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[Alexios]

All of them were pretty sweet, each for its time, but of course the last couple are the closest to modern sensibilities, if not pioneered some of those, while still having a treasure trove of worthy exclusives each, often newly discovered to this day for many of us thanks to fan translations, leaks & such.​

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Dreamcast was a great system in a lot of ways but the controller was awful, let's just be real about it.

Only the d-pad was awful (well, on par with the other companies' so a huge downgrade from Saturn). Hall effect stick and hall effect full analog triggers = win. Single stick didn't matter until its death (folks forget it barely did anything even in hyped games like GTAIII, MGS2 & 3). They did fuck it up when it could have been an upgrade of the Saturn 3D pad but not to the extent most say/compared to the competition. Had the system lived it could have a dual analog controller overtake over time as it did on the PlayStation where unlike the Saturn the upgrade became the standard anyway

Mouse and keyboard and online > dual analog for FPS of the sort though. Pioneered where it counted making that capability standard (but in the end died fast so didn't get as many games as it could have had with such features). Mkb on console is still hyped when it appears 2+ decades later, lol. Games did dual stick since it existed but sucked at it (Alien Resurrection PS, Gungriffon PS2). With abxy move/stick look/dpad actions, MDK2, Outtrigger etc. play the same. Lock on like Maken X/Prime/Zelda was best for the gen (still ace). Every genre was 100% viable on DC's pad even after it died:

It could do every genre PS2 and Xbox did even though during the PSP's lifetime twin sticks were more standardised when during DC's lifetime dual analog was still more often a miss than a hit, no matter how some pretend (lie) this or that one game where it was somewhat workable was the norm. Edit: TimeSplitters games just felt/played better using the N64 single pad GE style controls anyway. Move and turn on the left stick. With aim assist it felt like a grounded third person action game character in first person rather than generic, floaty and badly tuned gamepad FPS controls of this sort:
​

 

[diffusionx]

Only the d-pad was awful (well, on par with the other companies' so a huge downgrade from Saturn). Hall effect stick and hall effect full analog triggers = win. Single stick didn't matter until its death (folks forget it barely did anything on PS2 in hyped games like GTAIII and later). They did fuck it up when it could have been an upgrade on the Saturn 3D pad but not to the extent most say/compared to the competition. Had the system lived it could have a dual analog controller overtake over time as it did on the original PlayStation where unlike the Saturn the upgrade became the standard

This is false and total nonsense. The lack of a second stick was absolutely a problem especially since the system was powerful enough to get ports of games like Unreal Tournament, and there were other action games that could use it. I had a ps2 at launch and played timesplitters on it so you're just making shit up. Nintendo understood right at the jump that a 3D console with a controller for 3D games needed some form of camera control hence the yellow buttons. This was in 1996. That got iterated into a second stick for the PSX controller but for some reason Sega ignored that for a controller that came out years later. Totally bizarre and even more bizarre that people are defending it decades later.

Of course, there was also a number of games on PSX that did stuff like using the R1/L1 buttons for camera controls because not everyone had an analog controller, but oh wait Dreamcast didn't have those buttons either.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Dreamcast was a great system in a lot of ways but the controller was awful, let's just be real about it.

Using GD ROM 12x was a mistake very noisy, they should have made a 2GB or 3GB GD ROM but then we run into another problem, the more data the more expensive the average game becomes.

no digital audio output, the modem already existed for Saturn as experimental technology, they should have waited before incorporating the technology, it's like the knect on the xbox one. The vmu with only 128kb, there are many design errors in the Dreamcast project success of the platform was impossible.

Edit: Even Golden Eye uses two analog sticks, I understand why Nintendo opted for the C button but in Sega's case they made this mistake because of the VMU.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Genesis by a mile for me.

