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Dr_Salt
Banned
Show me the the hundreds of in vivo studies on it. Someone else said there is like 1 massive in vivo study from the UK and its not even done.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I mean there are a ton of government programs:
Obesity Prevention and Healthy Weight Programs
NIFA and its Land-Grant System partners bring a holistic approach to solving the multifaceted obesity problem.
But you are right there is a concerted effort to push back against any direct government intervention even though just giving 'advice' clearly doesn't work.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
No. It's really not. Joe Rogans specific case is only interesting if you are a fan of his. Now if a couple thousand 54yr old dudes in a "high stress job" followed the exact treatment he claims to have received and suddenly started to get over Covid in a few days then that would be interesting because it would show a trend.
A singular case of someone having a mild case of something does not prove anything. Especially in the case of Covid where the experience from person to person is so widely varied. There have been young people who have had severe cases and get hospitalized while at the same time there have been 70yr olds who just have mild cases and are better in less than a week. It varies wildly. Rogan could have had a mild case even if he didn't take any of the stuff he is claiming to have taken. And it could have been worse. But we don't know. Because one case is not enough to make any serious discussion on and is certainly not enough to make an argument for widespread use of any experimental treatments that he might have taken.
Cyberpunkd
Member
That effort is called ‘food companies like to make money’.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Has anyone else been enough of a masochist to read some of the Twitter comments on The Joe Rogan stories by the way?
It is baffling to me that people on social media are willing to take Rogan at his word and use his singular case as proof that such and such treatment works and use it as "proof" the vaccine is nonsense or whatever......but at the same time will naysay an FDA approved vaccine that has been thoroughly tested and been applied to great success millions of times.
It makes no fucking sense to me.
It is baffling to me that people on social media are willing to take Rogan at his word and use his singular case as proof that such and such treatment works and use it as "proof" the vaccine is nonsense or whatever......but at the same time will naysay an FDA approved vaccine that has been thoroughly tested and been applied to great success millions of times.
It makes no fucking sense to me.
thefool
Member
Scientists not backing Covid jabs for 12 to 15-year-olds
But 200,000 extra children with underlying conditions will now be eligible for two doses.
www.bbc.co.uk
DaleinCalgary
Member
Let Darwin's theory do its work.
PS.. Preparation H also is a good lip balm for the upcoming winter dry lip season.
Kilau
Member
Everyone is different but that seems longer than I’ve heard. My own side effects lasted less than 36 hours.
I don’t think you should be worried but maybe put a call in to your doctor for some feedback.
Hope you feel better soon.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Health Officials Advise White House to Scale Back Booster Plan for Now
Federal regulators warned on Thursday they may not have enough data to recommend boosters for anyone except certain recipients of the Pfizer vaccine by late September.
Looking less likely that I'll be able to get the 3rd shot on time. Might be October at this rate.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah about 24 - 36 hours for me to. I wasn't too bad, fever of 102 consistently for a full day, but the feeling was disconcerting as I was 'ill' without actually being ill and my brain didn't quite know how to deal with it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Health Officials Advise White House to Scale Back Booster Plan for Now
Federal regulators warned on Thursday they may not have enough data to recommend boosters for anyone except certain recipients of the Pfizer vaccine by late September.www.nytimes.com
Looking less likely that I'll be able to get the 3rd shot on time. Might be October at this rate.
Was reading about that yesterday. Basically the FDA said there isn't enough data to justify boosters, but the White House and CDC jumped the gun and put out the recommendation anyways.
DaleinCalgary
Member
Health Officials Advise White House to Scale Back Booster Plan for Now
Federal regulators warned on Thursday they may not have enough data to recommend boosters for anyone except certain recipients of the Pfizer vaccine by late September.
Looking less likely that I'll be able to get the 3rd shot on time. Might be October at this rate.
I got my 3rd shot yesterday - Pfizer and didnt feel anything this morning. Last time it kicked the crap out of me with a sore back only.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It's a little ironic because this already happened. Pfizer said first they recommend a booster, and the white house criticized them for jumping the gun. Then the white house agreed and now FDA is accusing them of jumping the gun. Then the FDA will likely approve it next month.
Everyone's just slow basically. I'm fairly confident they'll approve it. I do think its kind of crappy they keep moving the goal post exclusively to "prevents serious illness and death" instead of addressing the main claim, which is prevention of infection increasing substantially with the booster. I'd rather just get the shot and be less likely to get it period, not only avoid serious infection and death. Oh well.
