mario_O
Member
Well I don't get it..they had the new 'lighting engine' running on a PC, right? it was already done so why is it not there anymore?
Dark Souls II - Graphics Comparison - PC Preview
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Looking at the comparison, you can see that the PC version of that particular scene at least doesn't suffer from the "washed out" high gamma look the 360 version has. Even the skybox seems to be a darker shade.
That's another legend. The IGN footage shows the exact same gamma on the two versions.
It's simply how your TV/monitor is set up. Lowering gamma isn't rocket science.
because they realized with how many ambush attacks there are and how hard normal mobs hit that everyone would rage quit if they needed a torch instead of a shield in off-hand just to see
imo
vasametropolis
Member
Looks good to me. Not like pre-release but if it gets mods it'll probably be a treat.
TheCongressman1
Member
If this version was a port, I would understand. Well, let me rephrase that, if we weren't told this was supposed to be the lead version, then I would understand.
As it is, I will not give in and say, "oh you know, things happen". There's no reason why the early effects should be missing on the PC version. There has been a lot of dishonesty here already, so we may never actually know the reason the PC version is lacking.
The way they have handled this entire situation is sad, and I have lost a lot of faith in them. Things would have been much different had they been up front about all of this. But I won't give them a pass just because others that are ok with being lied to told me I should.
Because adding light sources to dark areas is impossible. If that actually was the reason they took it out, it has to be the most backwards solution I've ever heard.
As it is, I will not give in and say, "oh you know, things happen". There's no reason why the early effects should be missing on the PC version. There has been a lot of dishonesty here already, so we may never actually know the reason the PC version is lacking.
The way they have handled this entire situation is sad, and I have lost a lot of faith in them. Things would have been much different had they been up front about all of this. But I won't give them a pass just because others that are ok with being lied to told me I should.
Because adding light sources to dark areas is impossible. If that actually was the reason they took it out, it has to be the most backwards solution I've ever heard.
You're right. That's why they are considered to be "the bare mimimum." That's the exact phrase you used when you earlier indicated that games that had those options and ran at 60fps were the bare minimum. You said:
Then I proceded to provide plenty of examples demonstrating that these were not "bare minimum" attributes of PC games and in fact, many PC games have far lower options/settings.
You're right, which is why it's awesome that Dark Souls 2 runs native at 60 fps on PC because the console versions sure as hell never were going to get close and they could have keyed animations at 30 fps, but they didn't.
Which by definition would be a PC port that is better than the bare mimimum, one that had a "decent amount of effort" put into it. Referring to the same set of standards as "a decent amount of effort" and also "the bare minimum" is contradictory.
What "should be" the bare mimimum and what "is" the bare mimimum are two entirely different things. Yeah, I think it would be great, obviously, if every PC game had all these options as the "bare minimum" but they clearly don't. So let's give credit where it's due.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Oh, tell me more, please. Teach me the ways of lowering the gamma so these entire areas don't appear washed out anymore.
no way m8 from are a bunch of lying assholes
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
I fucking bet all or some of the missing lighting its still in the code but disabled and maybe with the help of talented hackers it can be restored. Stranger things have happened.
cripterion
Member
Looks like crap, at least they should have bothered to release an upgraded version on pc. I thought this was taking advantage of DX11? So it releases after consoles yet no enhancements?
But it's Dark Souls, people will reward them by double dipping
But it's Dark Souls, people will reward them by double dipping
Valkerionseven
Member
I randomly popped into the post release threads about lighting and was surprised that even gaffers were expecting or hoping for a different engine on the pc version.
There were a lot of gamefaqian posts made... but hopefully those people are back on Earth now.
There were a lot of gamefaqian posts made... but hopefully those people are back on Earth now.
WilltheMagicAsian
Member
I expected the PC version to be exactly this. Hopefully there will be some good mods, but this lighting really isn't that big of a deal to me. I copped DS2 for $27.50 on GMG after that 25% off code and $10 cash back anyway so the price was right.
TheCongressman1
Member
I'm 100% sure It still has the same engine they showed with the lighting, it's just that it no longer uses those effects.
