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[Chittagong]

While the current discussion about a law banning domestic smacking of chlidren in UK demonstrated that the kingdom is not willing to offer children with similar protection against violence as adults, do we know how is USA doing?

I was stunned to learn about the situation in the USA. Both parents and schools are allowed to spank kids - and they do, indeed!

Schools actually spank kids in the USA with a permission and are legally protected to do so. I remember reading about it in Mark Twain's Tom Saywer but I never actually realized that it is still going on. Check out the stats below:

RANK STATE % OF PUPILS
BATTERED NUMBER OF PUPILS
BATTERED
1 Mississippi 10.1% 49,859
2 Arkansas 9.2% 40,811
3 Alabama 6.3% 45,610
4 Tennessee 4.0% 36,477
5 Oklahoma 3.0% 18,581
6 Louisiana 2.7% 19,986
7 Georgia 2.13% 27,759
8 Texas 2.07% 81,373
9 Missouri 1.1% 9,717
10 New Mexico 0.9% 2,935

Source: Office for Civil Rights l998 Elementary and Secondary School Civil Rights Compliance Report

Is Corporal Punishment Legal?
Shocking as it may seem, the answer in many states is yes. Depending on where you live, it is legal for a teacher or principal to hit a child with a wooden paddle. Although corporal punishment is banned in almost every industrialized country in the world, here in the United States almost half of all states (23) still allow it. And while the number of school paddlings has dropped, an average of 2,000 students a day still receive corporal punishment for such offenses as skipping school, disrupting class, talking out of turn, or sometimes much more trivial ones

Granted, there are lots of religious fundamentalists hitting their kids with rods as allegedly teached in the Bible, and Southern states that are known to be conservative and all, put still I'm very genuinely negatively surprised - no hints of such action in the US carry accross the Atlantic. I guess it is a tabu for the US broadcast media, news, tv shows and movies.

For shocking/upsetting reading and distrurbing pictures, check out www.nospank.net.
It really made me sick.

Something to think about.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Oh no! Someone think of the spoiled brats!*








* read: Children

 

[Teknopathetic]

They toned it down in Central Arkansas because that's the most urban area and we urban kids don't play dat shit.

 

[Matt]

Public Education is a state issue, and therefore states have to be the ones that ban it. There are many, many issues just like this one.

 

[Catchpenny]

I remember asking for corporal punishment once in middle school, because the alternative was a three-day suspension and I didn't want my mom finding out I was in trouble.

Too bad the vice-principal didn't see it my way. Would've preferred a sore ass to being grounded for two weeks and having to make up all the work after the suspension.

 

[Chittagong]

I remember asking for corporal punishment once in middle school, because the alternative was a three-day suspension and I didn't want my mom finding out I was in trouble.

Too bad the vice-principal didn't see it my way. Would've preferred a sore ass to being grounded for two weeks and having to make up all the work after the suspension.

WTF, so it's really true, they actually beat kids with pieces of wood in US schools?

I wonder how I have never seen this shit in TV series, movies, news, magazines - the usual ways of forming a picture of a foreign nation (besides occasional trips for few weeks).

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Sadly, most educators these days are too afraid to administer corporal punishment... today's ill-tempered, spoiled brats are likely to retaliate with physical violence. No teacher wants to get shot by some kid they spanked.

That, or litigious parents will file lawsuits against the school and administration, and cost the teacher his or her job simply for trying to discipline the child.

 

[Teknopathetic]

If you form a picture of a nation by TV you must think we all either speak like an Italian mobster or Celie from the Color Purple.

 

[Ned Flanders]

It shocks me to read that people are shocked that corporal punishment is permitted!! Even though my mother wouldn't permit me to receive it (parents can leave notification with the principal disallowing any physical punishment for their children), I always grew up with the healthy fear and understanding that the principal was the man who whooped your ass if you did something foul.

