until something better comes along. Is that stupid?

Also, you still need to give a better definition for "leaky vaccine" because your previous one was not good for any meaningful analysis.

This is why I say we should keep studying stuff like ivermectin and other drugs with antiviral activity that could help fight covid

I've told you multiple times and I've given multiple links already that show you we are doing that, and that I support these studies very much. Do you acknowledge that there are studies ongoing right now that are doing trials of ivermectin and other drugs?

instead of going "derp ivermectin bad because its being used by conservatives, the right and Joe Bald Rogaine".

Irrelevant. The studies are ongoing. Criticism of people doing ill-informed things does not impact that research one way or another.

 

[Dr_Salt]

You agree that the best tools right now to mitigate suffering and death from COVID are the vaccines? That's good. Why are you always complaining about the best tools right now to mitigate the suffering and death from COVID?


That's great that you said this 3 times, but if you read carefully, this isn't the question I'm asking you. I'm not asking you whether or not it's reasonable to think the current vaccines will do that.

This is the question I'm asking you:

We're using the best available tool until something better comes along. Is that stupid?

Also, you still need to give a better definition for "leaky vaccine" because your previous one was not good for any meaningful analysis.


I've told you multiple times and I've given multiple links already that show you we are doing that, and that I support these studies very much. Do you acknowledge that there are studies ongoing right now that are doing trials of ivermectin and other drugs?


Irrelevant. The studies are ongoing. Criticism of people doing ill-informed things does not impact that research one way or another.

I'm against the forced vaccine narrative many governments have taken. I believe people should have the right to chose. I already said many times I'm not against vaccinations. I'm fully vaccinated yet I don't support totalitarianism. This is what makes some of you short circuit.
I never implied that what you are asking is stupid and to answer your question, no.
Also I know you are fully aware that there are various possible treatments being studied right now. I'm not directing that at you, its more of a general statement. Sorry I should have rephrased it in another way.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm against the forced vaccine narrative many governments have taken. I believe people should have the right to chose. I already said many times I'm not against vaccinations. I'm fully vaccinated yet I don't support totalitarianism. This is what makes some of you short circuit.
I never implied that what you are asking is stupid and to answer your question, no.
Also I know you are fully aware that there are various possible treatments being studied right now. I'm not directing that at you, its more of a general statement. Sorry I should have rephrased it in another way.

Cool. Thank you for directly answering my questions.

I'm against the forced vaccine narrative many governments have taken. I believe people should have the right to chose. I already said many times I'm not against vaccinations. I'm fully vaccinated yet I don't support totalitarianism. This is what makes some of you short circuit.

Makes some of us short circuit? That's curious. Consider this - in our quote chain today, I've not once mentioned mandates at all. I've strictly kept the topic to vaccine efficacy and usefulness. However you're the one changing the conversation to a "forced vaccine narrative". There might be "short circuiting" going on here, but you're the one who's exhibiting the signs of it (goalpost moving).

Remember that this is the statement that started our current conversation chain.

Yes I understand that point. I just don't see why we shouldn't be exploring in depth all these possible treatments instead of attacking them. In the end we all want covid to disappear and the truth is that while the vaccine is highly effective it is not perfect. We should be attacking the problem with various solutions.

Think about how many quotes and replies it took for you to acknowledge that yes, we actually are exploring in depth all these possible treatments. That should give you a hint.

 

[BadBurger]

The one who is getting all emotional and abiding by truthiness accuses others of "short circuiting". That's cute.

 

[Ichabod]

Sure, this is purely anecdotal, but I'm willing to bet that this isn't an isolated thing. The "white, redneck, conservative Christian antivax" stereotype emerged very early on, and while it definitely has merit, articles like the one above do nothing more than incite division through blanket assumptions at a time when the country really needs to be working together.

It's a classic social manipulation technique that's been used for ages. Constantly signal boost examples of the most lowest common denominator caricature of your opponent you can find and hammer that image into everyone's heads until it is accepted as fact. Works for politics, war, religion, and now health & science! Neato.

 

[Thesuffering79]

The one who is getting all emotional and abiding by truthiness accuses others of "short circuiting". That's cute.

