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[YoshiStrife]

The explanations are definitely terrible.

They explain everything in poor text without showing examples, then throw you straight into the minigame expecting that you understood all that. It's trial and error for things like PTA and Rebuttal Showdown. When you also don't know which truth bullet to use, it also messes things up in games like Rebuttal, too.

Not all minigames are bad, but some definitely are, and the explanations don't do any favours. I can overlook them, though, because it's a visual novel, and the focus has to be on an exceptional plot - which is what DR has.

 

[GuardianE]

The game overall, yes. Not the minigame itself, though. Bad explanations for mechanics is a different complaint than bad mechanics

Logic Dive was very average with some moments it stood out. Calling that shut just sounds stupid to me.

Logic dive was terrible. And not from a mechanic perspective. It didn't make any goddamn sense.

With each minigame, you can see how the action correlates to the actual connections/debate in the trial. Hangman's Gambit, Nonstop Debate, Panic Talk, etc. all actually simulate forming words in your head, dueling someone with words, etc. For Logic Dive, you make logical connections through... a snowboarding minigame? It's quite a stretch.

 

[LX_Theo]

Logic dive was terrible. And not from a mechanic perspective. It didn't make any goddamn sense.

With each minigame, you can see how the game relates to the actual connections/debate being made. Hangman's Gambit, Nonstop Debate, Panic Talk, etc. etc. You logically make connections through... a snowboarding minigame? It's quite a stretch.

Which is, again, a different complaint than the minigame being shit.

Sure, it took the idea of following a logical line of reasoning to a conclusion and stretched it a bit, but it wasn't THAT bad.

 

[GuardianE]

Which is, again, a different complaint than the minigame being shit.

Sure, it took the idea of following a logical line of reasoning to a conclusion and stretched it a bit, but it wasn't THAT bad.

It's not actually. If the premise is faulty for the inclusion of the minigame, then I think it's inherently terrible.

This is really the only negative for DR2, when compared to DR1, but it is an unmistakeable downgrade for me.

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

It's not actually. If the premise is faulty for the inclusion of the minigame, then I think it's inherently terrible.

This is really the only negative for DR2, when compared to DR1, but it is an unmistakeable downgrade for me.

You think Improved Hangman's Gambit is better than it's DR1 counter-part?

 

[GuardianE]

You think Improved Hangman's Gambit is better than it's DR1 counter-part?

No, I meant the function of the minigames in general.

Like, I think the inclusion of the dueling argument minigame is fantastic. I think it's a great addition in principle, but I don't know if it was all that well executed.

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

No, I meant the function of the minigames in general.

Like, I think the inclusion of the dueling argument minigame. I think it's a great addition in principle, but I don't know if it was all that well executed.

I see. The way you phrased made it seem like your only issue with DR2 compared to DR1 was Logic Dive. My mistake.

I thought that Logic Dive was alright. It wasn't a great mini game, but it wasn't terrible either. That makes it okay in my book.

Can't say the same for Hangman. Not only do you do it more often than logic dive, but it becomes really cheap in the later cases. So yeah, fuck "Improved" Hangman's Gambit.

 

[antibolo]

The more people saying the minigames are bad when their complaints are about the tutorials/explanations for them... The more I just don't get it. :/

No, that's a legitimate complaint. It's hard to enjoy the mini-games when the game can't be bothered to explain them in a reasonable fashion.

 

[Basileus777]

Logic drive is just utterly pointless filler.

 

[Zonic]

Part of the problem was that some of the mini-games just weren't explained very well. For example, a couple of people in here didn't get Rebuttal Showdown at first, & I don't blame them. It took me a while to fully understand it myself, but once I did, I didn't mind it. It's like GuardianE said, it's a cool idea, but the execution could've been better, not to mention the way it was explained.

 

[Tizoc]

Logic drive is just utterly pointless filler.

I liked it since it reminds me of the Bonus Stages in the Sonic games.