And WTF is so bad about a fucking SPANKING anyway? I mean sure you can tell stories of atrocities etc where principals/administrators went overboard, but a good firm swatting for a disruptive kid can be a great deterrant. My mom always took the stance that she didn't want someone she didn't know disciplining/touching her kid, which is perfectly understandable, but I don't think you should disallow your children from corporal punishment unless they will be just as firmly disciplined at home for misbehaving at school. Of course nowdays society is so pussified that you can't spank your OWN FUCKING KID without being called a child abuser.

 

[Chittagong]

If you form a picture of a nation by TV you must think we all either speak like an Italian mobster or Celie from the Color Purple.

Lol, actually, besides movies and TV, I do read US magazines, books, websites, chats, boards, and have many US friends, as well as local friends who have lived in the US. In addition to that, I actually stay due to my job in the US for a few weeks every now and then.

 

[Catchpenny]

Well, because of the scrutiny over this issue it's not like they beat the kids or anything. I'd guess it's some fairly tame whacks with a paddle in most cases. No one wants to risk a lawsuit. Though it was legal in my state to perform corporal punishment at school, I never knew anyone that actually had it done to them. Also, I think it may require parental consent in some or all cases.

Spanking is pretty useless as a disciplinary tool...it's difficult to strike a balance between causing serious harm, and barely stinging the child so they don't consider it a punishment at all.

 

[Desperado]

What the hell? I've never heard of any stories of corporal punishment around here...and I live in Texas. TEXAS.

 

[Chittagong]

It shocks me to read that people are shocked that corporal punishment is permitted!! Even though my mother wouldn't permit me to receive it (parents can leave notification with the principal disallowing any physical punishment for their children), I always grew up with the healthy fear and understanding that the principal was the man who whooped your ass if you did something foul.

And WTF is so bad about a fucking SPANKING anyway? I mean sure you can tell stories of atrocities etc where principals/administrators went overboard, but a good firm swatting for a disruptive kid can be a great deterrant. My mom always took the stance that she didn't want someone she didn't know disciplining/touching her kid, which is perfectly understandable, but I don't think you should disallow your children from corporal punishment unless they will be just as firmly disciplined at home for misbehaving at school. Of course nowdays society is so pussified that you can't spank your OWN FUCKING KID without being called a child abuser.

Well, that is a larger argument. However, after the Singapore incident (the campaign for the kid of a US diplomat who got his ass whipped for some mischief according to Singapore legislation) I figured that such things are considered not ok over there. Knowing what I know now, I guess then it wasn't a case about disciplinary caning of a US citizen not being ok, but the fact that it was performed by a Singapore authority rather than an US authority.

 

[ManaByte]

http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

Five across the eyes. This is a very basic maneuver and usually enough to cover most situations when your child is out of line. Simply put four fingers tightly together and either leave the thumb off to the side or fold it behind the other four fingers. Then smack your kid across the face with the back of your hand. Now this is the tricky part: make sure to snap your wrist just before contact otherwise you won't get a stinging effect. Very important because you don't want to risk letting your kid think you're a pussy.

Classic!

 

[Chittagong]

http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html Classic!

ROFLMAO (bring back the lol smiley dammit)

 

[Ripclawe]

Well, that is a larger argument. However, after the Singapore incident (the campaign for the kid of a US diplomat who got his ass whipped for some mischief according to Singapore legislation) I figured that such things are considered not ok over there.

wha? People were cheering for this kid to get his butt whipped over here.

 

[ManaByte]

wha? People were cheering for this kid to get his butt whipped over here.

If they put it on pay-per-view they would've made MILLIONS!

 

[Chittagong]

wha? People were cheering for this kid to get his butt whipped over here.

Hahaha, then it was just us wimps Europeans feeling bad for the kid. I recall there were all sorts of official political attempts to rescue him.

 

[Wolfy]

Dude, what's the big deal? As an experienced school veteran, I would be the first to tell you that some kids need to get smacked. Especially in the generation below us. I mean holy shit, they are demons.

