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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

thefool

Member
I thought remdesivir was proven to be useless.

It is useless. Gilead is so deep on the pockets of the medical community that while WHO Guideline Development Group advises against use of remdesivir for covid-19, they still have been able convince several health bodies to drain their immense stock of pills.

This only shows how absurd Ivermectin discussion really is when some medical communities are pushing for treatments that we know that do not work. WHO puts it very bluntly:

The antiviral drug remdesivir is not suggested for patients admitted to hospital with covid-19, regardless of how severely ill they are

Strangely enough, some media doesn't get pissy about patients being treated with proven useless treatments.
 

thefool

Member
No it's actually an FDA approved antiviral treatment that proved far more effective than placebo. Numerous studies. Please stop spreading bullshit, this isn't /r/conspiracy

It is useless as determined by World Health Organization, deliberated after their WHO Solidarity Trial results and three other controlled randomized clinical trials.


Stop spreading bullshit gilead sponsored propaganda.
 
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thefool

Member
Sometimes scientific organizations disagree. The studies still are the metals.

Which is why there are rigorous controlled protocol clinical trials to gauge the drug efficacy, which have lead to the conclusion it is useless. The same trials that concluded hydroxychloroquine is also useless.


That other organizations approve drugs based on sketchy data is their own responsibility and doesn't change the results of independent rigorous clinical trials.
 
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BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Which is why there are rigorous controlled protocol clinical trials to gauge the drug efficacy, which have lead to the conclusion it is useless.

It's an FDA approved treatment with documented positive results. If you want to keep denying reality cool, but please stop tagging me when you do so.
 

thefool

Member
It's an FDA approved treatment with documented positive results. If you want to keep denying reality cool, but please stop tagging me when you do so.

You're the one who's denying the results of rigorous independent clinical trials. Ivermectin has also been heavily used as a treatment on latin america, doesn't change its benefits-risk profile.
You are also the one who tagged me spreading bullshit information about a useless drug and comparing WHO's conclusions to conspiracy.
 

Chaplain

Member


Prof. Zywicki has already contracted and fully recovered from Covid-19. As a result, he has acquired robust natural immunity, confirmed unequivocally by multiple positive SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests conducted over the past year. In fact, Prof. Zywicki’s immunologist, Dr. Hooman Noorchashm, has advised him that, based on his personal health and immunity status, it is medically unnecessary to get a Covid-19 vaccine—and that it violates medical ethics to order unnecessary procedures. As a result of the exemption it granted, GMU is permitting Prof. Zywicki to remain unvaccinated for medical reasons. GMU has assured Prof. Zywicki that he will not be subject to disciplinary action, and that he will be allowed to hold office hours and attend in-person events provided he maintains six feet of distance. He must get tested for Covid-19 once per week on campus at no cost to himself. This favorable result should encourage others to fight irrational vaccine mandates elsewhere on the same bases laid out in the Zywicki complaint against GMU.
 

Jaysen

Banned
I instantly classify people who call ivermectin(the chemical compound itself) "horse paste" as dumbasses.
Ivermectin has been used in humans for decades and it is a well studied drug. Its very safe and as long as you are taking an appropriate dose nothing is gonna happen to you regardless of its efficacy against covid.
If only the dispshits you’re constantly defending weren’t buying it at feed stores.
 

Jaysen

Banned
They're threatened by his influence, because his audience is way bigger than all of them, and they're trying to paint him out to be a right wing conspiracist nut.

There's a reason their headlines don't read "Joe Rogan contracted COVID, said he's feeling better" or "Joe Rogan has COVID, said he took monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, and prednisone."

It's "Joe Rogan, critic of the vaccine took ivermectin a horse drug the FDA warns not to ingest." Which btw isn't even accurate. Ivermectin can be "ingested" it just has been unproven to work for COVID and people shouldn't self-dose. They're making it sound like he took antifreeze.

These are the same outlets who have put out headlines in the past "Joe Rogan, who's had a transphobic past, said X, Y, and Z" and when you find out what he said it was simply "Trans women should not fight biological women in UFC."

They're all embarrassing.
Your defense of that idiot is pretty embarrassing.