 

[MSMrRound]

Logic Dive was off in some ways, I agree...but it also helped me to relax at times, particularly after a couple of hair-tearing arguments that I had to do.

Rebuttal Showdown>PTA>Logic Dive>"Improved" Hangman

 

[antibolo]

I liked it since it reminds me of the Bonus Stages in the Sonic games.

It reminded me more of the slides in Super Mario Galaxy 2, due to the circular gravity.

 

[Chris R]

Logic drive is just utterly pointless filler.

I like Logic drive more than the rebuttal stuff. I always have to do the button x jam at least twice :\

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

Rebuttal Showdown>PTA>Logic Dive>"Improved" Hangman

I agree with this ranking.

 

[LX_Theo]

It's not actually. If the premise is faulty for the inclusion of the minigame, then I think it's inherently terrible.

This is really the only negative for DR2, when compared to DR1, but it is an unmistakeable downgrade for me.

That just sounds stupid to me, no offense. The premise is okay, and them simply stretching it is a horrible reason to deem it terrible.

No, that's a legitimate complaint. It's hard to enjoy the mini-games when the game can't be bothered to explain them in a reasonable fashion.

I feel as though you read that, but I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying. I'm saying there's a difference between a minigame being bad and its explanation being bad. People saying the minigame was bad because they explained it badly make no logical sense.

For example... If someone notices something on the boxart, and guesses a character's role in the game early because of it, they will enjoy the game's story less because it became more predictable to them. This is a fault with the boxart, not the story.

 

[Viridian6]

Logic Dive was off in some ways, I agree...but it also helped me to relax at times, particularly after a couple of hair-tearing arguments that I had to do.

Rebuttal Showdown>PTA>Logic Dive>"Improved" Hangman

I'm actually beginning to like Hangman... At any rate it's a better mini-game than the brainless PTA.

On Chapter 4 now.

 

[GuardianE]

That just sounds stupid to me, no offense. The premise is okay, and them simply stretching it is a horrible reason to deem it terrible.

It's not just a little stretch. It's absolutely irrelevant. I was being generous by calling it a stretch. The fact that the other minigames make sense within the context just highlights how out of place Logic Dive really is.

I personally think that your defense of the minigames is silly, no offense. They're hardly the strong point of the game, and are absolutely a detriment in places, whether it is due to the tutorials or not. You might take issue with me calling it "terrible", but Logic Dive is not a good minigame to me. It seems incredibly lazy. And this is coming from someone who quickly figured out that I need to read the actual directions for the minigames. I failed maybe one of them, and I played through the whole thing on Mean the first time through.

Whether it's the minigames or the tutorials, the takeaway is that there is a flaw here that should be remedied.

 

[PK Gaming]

Logic Dive was off in some ways, I agree...but it also helped me to relax at times, particularly after a couple of hair-tearing arguments that I had to do.

Rebuttal Showdown>PTA>Logic Dive>"Improved" Hangman

Mostly agree, but i'd move PTA down behind Logic Dive. I hate how they dumbed it down.

Where's my goddamn rhythm game! I want to dance to the beat.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

anyone else think the motives this time werent nearly as good as in the first game? They seemed a lot more liking forcing a murder, whereas DR1 they all just sort of nudged it

 

[FluxWaveZ]

anyone else think the motives this time werent nearly as good as in the first game?

You should discuss this in the spoiler thread, or at least spoiler some of the future game implications. But yes, I agree.

 

[LX_Theo]

It's not just a little stretch. It's absolutely irrelevant. I was being generous by calling it a stretch. The fact that the other minigames make sense within the context just highlights how out of place Logic Dive really is.

I personally think that your defense of the minigames is silly, no offense. They're hardly the strong point of the game, and are absolutely a detriment in places, whether it is due to the tutorials or not. You might take issue with me calling it "terrible", but Logic Dive is not a good minigame to me. It seems incredibly lazy. And this is coming from someone who quickly figured out that I need to read the actual directions for the minigames. I failed maybe one of them, and I played through the whole thing on Mean the first time through.