 

[Meier]

I was raised with being spanked by the hand and the belt, slapped, mouth washed out with soap, etc. and I'm greatful for it. It's the best way a parent can instill some discipline in their children IMO and the lack of it these days is largely responsible for all the slackers and terrible kids that the US is so overrun with now.

 

[mjq jazz bar]

My school district has something written about paddling in their policy somewhere, but I don't think it was ever used. If it were, I would have heard about it.

I'm from Texas.

 

[Diablos]

What a surprise, a bunch of southern states beating their kids in school.
Hehe.

 

[ScientificNinja]

We had the cane in prep school and I regularly had my ass whipped by my dad. My mum used an enormous wooden spoon. As kid I was terrified of the cane at school, mostly because I had no idea how hard they'd whip my ass/palms there. I'd still support it, though - it's the only way to make an impression with these spoilt kids who think they're invincible. Nothing personal, but any time I hear people expressing their moral outrage towards corporal punishment, my brain just says "you softcock".

 

[belgurdo]

Take note that it's mostly the redn...Southern states that advocate CP. It's largely been phased out everywhere else.

And patting some kid's ass with a piece of wood doesn't teach them shit; maybe how to know to swing faster to produce bruising on their own kids in the future maybe.

 

[dog$]

but any time I hear people expressing their moral outrage towards corporal punishment, my brain just says "you softcock".

Abuse begets abuse.

 

[belgurdo]

Nothing personal, but any time I hear people expressing their moral outrage towards corporal punishment, my brain just says "you softcock".

No, you just accepted CP because you just got beat down regularly and had no alternative. There are ways to reprimand kids without breaking out the weapons and going Killer Instinct on them.

 

[Chittagong]

Dude, what's the big deal? As an experienced school veteran, I would be the first to tell you that some kids need to get smacked. Especially in the generation below us. I mean holy shit, they are demons.

Well, the big deal is, as in the header, culture shock - since any sort of violence toward kids is very negatively perceived / criminal in Europe, especially in Scandinavia. In Scandinavia, teachers would go to jail for such activity. That coupled with the fact that the school system in a Nordic country has been selected the best in the world (in the OECD rating) in literacy of five different subjects - although no correlation between the lack of violence and results can be proven, of course.

Hence, the purpose of this topic was to illustrate the surprise of discovering how something that is considered totally unacceptable in another continent may be fine in another.

EDIT:

Speaking of Scandinavia reminds me of Stockholm Syndrome in the context of this discussion, for some reason:

The Stockholm Syndrome: Not Just For Hostages
by Dee L.R. Graham, Edna Rawlings, Nelly Rimini

The Stockholm Syndrome is an emotional attachment, a bond of interdependence between captive and captor that develops 'when someone threatens your life, deliberates, and doesn't kill you.' (Symonds, 1980) The relief resulting from the removal of the threat of death generates intense feelings of gratitude and fear which combine to make the captive reluctant to display negative feelings toward the captor or terrorist. In fact, former hostages have visited their captors in jail, recommended defense counsel, and even started a defense fund. It is this dynamic which causes former hostages and abuse survivors to minimize the damage done to them and refuse to cooperate in prosecuting their tormentors.

"The victims' need to survive is stronger than his impulse to hate the person who has created his dilemma." (Strentz, 1980) The victim comes to see the captor as a 'good guy', even a savior.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

My aunt works as a nurse and went whistle blowing on a principal that spanked children.

 

[ScientificNinja]

Abuse begets abuse.

Oh pfft. Now that's just a gross generalization. All things considered, I'm one of the least violent people I know.

 

[ScientificNinja]

No, you just accepted CP because you just got beat down regularly and had no alternative. There are ways to reprimand kids without breaking out the weapons and going Killer Instinct on them.