Whats amazing are all the idiots pointing to Joe as a reason to not get vaccinated. “Durr he was only really sick for three days and he pumped himself with all these expensive drugs. That’s all you gotta do!” And these same dumbshits will attack anyone who says they got covid and felt nothing and needed no extra drugs because they had already taken a free vaccine that has been proven to work. That’s why antivaxxers are the butt of all the jokes. They’re straight up morons.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
This state is so embarrassing 🤦‍♂️



Constantly warned how bad it would be, constantly reminded to vaccinate, constantly reminded to take precautions, constantly reminded that the school year will result in increased cases, and everyone STILL isn't ready to handle what they were told was going to happen months ago.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It is useless. Gilead is so deep on the pockets of the medical community that while WHO Guideline Development Group advises against use of remdesivir for covid-19, they still have been able convince several health bodies to drain their immense stock of pills.

This only shows how absurd Ivermectin discussion really is when some medical communities are pushing for treatments that we know that do not work. WHO puts it very bluntly:



Strangely enough, some media doesn't get pissy about patients being treated with proven useless treatments.
If people start claiming that the entire pandemic could have been avoided if people just took remdesvir, quoting poor or outright fraudulent studies that show remdesvir had 90% effectiveness, and touting remdesvir as an alternative to vaccination, then yeah there will be push back.
 

Dr_Salt

Banned
Cool. Thank you for directly answering my questions.


Makes some of us short circuit? That's curious. Consider this - in our quote chain today, I've not once mentioned mandates at all. I've strictly kept the topic to vaccine efficacy and usefulness. However you're the one changing the conversation to a "forced vaccine narrative". There might be "short circuiting" going on here, but you're the one who's exhibiting the signs of it (goalpost moving).

Remember that this is the statement that started our current conversation chain.


Think about how many quotes and replies it took for you to acknowledge that yes, we actually are exploring in depth all these possible treatments. That should give you a hint.
I haven't changed my position once since I started posting here as I don't really care if people are vaccinated or not unlike some posters who wish death unto others because they don't think like them. I believe the vaccine is useful in preventing serious cases of covid and thats it.
Yea maybe you acknowledge that ivermectin is being studied while others just go "hur dur ivermectin=horse paste" because that is what msm is telling them. Those are the people I'm talking about if you haven't figured that out yet.
Idk what is your definition of a in depth study is but the fact there is only 1 substantial study on ivermectin being made just leaves you thinking.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yeah someone already tried posting that. A highly vaccinated country still having a large number of cases doesn't actually disprove what I said. We already know that breakthrough cases are a thing. If 100% of the US was vaccinated we would still see Covid cases. That doesn't mean that the vaccine does not give you some measure of protection of catching it in the first place.


Here you go. From the CDC itself.
 
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Dr_Salt

Banned
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
People are still contracting it in record numbers in Israel so its not like its doing a very good job in preventing infection/transsmision over there. Unless you want to blame everything on the unvaxxed in Israel which are the minority.
I edited the post to better explain why you are wrong, but like I said in the edit even if 100% of the US was vaccinated we would still see Covid cases because we know that breakthrough cases exist. However that does not mean that the vaccine gives you no protection of actually contracting Covid in the first place. The vaccinated have a smaller chance of hospitalizations and contracting it in the first place. We know that.


That's why I linked the CDC article I did. Please read it.
 
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thefool

Member
Israel was the second country in the world with more cases per capita last week.

3L6NUtx.png



It will be relevant to understand the breakdown of these cases in the coming weeks.
 

Dr_Salt

Banned
I edited the post to better explain why you are wrong, but like I said in the edit even if 100% of the US was vaccinated we would still see Covid cases because we know that breakthrough cases exist. However that does not mean that the vaccine gives you no protection of actually contracting Covid in the first place. The vaccinated have a smaller chance of hospitalizations and contracting it in the first place. We know that.


That's why I linked the CDC article I did. Please read it.
I read it yet here we are with Israel having almost the same number of cases that they had in September-October 2020 before the vaccine.
 

Dr_Salt

Banned
It is useless. Gilead is so deep on the pockets of the medical community that while WHO Guideline Development Group advises against use of remdesivir for covid-19, they still have been able convince several health bodies to drain their immense stock of pills.

This only shows how absurd Ivermectin discussion really is when some medical communities are pushing for treatments that we know that do not work. WHO puts it very bluntly:



Strangely enough, some media doesn't get pissy about patients being treated with proven useless treatments.
This is what I read then. The fact that some people dismiss this just shows you that they follow only the science that supports their narrative.
 
This is what I read then. The fact that some people dismiss this just shows you that they follow only the science that supports their narrative.

