This area looked like it had no lighting on the 360 stream, like one giant light brown tunnel where you can easily see everything all the way to the bottom.
Maybe the PC version will be OK, who knows!
Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
This area looked like it had no lighting on the 360 stream, like one giant light brown tunnel where you can easily see everything all the way to the bottom.
Maybe the PC version will be OK, who knows!
I think the engine for Dark Souls 2 was created with the next-gen consoles in mind but FROM thought it was possible to take aspects of the new engine and apply it to the current-gen consoles but couldn't get it working so they are removing those parts while optimizing the engine for the next-gen release. Think of the Tomb Raider a bit. It's sort of like that. Sort of.
Garcia
Member
It all really comes down to this and all the secrecy behind it doesn't help the situation one bit.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
My money is on From failing to figure out optimization as deadlines loomed, so they just shut most of the new effects off to preserve framerate. The archived stream footage a few posts back highlights a real problem due to this: it seems the visuals really suffer in some places. The environments were designed with lighting and shadows in place. Just turning it off makes some locations look like complete crap.
Absolutely agreed, they pushed for something that they couldn't deliver on last gen systems and the game is heavily compromised for the bulk of their userbase.
I don't think anyone would have complained if the game just looked like DS1, I think both DeS and DS1 still look pretty damn good personally. The environmental art and lighting are both top notch in my opinion.
Dark Souls 2, atleast on last gen consoles, doesn't look as good as those games to me. Sure some areas look nice and maybe even nicer than previous games but most areas look straight up bad.
AzureSkies
Member
As someone who loved the beta (hell I made the network test thread), I'm pissed that the lighting system has been entirely removed from the game.
It worked really well, annoys me more when people say that the lighting and atmosphere doesn't matter in the Souls games, because it really does. Tower of Latria in Demon's would have been an entirely different experience if the area was fully lit at all times.
It worked really well, annoys me more when people say that the lighting and atmosphere doesn't matter in the Souls games, because it really does. Tower of Latria in Demon's would have been an entirely different experience if the area was fully lit at all times.
I don't think it was a matter of secrecy. I think the decision was a sudden one and they decided that their ass was covered when divulging the differences between the various builds. The game went gold extremely recently and the beta which was fairly recent had the dynamic lighting. They had a deadline and FROM couldn't complete their expected product on time.
Basically 100%
MrCookiepants
Member
Lighting looked way overdone in the previous build. The change may have been an artistic choice. Crappy Youtube caps don't do any game justice.
If it was an artistic choice then the decision wouldn't have been made so suddenly. This is not a case of artistic choice at all.
I am fairly sure the PC version will have it after all the showing off and bragging From were touting with the new lighting.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Most of that level only has ambient lighting so it's logical that the downgrades didn't affect it. For the boss room, the baked lighting seems to remain pretty much intact so we have confirmation that at least one room has been spared from the carnage
Well, except for SSAO, it's almost non-existent now.
gamerforever
Banned
Just think that PS4 version is looking more certain by the day!
Have this preordered and will probably keep it due to the steel art card from amazon, but would love a 1080p version with better lighting and a rock solid 30fps framerate (or 60 if they can manage it!)
Have this preordered and will probably keep it due to the steel art card from amazon, but would love a 1080p version with better lighting and a rock solid 30fps framerate (or 60 if they can manage it!)
The lighting effects were still in the network beta test builds that actual people played.
Edit: I see this was already answered.
I want to believe that the PC version will have all the new lighting but I don't think it will.
A likely scenario.
The most upsetting thing of all, for me.
The game has looked pretty ropey visually from our first peek at it. I know DeS and DaS weren't stunning games, but Dark Souls in particular looked alright, and had good animation.
This, on the other hand... This is really disappointing right now.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Why won't they show the PC version of gameplay?
Obviously you're entitled to your opinion but I do wonder what you'll be saying if the "way overdone lighting" ends up being in the PC version.
This is clearly not an artistic choice, moody lighting and dark areas have been one of their key goals from the beginning. They specifically said that they wanted darkness to play a major role in the game, that's why the game includes the torch mechanic.
Most likely because it's pointless. I believe the PC build will have better lighting than the console counter parts but it'll still lack the dynamic lighting.
Cloud Strife
Member
What's the possibility of a patch? Not too sure how these things work.
A simple patch is not going to include dynamic lighting.
Curious_George
Neo Member
If they ever intend to make PS4/XBONE versions it had better. Either that or they better patch it all back in before those get released or else they're going to have some pissed off PC consumers.
Do we have any video of the beta test? Once the game is out we could do a proper comparison, because comparing screens, some of which are from crappy streams is not the best way to do this.
It's clear the downgrade has happened, but I'd really like to see exactly what the effect looks like in motion.
It's clear the downgrade has happened, but I'd really like to see exactly what the effect looks like in motion.
Not really an indication that DS 2 is coming out on next gen consoles in the future, but this sort of reaffirms my beliefs that it's eventually coming.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775817&highlight=dark+souls
You'll most likely get the lighting system that was originally shown, 60fps and a res bump.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775817&highlight=dark+souls
You'll most likely get the lighting system that was originally shown, 60fps and a res bump.