 

[navii]

On Saturn it felt like I was playing compromised games, like those people who drive Mazda's but tell themselves they are as good as BMW (I drive a mazda and it's amazing, but it's no BMW). On Dreamcast it felt like I was playing polished games. So I choose Dreamcast.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Saturn for me. Got it at launch and just had great memories. Dreamcast is a close 2nd but I think the Saturn's library is a bit more varied. And there's a ton of games receiving translations that is only widening it.

 

[cireza]

they should have made a 2GB or 3GB GD ROM but then we run into another problem

You are just totally incapable of putting things back in context, are you ? Why not put blurays in the Dreamcast, huh ? PROBLEM SOLVED !

games like Unreal Tournament

FPS are perfectly playable on the Dreamcast controller. For the time, moving with the 4 face buttons was perfectly fine.

 

[BoxFresh123]

Had a hand me down MegaDrive. Shit was

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

every time i want to say its the dreamcast, something stops me...

but... nah its the dreamcast

 

[diffusionx]

FPS are perfectly playable on the Dreamcast controller. For the time, moving with the 4 face buttons was perfectly fine.

It wasn't fine even then, we had better options, as I laid out.

Also ironic your other point in that post was about someone lacking context.

 

[Plies]

GD-Roms were good because developers had to get more creative with limited space..

Nah , but seriously, if the Dreamcast lasted more than two years, we would've seen a Pro version with a DVD drive.

There was no way around it .

 

[diffusionx]

GD-Roms were good because developers had to get more creative with limited space..

Nah , but seriously, if the Dreamcast lasted more than two years, we would've seen a Pro version with a DVD drive.

There was no way around it .

Maybe as a limited release niche thing like the Panasonic Q but not as a full fledged console release. And it would only have played DVD movies.

 

[Plies]

Maybe as a limited release niche thing like the Panasonic Q but not as a full fledged console release. And it would only have played DVD movies.

In order to get a port of something like San Andreas, you'd need more than a gd-rom and Sega knew it.

 

[diffusionx]

In order to get a port of something like San Andreas, you'd need more than a gd-rom and Sega knew it.

Once you make that decision there's no going back. You can't release a Dreamcast game that can't be played on Dreamcast.

 

[Celcius]

Y'all are crazy, the dreamcast controller was amazing and I loved the dpad. I played TONS of fighting games on it.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

GD-Roms were good because developers had to get more creative with limited space..

Nah , but seriously, if the Dreamcast lasted more than two years, we would've seen a Pro version with a DVD drive.

There was no way around it .

You are just totally incapable of putting things back in context, are you ? Why not put blurays in the Dreamcast, huh ? PROBLEM SOLVED !

because the size of the media was never the issue, as I said the unit makes a lot of noise.
N64 was released in August 1996 and by March 1997 had sold 5.8 million units, by March 1998 it had sold 15 million units (Dreamcast was revealed on May 21, 1998 in Tokyo) this means that the N64 outsold the Dreamcast while both remained on the market until 2001. The N64 is a cartridge console.

 

[Plies]

because the size of the media was never the issue, as I said the unit makes a lot of noise.
N64 was released in August 1996 and by March 1997 had sold 5.8 million units, by March 1998 it had sold 15 million units (Dreamcast was revealed on May 21, 1998 in Tokyo) this means that the N64 outsold the Dreamcast while both remained on the market until 2001. The N64 is a cartridge console.

The N64 was a lot cheaper, though.
Like, by $100 per unit cheaper.

 

[Gambit2483]

Y'all are crazy, the dreamcast controller was amazing and I loved the dpad. I played TONS of fighting games on it.

The Dreamcast fighting games shit all over the Genesis fighting games. Maybe those saying Genesis was better simply weren't fighting game fans...

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

The N64 was a lot cheaper, though.
Like, by $100 per unit cheaper.

 

[cireza]

It wasn't fine even then, we had better options, as I laid out.

Also ironic your other point in that post was about someone lacking context.

I played hundreds of hours of Q3 on DC. You can straffe jump pretty well with that controller. I even completed the game in Nightmare.

