mansoor1980
Member
very nice OP
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Ctrl+Alt+Deceive: All The Dirt, Info, Lies, and LOLs We Found During FTC vs. Microsoft
- Thread starter Heisenberg007
- Start date
John Wick
Member
Thanks for compiling that list. It was obvious to anyone with a braincell what MS real plan was,stifle competition and buy your way to the top. Everything that came out of the FTC investigation MS said or did the opposite. Especially that scummy deal of offering Cod deals to five cloud providers after being cought out with that Matt Booty email and the Shills on here defending them.
Gudji
Member
Long live gamepass and Phil Spender.Starfield is convincing me to ditch my PS5 for an Xbox Series X because Game Pass is the best deal in gaming and when we all play together, we all win!
Crayon
Member
Gave a lot of people alarm bells. But in a many places -depending on how they are run or supported- talking about it would be met with a dogpile. The effect would be either gaslighting (starting to doubt it they are really seeing it or it's just their imagination) or self-censoring (learning that bringing it up is not worth the trouble).
graywolf323
Member
I’m holding out for Thread 2.0 for the real fireThread Patch 1.1 notes
- New point added at #10 about Microsoft blocking PS Plus deals. Sony bid for Valheim and Immortality for PS Plus but lost both bids to Microsoft. Both games launched as Game Pass exclusives.
- New point added at #36 about Pete Hines recommending Deathloop's exclusivity and how Zenimax actively sought out exclusivity for each title.
- All tweets now have image backups (linked right after each tweet) for the sake of information preservation.
- A few tweets weren't embedding properly, so I have added screenshots of those images. Tweets are linked immediately after each screenshot.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The timed exclusivity nonsense has effectively worked against Sony here. They have no leg to stand on after paying for Forspoken, FF7, FF16, Ghostwire, Godfall, Deathloop and countless other games not made by their first party studios.
They shouldve never even attempted to bid for Starfield. The industry was in a much better place after GTA and FF both went multiplatform at the start of the PS360 era. I get that MS restarted the whole exclusitivty nonsense with GTA4 DLCs and CoD Timed DLCs, but it sucks that Sony simply continued this practice when they became leaders. These big publishers dont need your dollars. Your internal studios do.
Other than that, I hope after this trial, nothing Phil or Microsoft execs say is taken as truth. It's either doublespeak or straight up lies. I would be happy with anything coming from MS labeled with as asterisk to denote that its a fucking lie. Every thread, every news. Asterisk. These guys dont deserve the courtesy of being treated like respectable men. Treat them like the bald face liars they are.
They shouldve never even attempted to bid for Starfield. The industry was in a much better place after GTA and FF both went multiplatform at the start of the PS360 era. I get that MS restarted the whole exclusitivty nonsense with GTA4 DLCs and CoD Timed DLCs, but it sucks that Sony simply continued this practice when they became leaders. These big publishers dont need your dollars. Your internal studios do.
Other than that, I hope after this trial, nothing Phil or Microsoft execs say is taken as truth. It's either doublespeak or straight up lies. I would be happy with anything coming from MS labeled with as asterisk to denote that its a fucking lie. Every thread, every news. Asterisk. These guys dont deserve the courtesy of being treated like respectable men. Treat them like the bald face liars they are.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
We are making live-service threads now, bitchesI’m holding out for Thread 2.0 for the real fire
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
FTC lawyers are clueless.
This is very similar to the Johnny Depp libel case against the Sun in UK where the Judge's son worked for a company owned by Rupert Murdoch who also owns the Sun.
EXPOSED: The Sun libel trial judge's son works for Rupert Murdoch
Nepotism! Judge Andrew Nicol's son works for TalkRADIO, a sister company of The Sun owned by Rupert Murdoc. Johnny Depp deserves ha retrial.
poptopic.com.au
Goliath77
Member
I am at a loss for words at the idiocy here. This is bonkersFTC lawyers are clueless.
