Support NeoGAF

[CornBurrito]

#343 points out how bad No Lynch is and highlights my absence, the following 343 calls out Oceanic Air, #360 is calling out you for word-heavy content-low posts, #501 calls out kingkitty for rolefishing, the following few push him for reads (which are given), #539 questioning me on what I think of kingkitty (to which I answered), #551 is pointing out that answering other people's questions is scummy (which he's right about), #681 gives his reads and echoes my opinion on Mak (and given we're using such similar logic, if you buy that he's not Hope you should also buy I'm not innately scummy), and so on.

I got bored at this point, dude has over 150 posts. They're often not particularly wordy but he's throwing things out there and I'm not sure what's going on if you're not seeing them. That doesn't necessarily mean he's Hope, but I think, at this early stage, it is somewhat likely. If he's still alive by like D5, I'd start getting very, very cautious, though.

Actually post 343 isn't really pointing out why No Lynch is bad. Others pointed to games where No Punishment worked. Instead he uses it to make people suspicious of non-voters. Which is advice others had already given,

His post towards king kitty is more convincing. Calling out role fishing seems a genuine town move. As does post 551.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

do keep in mind that a huge part of mafia is social deception and that means the emotions people are displaying are not necessarily the ones they are feeling

 

[Blargonaut]

do keep in mind that a huge part of mafia is social deception and that means the emotions people are displaying are not necessarily the ones they are feeling

 

[CzarTim]

if you are anti day one lynch, go to any site with a forum mafia community and find me one that doesn't routinely day one lynch. I'll wait here.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Would franconp's room being in the corner make him a target? That's probably the "oddest" thing about his placement. Least likely route to be seen? I don't know if people are told exactly who they see or if they bump into "someone" in the dark. Probably the later?


He seemed okay with my response back so I doubt he was too suspicious. He didn't really go hard on anyone from what I remember, so I think it might really just be the placement.

It's possible. He overlooks both the gym and the cafeteria. I have to imagine that those rooms are there for a specific reason; someone's riles have to include them or why have them?

Honestly, I'm not sure there's any reasonable information we can get from francop's death at this stage. It was N1, so mafia haven't had the ability to use any investigative roles yet. Their decision to kill was based purely on D1. They don't need to kill any player who was looked at suspisciously, because they can count on town to do that for them. Every single person except CzarTim got voted for at least once, but francop was probably one of the least pushed on, which implies he is relatively well trusted, which makes him a good lynch target. That's not to imply his vote choices were right - as mafia, I don't kill people who fos'd me because it is difficult to explain the next day (instead, I kill people who fos the people who fos me - difficult for them to explain). If anything, they probably weren't.

What's more useful than "who did mafia kill" is "who did mafia not kill". Mafia avoided killing PRs, which I thought was interesting, but they're probably trying to steer away from the obvious kills because there will be protection on them. Alternatively, at least one of the "PRs" we have so far are scum, which I'm increasingly thinking is not at all unlikely in Makai's case. I also think it is interesting that CzarTim is still alive - he went totally unvoted for yesterday, is a top poster, seems well trusted, and contributes what appears like relatively useful information. Right now I'd peg that as mafia avoiding obvious targets, but the longer CzarTim survives, the more suspiscious I would get of him particularly.

I have to imagine there is some reason for their choice. Even if it's light on specifics much like our day 1 Punish.

I do agree that their choice of who not to kill is interesting. Makai certainly made himself a target, perhaps too obvious a target? Gosh surviving shouldn't be too shocking; they had to assume he would switch himself with someone else. Maybe he did.

of course no one voted for me, i'm the most town ever.

Are you? Zygerrianslaver.gif

(On my phone or I would find/make that.)

 

[CornBurrito]

What changed your mind?

CzarTim behavior. And that he voted for himself. But that may very well be a ploy so we go "anyone willing to vote for themselves must be hope" but I don't think Crab would keep stressing that he thinks kg is Hope. Nor do I think that he would bring up that he is too divisive to stay in. Those things don't help that ploy.

dude, I say this outside of everything else, but this is an internet game with zero stakes. We're here to have fun. It feels like you are taking everything super seriously and I just can't do that. None of this matters.