Another ridiculous generalization. My ass wasn't beaten regularly - only when the situation demanded it, which was, believe it or not, not very often at all. Neither of my parents went "Killer Instinct" on me - the punishment was always a measured response to something I'd done. They'd explain to me that what I'd done was wrong and that I'm not to do it again, and then I get a single whack.

It's a very simple reward/punishment process. You teach dogs obedience in exactly the same way - and, sadly, that's exactly what a lot of these demon children need.

 

[Odoul]

Past 1st grade I never worried about CP in school(Detroit Public Schools). At home was another story. I got FUCKED up plenty and look how I turned out. A bitter motherfucker. My dad used to spew that spare the rod bull. I and my little brother got off relatively light though, he used to be positively EVIL with my older sisters and mom. The only things I ever learned was that you could slap/choke/humiliate people if they got you angry enough. If I had kids I'd cut off my own nuts before I'd put them through the hellish shit I had to go through. It didn't make me a better more well rounded person. As a matter of fact, my father still has something coming. He might have forgotten, but one day I'm going to hit him across the face with a belt buckle.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

I was raised with being spanked by the hand, slapped, and I'm greatful for it. It's the best way a parent can instill some discipline in their children IMO and the lack of it these days is largely responsible for all the slackers and terrible kids that the US is so overrun with now.

Another ridiculous generalization. My ass wasn't beaten regularly - only when the situation demanded it, which was, believe it or not, not very often at all. Neither of my parents went "Killer Instinct" on me - the punishment was always a measured response to something I'd done. They'd explain to me that what I'd done was wrong and that I'm not to do it again, and then I get a single whack.

It's a very simple reward/punishment process. You teach dogs obedience in exactly the same way - and, sadly, that's exactly what a lot of these demon children need.

:thumbs way up:

And it's not like I'm from the south either... I'm from Canada. Young children don't understand reasoning, so the best way to get them to stop doing something (even after you've askesd them nicely) is to spank em'. Spank em' once or twice and they'll never do whatever they were doing again.

I bet all the mouthy, terrible, slacker kids as mentioned by Meier are the ones who were never spanked.

 

[Flaming Duck]

It isn't like every staff member has the power to just randomly pull kids out of classes and swat them as hard as they want. CP was used pretty regularly in my school (Missouri). Parents had the option to decline CP and punish their kids their own way, of course. I think the Principal was the only one who had the power to swat, but I could be wrong on that. Regardless, another teacher had to be there to witness the administration of the paddling in case some parent became lawsuit-happy. Anyway, it was usually the same group of kids who got swatted. Also, it was usually a last-resort type of thing. If they missed their detentions or whatever punishment they had before, then they'd get the swats.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

I believe corporal punishment by teachers is also allowed in Canada. No one does it, but I do believe it is legal. I recall reading about it.

 

[Phoenix]

That, or litigious parents will file lawsuits against the school and administration, and cost the teacher his or her job simply for trying to discipline the child.

Your answer is right here.

 

[Phoenix]

Another one of those situations where a demographic poll would be nice.

How old are you?
Do you have kids?
How often do you spank them? {never, rarely, often, spanking them as I type}
If you don't spank, how do you discipline your children?
Would you like it if schools could use reasonable CP?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html



Classic!

I'm about to piss my pants.

The one-two shut-the-hell-up. This is priceless when you're shopping and your kid won't shut the hell up: "I'm hungry, I want toys, I need my Insulin..." etc. First smack your kid (the 5 across the eyes technique works). Wait a few seconds for your kid to start crying, then smack your kid again to let him know that you mean business. This usually shuts them up because they see that the amount of crying is proportional to the amount of beatings.

I wouldn't mind giving out a few digital one-two shut-the-hell-up's around here.