 

[Plies]

The Dreamcast also had a higher attach ratio over the N64, which was 9:1 IIRC.

 

[cartman414]

On Saturn it felt like I was playing compromised games, like those people who drive Mazda's but tell themselves they are as good as BMW (I drive a mazda and it's amazing, but it's no BMW). On Dreamcast it felt like I was playing polished games. So I choose Dreamcast.

Fair, if you're only talking about 3d games, but it crushed it when it came to 2d.

 

[xpresstuning]

For the Sega Saturn, I can name you 50 great (8.0/10) to excellent games (10/10), that transcend time, which are either fully exclusive or vastly superior to any other version for various reasons (additional exclusive content, tweaks, etc.). If the version in question is a non-issue (ex. you're playing on the Sega Saturn for the novelty and because it was originally released there, even though there's an arguably better version on other machines) then, i can name you 80.

Now do the same for any other console that has ever existed. 95% of them have their libraries spread on every conceivable electronic device. There's a benefit to this obviously (more consumer awareness and more people to talk with about). But if we're discussing a truly great machine, then one of my personal criteria is how many exclusive experiences it holds. How many video games does it hold for the machine in question to be worth trying out. Regardless of age.

The Sega Saturn is a unique bubble of 90s Japan that cannot be replicated anywhere else. It is a machine with a library worth experiencing, and there will never ever be anything like it again. It is a holy grail of retro collectability, with original video games that not only hold their resellable value, but also increase over time (ex. if you're buying Panzer Dragoon Saga for 1.000$ today, you can be sure it'll accrue value and you can sell it for a higher price later).

Sega's best console is the Sega Saturn. Its library of great games dwarfs the Sega Genesis and Dreamcast combined. And most of them are exclusive.

 

[Toots]

Megadrive with soleil, the best version of Aladdin, Sonic 3 and knuckles, shining force, etc is my most cherished (and the first console i convinced my parents to buy).

Objectively speaking tho, the Dreamcast with mindblowingly beautiful and innovative games like soul calibur, Sonic Adventure, crazy taxi, or Shenmue, and no piracy protection enabling you to play any game released in any country without modding your console, is the best console, from any manufacturer.

 

[PeteBull]

For the Sega Saturn, I can name you 50 great (8.0/10) to excellent games (10/10), that transcend time, which are either fully exclusive or vastly superior to any other version for various reasons (additional exclusive content, tweaks, etc.). If the version in question is a non-issue (ex. you're playing on the Sega Saturn for the novelty and because it was originally released there, even though there's an arguably better version on other machines) then, i can name you 80.

Now do the same for any other console that has ever existed. 95% of them have their libraries spread on every conceivable electronic device. There's a benefit to this obviously (more consumer awareness and more people to talk with about). But if we're discussing a truly great machine, then one of my personal criteria is how many exclusive experiences it holds. How many video games does it hold for the machine in question to be worth trying out. Regardless of age.

The Sega Saturn is a unique bubble of 90s Japan that cannot be replicated anywhere else. It is a machine with a library worth experiencing, and there will never ever be anything like it again. It is a holy grail of retro collectability, with original video games that not only hold their resellable value, but also increase over time (ex. if you're buying Panzer Dragoon Saga for 1.000$ today, you can be sure it'll accrue value and you can sell it for a higher price later).

Sega's best console is the Sega Saturn. Its library of great games dwarfs the Sega Genesis and Dreamcast combined. And most of them are exclusive.

Name those 50 games then, bro, i wanna see ur stamp of quality aproval. And Lets be realistic and name those top50 games considering it has to be outside of japan release.
Fun facts about sega saturn is:
Units sold:

Worldwide: 9.26 million Japan: 5.75 million United States: 1.8 million Europe: 1 million Elsewhere: 530,000

TLDR- It was non existent outside of japan, and outside of japan it launched mid 1995 only to be discountinued in 1998 so roughly after 3 fricken years, think xbox series launches like now in 2020 and is discontinued in 2023 so about 2 years ago already

We can even see what its bestselling game was, amazing one but look at sales number: 1,7m copies for VF2, thats worldwide(but obviously mostly japan). Console was niche af.