Me joking with crab and AB is just that, jokes. go read star wars, I did the same thing there. it shouldnt be indicative of my alignment. I've given reads and stated my opinion on everything in this game and also posted jokes. so once again do you have a specific question for me or are you going to keep talking around what you are implying: that I'm scum? Because I'm not.

No questions for you. I just think you are Despair and using this chance to deflect future suspicion away. Like you keep joking you and Crab are Despair so we all find the notion that you are actually Despair ridiculous. Especially when Crab ends up being a hope.

 

[Makai]

if you are anti day one lynch, go to any site with a forum mafia community and find me one that doesn't routinely day one lynch. I'll wait here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/

 

[CornBurrito]

if you are anti day one lynch, go to any site with a forum mafia community and find me one that doesn't routinely day one lynch. I'll wait here.

I am not nor did I ever state I was anti day one lynch. I am just saying that it is super high school level advice and you giving it when others already did doesn't make me believe you are town.

 

[CornBurrito]

Super high school level OBVIOUS advice.

 

[Pau]

I thought we were going to try to discuss stuff other than kgtrep vs. Crab today but whatever. I don't think either Crab and kgtrep are Despair.

Can't say I care for Crab but I don't read him as Despair. If kgtrep is Hope I think he's wasting his power. I'm also leaning towards Crab not having having a power role and instead taking advantage of the one power he does have (a vote).

Vote: kgtrep

 

[CzarTim]

CzarTim behavior. And that he voted for himself. But that may very well be a ploy so we go "anyone willing to vote for themselves must be hope" but I don't think Crab would keep stressing that he thinks kg is Hope. Nor do I think that he would bring up that he is too divisive to stay in. Those things don't help that ploy.



No questions for you. I just think you are Despair and using this chance to deflect future suspicion away. Like you keep joking you and Crab are Despair so we all find the notion that you are actually Despair ridiculous. Especially when Crab ends up being a hope.

deflect from what exactly? no one was suspicious of me and I've been doing this all game. You've just suddenly decided I'm scummy because...?

I am not nor did I ever state I was anti day one lynch. I am just saying that it is super high school level advice and you giving it when others already did doesn't make me believe you are town.

nor should it, fair point

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/

4 out of 6 games

 

[SalvaPot]

Hey crab, if you want to change your vote now is the time.

 

[CornBurrito]

I thought we were going to try to discuss stuff other than kgtrep vs. Crab today but whatever. I don't think either Crab and kgtrep are Despair.

Can't say I care for Crab but I don't read him as Despair. If kgtrep is Hope I think he's wasting his power. I'm also leaning towards Crab not having having a power role and instead taking advantage of the one power he does have (a vote).

Vote: kgtrep

So how does this lead you to vote for kgtrep exactly? If you think both are Hope. Because he wasted his power?

 

[Makai]

CzarTim behavior. And that he voted for himself. But that may very well be a ploy so we go "anyone willing to vote for themselves must be hope" but I don't think Crab would keep stressing that he thinks kg is Hope. Nor do I think that he would bring up that he is too divisive to stay in. Those things don't help that ploy.

It worked on you, didn't it? This is his ploy. He can't use his usual tactics because of the duel, which is why he hates it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Hey crab, if you want to change your vote now is the time.

I'm just going to unvote, actually. We were getting some interesting discussion of other material, and I don't see the need to hasten us quite so swiftly now that people are beginning to move beyond the confines of the THUNDERDOME.

UNVOTE

 

[sandalphon]

Surely I cannot be the only one who has seen that GIF before?


I am trying to make sure I dont get fired. We got new management in and she seems to be gunning for me for some fucking reason. I am trying to keep my head down, which sadly means my time for messing around on my phone is extremely limited. Hoping things settle down soon, or Im going to have to hire a lawyer because this is insanity. Id make a "hostile work environment" joke ala Archer, but it is decidedly less funny when it is actually happening to you.


Couple problems with this.

1. I was the first person to vote for KingKitty, which means he wasnt an "easy target" at the time. It's not like I was dog, er... cat-piling on him.

