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FunkMiller
Member
Mutations occur naturally and randomly in diseases, leading to variants. Variants can evade existing vaccines.
This is the case with every disease and vaccine that has ever existed.
Disease eradication or suppression only comes about through constant and updated vaccine technology, leading to wide enough herd immunity.
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are contributing to the prolonging of the disease’s ability to spread.
These are stone cold facts that no amount of complaining or posturing will change.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
arkhamguy123
Member
But FunkMiller have you considered... his ""perspective""? I mean thats heavy stuff worth contemplating in the face of all that.
prinz_valium
Member
Yes that happens for some viruses and especially novel ones and it's where vaccines are not a very good therapy against and are not very effective.
There are other viruses like polio or measles with no new variants and highly effective and long lasting vaccines and therefor no need to develop and use new ones.
Now ask yourself what makes more sense to use.
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FunkMiller
Member
Both polio and measles require(d) more than one vaccine type. Both have naturally occurring variants. It’s because people consistently took those vaccines that those diseases are/were effectively dealt with. Both continue to exist in our world today, requiring updated vaccine programs.
It makes sense to take a vaccine for each variant of a disease that exists, if those variants demonstrate an ability to avoid vaccines not designed to tackle them.
Again, no amount of complaining or posturing changes these facts.
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Malakhov
Banned
Yep, folks like me who get tested 3 times a week is definitely part of the problem, especially since I don't visit any restaurants, theaters, group activities etc...
What can someone convinces himself to think he's better than others. Quite fascinating.
clem84
Gold Member
I had a feeling this was bogus.Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Its not about being better. It's about being smart. These variants will continue to pop up as time goes on. Our best defense against them is a vaccinated population. And that's not even mentioning the good that the vaccine does for you and those around you when it comes to helping prevent infection and helping lower the risk of severe symptoms.
Your 3 tests a week do nothing to protect you and others other than basically being just an alarm bell in case you do get sick. And depending on when that happens you could possibly infect others before you know you are infected.
Weekly tests are not a substitute for an actual vaccine. They are better than nothing, but not as good as just sucking it up and getting vaccinated.
Malakhov
Banned
I disagree, patients getting infected at work are from the vaccinated staff, they don't get tested.
When they give testing for everyone then I will consider it. For now it's the safest option for me and my kids, I rather get tested every two days and I have quick tests at home provided by the government for my kids.
We stay home most of the time, we don't go to any events, no theaters, no more restaurants.
If they provide me with free tests at work every second days even vaccinated, I will do it, until then this is the best solution
clem84
Gold Member
You left out the important bit, which is that it replicates 10 less in lungs, hence less severe outcomes
Their study also showed that the Omicron infection in the lung is significantly lower than the original SARS-CoV-2, which may be an indicator of lower disease severity.
HKUMed finds Omicron SARS-CoV-2 can infect faster and better than Delta in human bronchus but with less severe infection in lung
HKUMed provides the first information on how the novel Variant of Concern of SARS-CoV-2, the Omicron SARS-CoV-2, infect human respiratory tract.www.med.hku.hk
*complete speculation*
If this thing was really created in a lab with gain-of-function research, that would probably make it abnormally dangerous and maybe the more it will spread in the wild and mutate, the more normal it will become and, as a result, less dangerous. That would certainly be welcome.
Chaplain
Member
*complete speculation*
My hunch is that if it was released Omicron was also released to put an end to the pandemic.
edited
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I didn't realize what you were talking about until I realized you were talking to GA who is on ignore.
So I reveal his posts and what do I see? More blatant conspiracy nonsense.
prinz_valium
Member
Researchers Clarify Why Measles Doesn't Evolve to Escape Immunity - Mayo Clinic News Network
Unlike SARS-CoV-2, which mutated into new strains in its first year as a human disease-causing virus, measles virus does not mutate in a comparable way. A person who is fully vaccinated against the measles virus will usually be protected for life. Now, with a Cell Reports Medicine publication...
discoverysedge.mayo.edu
Polio was/is exactly 3 variants and they don't mutate as covid does currently.
Just like Hep A, B and C.
Totally different from Covid, with at least 5 major variants and dozens of minor ones in just 2 years.
It really hurts to read what you write.
Mistake
Member
All this arguing over vaccines, and covid is still here. We’re not going to vaccinate our way out of this, because it’s a global problem. Just look at NY vs Florida. Everyone laughed and then it flipped. No one knows what they’re doing and it’s obvious. Anyway, as omicron isn’t as deadly, hopefully it helps fizzle out the pandemic.
I have a few friends in government jobs, and they both told me everyone on covid leave has been fully vaccinated. It’s dumb.