I am definitely short circuited. I am completely broken by the number of anecdotal evidence, use of authority fallacy, number of posts claiming things without any evidence whatsoever, no links, use of news media to confirm their ideas and if that doesnt work use ad hominems. This thread is about as anti science as it gets. I am still astounded by the "zero studies show IVM as a prophylaxis" wihtout any links. I've even posted links to studies which overwhelming show effectiveness of IVM as a prophylaxis. I am probably done with this thread. Its about as frustrating as it gets.

 

[Rentahamster]

This thread is about as anti science as it gets.

If you honestly think that, you don't know how science is supposed to work.

I am still astounded by the "zero studies show IVM as a prophylaxis" wihtout any links.

Misrepresentation. We've seen your links, and we've told you they're not definitive. Two of the major ones have already been retracted or had their major errors exposed.

I've even posted links to studies which overwhelming show effectiveness of IVM as a prophylaxis.

And they're not definitive, and also low quality.

the number of anecdotal evidence, use of authority fallacy, number of posts claiming things without any evidence whatsoever

I would like to see multiple examples of this, that shows this is the rule and not the exception. I don't think this is true.

 

[BadBurger]

I am definitely short circuited. I am completely broken by the number of anecdotal evidence, use of authority fallacy, number of posts claiming things without any evidence whatsoever, no links, use of news media to confirm their ideas and if that doesnt work use ad hominems. This thread is about as anti science as it gets. I am still astounded by the "zero studies show IVM as a prophylaxis" wihtout any links. I've even posted links to studies which overwhelming show effectiveness of IVM as a prophylaxis. I am probably done with this thread. Its about as frustrating as it gets.

Numerous people have pointed out that you post non peer-reviewed, sometimes not even printed (meaning the journal in question is confident enough to open it up to the wider world in every way following peer review), studies, and how they didn't hold up to the frictions of reality. Meanwhile we're merely following what the actual data and science is telling us.

Also, we're not your secretaries. I am not going to provide a link to things that are common knowledge or could be examined after a simple Google search or a perusal of the various CDC and FDA websites. You're so ready to believe Facebook (et al) grifters and debunked non-print science journal studies, reject the actual scientists and associated medical experts out there, and yet lash out at others who are trying to inform you?

As for the ad hominems, I think that is actually far more heavy coming from your crowd than it is in the other direction. We tend to lampoon the dumb practices of anti-vaxxers as a whole, not them as individuals. Meanwhile your side has straight up called us liars and more for merely pointing out the facts. So stop with the persecution complex.

*shrug*. I'm not mad at you. I wish you would get vaxxed is all, and we've provided all the proof one would need to know that it's safe to do so.

 

[funkygunther]

I am definitely short circuited. I am completely broken by the number of anecdotal evidence, use of authority fallacy, number of posts claiming things without any evidence whatsoever, no links, use of news media to confirm their ideas and if that doesnt work use ad hominems. This thread is about as anti science as it gets. I am still astounded by the "zero studies show IVM as a prophylaxis" wihtout any links. I've even posted links to studies which overwhelming show effectiveness of IVM as a prophylaxis. I am probably done with this thread. Its about as frustrating as it gets.

this is completely disingenuous and an insult to the posters that spend so much time putting together sources and responding ad nauseum to the same claims over and over, and then to just run away because you don't like it...absolutely typical, well see ya mate

 

[Thesuffering79]

Numerous people have pointed out that you post non peer-reviewed, sometimes not even printed (meaning the journal in question is confident enough to open it up to the wider world in every way following peer review), studies, and how they didn't hold up to the frictions of reality. Meanwhile we're merely following what the actual data and science is telling us.

Also, we're not your secretaries. I am not going to provide a link to things that are common knowledge or could be examined after a simple Google search or a perusal of the various CDC and FDA websites. You're so ready to believe Facebook (et al) grifters and debunked non-print science journal studies, reject the actual scientists and associated medical experts out there, and yet lash out at others who are trying to inform you?

As for the ad hominems, I think that is actually far more heavy coming from your crowd than it is in the other direction. We tend to lampoon the dumb practices of anti-vaxxers as a whole, not them as individuals. Meanwhile your side has straight up called us liars and more for merely pointing out the facts. So stop with the persecution complex.