2. IRL crap will, unfortunately, get in the way. More than that though, basing your opinion and expectations of me on other players' perception of me from previous games is well, pretty baseless. Im sorry Im not living up to your expectations of other players' perceptions of me.

Thats probably crankier than I mean it to be, but I gotta get out of here. (Here being my office). I am working from home tomorrow, so as long as work isnt trying to crawl on my nuts through the power of the internet, I should be more available. Maybe.

AbsolutBro, my apologies. You are completely in the right on your kingkitty vote. To be honest, I had another reason for that vote on you on D1, but I wanted to keep that reason hidden to see if you would say anything about it on your own, and you did. It was how Rest called up on you to tie the votes (post no. 737). It sat very off with me and I had thought maybe Rest had done a small misstep and revealed that he and you may be privy to a hidden channel of discussion between yourselves.

However, I see that you were also irritated by his call out and you volunteered this reaction in your post without anyone prompting you to do so. This definitely clears you in my book.

Your note about not taking past games’ performance into account is also a fair call. I will remind myself on this when I assess fellow players.

I also hope that your work situation will settle down soon.

 

[Makai]

Okay, so what will happen on Night 1 that would make sure that one of us is/is not Despair? What are you expecting from this night?

Not to pre-empt your answer too much, but here's the information we, as a town, get tonight: a) someone dies, b) more than one person dies, c) no-one dies. a)... doesn't help us know if someone is Despair or not if the person who died never said anything at all, because we can't draw any conclusions. b) tells us the same as c) but also there are extra killing roles, which is useful to know as a general piece of information but doesn't help us make any more specific choices in the short run. c) gives us no information *at all* other than that there's probably a protective role of some sort. None of these are very likely to give you specific information on who is likely to be Despair. The only way it does is if someone dies who talked a lot, pushed a lot of buttons, and we can see which buttons Despair wants to avoid being pushed... but that doesn't happen if you keep quiet and vote No Punishment.

So, what are you expecting to gain from this night? Like, please explain what actual piece of information you want.

I gave Crab my top suspects on the twilight of Day 1. Then he role fishes me. Explain why you did this, Crab.

 

[*Splinter]

CzarTim behavior. And that he voted for himself. But that may very well be a ploy so we go "anyone willing to vote for themselves must be hope" but I don't think Crab would keep stressing that he thinks kg is Hope. Nor do I think that he would bring up that he is too divisive to stay in. Those things don't help that ploy.

I think it would be pretty hard to build a case for kgtrep being Despair at this point, so I'm not really surprised to see him stay away from that.
The self vote is kind of weird, the way he was posting earlier I kind of thought he really wanted out of this game. Maybe that was a ploy as well... I don't know.

As for Tim, still can't read him, way too much noise

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I gave Crab my top suspects on the twilight of Day 1. Then he role fishes me. Explain why you did this, Crab.

Your suspects were me and CzarTim, because we contributed material. This, to me, seemed like a very lazy way of justifying why you yourself weren't contributing material, rather than being an actual suspect list. I never rolefished.

 

[Terrabyte20xx]

Interesting stuff going on here, I might end up changing my vote too...

 

[Pau]

So how does this lead you to vote for kgtrep exactly? If you think both are Hope. Because he wasted his power?

Because he's either wasted his power as Hope or (less likely, I think) is Neutral fucking with us. I'd rather not vote for either of them but it comes down to who is more detrimental to Hope at this point. And I'm trying to not to let myself be swayed by people's attitudes.

At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure we're killing two non-Despair folks. I rather talk about stuff, like what we think is happening at night and how the map influences that, and who to vote for on Day 3.

 

[Makai]

Your suspects were me and CzarTim, because we contributed material. This, to me, seemed like a very lazy way of justifying why you yourself weren't contributing material, rather than being an actual suspect list. I never rolefished.

Of course, you don't think my suspects are not legitimate.

Literally, look at this. This was bloody pages ago, the very first time I voted Makai, and it gave him a super obvious out: literally just name suspects and why you suspect them. That's not rocket science, it is how the game works.

The first paragraph of this still holds true for *everyone*, especially the bold sentence.

You had no intention of changing your vote.