Is your argument solely about Israel having a lot of cases, or is it about the vaccine being useless against transmission because Israel has a lot of cases?
 

Dr_Salt

Banned
Is your argument solely about Israel having a lot of cases, or is it about the vaccine being useless against transmission because Israel has a lot of cases?
It doesn't seem to be useless according to what Nobody_Important Nobody_Important just shared. It also doesn't seem to be helping much to stop transmission at least in Israel. Maybe you could explain what is happening there better? I only see the constant goalpost movement of now we need 110% to be vaccinated to reach heard immunity and 3 jabs per day to keep immune response up.
 
It doesn't seem to be useless according to what Nobody_Important Nobody_Important just shared. It also doesn't seem to be helping much to stop transmission at least in Israel. Maybe you could explain what is happening there better? I only see the constant goalpost movement of now we need 110% to be vaccinated to reach heard immunity and 3 jabs per day to keep immune response up.

I don't know what's happening there, but I'm also not jumping to conclusions on its effectiveness against transmission when you have studies like NI listed and other similarly vaccinated countries to compare to.
 

Jaysen

Banned
I haven't changed my position once since I started posting here as I don't really care if people are vaccinated or not unlike some posters who wish death unto others because they don't think like them. I believe the vaccine is useful in preventing serious cases of covid and thats it.
Yea maybe you acknowledge that ivermectin is being studied while others just go "hur dur ivermectin=horse paste" because that is what msm is telling them. Those are the people I'm talking about if you haven't figured that out yet.
Idk what is your definition of a in depth study is but the fact there is only 1 substantial study on ivermectin being made just leaves you thinking.
Won’t somebody please consider the feelings of people willfully spreading bullshit on the internet that puts the lives of others at severe risk!
 

Dr_Salt

Banned
Won’t somebody please consider the feelings of people willfully spreading bullshit on the internet that puts the lives of others at severe risk!
What feelings? You literally wish death on people posting stuff on facebook. That's pretty psycho behaviour if you ask me. People with an ounce of intelligence can spot the fake news pretty easily. If they still decide to not get vaccinated and die then thats their choice. Also before the old "but there are not enough beds for everyone in the hospital!" I support giving priority to vaccinated and tax paying people.
 

Jaysen

Banned
What feelings? You literally wish death on people posting stuff on facebook. That's pretty psycho behaviour if you ask me. People with an ounce of intelligence can spot the fake news pretty easily. If they still decide to not get vaccinated and die then thats their choice. Also before the old "but there are not enough beds for everyone in the hospital!" I support giving priority to vaccinated and tax paying people.
I don’t wish death on idiots who spend their lives encouraging others to risk their lives and endanger the lives of everyone else. But I also don’t feel bad when those fucking idiots get covid and die. It’s hilarious to me that people like you view the two sides as somehow equal and deserving of respect. It’s fucking stupid.
 
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Dr_Salt

Banned
I don’t wish death on idiots who spend their lives encouraging others to risk their lives and endanger the lives of everyone else. But I also don’t feel bad when those fucking idiots get covid and die. It’s hilarious to me that people like you view the two sides as somehow equal and deserving of respect. It’s fucking stupid.
I know the concept of social liberty is hard to understand for you.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
unlike some posters who wish death unto others because they don't think like them.
Please provide proof of this.

Yea maybe you acknowledge that ivermectin is being studied while others just go "hur dur ivermectin=horse paste" because that is what msm is telling them. Those are the people I'm talking about if you haven't figured that out yet.
"If I haven't figured that out yet"? Oh please. Don't be so smug when moving the goalposts. Read again what you wrote.
Yes I understand that point. I just don't see why we shouldn't be exploring in depth all these possible treatments instead of attacking them.

Multiple times, you've made the claim that we're not studying Ivermectin in depth, even though we've proved to you multiple times that you're wrong. Don't try to deflect this point when it's so painfully clear.

Idk what is your definition of a in depth study is but the fact there is only 1 substantial study on ivermectin being made just leaves you thinking.
Wrong again, as I have already shown you multiple ongoing studies from major universities in the USA and UK. Either you didn't read my post, forgot what it said, didn't understand it, or are lying.


We are exploring in depth all these possible treatments.






I believe the vaccine is useful in preventing serious cases of covid and thats it.
Wrong yet again. This keeps happening over and over again. I keep having to correct you.

