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[QSD]

tangentially related but goes to my earlier point that pharmaceutical companies and medical professionals have seriously damaged the trust that was given them

(I struggled a bit to find an english-language version of this article that isn't behind a paywall, so this will have to do)


https://www.france24.com/en/america...each-26-billion-settlement-over-opioid-crisis

“While the companies strongly dispute the allegations made in these lawsuits, they believe the proposed settlement agreement and settlement process it establishes... are important steps toward achieving broad resolution of governmental opioid claims and delivering meaningful relief to communities across the United States,” the companies said.

so despite all the damage done, the companies, among which is Johnsen & Johnson which is currently producing vaccines, claim they did nothing wrong
Shai-Tan : why place all this trust in what they have to say or the data they produce, when they are so clearly dishonest and unapologetic about destroying so many lives?

 

[TheDreadBaron]

tangentially related but goes to my earlier point that pharmaceutical companies and medical professionals have seriously damaged the trust that was given them

(I struggled a bit to find an english-language version of this article that isn't behind a paywall, so this will have to do)


https://www.france24.com/en/america...each-26-billion-settlement-over-opioid-crisis



so despite all the damage done, the companies, among which is Johnsen & Johnson which is currently producing vaccines, claim they did nothing wrong
Shai-Tan : why place all this trust in what they have to say or the data they produce, when they are so clearly dishonest and unapologetic about destroying so many lives?

I think it’s an interesting connection. I’ve personally known several young people that have had their lives ruined or lost to opioids. My old roommate started by dipping into his mom’s medicine cabinet.

By contrast, I personally know only one person that has died from covid and he was a very old relative.

Obviously that’s just my personal experience, but it’s true my trust in the medical establishment is totally shot. All I have to go off is my personal experience and it isn’t lining up with the mainstream scarerrative.

 

[poppabk]

Here's an article tweeted out by David Fuller (of Rebel Wisdom) that might give you pause:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/0...esearch-is-fraudulent-until-proved-otherwise/

Drugs, vaccines, medical devices etc don't rely on peer review. And if you think the FDA is toothless then you are sorely mistaken.

 

[MisterFalcon]

I wonder what they tell the vaccinated people who die anyway? "You can rest easy knowing you died of natural causes and not COVID"?

Meanwhile, the 7-day average of daily deaths in Alabama is at 7 as of yesterday. It was 24 on July 20, 2020.

Alabama COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Alabama COVID-19 Coronavirus update by county with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, current active cases, recoveries, historical data, trends, projections, and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

With the daily hospitalizations going from 263 per day to 602 per day in 10 days this will not stay so low for long.

https://alpublichealth.maps.arcgis....x.html?appid=d84846411471404c83313bfe7ab2a367
(tab 9 under Data And Surveillance)

 

[BouncyFrag]

 

[FunkMiller]

Interesting how you constantly accuse people of being uneducated and believing whatever they read from random internet sources with heavy political biases and then post a number that was clearly bullshit. It's almost like you're on the other furthest end of the political spectrum

What number did I post that’s bullshit?

 

[FunkMiller]

That’s insane. Completely insane.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

That’s insane. Completely insane.

I know we Europeans get a lot of shit here from the US folks regarding restrictions, vaccinations, etc. - I understand given the cultural context that people look at things differently.

Australia though? WTF? Will there be anything to come back to after this is over?

 

[QSD]

Drugs, vaccines, medical devices etc don't rely on peer review. And if you think the FDA is toothless then you are sorely mistaken.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/how-fda-failures-contributed-opioid-crisis/2020-08

the response of the FDA to previous failures in vetting medications is largely similar to pharmaceutical companies, defend and deny, pointing to the fact that nothing was learned or changed in the years since.

Much of the responsibility for the opioid crisis rests with the pharmaceutical industry’s promotion of aggressive opioid prescribing. Indeed, in a first-of-its-kind trial against opioid manufacturers, a state court in Oklahoma last year found that the “exponentially increasing rates of addiction,” “overdose deaths,” and babies born exposed to opioids were caused by “false, misleading, and dangerous marketing campaigns” for opioid medications.8 But the fact that opioid manufacturers disseminated false claims regarding the risks and benefits of opioids for the past 25 years points to a dereliction of duty by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA)—the federal agency charged with regulating pharmaceutical companies.