 

[Sawneeks]

This is concerning Sawneeks.

I notice that her opinions very much mirror crabs. In particular she voted for Terrabyte for not letting up off of KingKitty when Crab said that they should focus on more important things, and she voted for Makai because other people were noting that he wasn't doing anything besides talk about old games and push focus away. I'm a fan of people who are at least somewhat contrarian, so it makes me more weary of a player who mimics a strong player, it feels similar to hiding behind a rock to stay safe. I suppose eventually you'll have to find some overlap with opinions, and it is early, but the overall day 1 with her is something that I don't really like. If I could vote on her today I probably would based off of the day 1 topics.

Call it 'newbie jitters' or whatever term you like but by the end of Day 1 I was noticing I did that a lot as well. I try not to let past games ( just the ONUW games ) affect how I view other posters because I don't feel it's a good way to judge a current game due to what happened in a past game, but I was noticing Crab's posts more so than the others. I think it is because Crab 'officiated' the GAF Mafia sign up thread so I just assumed that the person 'in charge' so to speak must know more than I do given this is my first real game of online Mafia. Hopefully I won't fall into it again but if it looks like I am hiding behind someone in the future just point it out and I will do my best to respond.

Yep. Time for you guys to get serious.

Pick a side.

There isn't a rush to vote today. We are confined to pick between two people and can't really pressure anyone with a vote so throwing one out now won't get us anywhere.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

I'm pretty sure if we have two night kills tonight we have a serial killer that can only kill every other night (and alignment would be unknown)

 

[CzarTim]

Fight club!

 

[Makai]

There isn't a rush to vote today. We are confined to pick between two people and can't really pressure anyone with a vote so throwing one out now won't get us anywhere.

You pressure them by putting 10 votes on them.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Of course, you don't think my suspects are not legitimate.
You had no intention of changing your vote.

Except I changed it to SalvaPot, until he actually did what I asked, unlike you. Huh, odd that. Also, do you realise how easy it would have been to call bullshit on your role claim and just continue to go for a lynch anyway if I actually wanted to? I mean, people aren't even convinced by your claim now. I changed my vote I think seven times on D1. Your point doesn't stand.

 

[*Splinter]

You pressure them by putting 10 votes on them.

That sounds dangerous. It's already narrowed down to a two way vote, how much more pressure do you need?

I don't know why I've put so much faith in Mak's role claim... It's not the sole basis of my Crab suspicion but it was certainly a catalyst

 

[SalvaPot]

I have noticed now a few of you have mentioned the relevance of the map now, why is this important now? It was dismissed yesterday as fluff, why is it a conversation point now, did something happened?

Huh, I think the map may be important now.

so we have a pool, a restaurant, a gymnasium and that weird thing on the left I have no idea what it is.

Launch, is it a valid question to ask if the map has a meaning, or is it just added fluff?

 

[CzarTim]

How many times do I have to say fight club, Jesus

 

[Sawneeks]

You pressure them by putting 10 votes on them.

Fair enough. But realistically the only vote to throw out to get more information would be on Crab. My gut feeling tells me Kg's role is either Neutral or Town and seeing as he just blew his load everywhere that doesn't leave him with any other power other than a vote. There isn't much left to get out by pressuring him.

I'm still skeptical on Crab but after reading through Kg's Bible on Crab I'm much more inclined to believe that he is Town as well. What it feels like is it's going to come down to 'why should we keep Crab over Kg or vice versa?'

 

[Makai]

That sounds dangerous. It's already narrowed down to a two way vote, how much more pressure do you need?

I don't know why I've put so much faith in Mak's role claim... It's not the sole basis of my Crab suspicion but it was certainly a catalyst

Isn't it 6 to 6? We need 11 for punishment.

Except I changed it to SalvaPot, until he actually did what I asked, unlike you. Huh, odd that. Also, do you realise how easy it would have been to call bullshit on your role claim and just continue to go for a lynch anyway if I actually wanted to? I mean, people aren't even convinced by your claim now. I changed my vote I think seven times on D1. Your point doesn't stand.

