Current Sega vs Old Sega which is better?

Sega is better?

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I get that current Sega is probably in a better place financially than they've been at any point since going third-party, and that's good for them. But if we're talking about game output, risk-taking, and pure creativity?

Old Sega blows current Sega out of the water. Back then they were constantly pushing boundaries — Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, Nights into Dreams, Phantasy Star Online, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Streets of Rage 2, the list goes on.

Today's Sega still makes solid games, but they play it much safer and don't take nearly the same kind of creative swings they used to. Financial stability is one thing — being the bold, risk-taking Sega that built their legacy is another.
 
RetroAV said:
I get that current Sega is probably in a better place financially than they've been at any point since going third-party, and that's good for them. But if we're talking about game output, risk-taking, and pure creativity?

Old Sega blows current Sega out of the water. Back then they were constantly pushing boundaries — Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, Nights into Dreams, Phantasy Star Online, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Streets of Rage 2, the list goes on.

Today's Sega still makes solid games, but they play it much safer and don't take nearly the same kind of creative swings they used to. Financial stability is one thing — being the bold, risk-taking Sega that built their legacy is another.
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I imagine the development costs nowadays play a part.
however, yes, more creativity is rarely bad.
 
RetroAV said:
I get that current Sega is probably in a better place financially than they've been at any point since going third-party, and that's good for them. But if we're talking about game output, risk-taking, and pure creativity?

Old Sega blows current Sega out of the water. Back then they were constantly pushing boundaries — Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, Nights into Dreams, Phantasy Star Online, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Streets of Rage 2, the list goes on.

Today's Sega still makes solid games, but they play it much safer and don't take nearly the same kind of creative swings they used to. Financial stability is one thing — being the bold, risk-taking Sega that built their legacy is another.
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Its easier to take risks when games took at most 2 years to produce.

We will never get that kind of creativity back because a single flop can sink your studio.
 
Sega losing their console business was like losing the Cold War of video games. Look at how out of control Nintendo has become, especially in modern times. So anti consumer that it's disgusting. Sega still makes fun games across multiple genres and Nintendo is stuck rehashing their old titles over and over. Would you like another Mario Kart game? How about another 3D platforming game? Thou shalt have Pokemon again and again! Why innovate when this crap keeps selling? Somebody drag Miyamoto out of retirement feed the man some magic mushrooms, roll him a joint, and maybe a line or two. We need innovation! Hail SEGA!

We actually had innovation driving the industry when Sega was all over arcades and at home.
 
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Dev1lXYZ said:
Sega losing their console business was like losing the Cold War of video games. Look at how out of control Nintendo has become, especially in modern times. So anti consumer that it's disgusting. Sega still makes fun games across multiple genres and Nintendo is stuck rehashing their old titles over and over. Would you like another Mario Kart game? How about another 3D platforming game? Thou shalt have Pokemon again and again! Why innovate when this crap keeps selling? Somebody drag Miyamoto out of retirement feed the man some magic mushrooms, roll him a joint, and maybe a line or two. We need innovation! Hail SEGA!

We actually had innovation driving the industry when Sega was all over arcades and at home.
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Try Donkey Kong: Bananza
 
YeulEmeralda said:
Its easier to take risks when games took at most 2 years to produce.

We will never get that kind of creativity back because a single flop can sink your studio.
Click to expand...

I get the point about higher development costs, but who says you have to spend an arm and a leg to take risks? Not every game needs to be a giant, $100M blockbuster.

Budget accordingly and you can still experiment — especially now, with the tools and resources available to developers. Look at the indie scene, AA projects, and mid-tier games that are doing creative, interesting things without breaking the bank.

Sega doesn't have to only make massive, safe bets. They could still take risks — just on a scale that makes sense. Creativity isn't inherently tied to budget size.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
I'll say that 5ch may not be the most reliable source in the world, I'll also ask if the takeover of Atlus was a terrible idea under his stewardship?
Isn't Netease a shitshow closing many studios?