This is very similar to the Johnny Depp libel case against the Sun in UK where the Judge's son worked for a company owned by Rupert Murdoch who also owns the Sun.
EXPOSED: The Sun libel trial judge's son works for Rupert Murdoch
Nepotism! Judge Andrew Nicol's son works for TalkRADIO, a sister company of The Sun owned by Rupert Murdoc. Johnny Depp deserves ha retrial.
Danwan224
Member
Fuck off was it
Nydius
Member
She disclosed that to both parties at the start of the hearings and the FTC lawyers effectively shrugged it off, which circles us back to SlimySnake’s point of…
Since she disclosed it and neither party objected, it’s a moot point for any future appeals.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its possible that the case was basically a political case for Lina Khan to boost her career on a high profile case. She was probably never serious about winning this case.
Nydius
Member
That seems like a risky move given how she got knocked down a peg in the FTC/Meta-Within case. If the FTC loses the PI here and they withdraw from the full case (as they did against Meta), that would be two very high profile big tech cases she’s taken on but failed to win.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I think the FTC will get the injunction.
Even if they fail to get it, I think the FTC will likely stick until the appeal process -- the deadline for which will likely be after July 18. Because of the CMA's block, Microsoft and ABK will walk away. And FTC will end up on the victors' side.
Nydius
Member
You’re more optimistic than I at this point. I simply don’t see where the FTC made their case that imminent harm will require a PI until the full trial (somewhat the same issue they had against Meta). The FTC has proven that Microsoft are bad liars and have a history of shady practices but I don’t think that’s going to be enough for Corley. I think she’s going to take Spencer and Nadella at their word (even though she shouldn’t).
As for the CMA, I’m beginning to lose my confidence there too. Can’t explain why, but I get the feeling Microsoft is using all this FTC coverage to pull some shady shit over in the UK while we’re distracted.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If they do, it's definitely not going to be because of the hearings, they failed to make a compelling case at all. The only way I see it happening is if the judge over-corrects on the "my son works for Microsoft" point.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I am hopeful because although the FTC failed to bring it all home in the closing arguments, they dug a lot of good stuff -- enough to create doubts.
And that's all they need to be honest: doubts. They need to establish that there is enough uncertainty and that they need more time. So the court grants them a PI, temporarily blocking Microsoft from closing the acquisition in the meantime.
That's why I'm slightly hopeful. But let's see what happens.
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Nydius
Member
They have to do more than establish a thread of doubt though. The FTC has to establish that such immediate harm exists to consumers or the market that the entire merger should, in effect, be paused entirely until it can be adjudicated in the full administrative trial.
The bar for the government to get a PI in these cases is high. And that’s why I’m trending pessimistic. While they established Microsoft pulls a lot of shitty moves, if Corley takes MS execs at their word about not disrupting the status quo, there’s really no reason for a PI until the full trial.
Edit: But enough of my pessimism. Have I told you that Starfield is going to make me ditch my PS5 for an XSX?
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DeaDPo0L84
Member
Yea but the gimped, I mean creative version is exclusive to Xbox.
Should anyone tell them they can play these on PC too?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
My understanding is different. At this point, they don't need to block the acquisition altogether so they don't have to establish the immediate harm point just yet (though it would help them for sure). If they can establish enough concerns and questions that requires further investigation, that'd be sufficient.They have to do more than establish a thread of doubt though. The FTC has to establish that such immediate harm exists to consumers or the market that the entire merger should, in effect, be paused entirely until it can be adjudicated in the full administrative trial.
The bar for the government to get a PI in these cases is high. And that’s why I’m trending pessimistic. While they established Microsoft pulls a lot of shitty moves, if Corley takes MS execs at their word about not disrupting the status quo, there’s really no reason for a PI until the full trial.
Edit: But enough of my pessimism. Have I told you that Starfield is going to make me ditch my PS5 for an XSX?
P.S. I'm throwing my PS5 into space!