Are you considered high risk / immunocompromised then? Currently seems to only be approved for that group 28 days after shot 2.
DaleinCalgary
Member
Nope, I'm healthy as an Ox.
Little story behind this. In my province and in Canada in general we were behind getting vaccines because we are slackers and don't actually have any labs that make them for us so our Fed government ordered from wherever they could to get and that was AstraZeneca for many non high risk population and seniors got Pfizer or Moderna.
So my first dose was Astra in April then Pfizer in June. They announced late last week that for people planning on traveling to countries that don't allow Astra as an official vaccine you could get boosters of Pfizer if you want so I got a 3rd shot and now I'm in the 2 dose pfizer group and good to go. The interesting part is if you got a Astra first and you did have the choice for a second shot and chose Astra again you can get Pfizer as a 3rd and in 28 days after a 4th shot of pfizer!
Not joking
edit: note if you got 2 Pfizer you cant get a 3rd shot just yet.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I mentioned it earlier in this thread but the issue isn't whether ivermectin is effective, it might be but the evidence isn't there right now to convince a lot or most of the people responsible for making universal treatment measures.
But ivermectin is this hot button issue because, like HCQ before it, it is positioned as not the cure for COVID, but the cure for lockdowns, vaccines, masks, social distancing. It is the beacon for people who think that the impact of COVID could have been avoided if 'they' hadn't wanted it to have these impacts.
Setzer
Member
My sister just got over having COVID a couple days ago. She had it pretty bad. Her symptoms first started on 8/21 and there were several days her fever got up to 103. By 8/25 her symptoms were getting worse - body aches, fever, nausea, bad cough and trouble breathing. She got an injection of Ivermectin and two days later she was better. Now, maybe the virus had already run its course and she would have gotten better anyways without it.....who knows but she's thankful she got it because she feels she would have ended up in the hospital without it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Prayer works.
FunkMiller
Member
Well. Certain People in the United States who belong to certain organisations have championed ivermectin as a cure, have downplayed the seriousness of covid, and have thrown doubt on the efficacy of the vaccine. They have done all this to achieve certain aims that they feel will be of benefit to their future success.
A lot of other people like these Certain People, and will believe what they say... and automatically disbelieve anything said by anyone else.
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Dr_Salt
Banned
Yes I understand that point. I just don't see why we shouldn't be exploring in depth all these possible treatments instead of attacking them. In the end we all want covid to disappear and the truth is that while the vaccine is highly effective it is not perfect. We should be attacking the problem with various solutions.
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DaleinCalgary
Member
The sad part it's the "certain organizations" against each other. I've never seen so much stupidity as politics determines how you treat a medical issue.
This makes absolutely zero sense to me at all. Social media and its influence over the stupid and gullible should be held liable for this misinformation.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
We are exploring in depth all these possible treatments.
Home — PRINCIPLE Trial
Become a hero from home and join the search for COVID-19 treatments. Sign-up for the PRINCIPLE trial today.
What's being attacked is irresponsible misinformation and stupidity that is actively causing harm.
Not being perfect is an irrelevant criticism. It is the most effective and proven countermeasure that we currently have to combat COVID. Getting 100% of the adult population in the world vaccinated is hands down the best thing we could do to get closer to the goal of making COVID disappear.
The best way to attack the problem with various solutions is to use the solutions that are actually proven to work.
The vaccines are proven to hinder infection and greatly hinder severe illness and death. It is the best option we have at the moment, and to not go in 100% on them is crazy.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
We should 100% be attacking the idea people should be self medicating like some of these ridiculous grifters on social media have been suggesting.
And we should be attacking the problem with proven solutions. Not just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks along the way.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
True
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
We are though. The PRINCIPAL trial in the UK for example is looking at multiple therapies (and has published positive findings for some already) including Invermectin.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yeah this is just another thing that flies high over the heads of the anti-mask anti-vax people.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Herd immunity goalposts are moving. Just wait. For December when they will say you need 110%
With delta variant circulating, L.A. County will need more than 80% vaccinated to reach herd immunity
With the highly contagious delta variant still predominant in Los Angeles County, public health officials say the region will no longer reach herd immunity against the coronavirus once 80% of eligi…ktla.com
The goalposts move, not arbitrarily, but due to the delta variant. It's math.
