-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Danganronpa Mafia |OT| Grin and Bear It
- Thread starter LaunchpadMcQ
- Start date
My one read of Zippedpinhead is that he threatens PRs to reveal information or he'll vote to lynch them. That to me sounds more like Despair than Hope.
And honestly, I don't think I would have been able to play through the day phase or the next convincing people to trust me when they were already suspicious even before I was outed. I'm sorry I'm not Crab. But hey, I'm also still alive. So.
I don't understand why I should have been aiming for 1) when I didn't trust CzarTim or AbsolutBro? I can't say for sure that Despair would target me over the other PRs, but it was enough of a possibility and I don't exactly want to be like: "Oh, here's why Despair is going to target me" because that might also give them ideas if they haven't actually thought of it.
And honestly, I don't think I would have been able to play through the day phase or the next convincing people to trust me when they were already suspicious even before I was outed. I'm sorry I'm not Crab. But hey, I'm also still alive. So.
Zippedpinhead
Member
*splinter, despair already knows all the hope night time PRs, there is no way they don't now. The only ideas that any of us could give them was revealing Pau and ty4ons hiding places and Ty4on did that already... (I literally shook my head at work when I saw that info graphic)
How did she spot CzarTim?
CornBurrito
Member
I think he role claimed in such a showy fashion for two reasons.
A. If he had survived that day, Despair would have been in a very good position imo.
B. Lulz. I imagine Czar had a shitload of fun doing it.
Royal_Flush
Member
See, could we please just not do this unless we
a) run in danger that we lose the information who redacted is (That means two of Pau, Ty4on and AB are dead) or
b) we are sure that redacted is Despair.
I know I'm kind of phishing for information on this too, but I never wanted actual names. And I don't think in the current situation the name of redacted helps us in a big way. This may change after the next NK but until then I'm against revealing or openly speculating about the identity of redacting.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Since czartim went to francorp's room he could have moved top or bottom row, the only way Sawneeks and that happened is if he moved the whole way across the bottom.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Well I don't break the rules, and all I can do is sleuth, assume and conjecture. Me saying names doesn't break ANYTHING that fight club is doing. Just saying what most of us should be thinking.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
There's a vote on ZippedPinhead and CornBurrito has said he's not opposed to adding another one. There's momentum.
CornBurrito
Member
Even with my vote switching, there'd still be an equal amount of votes for Tl21xx and Zipped. Both have momentum.
Then his one shot cop cover would be blown if anyone from the bottom row spoke up.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
I was only aware of one vote for each, plus your potential vote. I could go with either.
Like I said, I don't have a strong read on anyone. We need to move forward, we need information. One way to do that is to vote.
But it's such a fun word
We only use wholesome, family-friendly language here god damn it. So watch your mouth.
Eeehhhh...
Sure? Sure. It feels flimsy to me but I can see where you're coming from.
Bandwagon-y but, sure, I guess. But I'm asking you, regardless of where the vote count even is, as to why Zipped over TL21.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Literally no reason. I said when I voted it's pure bandwagon.We only use wholesome, family-friendly language here god damn it. So watch your mouth.
Eeehhhh...
Sure? Sure. It feels flimsy to me but I can see where you're coming from.
Bandwagon-y but, sure, I guess. But I'm asking you, regardless of where the vote count even is, as to why Zipped over TL21.
He was proactive on the whole fight club thing and could steer the conversation away from him instead of suddenly having it focused on him.
You realize how that looks, right?
Also both are now equal in votes and there has to be something, even something small, that makes you go Zipped over TL21.
Is this for me or Corn? Because I'm in the mindset that Czar's whole gambit was to get himself lynched, use his power, and kill off someone else. Czar's actions back this up.
He had a huge amount of chances to steer himself clear of the firing line on Day 3 but he kept putting himself there. And I'm going to assume Czar is a good enough Mafia player to realize that trying the reverse psychology 'kill me!' trick wasn't going to work for a 3rd time. Especially not since he advocated for it pretty hard while Makai/Crab used the same trick and then moved on while Czar didn't.