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't get what the issue is with timed exclusives. Never had an issue with them. And MS has been doing that shit since they came in. Did it with splinter cell and Ninja Gaiden.
And if anyone believes that MS bought Bethesda because Sony was approaching them to make Starfield some sort of exclusive? Then I have some real angel feathers to sell.
Kokoloko85
Member
Great job. More than Nice.
Be good to get a pic of all the contradictionquotes lol
Be good to get a pic of all the contradictionquotes lol
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cinnamonandgravy
Member
maybe we need to bring bullying back
Nydius
Member
My understanding is different. At this point, they don't need to block the acquisition altogether so they don't have to establish the immediate harm point just yet (though it would help them for sure). If they can establish enough concerns and questions that requires further investigation, that'd be sufficient.
P.S. I'm throwing my PS5 into space!
Ok, so, rereading the documents, the word "imminent" is where I'm wrong. The FTC's argument in their first filing for the restraining order and the preliminary injunction is this: They believe that there will be anti-trust violations discovered in the full hearing and they are seeking a preliminary injunction to prevent the merger from closing prior to the adjudication of the full administrative hearing. Allowing the merger to close before/during the administrative case would cause "interim harm". They then ask for the preliminary injunction and the TRO to "maintain the status quo". (Screenshot from their filing below.)
It's the status quo part that fuels my pessimism and reading all of the publicly available filings from both the FTC and Microsoft-ABK, the issue of harm and status quo is repeatedly brought up by both. If Corley agrees with Microsoft's arguments that they've signed agreements and testified under oath that they aren't radically altering the market as-is, then there's no need for the injunction because the full administrative hearing is mere weeks away (August 2nd) where the FTC would need to make their case. If Corley is swayed by the arguments presented by the FTC and the internal emails from Microsoft proving a pattern of behavior, then maybe she will rule an injunction is necessary until the full hearing.
Unfortunately, I think she showed her hand during closing when she really turned the screws to the FTC.
Finally, don't send your PS5 into space, I don't want to bang into it and ruin it with my totally customized amazing starship.
Aguero9320
Member
I vote for a ban on the word ‘shill’ - it’s not just an attempt to stifle any opposing viewpoint, it’s become the most overused word on here since ‘biome’ after Returnal came out.
Humdinger
Member
Thank you. I appreciate you compiling a list. Very thorough! I had asked in another thread for a simple summary of what Phil had done to deserve condemnation (because I hadn't been paying close attention to all the acquisition news). No one responded, which I took to mean there wasn't much to it -- just console warriors getting riled up over little stuff.
Looking at the list, that is what I still think. I assume this will elicit some lol faces from the console warriors, but I don't see anything in that list of Phil's "sins" that elicit much more than a "so what" from me. Most of the "lies" are him saying one thing in public while thinking/knowing another thing in private. That happens all the time. You expect them to be transparent with the press and public about everything, when they're trying to negotiate massive financial transactions? Get real. I'm not saying that misrepresenting things is "right." I'm saying it isn't some huge, awful thing that warrants the level of outrage I've seen around here (Phil should lose his job, he has disgraced himself in public, he has lost all trust with gamers, etc.).
People really love their drama.
Looking at the list, that is what I still think. I assume this will elicit some lol faces from the console warriors, but I don't see anything in that list of Phil's "sins" that elicit much more than a "so what" from me. Most of the "lies" are him saying one thing in public while thinking/knowing another thing in private. That happens all the time. You expect them to be transparent with the press and public about everything, when they're trying to negotiate massive financial transactions? Get real. I'm not saying that misrepresenting things is "right." I'm saying it isn't some huge, awful thing that warrants the level of outrage I've seen around here (Phil should lose his job, he has disgraced himself in public, he has lost all trust with gamers, etc.).
People really love their drama.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Well i blame the shills for that. If it wasn't for the constant creation of alts we wouldn't have to worry about that kind of thing.
Gaf should unite and kick them the heck out.
