CPU Wii U just as powerful as PS3, X360, GPU 1,5 times stronger

Linkhero1 said:
Honestly, I don't think he has a choice. NCL is here to blame. I do believe Reggie has some say, but Iwata probably disagrees with his strategy and Reggie ends up defaulting to Iwata's decisions. I don't think Reggie is dumb enough to alienate a group of gamers like this.
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I also believe that iwata may simply want to give some companies more time to get things together. EA, for example, will apparently collaborate with Nintendo on some online features, and the Nintendo teams that are working on more graphically impressive games may desire more time so that they can proof how capable the system can be. Short-term wise, it sucks for us, but it may be all forgiving if Nintendo can pull it off.
 
Linkhero1 said:
Everyone is worried because of the lack of third party showing at E3. It's pretty obvious Nintendo will have games to reveal later.
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Honestly Nintendo just cannot win over third-parties...as long as everyone still believes Nintendo consoles are made to just sell Nintendo software.

All Nintendo can do is offer to publish some games here or there...

I just don't see developers taking a chance with Nintendo...I think they'd rather chance waiting for the new sony and MS consoles.
 
F#A#Oo said:
Honestly Nintendo just cannot win over third-parties...as long as everyone still believes Nintendo consoles are made to just sell Nintendo software.

All Nintendo can do is offer to publish some games here or there...

I just don't see developers taking a chance with Nintendo...I think they'd rather chance waiting for the new sony and MS consoles.
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Basically agree. I think the realistic best case scenario for Wii U 3rd party support is getting non gimped versions of the big, mainstream stuff (CoD, Madden, FIFA, etc.), while getting good to very good Japanese 3rd party support. I'll be very disappointed if Japanese 3rd parties are not on board with Wii U.
 
ShinUltramanJ said:
If E3 showed me anything it's that Sony and Microsoft already have their teams working on the PS4/720. You can bet kids will have them under their trees come Christmas 2013.
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Rich kids, maybe. If those rumored specs are true, we're probably looking at $400-$600 consoles again.

That said, I have lost hope for Wii U. Its going to be a Wii repeat with respect to third party games.
Although on the other hand, most third party games are going to be boring cinematic type affairs "next gen" anyway.

As long as it can run Dead Rising 4 I won't mind. I'm not buying MS and Sony's systems next gen.
 
bgassassin said:
Nice post Thraktor.
I do agree here. Like that rumor saying Nintendo was upset about the power comments. Do something about it then.
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What was this bit about? Did something come from Nintendo after E3? If they were upset about power comments, they should have done something about it at the press conference. They really obviously don't think it's important, so if the machine isn't that powerful, they need to just man up and move forward with what it is and stop trying to defend it.
 
Instro said:
Well that spec sheet from a few days ago listed compute shaders which is a feature of shader model 5 and that class of GPUs... It started as a 2009 core probably because that's what was available at the time when design began, I can't imagine they spent 2 years on minor changes.
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It not a 2009., it was out early 2008. There was a story that they got a steal of a deal on these gpu.

That spe sheet is not true. Its just rumors...
 
nordique said:
...
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I agree that Reggie is an intelligent and capable businessman, marketer and COO. The launch lineup is certainly a very solid one, and although it's really NCL's decision, I'm sure he'll do a great job selling games like NSMBU and Nintendoland and soforth, as he's shown himself capable of before. The problem is when it comes to targeting "core" gamers. Although he's got games like Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Madden, etc., coming out, anyone with access to NPD data could have immediately identified these franchises as ones to secure. Just having these on the roster isn't enough to win over that new audience, though, you have to convince them to switch from their current platform, or to choose Wii U over the alternatives.

To really set the Wii U up as a serious contender for "core" gamers, it'll need a number of big-budget exclusive franchises targeting them early in the system's life. We haven't been given any indication that there are any (and even though one's probably coming from Retro, we don't even know that for sure). This doesn't just impact on gamers, it impacts on developers too. If they see Nintendo unveil their new console without any significant push to "core" gamers, there's a good chance they're going to drop any "core" projects they had planned for the console on the assumption that the audience just won't be there. I wrote a long-winded post a while back about the importance of Nintendo shifting into an equilibrium where the console is taken seriously as a platform for "core" games, but I haven't gotten any indication that they're actually making that shift, and at the moment I don't see what's going to draw "core" gamers or developers to the system.