Despite this mounting criticism, FDA policies for approving and labeling opioids remain largely unchanged. The FDA has not undertaken a root cause analysis of its regulatory errors that contributed to this public health catastrophe, let alone instituted any major reforms.11 To the contrary, the agency has adopted a defensive posture and sought to shift blame. For example, in response to a critical letter from Senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, the FDA’s top official at the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research since 1994 offered a blanket defense of the FDA’s handling of opioids, claiming that the agency has properly enforced the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.12

 

[FunkMiller]

I know we Europeans get a lot of shit here from the US folks regarding restrictions, vaccinations, etc. - I understand given the cultural context that people look at things differently.

Australia though? WTF? Will there be anything to come back to after this is over?

I'm fucking embarrassed to be half Aussie. Friends keep asking me what the hell is going on. The UK has always looked at Australia as being some kind of laid back paradise, but all this shit is showing my British friends and family just how fucking idiotic Australians can be - especially the shithouse government. The anti-vax stuff coming out on social media is almost as bad as you get in the states - which is where it's been imported from. The Aussie media are the absolute fucking worst. Scott Morrison makes Boris Johnson look like a decent PM... that's how bad he is. Utter clusterfuck.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Seems that 60% of the UK hospitalizations have had 2 jabs .. but are they after 2 weeks of the second jab , if so that’s a bad sign .. and that’s before opening up..

UK is also a country where like 85% of adults are vaccinated so to some extent this not unusual. Importantly, hospitalizations are still quite low.

Also, at this point you know, we have delta vaccines developed we just need to figure out how we're gonna get them through all the approval red tape, but we will if things get bad.

 

[FunkMiller]

Seems that 60% of the UK hospitalizations have had 2 jabs .. but are they after 2 weeks of the second jab , if so that’s a bad sign .. and that’s before opening up..

Vallance got the numbers wrong:




60% Covid in hospital have had no vaccine. He didn’t give numbers about how many fully vaccinated.

Edit: only 15% fully vaccinated.

 

[DeepBreath87]

With the daily hospitalizations going from 263 per day to 602 per day in 10 days this will not stay so low for long.

https://alpublichealth.maps.arcgis....x.html?appid=d84846411471404c83313bfe7ab2a367
(tab 9 under Data And Surveillance)

Just so we keep things in perspective, Alabama peaked with a 7 day average of 4500 cases a day testing positive back in January. Less than a month later, their reported deaths peaked at a hair under 150 a day.

Right now they are averaging about 700 cases a day. That’s 6.5x less. In a month, they have gone from 150 cases a day to 700. So a bit more than 4x. So if they’re trajectory remains unchanged over the next month, they will still be below their peak from the winter in terms of cases.

Now let’s look at deaths. Deaths lag cases. In the winter, Alabama’s peak in deaths trailed its cases by almost exactly a month. Cases peaked on Jan 4. Deaths peaked on Jan 29. This spike in cases began almost exactly a month ago and they’ve quadrupled their cases in that time. Let’s say they quadruple their deaths as well. Well, their deaths are averaging 4 per day. 4. So let’s say that follows cases. Actually, let’s say it exceeds the rate of increase. You’re looking at something like 20 deaths a day.

There are 5 million people in Alabama.

 

[ManaByte]

I wonder if in the US if the government said "Ok, we'll lockdown like you want, but no more $600 a week unemployment" how fast the people on social media will stop screaming about lockdowns for the Delta.

 

[Rock And Roll]

What number did I post that’s bullshit?

88% of the entire U.K population above the age of 18 have had their first jab. The young people are quite happily getting vaccinated.

How short/selective is your memory?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

How short/selective is your memory?

He's right about that figure. It's just that it gives the wrong impression as if "young people" have the same uptake as when you look at the 18+ population in its entirety.

 

[Slaylock]

 

[Rock And Roll]

He's right about that figure. It's just that it gives the wrong impression as if "young people" have the same uptake as when you look at the 18+ population in its entirety.

My mistake. FunkMiller I misunderstood your post and apologize.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Crazy land.

 

[Raven117]

So, this is insane.

 

[DeepBreath87]

So, this is insane.

This is why we need people to push back on restrictions. People think this is crazy. What is crazy is thinking this kind of thing wouldn’t be happening in other places without strong voices arguing against restrictions. Yes, there is a give and take. But the government needs to know that there is a limit to which the population will be willing to be subjected to this kind of stuff.