Zippedpinhead
Member
He went there night one, night two he went to salvapot, which means he went left and was only seen from people who went all the way left (to the workshop and that other facility) day 3 he didn't go anywhere (didn't need to, didn't feel like it, wanted to give one last shot to his "one shot ability", I don't know). Either way by night 3 he was figured out and cover blown so it didn't matter.
As we discussed yesterday the one shot cop play only words because no one saw him night 2 and likely despair agreed that someone else should carry out kills for a while.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
Please tell me this vote isn't because you think I'm redacted...
CornBurrito
Member
Err... that's an extremely dumb plan though. Czar didnt need to get himself lynched D3 to use his power. He could have simply coasted through the game for as long as possible UNTIL he was naturally voted out.
Instead he played a risky game, and had he not been voted out on D3 and forced into using his role, I imagine he'd still be with us here on D5.
Terrabyte claimed ordinary student when I pressed him. If people saw him wandering the halls, somebody would have outed him. Liars are lynched.
Zippedpinhead
Member
It's because I think you COULD be redacted, but more imprortantly because you haven't provided good reads to me, you aren't acting like you were last game (when you were town, it's very hard to not play differently when you get a different alignment,) look at absolutebro and czartim for the different ways they played and try to remain consistent from game to game (I won't send you after me because I know I e played differently each game). You have switched gameplay dramatically and haven't provided reads that I found good. Potentially being redacted is just extra.
CornBurrito
Member
Vote: Sorian
I simply don't trust this guy.
I simply don't trust this guy.
It's actually a really, really smart play. Everyone focus on CzarTim and AB for an entire Day. Day ends, CzarTim uses his power and kills another, leaving everyone confused and with a wasted Day. The following Day is also spent in waste as it leaves us with only one really viable option: lynch Czar. That's TWO days with no good Lynches that provided new results that help Town.
But going for your reasoning why would he draw so much attention to himself? I know it's the whole reverse psychology thing but he was very adamant about it, more so than Makai/Crab when they pulled the same thing. It doesn't make sense.
If Czar went the bottom path N1 it would be very likely that someone who saw him knew what path he had to have taken and could have countered his claim to targeting AB N1. Instead I believe he would have said something like he targeted me or Sawneeks if he took the bottom path to make it consistent.
Zippedpinhead
Member
When you pushed him he claimed he wasn't your other lucky student, and when he asked if any fight club members ever saw him no one responded...
Neither make him a liar, and neither shows he claimed ordinary student...
Unless I'm missing a post, which is possible I did a search but I will admit I did not read every single one of his almost 200 posts
Tl21xx Notes
Day 1:
Day 4:
Votes on him
Day 1: Gosh, franconp
Day 3: Sawneeks, CornBurrito, CzarTim
Day 4: Kalor
Day 5: Sawneeks, Royal_Flush, Kalor, CornBurrito
I think the most suspicious thing is just not posting a lot (he did have an excuse) or failing to offer too much that's unique. But I can see the frustration for players who aren't rulebreakers.
Day 1:
- Gets voted on.
- Votes Hagi.
- Votes kgtrep. Not Crab. Despair would have definitely wanted Crab dead over kgtrep. But they could have distributed their votes. Is it an act?
Day 4:
- Thinks its plausible that CzarTim sacrificed himself to save a more important Despair teammate.
- Hope reads Terra, Gosh, Makai, CornBurrito, and (less) Sawneeks. Mentions kingkitty and Rest as suspects.
- Last vote on CzarTim. Claims doesnt see the point in waiting out the day.
Votes on him
Day 1: Gosh, franconp
Day 3: Sawneeks, CornBurrito, CzarTim
Day 4: Kalor
Day 5: Sawneeks, Royal_Flush, Kalor, CornBurrito
I think the most suspicious thing is just not posting a lot (he did have an excuse) or failing to offer too much that's unique. But I can see the frustration for players who aren't rulebreakers.