There's also the matter of actually marketing these games, and marketing the system to the people who play these games. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have enormous faith in Reggie's ability to do either.
 
Horse Armour said:
No it didn't, most people agreed it looked worse than the 360/PS3 versions.
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Bayonetta on PS3.

Therefore: X360>>>>>PS3>>>>PS2

Don't you realize how incredibly stupid what you're saying is, c'mon are you people serious or just trolling?
Also, I see it didn't occur to you that these games aren't realising this week.
 
Buddha Beam said:
Rich kids, maybe. If those rumored specs are true, we're probably looking at $400-$600 consoles again.

That said, I have lost hope for Wii U. Its going to be a Wii repeat with respect to third party games.
Although on the other hand, most third party games are going to be boring cinematic type affairs "next gen" anyway.

As long as it can run Dead Rising 4 I won't mind. I'm not buying MS and Sony's systems next gen.
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I don't think we'll see a console at $600 again considering the economy still hasn't fully recovered and Sony took a hard hit early on at that price point. Lesson learned.

The way I see it, a lot of third party support is going to depend on the power disparity again between the big three.

Although I doubt it, if the gap is large enough that it requires a different team to develop a version with massively scaled down art assets, then we may see a wiipeat.
 
Dash Kappei said:
Bayonetta on PS3.

Therefore: X360>>>>>PS3>>>>PS2

Don't you realize how incredibly stupid what you're saying is, c'mon are you people serious or just trolling?
Also, I see it didn't occur to you that these games aren't realising this week.
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I was reading through the thread pretty much thinking the same thing. Based on that logic my i7/dual 580 PC is weaker than the PS360 based on shitty Ubi/Rockstar ports :/

I swear that the average GAFer has selective amnesia. Does no one else remember what PS2/Xbox ports looked like on the 360? Xbox 1.5 anyone?
 
Thraktor said:
I agree that Reggie is an intelligent and capable businessman, marketer and COO. The launch lineup is certainly a very solid one, and although it's really NCL's decision, I'm sure he'll do a great job selling games like NSMBU and Nintendoland and soforth, as he's shown himself capable of before. The problem is when it comes to targeting "core" gamers. Although he's got games like Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Madden, etc., coming out, anyone with access to NPD data could have immediately identified these franchises as ones to secure. Just having these on the roster isn't enough to win over that new audience, though, you have to convince them to switch from their current platform, or to choose Wii U over the alternatives.

To really set the Wii U up as a serious contender for "core" gamers, it'll need a number of big-budget exclusive franchises targeting them early in the system's life. We haven't been given any indication that there are any (and even though one's probably coming from Retro, we don't even know that for sure). This doesn't just impact on gamers, it impacts on developers too. If they see Nintendo unveil their new console without any significant push to "core" gamers, there's a good chance they're going to drop any "core" projects they had planned for the console on the assumption that the audience just won't be there. I wrote a long-winded post a while back about the importance of Nintendo shifting into an equilibrium where the console is taken seriously as a platform for "core" games, but I haven't gotten any indication that they're actually making that shift, and at the moment I don't see what's going to draw "core" gamers or developers to the system.

There's also the matter of actually marketing these games, and marketing the system to the people who play these games. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have enormous faith in Reggie's ability to do either.
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Depends on what you consider a core game.

Retro is probably working on one that will appeal to western audiences, and it's sure to be big budget and exclusive. Zelda is still a big time game with core gamers that will be exclusive.

i tend to think of Monolith as one such team too, especially given the hints at the focus of their next game competing with the Elder Scrolls series.

I don't think he can get or needs 3rd party exlusives of the caliber you're describing, at least not from America. Sony and MS don't get those either.

They ARE however, likely to have numerous hardcore exclusives that are high budget out of Japan, including hte biggest one of them all, Dragon Quest.


i think if they are in a position to get day 1 multiplats this gen and long enough into the PS4/720 years they will be fine. Naturally then, the most important factor may be strong Call of Duty, Madden, Assasins Creed and Fifa sales during launch as much as anything else. If these sell well, and porting is as easy as it seems to be then Nintendo needs to provide no other reason beyond hoping publishers simply have common sense. The console will have a large audience, and there are no Wiieqsue excuses about porting difficulties that are as salient this time around.