I have a few friends in government jobs, and they both told me everyone on covid leave has been fully vaccinated. It’s dumb.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/UQKOMFCD3JN7NC7QUBAT3FPWUA.jpg)
Omicron more likely to reinfect than Delta, no milder -study
The risk of reinfection with the Omicron coronavirus variant is more than five times higher and it has shown no sign of being milder than Delta, a study showed, as cases soar across Europe and threaten year-end festivities.
www.reuters.com
Welp.
FunkMiller
Member
Yes, yes. I say all diseases have variants, and you argue against that position by saying polio has three variants.
It’s definitely my stuff that’s hard to read. It must be because you clearly haven’t or can’t.
Also… why are you even bringing up polio or measles in a discussion about respiratory disease? You want to chuck beri beri and dengue fever in while you’re at it?
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
If you are willing to wait a couple of thousand years for the few predominant Covid strains to be the only ones left be my guest.Researchers Clarify Why Measles Doesn't Evolve to Escape Immunity - Mayo Clinic News Network
Unlike SARS-CoV-2, which mutated into new strains in its first year as a human disease-causing virus, measles virus does not mutate in a comparable way. A person who is fully vaccinated against the measles virus will usually be protected for life. Now, with a Cell Reports Medicine publication...
Polio was/is exactly 3 variants and they don't mutate as covid does currently.
Just like Hep A, B and C.
Totally different from Covid, with at least 5 major variants and dozens of minor ones in just 2 years.
It really hurts to read what you write.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
Booster at least 80% effective against severe Omicron
Preliminary estimates by researchers suggest the top-up shot should help keep many people out of hospital.
www.bbc.com
Sure and in about 3 months a 4th booster , 3 boosters a year keeps the doctor away .. it’s kinda sadBooster at least 80% effective against severe Omicron
Preliminary estimates by researchers suggest the top-up shot should help keep many people out of hospital.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
NYC set a single day high in cases with over 21,000 on Thursday. I don’t know if that high is for 2021 or the entire pandemic. But NYC has hardcore mandates and still getting single day highs.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
I wish folks would read the alarmist headlines they post … all the study says is there is no current proof it is milder.. it doesn’t say it won’t find it to be milder in a few weeksOmicron more likely to reinfect than Delta, no milder -study
The risk of reinfection with the Omicron coronavirus variant is more than five times higher and it has shown no sign of being milder than Delta, a study showed, as cases soar across Europe and threaten year-end festivities.
Welp.
“"We find no evidence (for both risk of hospitalisation attendance and symptom status) of Omicron having different severity from Delta," the study said, although it added that data on hospitalisations remains very limited”
……
TOO EARLY?
But Dr Clive Dix, former Chair of the UK Vaccine Taskforce, said it was important not to overinterpret the data.
"The conclusions made are based on making assumptions about Omicron where we still don't have sufficient data," Dr Dix said.
prinz_valium
Member
That is exactly what I intend to do.
Tho it's more likely the variants predominant in a few years will be more common cold like. After all, it's still a corona virus.
Other people can of course take 7 or more vaccines if they prefer that option.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Because most of them are vaccinated, which makes it a much larger pool to draw from, statistically. Additionally, every one of them vaccinated makes it less likely that unvaccinated people like yourself will catch COVID. Traditionally, we set those exceptions aside for people with health problems whom we know the vaccine might be risky. But nowadays people like to be special.Clue, all recent eclosions have been from vaccinated personnel recently. I wonder why
Malakhov
Banned
Nope, they keep sending emails to remind vaccinated people to get tested if they have any symptoms because most don't
Ah, the feeling of false protection
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah most of us would like to get the pandemic over with, not stick out head in the sand for a thousand years!
ManaByte
Gold Member
Sports being cancelled/postponed.
ktla.com
Newsom is probably going to issue a new stay at home order for CA on Monday or Tuesday. Right before Christmas.
Rams game against Seahawks postponed to Tuesday after COVID outbreak
In wake of a coronavirus outbreak that has ravaged their roster, the Rams’ game against the Seattle Seahawks, which was scheduled for Sunday at SoFi Stadium, has been postponed until Tuesday at 4 p…
ktla.com
Newsom is probably going to issue a new stay at home order for CA on Monday or Tuesday. Right before Christmas.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This doesn't address my point at all.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Malakhov
Banned
It does, completely. That's always the same rebuttal from your part, it doesn't address this or that. Seriously it's getting tiresome.
The pool of vaccinated might be bigger, but they don't get tested, and some even don't when they have flu symptoms and they're the ones bringing it at work
Even 5-10% of non vaccinated staff were talking about thousands of people in my region alone, so thinking that this doesn't address your 'point' is absurd.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Because it doesn't. I'm talking about math, and you're talking about how it's unfair that they don't need to get tested and you do, while ignoring the reasoning behind why they don't need to get tested yet you do.