Edit: Maybe I should start reading Maddox's page more often
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=five_shitty_movies

 

[MASB]

Past 1st grade I never worried about CP in school(Detroit Public Schools). At home was another story. I got FUCKED up plenty and look how I turned out. A bitter motherfucker. My dad used to spew that spare the rod bull. I and my little brother got off relatively light though, he used to be positively EVIL with my older sisters and mom. The only things I ever learned was that you could slap/choke/humiliate people if they got you angry enough. If I had kids I'd cut off my own nuts before I'd put them through the hellish shit I had to go through. It didn't make me a better more well rounded person. As a matter of fact, my father still has something coming. He might have forgotten, but one day I'm going to hit him across the face with a belt buckle.

Just because your dad was/is a piece of shit, doesn't mean CP is bad. The fact that he hit your mom should have been a clue. Slapping/choking, etc. does that sound like a little spanking like normal CP is? Using your experience to say CP is bad is like using a drunk driver as an example that anyone who drinks alcohol gets drunk and drives. One bad egg doesn't mean all are. I'm sorry for what you went through, but that doesn't have anything to do with CP. Heck, I have some relatives(some in my immediate family, others a little more distantly related) that are crazier and sorrier than your dad, but I try not to let their bad examples paint my view of everything else/other people.

Normal people with brains and morals know how much CP is needed. You spank your kids to punish and encourage better behavior, not to hurt them. And if you have to spank your kids on a regular basis, then something is wrong and you need to try other things along with spanking, since for some kids, spanking them doesn't make them behave at all. The same way that timeouts, etc. don't have any effect on other kids. You have to use CP and other punishments according to the child's own temperment. Some need spanking more than others, and some rare kids don't need it at all. It shouldn't be used to hurt/abuse kids at any rate. And I think most people are sane enough to know when someone is spanking a kid to alter their bad behavior and someone who is knocking kids around to be mean, evil, for the heck of it.

Example of perhaps over-zealous CP: One time I was at Target playing videogames at a display. I was just playing, not really paying attention to people around me. Then behind me, a black woman looked down the aisle and said to (I assume it was her child): "What are you doing down there boy?! I TOLD you not to go down there. Come HERE!" Now the kid, he was maybe 14-15 I guess. So he comes down to his mother? and she takes her purse and she just hits him aside of the head with it. And the kid he ducks and runs away (like I would have) with the mom following him (not running after him, just walking). While she was hitting him, I thought, "Should I be turning around and being prepared to defend myself?" Because I was looking at them peripherally and I wasn't sure of the mom/son relationship yet. How often do people start attacking others in a store? So I thought maybe I should be ready in case she comes for me. But I just sort of nonchalantly as possible, ignored it and they went on as I said. Now don't you know the kid was kind of embarrassed, I mean everyone kind of stared at this whacked out woman. A person shouldn't be hitting their kids like that in public and not in private either, with that kind of force. So there's an example of a bad way to do CP.

And also, spanking shouldn't ever be the first resort for punishment.

 

[MASB]

RANK STATE % OF PUPILS
BATTERED NUMBER OF PUPILS
BATTERED
1 Mississippi 10.1% 49,859
2 Arkansas 9.2% 40,811
3 Alabama 6.3% 45,610
4 Tennessee 4.0% 36,477
5 Oklahoma 3.0% 18,581
6 Louisiana 2.7% 19,986
7 Georgia 2.13% 27,759
8 Texas 2.07% 81,373
9 Missouri 1.1% 9,717
10 New Mexico 0.9% 2,935

Source: Office for Civil Rights l998 Elementary and Secondary School Civil Rights Compliance Report

When they say battered, what do they mean? Do they mean a light/moderate spanking because the child did something wrong, which if that is what they mean, then they're verging on hyperbole. Or do they mean, Teacher: "Tommy! You got a F for your essay. I thought I told you to study hard for it! C'mere!" SLAP! PUNCH! That I would call battering. These are pretty high percentages, for either spanking or battering. I've never heard of a teacher around here that has spanked a kid, even if the kid told them to fuck off or whatever (in which case a spanking should be the least punishment to be included with whatever heavier administartive punishments can be applied (suspension, detention, etc., etc.).