*shrug*. I'm not mad at you. I wish you would get vaxxed is all, and we've provided all the proof one would need to know that it's safe to do so.

Journals are just rent seeking industries using their power for their own benefit though say what they want you to say and they will generally print, I dont think journals are a good indicator of of the validity of a study. That said I agree with issues with some of the studies even though I believe peer review has devolved into group think. Not all studies are bad and even the ones with flaws are still useful.

And CDC is good and FDA because they have a huge amount of funding from industries isnt good enough. I want a meta analysis at the very least. Not one study but a host of studies where i can evaluate each study in what they are trying to do. Not all studies have the same hypothesis or methods or even dosage. So all of these things have to be taken account of. Ive seen many meta analysis of IVM and one of you post the one that shows nothing conclusive but the studies that show low effectiveness use single dose most of the time and the ones that show high effectiveness are multiple doses.

Ad hominems in the form of "horse paste lmao" is tiring. IVM has been used as a dewormer for everything not just humans. At least dewormer is accurate.

As for getting vaxxed, i am a special case because I believe vaccinations work. But I am not getting vaxxed because i kinda want to die before i am 60 or so. My doctor has prescribed me lipitor for so long and it has given me early dementia(plenty of studies show causal and are peer reviewed i believe). I cant remember what has happened 6 hours prior, cant tell if i had a shower at noon or if i changed my clothes. Frustrating as fuck. And there is no real cure for dementia. I saw my dad go through it and it scared me shitless. I am NOT going through that. I am kinda stuck taking it because he is the one that gives me the referral to see my psychiatrist which is really good.

Misrepresentation. We've seen your links, and we've told you they're not definitive. Two of the major ones have already been retracted or had their major errors exposed.

You take 2 of the ones that i didnt into this. Why?

As for definitive, of course not. But there will never will be a definitive study on it as a prophylaxis because there is no money in it. And there is pressure from big pharma not to do a real study on it.

this is completely disingenuous and an insult to the posters that spend so much time putting together sources and responding ad nauseum to the same claims over and over, and then to just run away because you don't like it...absolutely typical, well see ya mate

It was a generalized post. But yeah cya. I only saw one useful set of links from you guys thus far. And that was the meta analysis. Everything else was worthless.

 

[BadBurger]

Journals are just rent seeking industries using their power for their own benefit though say what they want you to say and they will generally print, I dont think journals are a good indicator of of the validity of a study. That said I agree with issues with some of the studies even though I believe peer review has devolved into group think. Not all studies are bad and even the ones with flaws are still useful.

And CDC is good and FDA because they have a huge amount of funding from industries isnt good enough. I want a meta analysis at the very least. Not one study but a host of studies where i can evaluate each study in what they are trying to do. Not all studies have the same hypothesis or methods or even dosage. So all of these things have to be taken account of. Ive seen many meta analysis of IVM and one of you post the one that shows nothing conclusive but the studies that show low effectiveness use single dose most of the time and the ones that show high effectiveness are multiple doses.

Ad hominems in the form of "horse paste lmao" is tiring. IVM has been used as a dewormer for everything not just humans. At least dewormer is accurate.

As for getting vaxxed, i am a special case because I believe vaccinations work. But I am not getting vaxxed because i kinda want to die before i am 60 or so. My doctor has prescribed me lipitor for so long and it has given me early dementia(plenty of studies show causal and are peer reviewed i believe). I cant remember what has happened 6 hours prior, cant tell if i had a shower at noon or if i changed my clothes. Frustrating as fuck. And there is no real cure for dementia. I saw my dad go through it and it scared me shitless. I am NOT going through that. I am kinda stuck taking it because he is the one that gives me the referral to see my psychiatrist which is really good.






You take 2 of the ones that i didnt into this. Why?

As for definitive, of course not. But there will never will be a definitive study on it as a prophylaxis because there is no money in it. And there is pressure from big pharma not to do a real study on it.



It was a generalized post. But yeah cya. I only saw one useful set of links from you guys thus far. And that was the meta analysis. Everything else was worthless.

Sorry for your troubles. My uncle, rest his soul, went through the same issues.