So yes, bitching about masks and whatnot might seem annoying or pedantic to some. But the people doing that kind of thing do play a role in keeping other governments from going further than they already have. What I find insane is that Australians are willing to enforce this absolute tyranny on each other.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[TheDreadBaron]

This is why we need people to push back on restrictions. People think this is crazy. What is crazy is thinking this kind of thing wouldn’t be happening in other places without strong voices arguing against restrictions. Yes, there is a give and take. But the government needs to know that there is a limit to which the population will be willing to be subjected to this kind of stuff.

So yes, bitching about masks and whatnot might seem annoying or pedantic to some. But the people doing that kind of thing do play a role in keeping other governments from going further than they already have. What I find insane is that Australians are willing to enforce this absolute tyranny on each other.

This is the best thing I’ve read today, granted I just got up.

This is what disturbs me, it’s not just the increasing tyranny of an unaccountable government, it’s your friends and family and neighbors enforcing it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This same rotten two-faced scumbag ruled out vaccine passports just 5 months ago at a time when daily deaths in the UK were over 1,000.

Covid: Minister rules out vaccine passports in UK

The vaccine minister says people should ask their GP if they need proof of vaccination to go abroad.

www.bbc.com

Now, when deaths are not even 1/10th of what they were and it's becoming clear that the AstraZeneca vaccine does not really prevent spread of Delta very well, they want to implement it. You can never trust any government about this stuff. They will grab more power and control over your life whenever they think they have an opportunity.

I hope citizens of the UK look forward to seeing their Safety Pass get expanded to include booster shots, influenza shots, other medical history, criminal records, social media posts... It's coming. There is no reason why they would stop if people let them get away with this.

 

[DeepBreath87]

This same rotten two-faced scumbag ruled out vaccine passports just 5 months ago at a time when daily deaths in the UK were over 1,000.

Covid: Minister rules out vaccine passports in UK

The vaccine minister says people should ask their GP if they need proof of vaccination to go abroad.

www.bbc.com

Now, when deaths are not even 1/10th of what they were and it's becoming clear that the AstraZeneca vaccine does not really prevent spread of Delta very well, they want to implement it. You can never trust any government about this stuff. They will grab more power and control over your life whenever they think they have an opportunity.

I hope citizens of the UK look forward to seeing their Safety Pass get expanded to include booster shots, influenza shots, other medical history, criminal records, social media posts... It's coming. There is no reason why they would stop if people let them get away with this.

And the same clowns who say you’re being ridiculous now will cheer for all the same stuff they said would never happen when it comes.

 

[vpance]

This same rotten two-faced scumbag ruled out vaccine passports just 5 months ago at a time when daily deaths in the UK were over 1,000.

Covid: Minister rules out vaccine passports in UK

The vaccine minister says people should ask their GP if they need proof of vaccination to go abroad.

www.bbc.com

Now, when deaths are not even 1/10th of what they were and it's becoming clear that the AstraZeneca vaccine does not really prevent spread of Delta very well, they want to implement it. You can never trust any government about this stuff. They will grab more power and control over your life whenever they think they have an opportunity.

I hope citizens of the UK look forward to seeing their Safety Pass get expanded to include booster shots, influenza shots, other medical history, criminal records, social media posts... It's coming. There is no reason why they would stop if people let them get away with this.

What's even the official reasoning behind this? Are they just using the Delta hype to make people think things are worse now than before, or is it just preemptive for the inevitable Fall/Winter bump?

And when we do get the F/W bump, will they continue to add more to the new draconian measures pile?

 

[Chaplain]

Here is here is the video since it was taken down:

 

[FunkMiller]

My mistake. FunkMiller I misunderstood your post and apologize.

No worries dude

 

[QSD]

No worries dude

See, that's the Australia we all love (and recognize)

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Who else is in California? It's hilarious how they are waiting until September to send out those $600 checks.

I mean, those checks are a can of works in and of themselves, but the fact that they're, more or less, just sitting on them until recall season, when it's supposed to be emergency relief, is too comical to even be real.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Massachusetts appears to be tracking breakthrough cases more diligently than other states and the CDC.

I'm still trying to track down the original source data for this, but according to the article, as of July 14th there were 4,450 confirmed breakthrough cases, 303 hospitalizations (6.8%) and 79 deaths (1.78%).

New Data Sheds Light On COVID-19 Cases Among The Vaccinated In Mass.

Public health officials have tracked 4,450 "breakthrough" cases of COVID-19 among Massachusetts residents fully vaccinated against the disease, representing about one-tenth of 1% of the roughly 4.2 million people immunized.

www.wbur.org

According to Johns Hopkins, the US's overall case fatality ratio for COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic is 1.8%.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Massachusetts appears to be tracking breakthrough cases more diligently than other states and the CDC.