I think the truth is somehow more nuanced than your childish and simplistic "Yagoshi is the devil" viewpoint.
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I say that you haven't provided anything meaningful to push your argument (unlike me), never addressed the full post and resorted to bad faith and other ridiculous personal attacks. I doubt you experienced SEGA yourself for the last 30 years and my kids might be older than you. I have been a reviewer of SEGA games for more than 15 years on the biggest French website, by the way. I know quite well how things unfolded, with for example Valkyria Chronicles starting as an Xbox 360 game before it strangely became a PS3 exclusive.

Anyone who lived through this period saw very clearly what was happening. Mike Hayes was the only positive back then but he had limited power. Nagoshi left, that's for the best, and this is for everyone to witness right now. As soon as Nagoshi started being put in the backlight, things moved at SEGA, and this includes your cherished Yakuza series.
 
cireza said:
I say that you haven't provided anything meaningful to push your argument (unlike me), never addressed the full post and resorted to bad faith and other ridiculous personal attacks. I doubt you experienced SEGA yourself for the last 30 years and my kids might be older than you. I have been a reviewer of SEGA games for more than 15 years on the biggest French website, by the way. I know quite well how things unfolded, with for example Valkyria Chronicles starting as an Xbox 360 game before it strangely became a PS3 exclusive.
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I'm 52 so you must be ancient.
 
cireza said:
Who cares.

52 or not you aren't providing facts or any sources, you are just here to contradict people because you don't have anything better to do.

I made my case clear anyway, I don't have anything to add on the topic.
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You're the one that claimed your kids are older than me....
Where is your nuance?
Your argument is that one person is a fraud and everything they did was bad.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
You're the one that claimed your kids are older than me....
Where is your nuance?
Your argument is that one person is a fraud and everything they did was bad.
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You are the one talking about my kids. Again : who cares ?

Where are your links, sources, facts or personal experience to backup anything you say ? You don't have any.
 
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cireza said:
You are ignorant that's your problem. You have zero insight on what happened at SEGA for the last 30 years, unlike me.



segabits.com

NetEase to Close Nagoshi Studio Amid Major Cuts

Nearly three years have passed since Toshihiro Nagoshi departed SEGA and Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio to e…
segabits.com segabits.com
Not a single game made at Netease.
As soon as this guy got deciding power, it became a shitfest. SEGA were right to fire him.

Virtua Racing and Fighter are mainly the work of Yu Suzuki, who was the director.
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Shame, Nagoshi made some great games back in the day.

M

Thread 'The Toshihiro Nagoshi Appreciation Thread'

In this thread, we give love to one of the greatest people in the video gaming industry and the most brilliant person working at Sega (pffft who the **** is Yu Suzuki).
Nagoshi_toshihiro.jpg

Because without him, we wouldn't have...

1074679193.jpg
daytona2_a.gif

DAAAAAYTOOOOOOOOOOOONAAAAAAAAAAAA USA and Daytona USA 2

02.jpg

Spikeout...

Anyway, Sega's output the last couple of years and their lineup are amazing.

If this is down to him leaving then good riddance
 
ecosse_011172 said:
So, is a long history of playing Sega games "personal experience" or does only yours count?

Out of interest, how many of the Yakuza games have you played?
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Playing games is fine, understanding what is happening in the company is something else.

How active were you during the PS360 period ? I was following SEGA news on a daily basis and writing reviews of games sent by SEGA. The big picture of what was happening in Japan was very obvious, Nagoshi had a TON of power.

I played at least 4 of them (0 1 2 3) and reviewed 2 (0 1). Then I said I didn't want to review this series anymore. There were more passionate people on the site about this series, it was better in their hands. I totally quit reviewing games after 15 years and maybe 150 reviews.
 
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cireza said:
Playing games is fine, understanding what is happening in the company is something else.

How active were you during the PS360 period ? I was following SEGA news on a daily basis and writing reviews of games sent by SEGA. The big picture of what was happening in Japan was very obvious, Nagoshi had a TON of power.