Aguero9320
Member
Settle down there Senator McCarthy lol. Let the mods do their job - no need for an army of backseat mods. It’s too much. I’ve definitely felt less inclined to participate, and I’m sure I’m not the only one…
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Crayon
Member
I'm in favor of agreeing not to throw shill around so much... It's a serious topic and it would be better to stay cool about it and talk about the topic without blanketing people here. If someone is involved with a fud campaign for Instance they don't even necessarily know. Shouldn't hold it too much against the individual and definitely not every fan on the forum.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Well how do you think the mods find these people? With reports that we give them.
Your not defending them here right?
Because I don't see why anyone would defend extremists from any side.
Once they realise how easily they get banned hopefully that stops some of them from returning. The more we eliminate the better.
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Vognerful
Member
Good post. I have some comments, objections and additions I would love if you can add. My comments are not to argue about the point itself (I disagree with many) but what the header and content below should be based on my opinion.
After all, you characterized this as just compilation of news.
The officially statement by Sony is that it "typically", which means in some cases it does. On the other hand, Microsoft is more frequent to do this.
These points can be added to Sony or Microsoft part
The specific email did not show the will, it more offered an alternative or suggestion to Tim. "A different view to the general view" implies that at the time this was not their philosophy. I would say this is your conclusion from linking this email and hearing about the acquisition that Microsoft did, not factually stated by the email or other sources
I don't object to the header, but the content under. I will apologize here because I wanted to make sure that my comments are only about what was actually stated vs what you wrote, and not if it is "true, moral, if they are bad, etc". it seems to me you mischaracterized what Phil was talking about in IGN article. You also missed the most important in the article just to plug in this strategy talk:
Please added in the header "Jim Ryan says" to match with earlier headers from Sony
After all, you characterized this as just compilation of news.
The officially statement by Sony is that it "typically", which means in some cases it does. On the other hand, Microsoft is more frequent to do this.
These points can be added to Sony or Microsoft part
The specific email did not show the will, it more offered an alternative or suggestion to Tim. "A different view to the general view" implies that at the time this was not their philosophy. I would say this is your conclusion from linking this email and hearing about the acquisition that Microsoft did, not factually stated by the email or other sources
You are jumping the gun here. We have confirmation, or rumors or reports supporting that some of these dev/pub were approached. Saying that all of these publishers were approached would required bigger evidence than this.
I don't object to the header, but the content under. I will apologize here because I wanted to make sure that my comments are only about what was actually stated vs what you wrote, and not if it is "true, moral, if they are bad, etc". it seems to me you mischaracterized what Phil was talking about in IGN article. You also missed the most important in the article just to plug in this strategy talk:
I would say they your content for that header should be how Phil doesn't believe that xcloud doesn't appeal to your regular gamers and it would only find success in mobile gamers.
I think this is a bit simplified header. the statement was specifically about how to go into the mobile gaming business and his lack of ideas.
Why did you go for sensationalized header, when you could have said "Email communication between Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan ABK Deal"
Please added in the header "Jim Ryan says" to match with earlier headers from Sony
The pictures specifically states "console Gen9 share" and then goes to define what that is. To claim as you header, that means they did not Nintendo switch during gen8 sales reports, and won't include new switch or whatever in Gen9.
Aguero9320
Member
I don’t know if I’m defending them or not tbh
I don’t follow it super closely tbh, so I’m not sure what the harm which causes the outrage is? It’s not like we’re all using our real names here any way? I assume you are not actually MasterCornholio? Although it would be cool if you were…
I can see why the mods would have an issue with an alt to sidestep a ban because that’s clearly against the site’s wishes, but that doesn’t seem to be who the witch-hunts are aimed at?