CornBurrito
Member
I feel like we keep talking in circles, and we just will not agree on why Czar did what he did.
I'm probably not going to change my mind unless Zipped flips as Despair.
Zippedpinhead
Member
So your mind flips If I AM despair or if I am NOT despair? Just want to see where your head is
I do think it helped more than harmed. Whether that was intentional or not, I'm not sure.
I'll admit that Ty4on and I roleclaiming helped them narrow down Crab as a doctor or more powerful PR. And wasting another day.
So far Hope has wasted two days, and Despair has wasted two nights.
Makes me think that Sawneeks is the next target, if she is not Despair or if Despair doesn't feel like going after Ty4on or me.
CornBurrito
Member
I keep saying this.
I have several assumptions running about what went down on D3. If those assumptions are correct, Despair wanted Sawneeks dead and not Czartim. This means that I have good reason to think that Kalor/Royals/Zipped are not Despair. Since they were 3 votes in quick succession that saved Sawneeks and got Czartim voted out.
If you flip Despair, that means my assumptions were wrong. This also means my reasons for trusting Kalor and Royals vanish. I have two more Despair suspects and two less people I feel comfortable trusting.
If you flip Hope, I'll be slightly more secure that my assumptions were correct. Not as definitive as I'd like, but its something. And I need any level of confirmation I can get.
You might ask: Why not Kalor/Royals? Why me as the target? And that's because even despite what I said, my gut just won't let me feel comfortable with thinking of you as Hope like it does for Kalor/Royals.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Good point! That gives even more reason to question redacted, it means they couldn't have gone anywhere night one. Why would a hope role rule breaker not use his ability night one (especially since none of us knew how movement worked night 1)?
The only way Sawneeks saw czartim then is if he went the whole way across. Based on the pathways for everyone else it means that redacted couldn't be from the upper floor (because absolutbro visited me night 3, and did not see anyone but pau, if any top floor people moved as redacted that night to the bottom aisle he would have seen them when he went over.
My vote stands currently.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
As Makai has supported, it No one has claimed me to wander the halls despite ample opportunity to yesterday.
And as for reads, this is because they are in a constant state of flux. I can tell you who I think is hope, but that's all I'm certain about.(These would be Corn, Makai, Sawneeks, and AB.)
Everyone else is decidedly neutral with a few exceptions.
Rest, who is mostly gut feelings that are mentally supported by scummy behavior including: terrible voting record, passive aggressive scum hunting, and asking for a forced tie in case of him being potentially voted out. Granted that last one was day one, but it was well after hope as a whole collectively agreed a tie should NOT happen.
Zippedpinhead, aka the Black Hole. I can't read you worth crap, so I try to stay away from you leaning anywhere.
Makai/Sawneeks: similar playstyles to me make them mutually hope/Despair. If one flips one way, I'm inclined to believe the other is the same.
Once again, everyone else is a big blob of grey and 'I-have-no-clue-how-to-read-this'.
This doesn't mean I'm not trying, but I don't go throwing around mud if I don't think if it will legitimately contribute to the conversation... Or if I find it hilarious.
AbsolutBro
Member
Okay, are we ignoring that Czar, a known Despair, had a chance to hammer home a vote on Sawneeks and chose not to. I'm almost positive it was that very action that convinced Crab that Czar was Despair, shortly before Czar ultimate debated him.
Is there a factor I'm missing here? Is there a good reason we don't suspect Sawneeks of being Despair? I mean, it's entirely possible I am missing something. It's an honest question.
Is there a factor I'm missing here? Is there a good reason we don't suspect Sawneeks of being Despair? I mean, it's entirely possible I am missing something. It's an honest question.
Zippedpinhead
Member
I keep saying this.
I have several assumptions running about what went down on D3. If those assumptions are correct, Despair wanted Sawneeks dead and not Czartim. This means that I have good reason to think that Kalor/Royals/Zipped are not Despair. Since they were 3 votes in quick succession that saved Sawneeks and got Czartim voted out.