It's vaccine OR test. They fulfilled their part of the contract with the vaccine. Since you don't want to do that, you have to test. Those are your choices so live with them.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I though that the best defense was the immunity
What happened there?
I think eventually it will end because the governments - especially in Europe and some satellites are solving a tactical problem under the guise of the virus. Whether historically it will be beneficial or not, we will see.
Actually black death - despite killing a lot of people - was kinda beneficial for historical development as it led to effectively terminating serfdom for example (much earlier than any other region) and also led to Renaissance. But even with COVID we can see similar developments - for example faster digitization, more remote work and flexible working days, more organizations willing to hire people across the world, some of the companies realizing that 5 days of work is not necessary and so on.
There will be push for virtual worlds - like those metaverses and playing around with virtual cities (like Seol was trying to do). After all with these cancellations of concerts and so on, people will want entertainment and virtual worlds will help with that.
But that's how the viruses work no? They mutate into more contagious but less deadly. Just the way nature works - you want the host to survive.
I believe pandemic will eventually end. When around 80% is vaccinated in Europe - it will end.
It is interesting to theorize actually.
Let's say that the goal is to destroy the "old order"- old social order and old economy.
First the goal is to minimize the middle class -basically the people who own the property. People who rent houses, lease cars and - ideally - have (or will have) the basic income should be the citizens of new era. They own nothing - because let's be honest here that unless you won you basically cannot afford anything without leasing or mortgage - everything is provided by the government. China already has stuff like social scores, thus in new order people's value will be the loyalty to the ruling class - the better you follow the governmental order (vaccinate not vaccinate) the better your score is. And as you own nothing - you can lose your credit history or have your bank account locked and suddenly you become homeless with no rights. You will get some minimum support package from the government at best and that's it. Of course not every country will achieve that level - and not soon - like nobody is thinking that Iran or Turkey or Russia will suddenly become digital powerhouses where everything can be accessed via you ID2020 or whatever digital card we will have. Just like in the past renaissance was not everywhere.
Second goal is to destroy old economy. Which is kinda simple as we already see that - green energy, renewables, reusable stuff, destruction of the economy based on livestock (forgot the name), global corporations and conglomerates that even supersede the countries (kinda reminds me of Dutch Indian Company). Add to that cryptocurrencies and other things and you can see that transition already. Some mass events will also die out.
Whether it is a conspiracy or not, it doesn't matter. But it is fascinating and kinda exciting to be honest. We might even call it Technological Renaissance.
The irony is that people with masks, multiple shoots and those who protect themselves whatever means necessary are just as vulnerable as those who did nothing. And yes, the both groups need to do the tests in order to travel.
Anyway, I believe no matter what side you on - it is very interesting to observe the course of history. I mean even with Omicron the most affected countries are the ones that have the highest vaccination rate and specifically Europe (the strongest ones actually like Germany or UK). Like we literally has nothing in order african countries, not much in South America (if any), asia or even Russia. Basically the most vaccinated ones are affected the most.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
They also have one of the highest population densities in the world, and frequent international contact. There are a lot of variables that enter into the equation.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Have they started sending the patients to the nursing homes yet?
Yes, lots of change .. which is needed . The tech is available.I though that the best defense was the immunity
What happened there?
I think eventually it will end because the governments - especially in Europe and some satellites are solving a tactical problem under the guise of the virus. Whether historically it will be beneficial or not, we will see.
Actually black death - despite killing a lot of people - was kinda beneficial for historical development as it led to effectively terminating serfdom for example (much earlier than any other region) and also led to Renaissance. But even with COVID we can see similar developments - for example faster digitization, more remote work and flexible working days, more organizations willing to hire people across the world, some of the companies realizing that 5 days of work is not necessary and so on.
There will be push for virtual worlds - like those metaverses and playing around with virtual cities (like Seol was trying to do). After all with these cancellations of concerts and so on, people will want entertainment and virtual worlds will help with that.
But that's how the viruses work no? They mutate into more contagious but less deadly. Just the way nature works - you want the host to survive.
I believe pandemic will eventually end. When around 80% is vaccinated in Europe - it will end.
It is interesting to theorize actually.
Let's say that the goal is to destroy the "old order"- old social order and old economy.
First the goal is to minimize the middle class -basically the people who own the property. People who rent houses, lease cars and - ideally - have (or will have) the basic income should be the citizens of new era. They own nothing - because let's be honest here that unless you won you basically cannot afford anything without leasing or mortgage - everything is provided by the government. China already has stuff like social scores, thus in new order people's value will be the loyalty to the ruling class - the better you follow the governmental order (vaccinate not vaccinate) the better your score is. And as you own nothing - you can lose your credit history or have your bank account locked and suddenly you become homeless with no rights. You will get some minimum support package from the government at best and that's it. Of course not every country will achieve that level - and not soon - like nobody is thinking that Iran or Turkey or Russia will suddenly become digital powerhouses where everything can be accessed via you ID2020 or whatever digital card we will have. Just like in the past renaissance was not everywhere.