Read this post. It has data from multiple countries about how areas with higher vaccination rates have lower case rates.


I read it yet here we are with Israel having almost the same number of cases that they had in September-October 2020 before the vaccine.
Here's a giant tell for cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. You cherrypick the only data point that confirms your thinking and ignore everything else. You're not being rational.

Maybe you could explain what is happening there better?
It's pretty simple. There are two main reasons that combined together into a perfect storm.

Reason 1: Israel was one of the first countries to start vaccinating their citizens on a large scale. They already had 14% of their population vaccinated by January 5.


Over the months since we've administered the vaccines and have been monitoring the results, we've noticed that the ability of the vaccines to prevent transmission wanes over time. Multiple countries have looked at this, and they peg the figure at somewhere around 40% to 80%. The studies done in Israel indicate the lowest level of effectiveness at around 40%. This is probably because the waning of the vaccination's effectiveness increases over time, and since Israel vaccinated first, their vaccine protection is the waning the most.

Reason 2: The delta variant. As we know, the delta variant is both much more infectious, and is much better at causing breakthrough infections than the original strain of SARSCOV2. By June, it was 70% of the COVID cases in Israel.


The perfect storm: Reason 1 + reason 2 = Israel's waning vaccination protection happens at the exact same time that they get hit by the delta variant, which means many people get infected.

Recent studies suggest that 6 months is the timeframe in which the vaccines experience significant weakening, and it was in at 6 months when the delta COVID cases in Israel started to explode.

Other countries don't experience the same effect because they got the vaccine more recently, and delta had not reached their people yet.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
This is what I read then. The fact that some people dismiss this just shows you that they follow only the science that supports their narrative.
Ironic. That's what you're doing, as I've pointed out over and over and over again.
It doesn't seem to be useless according to what Nobody_Important Nobody_Important just shared. It also doesn't seem to be helping much to stop transmission at least in Israel. Maybe you could explain what is happening there better?
Here's even more evidence from Israel itself. This is my post to Zefah a while back. He kept talking about Israel too.


The per capita infection rates and severe illness rates for vaccinated (green) Israelis over 60 are in fact lower than the unvaccinated (blue).​
RyPRrhT.png
The per capita infection rates and severe illness rates for vaccinated (green) Israelis under 60 are also lower than the unvaccinated (blue).​
b0YY8Bl.png
Among active patients with COVID, most of them are vaccinated, but that's because most Israelis are vaccinated. Looking at the per capita rate, unvaccinated Israelis are much more highly represented.​
LwrSiYb.png


I only see the constant goalpost movement of now we need 110% to be vaccinated to reach heard immunity and 3 jabs per day to keep immune response up.
I talked about this before too, and put it into context. Please read it and understand it. You think this is some sort of gotcha because you don't understand how it works.



The goalposts move, not arbitrarily, but due to the delta variant. It's math.

For herd immunity to be achieved, a virus' reproductive number has to be reduced to below one.

It's calculated by taking the virus' R0 reproduction number, and multiplying that by [1 - (vaccination rate x vaccine efficacy)]

Original COVID19 had a R0 of around 3, and our vaccines had an efficacy of greater than 90%. Using those numbers, we could reach herd immunity with about 75% of us getting the vaccine (which is around 80% of all eligible people since kids can't get vaccinated yet).

However, the delta variant has a higher R0, similar to chickenpox. Estimates say that it's around 5 to 9. Furthermore, vaccine efficacy against delta has fallen too, to around 40 to 80%. Using these new numbers, the only thing that can be adjusted is to increase the amount of people who are vaccinated.

Of course, that's just in the context of vaccinations. The effective reproduction number can be further reduced with countermeasures like masking, social distancing, and contact tracing. This is why until we get a new vaccine that has a high efficacy against transmission, we still need to throw as many proven mitigations against this virus as possible, within reason.
 

QSD

Member
According to Oklahoma's Department of Health:

One person a day dies from a gun. Good grief.
Yeah it was already in the back of my mind that this could take a dark turn, considering a significant % of firearm injuries are suicide attempts. It's over 2/3 though which is not what I was expecting.
I do think it's worth discussing whether it's good to be making a point that "ivermectin users are clogging up the hospitals" through stupidly self-harming when they could have just gotten vaccinated, when in fact so many of these gunshot injuries are suicide attempts, which is a more direct form of self-harm.

It's good to see though that there are relatively few accidents, so people are at least target practicing responsibly!
 
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