Damn commies, everywhere. History will look back on this time as the ‘green scare’…
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MasterCornholio
Member
I don’t know if I’m defending them or not tbh
I don’t follow it super closely tbh, so I’m not sure what the harm which causes the outrage is? It’s not like we’re all using our real names here any way? I assume you are not actually MasterCornholio? Although it would be cool if you were…
I can see why the mods would have an issue with an alt to sidestep a ban because that’s clearly against the site’s wishes, but that doesn’t seem to be who the witch-hunts are aimed at?
Damn commies, everywhere. History will look back on this time as the ‘green scare’…
There wouldn't be any witch-hunts if those shit heads stayed away from this site.
There's nothing wrong with fans posting here. But there's assholes out there that constantly go to the extremes and that's the issue.
If your fine with that then I don't understand why you would support them. They only make fans look bad and fans don't deserve the fallout.
Aguero9320
Member
There seems to be extremes on both sides, no? Yet the accusations seem to be very one sided. Which is why McCarthyism comes to mind. Historically, witch hunts have never been looked back on proudly…
What I’d propose is an actual problem, at least IMO, is accusing everyone who had a differing viewpoint of being a shill or an alt or paid or receiving instruction what to say. Which is patently ridiculous and why I stepped into the conversation in the first place.
Don’t think we’re going to agree on this though, so I’ll step back out! Will read any reply you might have though, and ponder your viewpoint.
Crayon
Member
I'm really not worried about literally paid people. Sure there are some around but it's relatively few. The issue is the manipulation of fans to troll and spread rumors and stuff. Id point to the runup to this gen where there was a ludicrous amount of negative rumors about the PS5. It was one thing after another and spammed down pages.
MS deliberately riles their fans. 20 years hence, Xbox fandom is firmly preoccupied with ps because ultimately the Xbox birthright is to be the ps killer. You do not need to get paid to join the mission. Just properly directed and motivated. And that makes a lot of fucking people. Way more of them and more disruptive than anyone getting paid.
MS deliberately riles their fans. 20 years hence, Xbox fandom is firmly preoccupied with ps because ultimately the Xbox birthright is to be the ps killer. You do not need to get paid to join the mission. Just properly directed and motivated. And that makes a lot of fucking people. Way more of them and more disruptive than anyone getting paid.
gothmog
Gold Member
Find solid evidence of astroturfing by others and it will be taken seriously. Otherwise sentiments like this is just spreading FUD.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I was listening to several podcasts... very interesting to see the takeaways of this case.
I think Xbox fantrolls/influencers may not possess the necessary understanding or awareness to fully comprehend how bad the Xbox situation is/has been.
this acquisition feels like the last resort to stop Xbox falling into irrelevance (as a brand) which for all intents and purposes already is outside the United States. And a desperate attempt to justify Xbox as a business to MS. And this situation wasn't Sony's fault in the slightest but Xbox/MS massive incompetence.
These fantrolls/influencers believe once the acquisition is done, all Xbox issues are going to magically disappear.The odds for MS to destroy/damage Activision/ Blizzard are quite high.
I can feel the nervousness behind the false sense of security of "Xbox destroying the FTC".
because if the PI is granted, the Xbox business is as good as dead.
I think Xbox fantrolls/influencers may not possess the necessary understanding or awareness to fully comprehend how bad the Xbox situation is/has been.
this acquisition feels like the last resort to stop Xbox falling into irrelevance (as a brand) which for all intents and purposes already is outside the United States. And a desperate attempt to justify Xbox as a business to MS. And this situation wasn't Sony's fault in the slightest but Xbox/MS massive incompetence.
These fantrolls/influencers believe once the acquisition is done, all Xbox issues are going to magically disappear.The odds for MS to destroy/damage Activision/ Blizzard are quite high.
I can feel the nervousness behind the false sense of security of "Xbox destroying the FTC".
because if the PI is granted, the Xbox business is as good as dead.
Crayon
Member
Idk maybe they could keep chugging along. It was my understanding that the Xbox one was still making money when it was apparently on the back foot. Then again now there's game pass stuck in an expensive user aquisition aquisition phase for six years with the mobile streaming promise land nowhere in sight. But whatever rate of money they're burning is not more than 70 billion but who knows.