Second goal is to destroy old economy. Which is kinda simple as we already see that - green energy, renewables, reusable stuff, economy based on livestock (forgot the name), global corporations and conglomerates that even supersede the countries (kinda reminds me of Dutch Indian Company). Add to that cryptocurrencies and other things and you can see that transition already. Some mass events will also die out.
Whether it is a conspiracy or not, it doesn't matter. But it is fascinating and kinda exciting to be honest. We might even call it Technological Renaissance.
The irony is that people with masks, multiple shoots and those who protect themselves whatever means necessary are just as vulnerable as those who did nothing. And yes, the both groups need to do the tests in order to travel.
Anyway, I believe no matter what side you on - it is very interesting to observe the course of history. I mean even with Omicron the most affected countries are the ones that have the highest vaccination rate and specifically Europe (the strongest ones actually like Germany or UK). Like we literally has nothing in order african countries, not much in South America (if any), asia or even Russia. Basically the most vaccinated ones are affected the most.
Malakhov
Banned
You're exactly doing what you accuse of others of doing. Your reply doesn't make any sense.
Nowhere did I mention it was unfair to get tested. If you read what I said, I said I will consider getting the vaccine if they test the vaccinated as well. I WANT to get tested.
What you just wrote is completely incoherent to what I have said
Ironic
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Yes, but if that is a record high for the whole pandemic with mandates, and it’s higher than it was in 2020 without mandates and without vaccines, that tells me that the mandates aren’t working very well in NYC.
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
That’s after they bolt the synagogues doors shut.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Then please try to understand it better because you still haven't addressed it.
You are complaining that they don't need to get tested while you do. It is baked into your argument. Your refusal to get vaccinated based on a misunderstanding of risk assessment is irrelevant to what is actually necessary to maintain health and wellness.
So keep getting tested and quit complaining about the vaccinated people.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Too many variables have changed between 2020 and now for you to reach that conclusion with such confidence. How have you ruled out the possibility that cases would be even higher if not for the mandates?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
That is exactly why I posted it. If you look at the post I responded to they spoke as if Omicron being less dangerous was a proven fact.
It's not.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
It is gonna be fascinating. It might really push Europe forward in technological advances (whether it will help with being more inventive is a separate matter though).
They extended that annoying 17:00 limit.
We can safely say that organizations like CDC will held much more authority than before. Wasn't there WHO session where they proposed a pandemic treaty? Would be very important for historical development - after four previous systems - Westphalian sovereignty, Concept of Europe, Yalta-Postdman conference - we will get a new one. Rare event!
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Malakhov
Banned
You know, trying to make up some things other said to try to validate your invalid points isn't doing you any favors.
It seems to be the same pattern with you, all of the time. And I'm quite getting sick of it.
I'm not the one to announce anything but you can figure what I'm doing with you. Good luck
Sending you love, you need a lot of it
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
No, I'm sure they would be higher. Probably not much, but a little higher. But everything comes down to a cost benefit analysis. If you're going to have mandates, they need to be working well. "We are breaking new records for COVID cases, but those cases would be higher if not for the mandates" isn't a ringing endorsement for the effectiveness of their mandates.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You didn't understand what the reasoning is behind vaccinated people not having to test, as if they are the drivers of this pandemic while you in all of your personal anecdotal evidence are completely harmless.You know, trying to make up some things other said to try to validate your invalid points isn't doing you any favors.
It seems to be the same pattern with you, all of the time. And I'm quite getting sick of it.
I'm not the one to announce anything but you can figure what I'm doing with you. Good luck
Sending you love, you need a lot of it
I explained to you how that is flawed reasoning. If you're getting sick of facts and truth and reality and hard choices for the betterment of society, then that's not my problem. It's the problem of everyone else who comes into contact with you.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I assume so too. It seems likely.
We don't know enough to reliably estimate how much.
It's not a ringing endorsement, but it's better than the alternative, which unfortunately is all we can do at the moment. Do you have an alternative that works better?
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I don’t agree that it’s better than the alternative. If you’re going to bar people from their freedoms then the mandates need to work incredibly well or it isn’t worth it. When you tell people they can’t do x, y, and z because if these mandates, and you go on to set record highs in cases, it’s a terrible look.
I think if you’re already setting record highs, then the mandates should be pulled. Federally. Let businesses do their own thing. Most will mandate masks at the very least.
Just my opinion that cases won’t go up very much if most businesses mandate masks and some mandate vaccines on their own, but at least everyone will have the ability or chance anyway, to do things they weren’t able to do during the mandates. Best solution in a world of imperfect ones IMO.
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