Nintendo's own properties, strong japanese 3rd party support and western multiplats makes for a very strong lineup, considering nintendo's own games are pretty much still the most lucrative and important exclusives in the Industry.

The Wii was still the biggest console around saleswise, they just need multiplats from Western 3rd parties to keep momentum going later in the consoles life. Nintendo's own huge games will drive tons of sales in the West as it is.
 
Daschysta said:
Depends on what you consider a core game.

Retro is probably working on one that will appeal to western audiences, and it's sure to be big budget and exclusive. Zelda is still a big time game with core gamers that will be exclusive.

i tend to think of Monolith as one such team too, especially given the hints at the focus of their next game competing with the Elder Scrolls series.

I don't think he can get or needs 3rd party exlusives of the caliber you're describing, at least not from America. Sony and MS don't get those either.

They ARE however, likely to have numerous hardcore exclusives that are high budget out of Japan, including hte biggest one of them all, Dragon Quest.


i think if they are in a position to get day 1 multiplats this gen and long enough into the PS4/720 years they will be fine.

Nintendo's own properties, strong japanese 3rd party support and western multiplats makes for a very strong lineup, considering nintendo's own games are pretty much still the most lucrative and important exclusives in the Industry.

The Wii was still the biggest console around saleswise, they just need multiplats from Western 3rd parties to keep momentum going later in the consoles life. Nintendo's own huge games will drive tons of sales in the West as it is.
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The reason that I put quotes around "core" is that I'm using the common usage, but I don't feel it's a particularly apt description. I'm basically describing people who play Call of Duty, Gears of War, Uncharted, or generally any game that would be called "mature" or "AAA", or any number of other bullshit euphemisms for "games where you go around killing people".

Personally I think people who have been playing Nintendo games since the NES are much more core than 15 year olds who play nothing but Call of Duty, but then I'm not in charge of these things.

Edit: I do think that the Wii U is going to be quite successful this gen. It won't be quite as successful as Wii among casuals, simply due to the lack of anything as iconic as Wii Sports, but it'll still do well amongst that audience. For "games where you go around killing people" gamers, it'll do better that the Wii (although that's not saying much) purely on the basis that porting to it will be an awful lot easier, but if they really want it to be the console this coming gen, like the PS2 was a generation ago, then they need to do a better job of targeting these kinds of gamers.
 
I honestly think Nintendo would be best off looking to fund / publish projects from smaller Western studios, than to chase the fickle publishers and end up getting burned.

Rare and Retro undeniably flourished under Nintendo, Silicon Knights (arguably?) did their best work under them, and I think growing second parties is more likely to yield success and new IP than securing 'the sure thing'.

The best sellers on every new console platform are never the same franchises as the previous one - Nintendos strength has always been 'getting in on the ground floor' of new gameplay experiences, your typical AAA publisher has always been about refining those experiences and throwing money at them.
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
I honestly think Nintendo would be best off looking to fund / publish projects from smaller Western studios, than to chase the fickle publishers and end up getting burned.

Rare and Retro undeniably flourished under Nintendo, Silicon Knights (arguably?) did their best work under them, and I think growing second parties is more likely to yield success and new IP than securing 'the sure thing'.

The best sellers on every new console platform are never the same franchises as the previous one - Nintendos strength has always been 'getting in on the ground floor' of new gameplay experiences, your typical AAA publisher has always been about refining those experiences and throwing money at them.
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I agree. Nintendo should have been looking for Western studios who can develop exclusive games for new (Nintendo-owned) franchises, to launch early in the Wii U's life, like MS did with Epic on the XBox 360. It's possible that they have, but we haven't been given any indication of it so far.
 
USC-fan said:
Yes. It base on a gpu core. They didnt redesign the gpu to make dx11 for example. When people say custom they mean the have tweak and also remove things not needed in a console. Just like the rsx in the ps3 is custom but its still a 7900gs core...
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I think the Wii U would gain very little from using a DX11 GPU. We're in the 3rd generation of DX11 hardware but some of the big DX11 features like tesselation still perform poorly on anything other than high-end desktop cards. The Wii U is very likely to be using a laptop GPU as a base, due to the small case.
 