I'm still trying to track down the original source data for this, but according to the article, as of July 14th there were 4,450 confirmed breakthrough cases, 303 hospitalizations (6.8%) and 79 deaths (1.78%).

New Data Sheds Light On COVID-19 Cases Among The Vaccinated In Mass.

Public health officials have tracked 4,450 "breakthrough" cases of COVID-19 among Massachusetts residents fully vaccinated against the disease, representing about one-tenth of 1% of the roughly 4.2 million people immunized.

www.wbur.org

According to Johns Hopkins, the US's overall case fatality ratio for COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic is 1.8%.

I wonder how many of those breakthrough cases are the Delta variant and how many are just regular Covid. Still the overall numbers are impressive. The vaccines are doing work even if they aren't completely full proof.

 

[Jaysen]

DeSantis urges public to get vaccinated: These shots are ‘saving lives’

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is urging Floridians to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, saying that the shots are “saving lives.”

thehill.com

Also NFL cracking down on teams who put scheduled games at risk due to COVID outbreaks. The team that causes it will forfeit and neither team will get paid. Eat shit, Beasley.

 

[Nobody_Important]

NFL not messing around. Love it.

 

[Singular7]

I can't believe this is still going on!

What is up with AU and all common wealth countries? Full blown authoritarianism for a non-issue.

Creepy stuff.

Good luck mankind!

Perpetual global synchronized medical tyranny is the new hot thing I guess.

3 years ago "I don't trust big pharma and Trump"

Today "inject me NOW big pharma, with Trump's rushed concoction, for a virus with a 99.9% survival rate"

 

[QSD]

I can't believe this is still going on!

What is up with AU and all common wealth countries? Full blown authoritarianism for a non-issue.

Creepy stuff.

Good luck mankind!

Perpetual global synchronized medical tyranny is the new hot thing I guess.

3 years ago "I don't trust big pharma and Trump"

Today "inject me NOW big pharma, with Trump's rushed concoction"

The bizarrely deferential attitude people have towards pharmaceutical companies all of the sudden is what gets me too in this thread

 

[Singular7]

The bizarrely deferential attitude people have towards pharmaceutical companies all of the sudden is what gets me too in this thread

Only one explanation: mind control from too much corporate media, and the vast majority just parroting, or "feeling bad" questioning a narrative nobody else seems to question.

Meanwhile, everybody is feeling skittish inside, and they want to trip the breaker and question the narrative. But they know its a scary world if you start thinking for yourself.

So it just becomes virtue signaling and living in a cult-ure of denial.

This is one of those situations where a comp. sci degree and a bit of autism helps you see through the nonsense

 

[QSD]

Only one explanation: mind control from too much corporate media, and the vast majority just parroting, or "feeling bad" questioning a narrative nobody else seems to question.

Meanwhile, everybody is feeling skittish inside, and they want to trip the breaker and question the narrative. But they know its a scary world if you start thinking for yourself.

So it just becomes virtue signaling and living in a cult-ure of denial.

Yeah, I sort of agree, most of what I see is just confirmation bias. Most people want the pandemic to be over, so they want the vaccines to work and be safe, and thus they want to trust the pharmaceutical companies, which blinds them to the dubious reputation these companies deservedly have. Most of the rest is just badmouthing of people who say otherwise, disguised as this rationalist, pro-science, anti misinformation charade.

I bet most "pharma believers" can still feel the cognitive dissonance though (so I get what you're saying with the 'feeling skittish' bit)

This is one of those situations where a comp. sci degree and a bit of autism helps you see through the nonsense

Guilty on the second charge! First charge is a social psychology degree, which also has some built-in redpilling

 

[ManaByte]

 

[DeepBreath87]

This may be very true. But they sold people on the idea that these vaccines were 95% effective at preventing symptomatic disease. It’s very similar to the masks debate. Don’t oversell with this stuff. Level with people. Tell them this removes almost entirely the possibility of death and nearly guarantees you won’t have to go to the hospital. Leave it at that. I feel like they oversold these a bit.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Dr_Salt]

Just to lay out some actual numbers to help the conversation...