Whether it's the minigames or the tutorials, the takeaway is that there is a flaw here that should be remedied.

No, its not absolutely irrelevant. Actually counter what I said in regards to its relevancy if you're just going to keep spouting off whatever you want.

No, its not silly. A minigame isn't its explanation. I played through on Mean as well. Logic dive was average with some high moments in terms of fun. Relevancy is fine, but not bad. Its as relevant as PTA/Bullet Time. Your complaints do not strike me as complaints. Besides the bad explanation (which is not the minigame), they boil down to the "relevancy" making it bad (despite you massively overstating the issue there) and statements that its simply bad. I don't really even see an argument here other than a person yelling about how its bad. And FYI, my argument isn't solely for Logic Dive. Rebuttal Showdown has a lot of people commenting on how "bad" it is with the bad explanation being the core of their issue with it. There are so many people confusing the two, its just gotten stupid.

Yes, there is an issue. People wouldn't have the complaints otherwise. I'm not even saying the minigames are good, only that the core of the complaints I've been seeing have been bad and just direct blame where it shouldn't be.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

You should discuss this in the spoiler thread, or at least spoiler some of the future game implications. But yes, I agree.

sorry, im just looking for general agree or not, since I havent beaten DR2 yet (just finished chapter5) so I'm avoiding the spoiler thread

 

[properpropaganda]

still missing the event after

Spoiler

the three who look back.

anyone know how to obtain it?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

still missing the event after

Spoiler

the three who look back.

anyone know how to obtain it?

I don't remember the order how they appear on the list but these are the missable scenes:

Spoiler

Chapter 1: Soda+Teruteru+Peko coconut scene at the beach. Have Replica Sword and talk to Soda after the first breakfast.
Chapter 1: Girls only meeting scene. Have An An Aan and talk to Mahiru before just before second breakfast.
Chapter 2: Hiyoko and Mahiru shower scene. Have Man's Nut and talk to Mahiru after first breakfast (tho I remember it being automatic but that's what they guide says!)
Chapter 3: Ibuki+Hiyoko+Chiaki music scene. Have Toy Camera and talk to Hiyoko right before second breakfast.
Chapter 3: Nekomaru massage scene. Have R/C 4WD Battler Taro and talk to Soda right after the scene where Nekomaru and Akane are talking about ''IT''.
Chapter 3: Fireworks+yukatas scene. Have Summer Festival Tree and talk to Ibuki right before second breakfast.

And there is a little bonus scene you can buy after finishing Danganronpa IF.

 

[MSMrRound]

still missing the event after

Spoiler

the three who look back.

anyone know how to obtain it?

Uhh...if it's the immediate one after that, just go and start Island Mode. You will get it soon.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Uhh...if it's the immediate one after that, just go and start Island Mode. You will get it soon.

Ohhhh. There's the

Spoiler

Usami vs Monokuma 2

. Forgot about that lol.

 

[galvenize]

I've decided, this is to me the best ost from all of Dangan Ronpa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9R5mpVVuQ8
So funky.

 

[Isotope]

I'm not sure how they did it, but Chapter Six has managed to out crazy Chapter Five to me.

 

[GuardianE]

No, its not absolutely irrelevant. Actually counter what I said in regards to its relevancy if you're just going to keep spouting off whatever you want.

No, its not silly. A minigame isn't its explanation. I played through on Mean as well. Logic dive was average with some high moments in terms of fun. Relevancy is fine, but not bad. Its as relevant as PTA/Bullet Time.

Sorry, I was away for a bit. Okay, sure. Let's look at your point.

Sure, it took the idea of following a logical line of reasoning to a conclusion and stretched it a bit, but it wasn't THAT bad.