AzaK said:
What was this bit about? Did something come from Nintendo after E3? If they were upset about power comments, they should have done something about it at the press conference. They really obviously don't think it's important, so if the machine isn't that powerful, they need to just man up and move forward with what it is and stop trying to defend it.
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38694674&postcount=926

USC-fan said:
If u read the thread those were target specs from a long time ago...
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They haven't changed.
 
I know this is a bit off topic, but we don't have a speculation thread anymore..


Were the triggers confirmed to be analog?
 
Quick question: Has a Wii U version of the Unreal Engine 3 been made and sent out to developers yet?
 
Gahiggidy said:
Quick question: Has a Wii U version of the Unreal Engine 3 been made and sent out to developers yet?
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Well Arkham City was an UE3 game, so presumably it must have been.

EDIT:
Although someone posted a comparison shot earlier in the thread which looked kinda crappy on WiiU compared to the PS3 comparison shot. Althouh the PS3 comparison shot looked very bullshotty.
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
Well Arkham City was an UE3 game, so presumably it must have been.
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But that version doesn't look so hot, which is inexplicable if its running off a an engine built to take advantage of the hardware.
 
Saint Gregory said:
I swear that the average GAFer has selective amnesia. Does no one else remember what PS2/Xbox ports looked like on the 360?
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Yeah, I do. Kameo was a port-up of a finished Xbox game and a launch title. It couldn't possibly be mistaken for last-gen.
The "Holy shit. Next-gen has arrived." moment of last gen was a port-up of a game that was originally on PSX hardware.
 
TAJ said:
Yeah, I do. Kameo was a port-up of a finished Xbox game and a launch title. It couldn't possibly be mistaken for last-gen.
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It was made by Rare, who had always made impressive looking games.

Also, Xbox, feature-wise, was pretty close to 360.
 
Gahiggidy said:
But that version doesn't look so hot, which is inexplicable if its running off a an engine built to take advantage of the hardware.
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Early PS3 UE3 titles were pretty ropey too until Epic improved the performance of it for PS3 (which was around the launch of UT3 IIRC) so its possible UE3 isn't at all optimised for WiiU, and Arkham City is just brute forcing it by virtue of being more powerful.

It doesn't seem like the port team are WBs best either in fairness.
 
bgassassin said:
Everyone that has talked about them has said they are digital.
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Hopefully that changes before launch. Sunshine won't be the same without them.

How about the Pro controller; I assume it's exactly the same as the GamePad?

Ninja-edit: Thanks snesfreak
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
Early PS3 UE3 titles were pretty ropey too until Epic improved the performance of it for PS3 (which was around the launch of UT3 IIRC) so its possible UE3 isn't at all optimised for WiiU, and Arkham City is just brute forcing it by virtue of being more powerful.

It doesn't seem like the port team are WBs best either in fairness.
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Yes, all good points. Aliens will be a good barometer because, AFAIK, its being made by the same team and is not a port. Darksiders II looks just "good/ok" to begin with so I don't foresee any significant improvements to the Wii U version outside of a better frame rate or resolution.
 
Gahiggidy said:
But that version doesn't look so hot, which is inexplicable if its running off a an engine built to take advantage of the hardware.
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I would guess a lot of engines are still a bit borked atm on the hardware. Hell I recall mentions of the Darksiders engine being practically broken a few months back until some middleware was fixed.
 
TAJ said:
Yeah, I do. Kameo was a port-up of a finished Xbox game and a launch title. It couldn't possibly be mistaken for last-gen.
The "Holy shit. Next-gen has arrived." moment of last gen was a port-up of a game that was originally on PSX hardware.
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Is that the only port that you remember? If so then that's exactly what I meant about amnesia.

Rare for MS (at least at the time) was kind of like Retro is now to Nintendo. Once Retro's first game is shown if people still feel like the U is 2006 era hardware then we can have this thread.
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
Well Arkham City was an UE3 game, so presumably it must have been.

EDIT:
Although someone posted a comparison shot earlier in the thread which looked kinda crappy on WiiU compared to the PS3 comparison shot. Althouh the PS3 comparison shot looked very bullshotty.
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I don't understand why the WiiU ports look worse than the current versions. Isn't the processor similar to the Xbox 360's and it sports more ram as well? The architecture doesn't seem that much different in the specs that it'd be harder to code for.
 
riceandbeans said:
I don't understand why the WiiU ports look worse than the current versions. Isn't the processor similar to the Xbox 360's and it sports more ram as well? The architecture doesn't seem that much different in the specs that it'd be harder to code for.
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I think it's just early code/demo version.