- Out of approximately 127,000,000 people in the United States under the age of 30, there have been fewer than 3,000 deaths with COVID since January 1st, 2020 to July 7th, 2021.
- Out of approximately 75,000,000 people in the United States 60 years of age or older, there have been more than 500,000 deaths with COVID since January 1st, 2020 to July 7th, 2021.

So while one group has seen 0.66666667% of its population die with COVID, the other has seen 0.00236220%. Put a different way, people aged 60 years or older are dying with COVID at over 282 times the rate of those under the age of 30, and obviously that increases with age.

Can you do this but with serious side effects? I am honestly interested in those numbers.

 

[Singular7]

To not be a conspiracy theorist in 2021? :_)

(or frankly, after reading ANY history book)

The real conspiracy theorists are the "this is fine, I trust <current leaders> and <official source of the time>" people for believing the comical idea that "they want what's best for us".

The real irony of it all? The SJW anti-hero types with nose rings are telling me to just trust Big Pharma.

LOL!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This Fall is going to be some crazy shit if this keeps up elsewhere...

Israel says Pfizer vaccine efficacy in preventing infection drops to 39%

Health Ministry report shows vaccine's efficacy is also down when it comes to preventing serious illness, 91%, and hospitalizations, 88%; recently 5,770 fully vaccinated people were diagnosed with COVID, 495 were hospitalized, 123 died

www.ynetnews.com

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Can you do this but with serious side effects? I am honestly interested in those numbers.

I wish I could, but I don't know what reliable data there is on side effects. People basically dismiss VAERS and Europe's equivalent out of hand as if it's been hijacked by trolls or something.

The latest government report out of Japan, which is probably pretty reliable, has the following data for their vaccine program from February 17th through July 11th. These are based on reports from doctors/vaccine administers and are not meant to be all-inclusive. Furthermore, they warn that sometimes a single patient may have multiple symptoms that are reported separately and look like multiple unique cases when they are not necessarily.

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10601000/000809311.pdf

58,439,259 Pfizer shots administered:
Of which there were 17,877 reported side effects (0.03059074%)
Of which 2,813 were considered "serious side effects" (0.00481354%)
Of which, 553 ended in death (0.00094628%)

1,818,033 Moderna shots administered:
Of which there were 404 reported side effects (0.02222182%)
Of which 46 were considered "serious side effects" (0.00253021%)
Of which, 3 ended in death (0.00016501%)

One strange thing about the data is that side effects seem to be reported in women far more than men (14,015 and 1,962 serious vs. 3,824 and 844 serious), although deaths are largely the same (273 vs. 280).

 

[Cyberpunkd]

This Fall is going to be some crazy shit if this keeps up elsewhere...

Israel says Pfizer vaccine efficacy in preventing infection drops to 39%

Health Ministry report shows vaccine's efficacy is also down when it comes to preventing serious illness, 91%, and hospitalizations, 88%; recently 5,770 fully vaccinated people were diagnosed with COVID, 495 were hospitalized, 123 died

www.ynetnews.com

I love when the snapshot of the news is missing all the important info and just tries to scare you. Adding some numbers here:

5 700 000 Israelis got first dose
5 200 000 got both

5 770 tested positive for Covid with 1 152 914 tests conducted = positivity rate of 0.5%

Out of all positives 495 people were hospitalised = hospitalisation rate of 8.57%,

I can go on but both the hospitalisation rate and the ICU rate (75% of hospitalisations, wut) sound like BS and at a rate much higher than almost everywhere in the word before, and that given the vaccine.

Someone really messed with the data.

 

[Flash Junkins]

Get a vaccine that now most certainly is proven to cause massive side effects in some people and still get Covid.

Stupid people win stupid prizes.

This disease sucks and our response is even worse. Worst generation to put this on. We suck.

 

[thefool]

This Fall is going to be some crazy shit if this keeps up elsewhere...

Israel says Pfizer vaccine efficacy in preventing infection drops to 39%

Health Ministry report shows vaccine's efficacy is also down when it comes to preventing serious illness, 91%, and hospitalizations, 88%; recently 5,770 fully vaccinated people were diagnosed with COVID, 495 were hospitalized, 123 died

www.ynetnews.com

Most likely it's 0% (infection-prevention). They don't have control groups to even make these type of assessments outside of trying to adjust to populations, which is not how random clinical trials work.

What would be extremely interestingly to assess is how individuals who have been infected compare with vaccinated ones, but it's almost like big pharma doesn't want to study that.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It’s official: news broke today in my country, there will be a booster later this year and then in 2022 and 2023 at the very least.