What saturn was amazing at is bringing arcade to ur home, back then Sega was if not top then at least one of top makers of best quality arcade games, and it shows, when u had saturn it fellt like u owned not whole but at least big chunk of ur neighbourhood arcade saloon and it was glorious ofc.

I will concede it was best sega console in japan only, since even according to wiki:

List of Sega Saturn games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are 1028 games on this list not including non-game software and compilations of Saturn games. 775 of those games were released as Japan-only exclusives, which makes up 75% of the list.

So if u are japanese/lived in japan i fully understand u ofc, otherwise we gotta agree to disagree unfortunately.

 

[Mayar]

Megadrive - if we take into account the commercial success and the console that secured Sega's place on the market.
Dreamcast - if you look at it from the point of view that the console was ahead of its time and came out in an extremely unfortunate window when Sega had already started having big financial problems.

 

[GymWolf]

Megadrive maybe? The only one i was kinda sad to not own.

All the sega console i owned were pretty mid, ngl.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Objectively I know Genesis and Dreamcast are better, but man Sega CD is the one I have the most nostalgia for. It felt like I was playing something from the future.

The issue with the Sega CD was that it's potential was never really taken to it's full capability, Sega never bothered, imagine having games like Streets of Rage, Turtles in Time, with red-book audio, and sprite scaling!

 

[Cryio]

In 1998, at 5 year old, my mom brought home, in Europe, a Sega Mega Drive. Also known as Genesis. Given this was Europe in the 90s, the console was, of course, just a bootleg NES.

So I played quite a lot of NES games and zero Sega Master/Genesis games.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Megadrive was an incredible generational leap, with plenty of popular arcade machine 1:1 ports.

 

[RoboFu]

Sega cd had some great games but was also had heavily underutilized graphic features at the same time.

 

[GreatnessRD]

Genesis clear everything. Dreamcast could've been, but they didn't see the vision or believe.

 

[seething left]

My head says Mega Drive/Genesis. But my heart says Game Gear. So many hours spent in the bathtub playing Deep Duck Trouble and Magical Puzzle Popils.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

The Dreamcast also had a higher attach ratio over the N64, which was 9:1 IIRC.

Obviously this doesn't mean anything. If you want a fair metric, let's compare how many Dreamcast games have sold over 1 million copies and how many N64 games have sold over 1 million copies. (To make it fair, I'll make a cut by accepting only games from 1999, 2000, and 2001 on the N64).

Dreamcast has 6 games that sold over 1 million copies, 1 that sold over 2 million copies
N64 has 10 games that sold over 1 million copies, 12 that sold over 2 million copies

You could argue that the N64 already had an installed base of 15 million while the Dreamcast was building its base, but that doesn't mean anything except that people preferred to buy N64 and N64 games than Dreamcast and Dreamcast games when both were on the market.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Dreamcast had so many good games still very much playable today (which I do). I can't say the same about my Genesis. Maybe it's about the type of games I like.

 

[diffusionx]

Name those 50 games then, bro, i wanna see ur stamp of quality aproval. And Lets be realistic and name those top50 games considering it has to be outside of japan release.
Fun facts about sega saturn is:
Units sold:

Worldwide: 9.26 million Japan: 5.75 million United States: 1.8 million Europe: 1 million Elsewhere: 530,000

TLDR- It was non existent outside of japan, and outside of japan it launched mid 1995 only to be discountinued in 1998 so roughly after 3 fricken years, think xbox series launches like now in 2020 and is discontinued in 2023 so about 2 years ago already

We can even see what its bestselling game was, amazing one but look at sales number: 1,7m copies for VF2, thats worldwide(but obviously mostly japan). Console was niche af.