Iced Arcade
Member
A lot of work, kudos for that
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is why, SlimyFTC lawyers are clueless.
This is very similar to the Johnny Depp libel case against the Sun in UK where the Judge's son worked for a company owned by Rupert Murdoch who also owns the Sun.
EXPOSED: The Sun libel trial judge's son works for Rupert Murdoch
Nepotism! Judge Andrew Nicol's son works for TalkRADIO, a sister company of The Sun owned by Rupert Murdoc. Johnny Depp deserves ha retrial.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
Oh.My.Toad.Todd.
Too much dirty lies from Phil/Xbox/Microsoft that I don't even know how they remember all of them.
.
TL;DR about Phil/Xbox/Microsoft dirty ambitions outside of Cumbaya Mode:
Too much dirty lies from Phil/Xbox/Microsoft that I don't even know how they remember all of them.
TL;DR about Phil/Xbox/Microsoft dirty ambitions outside of Cumbaya Mode:
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Thanks for the comment and suggestions.
- I've added the word 'often' in the title.
- The next 2 weren't big enough news to be added: the 1st one is a given as that has been Sony's stance since the beginning, and the 2nd one was just Jim saying that he doesn't have all the info and data to say what he would do. That's like nothing. I've also not added other similar-sized news.
- I disagree. The email shows a clear will to spend Sony out of business and they proved it by spending $80 billion in only 4 years since that email.
- The word 'implies' takes care of that.
- The subsequent content only adds additional context and reported information to explain its importance and why this point is here. It doesn't have any commentary.
- The mobile business part is in the details as part of his original email screenshot. That provides additional context for "why" he suggested it. In my defense, it's nearly impossible to provide complete context in headers only. The subsequent and images are responsible for providing additional context once the header hooks the reader.
- Same as above.
- The text started with "According to Jim Ryan," so it seems trivial and repetitive ... but I've edited the header anyway.
- Because it discusses the present. Gen 8 is behind us by 3 years. This is what they are currently doing on a weekly/monthly basis so the header is 100% accurate.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
A realistic deduction. I'm also on the same page right now.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well its like marketshare. Its impossible to have it split down the middle. One side will always have more than the other. The reason why its being brought up a lot now is because there's a huge deal on the line. As a result many extremists are going crazy over it and it shows. Evidence is in the ban list and it's easy to keep track of what's happening here. This isn't normal behavior and fans shouldn't be blamed for it.
As for people being paid to do this its something that happens. But it's true that there are others who do it for free.
Honestly I just want them to stop. I really would like it if people would stop doing drive by shit posts with old accounts that they barely use. Then once they get banned they just return to do the same thing again. That whole Florian situation was just really shitty and I don't want to go though it again.
Neo_GAF
Banned
even icloud is not secure. there is a shadowversion always built off your data in case you delete something restorable for 365days.the FBI or any intelligence service might need the data, so thats why meta, ms, google and apple have this kind of "service" for your trustworthy government. i absolutely love this, because they even do this, despite me not being an americunt.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Phil says he wants to abandon Xbox and focus entirely on the cloud anyways. I think it's a good idea, it's obvious MS has no idea how to operate a creative business like game studios and development.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
A mobile gaming division might actually be a better idea for Xbox, to be honest.
XGS can produce good and fun AA games; they have proven that. It is AAAs that they always make a mess of. Even their AAAs aren't at even 50% of the level of other giant AAA publishers.
It might be a better and more profitable idea to just completely abandon that part and instead focus on mobile games and AA games that can run on mobile devices.
jm89
Member
Great thread
Heisenberg007
Just love how folks where hoping it was sonys dirty laundry that would be out on mass, ended up being microsofts.
Those folks right now.
Heisenberg007
Just love how folks where hoping it was sonys dirty laundry that would be out on mass, ended up being microsofts.
Those folks right now.
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