If you flip Despair, that means my assumptions were wrong. This also means my reasons for trusting Kalor and Royals vanish. I have two more Despair suspects and two less people I feel comfortable trusting.
If you flip Hope, I'll be slightly more secure that my assumptions were correct. Not as definitive as I'd like, but its something. And I need any level of confirmation I can get.
You might ask: Why not Kalor/Royals? Why me as the target? And that's because even despite what I said, my gut just won't let me feel comfortable with thinking of you as Hope like it does for Kalor/Royals.
If I do die today, prepare for your assumptions to be more secure. As ordinary a superhigh school level hope aligned person as can be here.
CornBurrito
Member
I actually DO suspect Sawneeks lol. I've said many times that she could very well also be Despair.
If Zipped flips Despair, we must keep in mind that he was ultimately the vote that sent Czartim packing. And then we need to ask ourselves why did Despair find it worthwhile keeping Sawneeks alive.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Both CornBurrito and I had votes on Sawneeks. I don't know why heat on her evaporated. I'd rather vote for her than anyone else, but I'm not seeing a lot of fingers pointing her way.
Wait did CzarTim vote TL21xx or Sawneeks at the end? The spreadsheet has both down.
It would have been suspicious when the role PM made it clear CzarTim would have seen her. I feel Czar wanted to be trusted, not just survive another day. He played very pro town by constantly steering people away from Pau and AB.
CornBurrito
Member
CornBurrito
Member
I 100% agree and am working under this assumption.
Pau, Typhon, can I ask what you two think of Sawneeks?
I asked him to get the record straight and he flat-out said he's an ordinary student.
I don't trust her completely, but I think she asks good questions (I said so before she was outed as a PR) and prefer her being alive for now.
Especially if there's a roleblocker. I think the chance of accidentally killing them is way too high.
The second after I posted and sat back in my chair I thought, "aw shit, I'm arguing in circle again with Corn. Damn it." I think we are just going to agree to disagree on most things...
This has worried me since I role claimed. I thought I was going to die last night to be perfectly honest and I was surprised to see I didn't. ;____;
Okay, so if this is the case, what do you mean that CzarTim chose not to hammer a vote home on Sawneeks? Didn't he vote for her?
sandalphon
Member
Day 5 has been a difficult day for me to parse through. I admit I was, and likely will remain, unable to process a considerable contents of the mechanics discussion in a meaningful manner. Therefore I have decided to take on my regular approach to the game and perform player analysis instead.
There are a few players that I have continuous and lingering doubts on. Their names would not be a surprise since they have previously graced my read-list, namely Terrabyte20xx and Kalor. To these, I am adding TL21xx and kingkitty.
I conversed with Terrabyte20xx somewhat towards the end of Day 4, but despite his responses I found the strength in his arguments lacking. In my post no. 3220, I asked why Terrabyte20xx let up on ViviOggi (now Royal_Flush) even after he seemed to have put a considerable effort into pushing that ViviOggi may have been the ninja (Post no. 2385).
He responded with post no. 3224.
I tried to process his reply earnestly however, I am left with unsatisfactory opinion. If I may summarize his rebuttal, it is basically stating that he did not stick with his analysis because others did not support it and that he voted for Rest because others had suggested him for consideration firstly, bear in mind that these so-called others are: CzarTim, Kalor and CornBurrito, and secondly, bear in mind that CzarTim and Kalor had always been in my suspicious list.
Pushing aside on how his Rest vote came to be for the time being, I would like to reiterate that I believe most people would be a little more committed to their theories and analysis. I cited the example of Makai and CornBurrito in my post no. 3220 as examples of strong tunnellers. Whilst I agree that tunnelling too strong yield unreliable results, what I noticed from his reply is not an explanation of his rational of why he let ViviOggi go as a suspect, but more an explanation on the mechanics of his letting ViviOggi go.
Since now Royal_Flush has joined and replaced ViviOggi, I also noticed that Terrabyte20xx has conveniently gloss over his previous suspicion on the very-same occupied role.