I disagree with you. In the game, you're not following a line of logic like the name Logic Dive would suggest because one question/answer does not always flow into the next during the minigame. Really, you're connecting dots between pieces of logic and coming to a conclusion, and that = a snowboarding minigame?

The other minigames are all crafted in such a way to emulate the underlying task.

For Nonstop Debate, shooting down white noise (background noise) and firing off a point makes sense.
For Hangman's Gambit, you're jogging your memory through trial and error.
For Rebuttal Showdown, you're dueling with someone directly, hence sword imagery.
For Panic Attack, the other person won't listen to reason and you need to wear them down.

Your complaints do not strike me as complaints. Besides the bad explanation (which is not the minigame), they boil down to the "relevancy" making it bad (despite you massively overstating the issue there) and statements that its simply bad. I don't really even see an argument here other than a person yelling about how its bad.

The lack of relevancy is my argument. You disagree, and think I'm massively overstating it. Well, you're free to think that. It bothers me greatly.

A minigame isn't evaluated in isolation. The pieces of DanganRonpa aren't evaluated in bubbles. An RPG could have the greatest F-Zero racing minigame ever and it would still be terrible in implementation if it was hamfistedly shoehorned into the story. Relevance matters to me.

And who's yelling? You're the one who started slinging insults and being needlessly hostile because I called a minigame terrible. (and yes, I'm aware that you called my thought process stupid twice and not me stupid directly. That's little more than a veiled insult).

And FYI, my argument isn't solely for Logic Dive. Rebuttal Showdown has a lot of people commenting on how "bad" it is with the bad explanation being the core of their issue with it. There are so many people confusing the two, its just gotten stupid.

Yes, there is an issue. People wouldn't have the complaints otherwise. I'm not even saying the minigames are good, only that the core of the complaints I've been seeing have been bad and just direct blame where it shouldn't be.

Maybe people just think the minigames are bad, irrespective of the tutorials? I've actually read plenty of complaints directed at the tutorials themselves, so maybe you just haven't seen them.

 

[Busaiku]

Spoiler

Figured it'd be Peko based on the water.
Couldn't think of the motive, but that made itself clear enough.

Did not expect Fuyuhiko to die during the punishment too.
Isn't that against the rules or something.

EDIT -

Spoiler

Oh, guess not.

 

[MSMrRound]

I've decided, this is to me the best ost from all of Dangan Ronpa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9R5mpVVuQ8
So funky.

Got pretty tired of listening to it after doing School Mode and Island Mode.

Also, anyone who wants to view that video should really be careful of spoilers. Lots of related thumbnails at sidebar just waiting to spoil you silly.

It's Ms Monomi's Practice Lesson or Mr Monokuma's Practice Lesson (that was how it was localized) if you wanna check it out form the in-game OST list.

 

[LX_Theo]

Sorry, I was away for a bit. Okay, sure. Let's look at your point.



I disagree with you. In the game, you're not following a line of logic like the name Logic Dive would suggest because one question/answer does not always flow into the next during the minigame. Really, you're connecting dots between pieces of logic and coming to a conclusion, and that = a snowboarding minigame?

The other minigames are all crafted in such a way to emulate the underlying task.

For Nonstop Debate, shooting down white noise (background noise) and firing off a point makes sense.
For Hangman's Gambit, you're jogging your memory through trial and error.
For Rebuttal Showdown, you're dueling with someone directly, hence sword imagery.
For Panic Attack, the other person won't listen to reason and you need to wear them down.



The lack of relevancy is my argument. You disagree, and think I'm massively overstating it. Well, you're free to think that. It bothers me greatly.

A minigame isn't evaluated in isolation. The pieces of DanganRonpa aren't evaluated in bubbles. An RPG could have the greatest F-Zero racing minigame ever and it would still be terrible in implementation if it was hamfistedly shoehorned into the story. Relevance matters to me.