I would expect by the time games like Arkham City and Assassins Creed 3 ship, they will look nearly identical to the PS360 versions.

If Arkham City looks worse, well, god help that game's sales. Reviewers/journalists will be all over any port that is worse and it won't be pretty. The developers should know this.
 
hatchx said:
I think it's just early code/demo version.


I would expect by the time games like Arkham City and Assassins Creed 3 ship, they will look nearly identical to the PS360 versions.

If Arkham City looks worse, well, god help that game's sales. Reviewers/journalists will be all over any port that is worse and it won't be pretty. The developers should know this.
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Honestly if Arkham City is done by who I think it is, I wouldn't expect improvements.

And I think they said AC3 won't have anything done to it either.
 
riceandbeans said:
I don't understand why the WiiU ports look worse than the current versions. Isn't the processor similar to the Xbox 360's and it sports more ram as well? The architecture doesn't seem that much different in the specs that it'd be harder to code for.
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Well based on the listed specs, the WiiU has an out of order execution CPU, and the Xenon is an in order of execution CPU, so architecturally they're about as different as it is possible to be.
 
I still dont see how Arkham City looks worse.


This shot was posted earlier and I dont think there's any conclusive difference. I didn't notice any pop-in in the demo either.

batman_arkham_city_wii_u_ps3_comparison.jpg
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Reading through this thread, I have no idea what to think. I can tell that everyone wants to believe different things, and are only accepting certain rumors based on their wants. Hard to tell who is unbiased and who isn't (although its easy to see the Nintendo fans).

I think I'll just count on this thing being a little more powerful than current gen. If it is indeed kind of a tweener, I could totally see devs ignoring it anyways. Might be too much work.

I hope its powerful enough to make Nintendo's games look nice, but it looks like I'll have to pick up a PS4/Xbox 3 now. Too bad one console can't have all of the things I want.
 
riceandbeans said:
I don't understand why the WiiU ports look worse than the current versions. Isn't the processor similar to the Xbox 360's and it sports more ram as well? The architecture doesn't seem that much different in the specs that it'd be harder to code for.
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It's still different hardware, with its own ins and outs. Ports are easy, but not THAT easy.
 
NBtoaster said:
I still dont see how Arkham City looks worse.


This shot was posted earlier and I dont think there's any conclusive difference. I didn't notice any pop-in in the demo either.
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Did Batman suddenly get shinier by moving to next gen?

Also, what's up with his shoulders & entire arm area?

I just want to see how Nintendo games will look on this thing.
 
CoffeeJanitor said:
Reading through this thread, I have no idea what to think. I can tell that everyone wants to believe different things, and are only accepting certain rumors based on their wants. Hard to tell who is unbiased and who isn't (although its easy to see the Nintendo fans).

I think I'll just count on this thing being a little more powerful than current gen. If it is indeed kind of a tweener, I could totally see devs ignoring it anyways. Might be too much work.

I hope its powerful enough to make Nintendo's games look nice, but it looks like I'll have to pick up a PS4/Xbox 3 now. Too bad one console can't have all of the things I want.
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Frankly nobody can actually say anything truly positive or completely negative at this point. We just don't know enough. There are great negative assumptions being made about the early ports shown in their incomplete states, for example. Then, on the other hand, there are assumptions that Wii U "should be" XX amount more powerful than PS3/360 and random opinions over the very first batch of software. It's all over the place.

Personally, I think the safe bet is that Wii U could provide an optimized environment over the PS360 while being in their general ballpark. In other words, if worked with properly, the annoying flaws like sub-HD, lack of AA, sub 30-fps games, texture and streaming limitations, etc, might all go away on Wii U. As it could be looked at a version of the HD twins with a lot more ram, slightly newer GPU, etc.

But the catch might come in the form of 3rd parties refusing to give a crap and throwing stuff on Wii U without any effort.

Personally, the game I would like to see, is Darksiders II on Wii U and compare to the PS360 builds. Vigil was acting all hot and bothered over the Wii U version, and keeps saying it will be the definitive edition. It would be a good demonstration of the system's capability if it ran Darksiders II say, the same as a higher end PC right now. All 60fps, AA, great IQ, best textures.
 
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