Fried Food
Banned
How long after launch until we get quotes from the developers saying that they are sorry they failed (not saying they did). If Blighttown brought them on last time, this surely will bring something.
KennyLinder
Member
Preorder Defeated?
Think of getting Dark Souls II vanilla and then a year and a half later a Dark Souls II: Definitive Edition releasing. Because that's what's going to happen.
Fuck next-gen in mind. This engine was designed FOR the next-gen lol.
Krusenstern
Banned
If they removed these effects because they were too taxing then I doubt they will add them again.
Wolfe
Member
I don't disagree with you, but you need to realize that From can still be a good "company" regardless of what BS their publisher might be pushing on the public through the marketing/PR team. You also make it sound a lot simpler than it really is in regards to communication within the divisions.
I'm not saying that's for sure what's going on here as I have no fucking clue, and I'm also not excusing or having sympathy for what might be taking place but I am trying to be realistic about it. I agree that this industry is shitty in a lot of ways right now but one way I combat that is by not purchasing product if I'm upset with some aspect of it. Is the removal of my drop in the bucket going have any effect on things? Not likely but the industry is in this state partly because so many people do eat things up without question.
Anyway like I said I'm holding back on judging it until I've got the game in my console. Will I be disappointed if it doesn't look as good as those early screens, of course, I'm still going to have a blast playing the game though. I just found it ridiculous that people were calling From scum and whatnot yet till saying they were going to purchase the game and then to top it off I see you calling for them to atone for their embarrassment. If anything it was the wording you used as I don't have any problems with thinking they should release a statement about it.
But whatever, my apologies if I came off as an ass.
gamerforever
Banned
I played the beta on PS3 hardware, so it can't be a hardware based choice - they've done it for a reason...I have a few ideas behind it!
Has this been confirmed?
Windom Earle
Member
Another reason to wait for the PC version I guess...
gamerforever
Banned
Nope, but they backtracked on there being DLC and also went on about how the architecture had the current gen in mind.
Once sales have reached their target we will get a few announcements, much like GTA5.
Funny thing is I don't really approve of this, but will double dip on both because they are such great games (guessing DS2 will be at least as good as the original).
Nothing has been confirmed, but it really shouldn't surprise anyone if it did happen.
Romars202129
Member
The game comes out in two days, I really have no interest spending that time bitching about graphics online...
But let me just throw this out there, and I'm sure I'm not the first, maybe they took it out for gameplay reasons instead of technical ones? For instance, those shadows look cool, but maybe they make it really hard to see certain enemies, sudden pitfalls, ect? You know?
Also, is there really any reason to suspect these changes won't effect the pc version? I'd put my money on it being removed from that version as well, all I'm saying.
But let me just throw this out there, and I'm sure I'm not the first, maybe they took it out for gameplay reasons instead of technical ones? For instance, those shadows look cool, but maybe they make it really hard to see certain enemies, sudden pitfalls, ect? You know?
Also, is there really any reason to suspect these changes won't effect the pc version? I'd put my money on it being removed from that version as well, all I'm saying.
Understandable. Maybe I should have been more specific but I'm really mostly upset at Bamco, not From. If From can't get lighting to work, that's understandable to me. What is not okay is Bamcos misleading marketing tactics in this case. From certainly didn't do this kind of stuff before they were in bed with Banco, from what I remember. Bamco needs to release a statement about the changes From has made or whether they are planning on a patch or something, imo.
Uh, no. It's pretty obvious that the lighting engine was gutted.
Going by the screenshots that Bamco released this week it doesn't look much better.
Fried Food
Banned
The good lighting had been in the game all the way up to the beta. The game was basically designed with the good lighting. Now the lighting is removed and we are seeing just how bland and empty and boring some of the areas look.
There was a failure on the Dev's part. They waited to long to make the call on the console graphics and the areas couldn't be redesigned for one reason or another.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'll put it this way.
If Souls fans were technical graphics snobs, they wouldn't be playing Souls games.
The PS3 beta had the lighting but suffered in framerate.
The change in lighting screws with the art direction, and actually goes against what the developers said about using light and shadow for gameplay purposes. It's why the torch item exists in the first place.
Dude...
c'mon, it looks pretty much the same with 10x ao and 3x saturation
like seriously look a that big black stain on the back
it looks hideous
EatinOlives
Member
The lighting was put IN because of gameplay reasons. Areas were supposed to be pitch black until you took a torch out using your right hand, forgoing shield use in the process. You were meant to pick your ability to fight vs. visibility.
People now are claiming that the area looks gray but completely visible without a torch, and with a torch it just looks orange but still the same amount of visibility. It effectively removed that entire mechanic.
It's possible that the lighting system just wasn't feasible through the entire game, but for From to remove it knowing that the torch mechanic was going to be nixed in the process, despite them making a big deal out of it, is what's bothering people.
They didn't wait too long. It's bad planning. They believed they could get everything running and failed to and as a result the game, and in effect people who were hyped about the visuals, will suffer. It's similar in ways to Halo 2. Devs had a plan but there was just not enough time.
Fried Food
Banned
Bad planning in that they waited to long too waited/gave themselves too much time to make the call. We are saying the same thing. Now if you mean that the Devs had a particular solution that they wanted to implement, but couldn't considering the technology they were working with, I would say that they had a bad solution.
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