What saturn was amazing at is bringing arcade to ur home, back then Sega was if not top then at least one of top makers of best quality arcade games, and it shows, when u had saturn it fellt like u owned not whole but at least big chunk of ur neighbourhood arcade saloon and it was glorious ofc.

I will concede it was best sega console in japan only, since even according to wiki:

List of Sega Saturn games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So if u are japanese/lived in japan i fully understand u ofc, otherwise we gotta agree to disagree unfortunately.

It's impossible to be a Saturn enjoyer and not get heavily involved in the import games. Luckily for many of the games you didn't need to know the language to play. Stuff like shoot em ups, fighters, etc. Not RPGs.

I played hundreds of hours of Q3 on DC. You can straffe jump pretty well with that controller. I even completed the game in Nightmare.

once again you miss the point but I am not going to explain it again.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I have to admit I'm impressed by the amount of positive mentions of the Dreamcast here. The Sega Genesis was incredible, but I can't see a single good thing about the Dreamcast, there's nothing there that doesn't have a better equivalent on another system even Saturn.

 

[ROJM]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! 65 Years of SEGA goodness as the company we know as SEGA was founded on this very day in june, 1960.

 

[Parazels]

The Sega Saturn is a unique bubble of 90s Japan that cannot be replicated anywhere else. It is a machine with a library worth experiencing, and there will never ever be anything like it again.

How about Nintendo Switch?

 

[cireza]

once again you miss the point but I am not going to explain it again.

The point that the controller was not fine, while it was absolutely fine for people who actually used it back then ? Don't explain it again, no need.

I can't see a single good thing about the Dreamcast

Obviously, you need to have actually experienced this period to understand how gigantic the jump was when we moved on to the Dreamcast.

 

[Gambit2483]

I have to admit I'm impressed by the amount of positive mentions of the Dreamcast here. The Sega Genesis was incredible, but I can't see a single good thing about the Dreamcast, there's nothing there that doesn't have a better equivalent on another system even Saturn.

Based on your tag I now understand why you would post something like this.

 

[darth.shrimp]

The one that had Guardian Heroes, d'uh.

 

[xpresstuning]

Name those 50 games then, bro, i wanna see ur stamp of quality aproval. And Lets be realistic and name those top50 games considering it has to be outside of japan release.
Fun facts about sega saturn is:
Units sold:

Worldwide: 9.26 million Japan: 5.75 million United States: 1.8 million Europe: 1 million Elsewhere: 530,000

TLDR- It was non existent outside of japan, and outside of japan it launched mid 1995 only to be discountinued in 1998 so roughly after 3 fricken years, think xbox series launches like now in 2020 and is discontinued in 2023 so about 2 years ago already

We can even see what its bestselling game was, amazing one but look at sales number: 1,7m copies for VF2, thats worldwide(but obviously mostly japan). Console was niche af.

What saturn was amazing at is bringing arcade to ur home, back then Sega was if not top then at least one of top makers of best quality arcade games, and it shows, when u had saturn it fellt like u owned not whole but at least big chunk of ur neighbourhood arcade saloon and it was glorious ofc.

I will concede it was best sega console in japan only, since even according to wiki:

List of Sega Saturn games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So if u are japanese/lived in japan i fully understand u ofc, otherwise we gotta agree to disagree unfortunately.

Since you asked nicely, i'll compile this list. I don't care about whatever (english, japanese, etc.); Thing is, i never played these retro-machines before 2006. I started with the Sega Saturn in '08.