I played at least 4 of them (0 1 2 3) and reviewed 2 (0 1). Then I said I didn't want to review this series anymore. There were more passionate people on the site about this series, it was better in their hands. I totally quit reviewing games after 15 years and maybe 150 reviews.
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Sounds like you're the biggest SEGA expert on the planet, your nuanced expert take is that one dude is responsible for everything bad in the company and nothing good (because you ignore the good stuff).
Thanks for the education.
 
I am amazed there's even a debate.

Actual Sega, even with the Index Corporation buyout and rebuilding Atlus and having Vanilla ware associated to the later, manages to issue 2/3 games each year, 4 at best.

Old Sega had at least 8/10 games each year and could single handly nurture their home consoles, and in pretty much any genre, be it JRPG (Shining Force, Phantasy Star, Story of Thor, Lands talker, Skies of Arcadia), racing (Virtua Racing, Sega Rally, Sega GT, Ferrari F355, Metropolis Street Racer, Daytona USA), beat them up (Golden Axe, Streets of Rage), platform (Sonic, Ristar, Dynamyte Headdy), arcade (Gunstar Heroes, Zombie Revenge), gun games (House of Dead, Confidential Mission), fighting (Virtua Fighter), sports (Virtua Tennis, 2K series), puzzle (Puyo Puyo, Columns, Dr Robotnik Mean Bean Machine), groundbreaking 3D games (Shenmue 1 and 2), adventure (Ecco the Dolphin) etc etc

Today they are good but outside the Atlus mold for churning out Persona/SMT/Metaphor , the Yakuza/Judgements series and some Sonic stuff, they are barren. Now, there's a new VF coming, Stranger in Heaven and this new Shinobi coming look all great, but they are still a long way to compete with the past.
 
Old Sega of course, and it's not even close.

They're doing a bit better now than the 2010s imo, but old Sega had a better slate of IP actually competitive with Nintendo in areas, along with absolutely stellar arcade game output that they would port to their own systems.

Even their failure starting with the Saturn had some cool gems, and the Dreamcast for its short period had a better first 2 years than most consoles at all.
 
I was around and remember very well seeing Sonic the Hedgehog on a Mega Drive for the 1st time. It was a moment I'll never forget. Sega were fighting hard against Nintendo and were slowly getting the better of them! Sega were a force to be reckoned with and were huge in the early to mid 90's, and the Sega of today will NEVER amount to what Sega were like when they were making brilliant consoles, amazing console games and even pumping out amazing arcade games. At their peak (in the console days) they were able to rival Nintendo in terms of quality of games...
 
MacReady13 said:
Sega of today will NEVER amount to what Sega were like when they were making brilliant consoles, amazing console games and even pumping out amazing arcade games.
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Making consoles is the only real advantage of old Sega, although their consoles have positive and negative points. We can only wait a few months, who knows what the future holds for us, right?
 
Sega of Japan's output on the genesis was amazing. Even manage to port some capcom games. I think after the greatness that was Shinobi 3, I didn't like much after (especially most of what Sega of America put out). Never owned a Saturn and I had mixed feelings about their Dreamcast output. I mean I use to be into the Yakuza games, but they changed into something I didn't like. I'm looking forward to the next Alien Isolation game, and the new Shinobi game but they ain't exactly in house.
 
I like old Sega because I am old.
It's like music - that your preference is stuck with what you grew up with, perhaps?
So I guess in that sense, I'm not surprised young people like new Sega than old Sega.
In retrospect, yes Sega failed HARD on business side - but for someone like me, if Sega doesn't fuck it up somehow - they are not Sega to begin with.
It's that quirk which you go like "why did you do that to begin with" - combined with absolutely mind-blowing (for that time) games.

So these days - Sega definitely takes very little risk in comparison. Feels like they lost their backbone...
And yes, their backbone IMHO was being a platform holder and the most technically advanced developer for that platform which they designed.... and they took a lot of risk (and bombed many, including their platform)
 
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