I did exactly what you asked, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

These are the only posts I care about. I will switch my vote to kgtreb if you can prove that this isn't role-fishing:

Okay, so what will happen on Night 1 that would make sure that one of us is/is not Despair? What are you expecting from this night?

Not to pre-empt your answer too much, but here's the information we, as a town, get tonight: a) someone dies, b) more than one person dies, c) no-one dies. a)... doesn't help us know if someone is Despair or not if the person who died never said anything at all, because we can't draw any conclusions. b) tells us the same as c) but also there are extra killing roles, which is useful to know as a general piece of information but doesn't help us make any more specific choices in the short run. c) gives us no information *at all* other than that there's probably a protective role of some sort. None of these are very likely to give you specific information on who is likely to be Despair. The only way it does is if someone dies who talked a lot, pushed a lot of buttons, and we can see which buttons Despair wants to avoid being pushed... but that doesn't happen if you keep quiet and vote No Punishment.

So, what are you expecting to gain from this night? Like, please explain what actual piece of information you want.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

top left is workshop. We were discussing map in light of francop's death - he's near the gymnasium, so if mafia has a role that requires access to that they might have wanted to kill people near it for safety.

That said, I do have two questions for launch re: the map. If a role needs to go a specific location, does it take the shortest possible path, or can roles choose how they get to a location? Some people have equidistant routes - i.e., if kgtrep visited Ty4on or CzarTim visited francop, it's not clear which way they go if it is shortest possible route, because there are two equal-length shortest routes for those players.

 

[Sawneeks]

How many times do I have to say fight club, Jesus

They say if you recite it 3 times in a mirror Brad Pitt will appear and remind you of rule 1 with his fists.

 

[SalvaPot]

They say if you recite it 3 times in a mirror Brad Pitt will appear and remind you of rule 1 with his fists.

Rule 1: No kisses, I want to save something for the man I love.

 

[Ty4on]

Guys this is Czar posting on AB's account. You should totally Punish me!

Silly mafia, Czar barely capitalizes.

Have yet to vote:
Sawneeks
ViviOggi
Pau
swamped
Kalor
Zippedpinhead
AbsolutBro
Barrylocke
kingkitty

I think I did not miss anyone.

I'm always forgotten. I haven't voted and don't plan to vote unless we approach a majority of the deadline.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

These are the only posts I care about. I will switch my vote to kgtreb if you can prove that this isn't role-fishing:

Neither are role-fishing. In both, I am genuinely asking what piece of information you expect, so that I determine from you reaction clues about your alignment. There are three possible options. a) you are ordinary Hope, b) you are Hope power role, c) you are Despair.

If a), you realize that you don't get any extra information, and you're being silly by voting No Punishment, so you'd be best off admitting that and giving some proper reads. That's good for town because it means more info. If b) you realize that the information you're relying on comes from the fact you are a PR, which you are making obvious by insisting on waiting for information that logically ordinary Hope don't have, so you'd be best off saying "actually I was wrong, there is no information" and giving some proper reads. That's good for town because it means more info AND you look less like a PR to mafia and more like ordinary town. If c) you realize that the information you're relying on comes from the fact you're Despair, which you can't admit to, so you have to say "actually, I was wrong, there is no information", and give some proper reads. This is good for town because it means more info.

There is no situation for which "THE INFO IM WAITING ON COMES FROM MY PR" is an acceptable answer; it never helps town, so why would you answer me that way?

 

[Sawneeks]

Rule 1: No kisses, I want to save something for the man I love.

says Brad Pitt as he punches your face in.

 

[Makai]

Neither are role-fishing. In both, I am genuinely asking what piece of information you expect, so that I determine from you reaction clues about your alignment. There are three possible options. a) you are ordinary Hope, b) you are Hope power role, c) you are Despair.

If a), you realize that you don't get any extra information, and you're being silly by voting No Punishment, so you'd be best off admitting that and giving some proper reads. That's good for town because it means more info. If b) you realize that the information you're relying on comes from the fact you are a PR, which you are making obvious by insisting on waiting for information that logically ordinary Hope don't have, so you'd be best off saying "actually I was wrong, there is no information" and giving some proper reads. That's good for town because it means more info AND you look less like a PR to mafia and more like ordinary town. If c) you realize that the information you're relying on comes from the fact you're Despair, which you can't admit to, so you have to say "actually, I was wrong, there is no information", and give some proper reads. This is good for town because it means more info.