 

[Chittagong]

When they say battered, what do they mean? Do they mean a light/moderate spanking because the child did something wrong, which if that is what they mean, then they're verging on hyperbole.

I believe it is the number of kids officially hit with the piece of wood in the principals office, apparently the schools have to file and report the cases. As for the teachers asses being sued, it seems that it's not possible at all, they are legally protected.

They seem to use a specially designed piece of wood to do it, one with holes drilled in it and allegedly originally invented for land owners to smack their black slaves as painfully as possible without leaving permanent damage.

 

[Blackace]

It is State by State here... in Washington State you cannot hit your kids here.

Also don't you think the word battered is a little strong for a spanking?

 

[Chittagong]

It is State by State here... in Washington State you cannot hit your kids here.

Also don't you think the word battered is a little strong for a spanking?

Well, I couldn't really tell the difference since I'm not a native english speaker. The list and its wording is from www.nospank.com, which has it's own agenda against such activities, so that might be a reason for the choice of words.

 

[Gek54]

I will always regret the day I laughed while getting spanked by my parents. Time outs suck so much more. I always picked getting paddled over getting detention in school. A few seconds of sharp pain compared to hours of doing nothing was always preferred.

 

[Scoobert]

Yes paddling sucks, but come one. Their are some kids that just need one bad.

When I was much younger, I went to a private school and punishment was always getting spanked. It wasn't a paddle though, it was a stack of books. I was so bad during that time but never ever got spanked. For some reason I got good grades, everyone liked me, and when I would get in trouble I would never get spanked. I was soo evil that I would see my friends get hit and I would be laughing right there in the office. Of course I would try covering my mouth and stuff. Man I was evil, lol.

 

[sprsk]

I got spanked at school once in 8th grade, it was more funny than it was painfull. It's hardly effective, just a thing for the staff so they can feel like they are making a difference. All it does, in reality, is force the kids to be even more sneaky about the mischief they do.

 

[TaleSynz]

Lol, actually, besides movies and TV, I do read US magazines, books, websites, chats, boards, and have many US friends, as well as local friends who have lived in the US. In addition to that, I actually stay due to my job in the US for a few weeks every now and then.

I hate to hear what you think of us brothers...

Anyway, Im all for beating little ****'s when they run their mouth.

I remember when I was about 7 years old I went to vist family friends in Georgia for about a month. And for the month I went to camp. One day I was talking when one of the camp advisors was talking and he hit me in the hands and my arms with a a rope that he worse around his neck to hold his keys. I wasnt all that mad, just more shocked if anything. I was visiting Georgia from New York, and I never knew that that was allowed.

Talk about culture shock....

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

Though if someone tried to hit me who weren't my parents, I don't care who they are, I would beat the living shit out of them.

 

[MetatronM]

Honestly, I blame a large portion of the apparent ADD epidemic amongst America's youth today on the fact that parents are buying into this timeout bullshit. TIMEOUT DOES NOTHING. DON'T YOU REMEMBER BEING A KID? GIVE THEM A FUCKING SPANKING, SEND THEM TO THEIR ROOM, AND GROUND THEM FOR A WEEK. THAT IS WHAT FUCKING WORKS.

That said, spanking in school is stupid. Let parents do the parenting, and educators do the educating.

 

[dskillzhtown]

Honestly, I blame a large portion of the apparent ADD epidemic amongst America's youth today on the fact that parents are buying into this timeout bullshit. TIMEOUT DOES NOTHING. DON'T YOU REMEMBER BEING A KID? GIVE THEM A FUCKING SPANKING, SEND THEM TO THEIR ROOM, AND GROUND THEM FOR A WEEK. THAT IS WHAT FUCKING WORKS.

That said, spanking in school is stupid. Let parents do the parenting, and educators do the educating.

IAWTP. Timeout never has worked. It just gives the kid time to rest and think of something else to do.