1. Games i either like or love, they're best played on Saturn for one reason or another (even arcade ports have exclusive content/tweaks that flesh them out):

• Dragon Force
• Dragon Force II: Kamisarishi Daichi ni (translation patch)
• Shining Force III Scenario 1, 2 and 3 (translation patch)
• Shining the Holy Ark
• Panzer Dragoon ( hmmm.. yeah, i'll add it here. The "remake" isn't good. And although Zwei is significantly superior, you gotta play this to appreciate Zwei. Also, it's a good game with a brilliant soundtrack)
• Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei
• Panzer Dragoon Saga
• Princess Crown (translation patch)
• Saturn Bomberman
• Blast Wind (translation patch)
• Silhouette Mirage (JP import translated to english, the PSX version is pure SHIT - avoid)
• Bulk Slash
• Vandal Hearts: Ushinawareta Kodai Bunmei (translation patch)
• Detana TwinBee Yahho! Deluxe Pack
• Shienryu
• Cotton 2: Magical Night Dreams (translation patch)
• Dark Savior
• Astal (JP import > US version sucks)
• Cyberbots: Full Metal Madness
• Waku Waku Puyo Puyo Dungeon
• Sakura Wars I & II (only versions that are translated to english)
• Policenauts (translation available)
• Fighters MegaMix
• Keiou Yuugekitai: Katsugeki-hen (Keio Flying Squadron 2 only released in PAL at 50hz, which is ass)
• Arcana Strikes (translation patch)
• Sexy Parodius
• Assault Suit Leynos 2 (Japan, completely playable)
• Shippuu Mahou Daisakusen: Kingdom-Grandprix (English Patched)
• Street Fighter Zero 3 (now ask why it's the best version to this day)
• Soukyugurentai
• Layer Section (Galactic Attack)
• Hyper Duel
• Prikura Daisakusen
• Darius Gaiden
• Astra Superstars
• Twinkle Star Sprites
• The Legend of Oasis
• Game Tengoku: The Game Paradise!

2. RPGs awaiting translations because they're brilliant (i mean 10/10, absolutely brilliant):

• Wachenröder (Japan)
• Terra Phantastica (Japan)
• Tengai Makyou: The Fourth Apocalypse (Japan)

3. Games that i don't like, but other people love dearly:

• Burning Rangers
• Linkle Liver Story (english patched)
• Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean
• Magic Knight Rayearth
• Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition
• Gungriffon I & II (II has a translation patch)
• Stellar Assault SS (translation patch)
• Sega Rally Championship Plus Netlink Edition
• Deep Fear
• Shinrei Jutatsushi Taromaru
• Clockwork Knight 2
• Steamgear Mash
• Tryrush Deppy

4. Games that may have a better version elsewhere, but you say fuck it because they're fine on the Sega Saturn and you wanna play/collect the originals:

• Radiant Silvergun
• Batsugun
• Battle Garegga
• Lunar: Silver Star Story (English Patched)
• Lunar: Eternal Blue (English Patched)
• Guardian Heroes
• Strikers 1945 II
• Nights into Dreams ...
• Grandia (translated)
• Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (English Patched)
• Virtua Fighters 2
• Elevator Action Returns
• Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter
• Sengoku Blade
• Vampire Savior

Personal recommendations to get started on its library:

1. The entire Panzer Dragoon series (they're interconnected and with proper context you'll appreciate Saga that much more)
2. Dragon Force (insta-get the sequel if you love this)
3. Nights into Dreams ... (yeah, yeah, it has a HD port, i don't care)
4. Astra SuperStars (crazy ass fighting game)
5. Shining Force III Scenario 1 (insta-get the others if you love this)
6. Layer Section (entry level shump that is really fucking good)
7. Cotton 2: Magical Night Dreams (and on the other hard, we have a weird cute 'em up shmup that is unique and really fucking good)
8. Keiou Yuugekitai: Katsugeki-hen (If you can play the PAL version at 60hz through some type a switch, get it, if not the JP import is a must)
9. Saturn Bomberman (this game is going to surprise you)
10. Bulk Slash (just a weird ass fucking amazing japanese anime mech game)

How about Nintendo Switch?

Well, the Switch 2 is backwards compatible and i can easily bet you my balls most of its releases will get re-releases.

Switch wins its generation by a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge fucking mile though.