There is no situation for which "THE INFO IM WAITING ON COMES FROM MY PR" is an acceptable answer; it never helps town, so why would you answer me that way?

How could I possibly tell you what info I would get during the night without revealing my role?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

top left is workshop. We were discussing map in light of francop's death - he's near the gymnasium, so if mafia has a role that requires access to that they might have wanted to kill people near it for safety.

That said, I do have two questions for launch re: the map. If a role needs to go a specific location, does it take the shortest possible path, or can roles choose how they get to a location? Some people have equidistant routes - i.e., if kgtrep visited Ty4on or CzarTim visited francop, it's not clear which way they go if it is shortest possible route, because there are two equal-length shortest routes for those players.

Just lighting the LAUNCHPADMCQ signal so we can get some answers.

 

[SalvaPot]

says Brad Pitt as he punches your face in.

Whatever gets you off, I mean.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

How could I possibly tell you what info I would get during the night without revealing my role?

That's the whole point!!!!!!!! You don't! You say "gee whizz, Crab, you're right - when I think about it, I can't possibly learn anything during the night, so waiting for night without giving reads is pointless!". Then you give reads. Then we move on. Like, I couldn't prompt you any more heavily to act like a normal town in that post than I already was.

 

[Ty4on]

That said, I do have two questions for launch re: the map. If a role needs to go a specific location, does it take the shortest possible path, or can roles choose how they get to a location? Some people have equidistant routes - i.e., if kgtrep visited Ty4on or CzarTim visited francop, it's not clear which way they go if it is shortest possible route, because there are two equal-length shortest routes for those players.

I thought of the same. I would imagine some sort of bias for moving left or right to keep stuff consistent.

I hope that about targets on the right side being easier to kill is false...

 

[SalvaPot]

Just lighting the LAUNCHPADMCQ signal so we can get some answers.

On it:

AGENTS OF SHIELD SUCKS AND SMALLVILE WAS MUCH BETTER.

 

[Sawneeks]

Whatever gets you off, I mean.

we might be thinking of different fight clubs.

 

[SalvaPot]

we might be thinking of different fight clubs.

But we are clearly thinking about the same Brad Pitt.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Anyway, I'm off to sleep. Please don't lynch me before I wake up, or I will find the most obscenely annoying popcorn gifs to haunt you all with.

 

[SalvaPot]

The hermit has stolen his house.

I repeat.

The hermit has stolen his house.

Its time for execution Plan D.

 

[Makai]

That's the whole point!!!!!!!! You don't! You say "gee whizz, Crab, you're right - when I think about it, I can't possibly learn anything during the night, so waiting for night without giving reads is pointless!". Then you give reads. Then we move on. Like, I couldn't prompt you any more heavily to act like a normal town in that post than I already was.

You flat-out asked me what specific information I expected to get that night. You love doing this. You explain away your scummy actions by saying, "you should have read between the lines, idiot!"

Okay, so what will happen on Night 1 that would make sure that one of us is/is not Despair? What are you expecting from this night?

So, what are you expecting to gain from this night? Like, please explain what actual piece of information you want.

You demand my suspects. I give you my suspects. You don't think these are legitimate, so you rolefish (but really you weren't rolefishing and just wanted me to give another set of suspects). Later you claim to have known that I was a power role, yet you continued pushing me with the clock around my neck. You are clearly scum.

 

[sandalphon]

Night kill on franconp also took me by surprise. My theory on this would be that Despair did not want to risk hitting high-value targets due to protective Hope power roles, so they went after a moderately active town player to weaken town’s abilities as in: they rather keep the hardly contributing players in because they hardly add any valuable inputs.

Why franconp specifically remains a mystery to me, as well. I do note that I placed franconp as someone who was more on the quiet side, but when he did post, he made solid posts.

It may be as you all theorize, that it has something to do with his room's placement. I am not certain any concrete leads can be generated from this, however, given that we are basically simply stabbing in the dark with regards to the reasons to franconp's exit.