Again, the question for Terrabyte20xx from me remains:
Where has ViviOggi suddenly disappeared to, in your spectrum of suspicion?
This will continue to be in the back of my mind for a while but I am not one to advocate strong tunnelling so I will let it rest for the time being.
Additionally, welcome Royal_Flush and Christina McKenzie! I am glad for new voices, it seems to have injected brand new perspectives into the game. You both have made interesting contributions and have charted well in my reads.
I will now place my vote onto TL21xx. He has not contributed in meaningful manner and I believe Hope has given him ample time now to do so. He was a replacement, but judging from Royal_Flushs performance, I believe TL21xx has been proven lesser in value to Hope. I also find his voting behaviours suspect and his reasoning unconvincing. What I would like to see from TL21xx is meatier and more elaborate reads or contributions. I awaited a good defense.
Vote: TL21xx
My daily player reads will be posted before the Day ends. I apologise if I had been a poor contributor in terms of game mechanics. The whole night roamers movements analysis escape my thought processes. I defer to Sawneeks, Pau, Ty4on, Swamped, CornBurrito and Royal_Flush on the matter.
There are a few players that I have continuous and lingering doubts on. Their names would not be a surprise since they have previously graced my read-list, namely Terrabyte20xx and Kalor. To these, I am adding TL21xx and kingkitty.
I conversed with Terrabyte20xx somewhat towards the end of Day 4, but despite his responses I found the strength in his arguments lacking. In my post no. 3220, I asked why Terrabyte20xx let up on ViviOggi (now Royal_Flush) even after he seemed to have put a considerable effort into pushing that ViviOggi may have been the ninja (Post no. 2385).
He responded with post no. 3224.
I tried to process his reply earnestly however, I am left with unsatisfactory opinion. If I may summarize his rebuttal, it is basically stating that he did not stick with his analysis because others did not support it and that he voted for Rest because others had suggested him for consideration firstly, bear in mind that these so-called others are: CzarTim, Kalor and CornBurrito, and secondly, bear in mind that CzarTim and Kalor had always been in my suspicious list.
Pushing aside on how his Rest vote came to be for the time being, I would like to reiterate that I believe most people would be a little more committed to their theories and analysis. I cited the example of Makai and CornBurrito in my post no. 3220 as examples of strong tunnellers. Whilst I agree that tunnelling too strong yield unreliable results, what I noticed from his reply is not an explanation of his rational of why he let ViviOggi go as a suspect, but more an explanation on the mechanics of his letting ViviOggi go.
Since now Royal_Flush has joined and replaced ViviOggi, I also noticed that Terrabyte20xx has conveniently gloss over his previous suspicion on the very-same occupied role.
Again, the question for Terrabyte20xx from me remains:
Where has ViviOggi suddenly disappeared to, in your spectrum of suspicion?
This will continue to be in the back of my mind for a while but I am not one to advocate strong tunnelling so I will let it rest for the time being.
Additionally, welcome Royal_Flush and Christina McKenzie! I am glad for new voices, it seems to have injected brand new perspectives into the game. You both have made interesting contributions and have charted well in my reads.
I will now place my vote onto TL21xx. He has not contributed in meaningful manner and I believe Hope has given him ample time now to do so. He was a replacement, but judging from Royal_Flushs performance, I believe TL21xx has been proven lesser in value to Hope. I also find his voting behaviours suspect and his reasoning unconvincing. What I would like to see from TL21xx is meatier and more elaborate reads or contributions. I awaited a good defense.
Vote: TL21xx
My daily player reads will be posted before the Day ends. I apologise if I had been a poor contributor in terms of game mechanics. The whole night roamers movements analysis escape my thought processes. I defer to Sawneeks, Pau, Ty4on, Swamped, CornBurrito and Royal_Flush on the matter.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Fair enough, but it just means he isn't redacted. It does NOT mean that my other reasons for voting for him aren't true.
Just means that my assumption on him moving was wrong.
CornBurrito
Member
Vote: Zippedpinhead