For herd immunity to be achieved, a virus' reproductive number has to be reduced to below one.
It's calculated by taking the virus' R0 reproduction number, and multiplying that by [1 - (vaccination rate x vaccine efficacy)]
Original COVID19 had a R0 of around 3, and our vaccines had an efficacy of greater than 90%. Using those numbers, we could reach herd immunity with about 75% of us getting the vaccine (which is around 80% of all eligible people since kids can't get vaccinated yet).
However, the delta variant has a higher R0, similar to chickenpox. Estimates say that it's around 5 to 9. Furthermore, vaccine efficacy against delta has fallen too, to around 40 to 80%. Using these new numbers, the only thing that can be adjusted is to increase the amount of people who are vaccinated.
Of course, that's just in the context of vaccinations. The effective reproduction number can be further reduced with countermeasures like masking, social distancing, and contact tracing. This is why until we get a new vaccine that has a high efficacy against transmission, we still need to throw as many proven mitigations against this virus as possible, within reason.
Yup, but people need another year to digest this ..
Aesius
Member
I just don't see the 3rd dose being very popular. It's similar to how social distancing was widely adopted during the first few months of the pandemic and then people started to relax more in the summer once masks became commonplace and mandated. Or even how masks were widely adopted and accepted originally and now people are extremely reluctant to go back to them after mandates were briefly dropped. You only get one chance at stuff like this. A 3rd or, god forbid, 4th dose (and so on) of the vaccine is going to be a tough sell. Not just from a personal decision standpoint, but from a logistical standpoint. And it will get even tougher with each successive booster. I feel like a lot of these decisions always fail to account for human nature.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This is a good video that succinctly summarizes what's going on with Ivermenctin.
His newest video talking specifically about Joe Rogan is very good too.
CAB_Life
he also made a very informative video about exercise and COVID, that covers a lot of the topics you hit on.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
We currently have a surplus of vaccines and not enough people taking them. Our initial rollout was done well enough, although I think it could have been faster. As time goes on, our logistical supply chain will only improve. I don't think logistics will be that big of a problem.
The 3rd dose may not be popular, but those are the facts and facts don't care about the feelings of snowflakes.
Aesius
Member
It's not the logistics of administration sites or having the doses on hand. It's the logistics of getting people TO those sites. And getting out effective messaging that a third dose is needed.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The logistics of getting people to vaccination sites should be a problem as long as it's as easy as taking a trip to your local drug store or pharmacy like CVS, Walgreens, or Walmart.
However, the persuasion aspect to effectively target the vocal minority of stubborn holdouts will be a problem, since it's already a problem now.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I think the most egregious stuff in this case is how disingenuously it's being portrayed by the media. They haven't reported the story accurately at all. When your headline reads "Rogan took ivermectin, a horse medicine, to try to cure COVID" you know there's an agenda.
I haven't even seen a lot of people arguing what he did is proof of any kind against the vaccines, but I'm sure you'll always find idiots and/or bots on any social media platform trying to drum up drama.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Is it though? I only see one headline like that in a google news search I did just now.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
This is a good video that succinctly summarizes what's going on with Ivermenctin.
His newest video talking specifically about Joe Rogan is very good too.
I take issue with that doctor's portrayal of what Joe said. He didn't say "I took these drugs and they worked for me." He said "I got COVID, this is what we did, and I'm currently feeling better." That is a significant difference.
Nowhere did he once say "Ivermectin made my COVID better."
He merely gave an update of what happened, what he took, and where he currently stands. If someone reads too much into that and decides to copy what he did, that's on them. You can't help stupid.
People are just looking for reasons to dunk on him because they think he's an anti-vaxer.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Yes, trust me. It was all over Twitter. I saw at least a half dozen of them.Is it though? I only see one headline like that in a google news search I did just now.
"Joe Rogan, known anti-vaxer, contracts COVID and took a horse drug Ivermectin"
all variations of that headline.
They did it because they want to get rage clicks. Both from angry people knowing they mislead, or people happy to see him sick thinking he's an anti-vaxer. They know exactly what they're doing with those headlines. And they know 75% of people don't even read articles, just headlines. So the far majority of people who read these social media headlines think Rogan got COVID and went commando and took Ivermectin on his own and took nothing else.