And who's yelling? You're the one who started slinging insults and being needlessly hostile because I called a minigame terrible. (and yes, I'm aware that you called my thought process stupid twice and not me stupid directly. That's little more than a veiled insult).



Maybe people just think the minigames are bad, irrespective of the tutorials? I've actually read plenty of complaints directed at the tutorials themselves, so maybe you just haven't seen them.

Sorry, but that was just bad.

It's not relevant because... What now? That it doesn't "flow" into each other as well as you want? Do you really think that disqualifies relevancy? Do you really think they changes the design, concepts, and intentions of the minigame? This is just getting annoying that you keep insisting it off of THAT.

If you really focused in the "yelling" part of that comment, then wow. I clearly was stating that you were rambling off a lot of statement that boiled down to "I'm right" rather than making a point.

 

[GuardianE]

Sorry, but that was just bad.

It's not relevant because... What now? That it doesn't "flow" into each other as well as you want? Do you really think that disqualifies relevancy? Do you really think they changes the design, concepts, and intentions of the minigame? This is just getting pathetic.

If you really focused in the "yelling" part of that comment, then wow. I clearly was stating that you were rambling off a lot of statement that boiled down to "I'm right" rather than making a point.

I'm tired of this. You continue to accuse me of ignoring points when you yourself are guilty of this.

What are you talking about? I'm looking at the minigame within the context of the overall game and trial proceedings. I've stated why I think that Logic Dive is the weakest of the games, and as a result I think it's disruptive rather than helpful to the pace of the case.

What do you mean "change the design, concepts, and intentions of the minigame"? It's pretty clear what the intent is, and it doesn't work for me.

What's your point? That Logic Dive isn't terrible? Yeah, we get it. You think that criticisms of the minigames are overstated. If all your rebuttals just boil down to dismissive insults, then we're done here.

 

[Busaiku]

Did NISA Ace Attorney this game?
Everyone's speaking English.

 

[GuardianE]

Did NISA Ace Attorney this game?
Everyone's speaking English.

You can change the voiceover language before starting the game.

 

[dakkumauji]

You can change the language before starting the game.

I think more along the lines of moving the setting of this game from Japan to America.

Which, is uh, hard to say. While there's that one line about it being in English, there's really no other mentions of locations or silly stuff like lets eat hamburgers!

 

[Moonlight]

Did NISA Ace Attorney this game?
Everyone's speaking English.

I don't really get what you mean, but there's a dub (and a JP audio track) and a lot of the references to Japanese pop culture have been localized to something more recognizable to western audiences.

 

[GuardianE]

I think more along the lines of moving the setting of this game from Japan to America.

Which, is uh, hard to say. While there's that one line about it being in English, there's really no other mentions of locations or silly stuff like lets eat hamburgers!

Ah, okay. Yeah, I don't think there were any specific references to America, were there?

In fact, I don't think there's ever a reference to the government... Just that there were key governmental figures.

 

[antibolo]

NISA's localization was kinda all over the place on this one. At one point they talk about "Benjamins" (ouch, that's very American-centric), but then at another point they talk about Japanese food I had never heard of, and using otaku terms like "tsundere". It's like they couldn't make their mind on what level of localization adaptation to use. It never got as bad as Ace Attorney though.

They were also very inconsistent on whether they would change the SI units to US units or not.

 

[LX_Theo]

I'm tired of this. You continue to accuse me of ignoring points when you yourself are guilty of this.

What are you talking about? I'm looking at the minigame within the context of the overall game and trial proceedings. I've stated why I think that Logic Dive is the weakest of the games, and as a result I think it's disruptive rather than helpful to the pace of the case.

What do you mean "change the design, concepts, and intentions of the minigame"? It's pretty clear what the intent is, and it doesn't work for me.