It's wrong and it's exactly why the term "fake news" has merit.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You're really splitting hairs here, especially when Rogan at the end thanks modern medicine for pulling him out of this. Basic linguistics would suggest that the drug treatment he outlined at the beginning is being referenced.
Whether he likes it or not, Rogan is a source of information for many people. With great power comes great responsibility. It's the problem with not wanting to be a role model. In reality, it's not up to the role model. It's up to the people who make them a role model. You can make disclaimers all you want, but it only absolves responsibility in the legal sense.
Your initial criticism was about the media, and I gave you an example of the media. Twitter isn't the same thing. Twitter is a social media ecosystem designed to amplify tribal behavior for clicks.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
But all he did was give an update on his status. He’s a public figure who puts out content. People are going to want to know what’s going on when he hasn’t uploaded a video in a while. So he gave a detailed update. That’s what pretty much everyone does. “I got COVID, here’s what I was given, here’s how I’m feeling.”
is he not supposed to tell people what happened? The criticisms are absurd. Hell, even if he didn't mention what he took, people would say “Rogan, who Isn’t vaccinated, by saying he got COVID and is feeling better is trying to suggest you don’t need the vaccine.”
people with an agenda are going to pick at whatever he says and take issue with it.
Yes, my criticism is of the media. The twitter accounts of the media networks were posting their news stories on social media knowing people will read the misleading headlines and probably not even read the story.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If you're going to reduce the situation down that much, then I could just as well say that all the doctor did was give his professional opinion about Joe's status update. People are going to want to know what's going on about a particular COVID related topic from a COVID professional. That's pretty much what everyone does. "Someone did X to treat their COVID, here's what I think about it".
Is Dr. Mike not supposed to tell people what happened?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Can you link that article please?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
New DNA vaccines approved for emergency use in India.
www.nature.com
Topically administered, not an injection.
Easier to produce than mRNA vaccines.
Easier to store than mRNA vaccines.
Less effective than mRNA vaccines.
India’s DNA COVID vaccine is a world first – more are coming
The ZyCoV-D vaccine heralds a wave of DNA vaccines for various diseases that are undergoing clinical trials around the world.
www.nature.com
Topically administered, not an injection.
Easier to produce than mRNA vaccines.
Easier to store than mRNA vaccines.
Less effective than mRNA vaccines.
QSD
Member
The basic problem here, as I've always argued, is one of trust
A lot of people trust Rogan. In the end, whatever you think of Rogan, Weinstein, or any other player in this crazy vaccine/ivermectin story, people are free to place their trust where they may. A lot of the time I'm not surprised people trust these alternative media figures over every other serpentine PR representative that the government or pharma wheels out to toe the party line. As you know I placed a lot of (unwarranted, it turns out) faith in Bret Weinstein myself. In the end, one way to describe the problem would be "Government/institutional communication fails to inspire the requisite amount of trust to successfully roll out a vaccination campaign". Where the lack of trust can't just be made the fault of the hesitant. Sure, they're abnormally paranoid, but if you take a cursory glance at recent history it's not a completely unwarranted paranoia.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
But his gripe with Rogan isn't what he took. It's with releasing the video altogether. That's what everyone taking issue about Rogan has issue with.
It's not an article. It's tweets put put by MSNBC, WaPo, NPR, CBS News, and other news outlets that phrased the tweets as.
Unprofessional misleading garbage. Just utter trash.
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Slaylock
Member
I read the headlines for those tweets and thought they must be from random twitter idiots. The mainstream media must have formed a unified cabal to decide their response to anything that goes against their agenda.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
They're threatened by his influence, because his audience is way bigger than all of them, and they're trying to paint him out to be a right wing conspiracist nut.
There's a reason their headlines don't read "Joe Rogan contracted COVID, said he's feeling better" or "Joe Rogan has COVID, said he took monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, and prednisone."
It's "Joe Rogan, critic of the vaccine took ivermectin a horse drug the FDA warns not to ingest." Which btw isn't even accurate. Ivermectin can be "ingested" it just has been unproven to work for COVID and people shouldn't self-dose. They're making it sound like he took antifreeze.
These are the same outlets who have put out headlines in the past "Joe Rogan, who's had a transphobic past, said X, Y, and Z" and when you find out what he said it was simply "Trans women should not fight biological women in UFC."
They're all embarrassing.
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