You're talking about relevancy. You state it doesn't follow the excessively blatant trait that makes it relevant... And because of that, it is disqualified because YOU think the questions in it don't flow as well as you want? Yeah, no. You not liking how well that intent is implemented doesn't change the relevancy. Especially when you're argument is so simple it could just as easily be manipulated onto any of the minigames.

All the minigames are basically stop and do this for a little bit. If you're argument has now shifted to pacing of the overall trial, you might as well throw all of them out except Nonstop Debate and Rebuttal Showdown.

Yeah, you think you're tired of this? Shit like this just gives me a headache trying to give insistent people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Labrys]

NISA's localization was kinda all over the place on this one. At one point they talk about "Benjamins" (ouch, that's very American-centric), but then at another point they talk about Japanese food I had never heard of.

They were also very inconsistent on whether they would convert SI units to US units or not.

Money terms are hard to keep un-centric. Best i can think of are fivers and tenners, which I've seen used in the UK and America. I haven't heard of a universally known term for money over $10.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Money terms are hard to keep un-centric. Best i can think of are fivers and tenners, which I've seen used in the UK and America. I haven't heard of a universally known term for money over $10.

They could have referred to yen, though. However, in that specific instance,

Spoiler

Sonia's the one who mentioned it, so it wasn't that jarring.

 

[antibolo]

Money terms are hard to keep un-centric. Best i can think of are fivers and tenners, which I've seen used in the UK and America. I haven't heard of a universally known term for money over $10.

There was no reason to not just keep talking about yen. They're still Japanese, why the hell would they talk about american money all of a sudden?

 

[antibolo]

With that said though, they did stick pretty close to the original text, at least in voiced scenes, I played with the original audio and there were no painfully obvious moments where the localized dialogue went in a completely different direction, apart from a few references, and the fact that everyone just calls themselves by their given names, and lots of awkwardly forced swearing.

The Hyperdimension Neptunia games (also localized by NISA up until the last Vita game) are the complete opposite, they add a lot of stuff to the localization that wasn't there, and when you're playing with the Japanese audio it is very jarring.

 

[GuardianE]

You're talking about relevancy. You state it doesn't follow the excessively blatant trait that makes it relevant... And because of that, it is disqualified because YOU think the questions in it don't flow as well as you want? Yeah, no. You not liking how well that intent is implemented doesn't change the relevancy. Especially when you're argument is so simple it could just as easily be manipulated onto any of the minigames.

All the minigames are basically stop and do this for a little bit. If you're argument has now shifted to pacing of the overall trial, you might as well throw all of them out except Nonstop Debate and Rebuttal Showdown.

Yeah, you think you're tired of this? Shit like this just gives me a headache trying to give insistent people the benefit of the doubt.

I think it's the other way around, really. It's not that the questions don't flow as well as I want. It's that the action doesn't correspond to the questions/answers. The act of snowboarding is not, in any way, a metaphor for logical connections. It looks and feels arbitrary.

The other minigames create conflict or drama within the pace of the trial. Logic Dive does none of this, and overstays its welcome.

There was no reason to not just keep talking about yen. They're still Japanese, why the hell would they talk about american money all of a sudden?

It's just slang, though. I don't remember the context, but if they're looking for a slang term for money, then they wouldn't use a term that the west might not be familiar with.

 

[properpropaganda]

Uhh...if it's the immediate one after that, just go and start Island Mode. You will get it soon.

thank you sir.


last thing, does anyone remember what page the list of items in the usami game was on?

 

[GuardianE]

last thing, does anyone remember what page the list of items in the usami game was on?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129536267&postcount=2815

Here you go!

 

[Labrys]

There was no reason to not just keep talking about yen. They're still Japanese, why the hell would they talk about american money all of a sudden?

I meant in terms of slang, I don't know of any Japanese money slang.

 

[antibolo]

It's just slang, though. I don't remember the context, but if they're looking for a slang term for money, then they wouldn't use a term that the west might not be familiar with.

It's a term that only means something to Americans though.