Engines don't just handle lighting, so they didn't completely rewrite their new engine to not use the lighting. There isn't any reason why that they couldn't keep those effects for the PC version.
Looks like crap, at least they should have bothered to release an upgraded version on pc. I thought this was taking advantage of DX11? So it releases after consoles yet no enhancements?
But it's Dark Souls, people will reward them by double dipping
Higher resolution textures, higher shadow resolution, better AF, framerate, resolution, loading times, etc. aren't enhancements?
Valkerionseven
Member
I know that, I'm saying people were expecting, actually more like demanding the demo engine be used and its like... the console version is out there was NO WAY they would use it for the PC version, even if it can handle it or not.
cripterion
Member
These are pretty given considering the platform, are you telling me these guys put the effort on releasing a decent pc title?
I guess it couldn't be worse than their previous title having a person fix their game for free...
It was a lot of effort for them, I'm sure, and still a pretty big net improvement over the first game's port. I guess I'm just more excited than I am disappointed.
TheCongressman1
Member
Again, it's not really the engine changing, just effects being used. But why do you think they couldn't keep the effects for what they called the lead platform? They called it this to express how it wouldn't be directly effected by the console version, when it clearly has.
As I said in another post, part of it could be art reasons. They probably finalized each area's visuals after the downgrade, and those that had a semi-finished version with the full lighting were unfortunately brought down to match the rest. I personally would have accepted a longer delay if it meant remastering the whole game to look like the demos, but unfortunately that wasn't their course of action.
Saintguine
Member
Well, last time I'll blindly trust From Software.
Guess that leaves CD Projekt RED.
Guess that leaves CD Projekt RED.
cripterion
Member
I know they don't have a big budget, but I think the outcry comes from them showing something graphically superior early on... how much longer they need to get a free pass cause they released a "cult series"?
I think I am. The majority or profits are made from pre-orders and for about three months from release. Buying a title on sale is me voting with my wallet as a consumer (my only outlet). The value of their product is diminished in my mind because I do not feel they delivered a title in the fidelity their marketing initially indicated. I also do not feel they were upfront about this. Look at how Konami handled this in Ground Zeroes release.
I am not going to do FROM the disservice of buying the game used. (Not that I have a problem with those who buy used). But I do, in a small way, want to reflect my valuation of their product. Hence, I am not paying $49 dollars on day one for something that does not meet my expectations. I feel that this is my right. No matter if they realized their mistake or not.
TheCongressman1
Member
There's a couple of things I have a problem with this:
What kind of artistic changes would possibly be interfered with by adding dynamic lights? It's not like they would have to go back and rebake textures.
And again, with the lead platform situation, this shouldn't be an issue at all. They should have been able to optimize both versions. However it is quite clear now that talk was just hot air and they only worked on one version.
Zombie James
Banned
Watching the GB QL... Fuck, the lighting looks just as flat and basic as the console versions :/ Why was the good preview lighting scrapped for this version?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Until something similar/better to the cult series is release
Oracle Dragon
Member
Welp, that looks pretty much exactly like I expected. Of course I wanted more, but personally I'm happy with the results... thanks From, quite happy I preordered and standing by to give you another 300 hours of my life. My only complaint is I don't have it yet, gimme gimme gimme! 
ThaiGrocer
Member
It's still the cheapest, best looking game. Also gotta love the savings and bearable loading times.
I mean, is it really relevant? All folks can do there is speculate, when we have a full console version and PC impressions to base purchasing decisions off of now. The conversation surrounding marketing and early builds has been run into the ground at this point.
That TGS trailer they showed used code that was months old and was a fork of old code. By the time everyone saw it, the devs were already doing something different. This is pretty standard unless you are an indie dev, as bigger publishers know months and months before conventions happen and then ask the devs to give them something to present.
Indie devs will generally not have anything really ready until the day of presentation. For example, the Hate Plus lady was coding her sequel right on the show floor.
TheCongressman1
Member
Right, but the timeframe is pretty irrelevant here. What we want to know is the reasoning these effects were removed in the first place from the PC version, which is supposed to be the lead platform. How is it that PC could not handle the lighting that was shown?
Because devs make one codebase and trickle down to each platform. It's likely that the lighting isn't just a simple switch but something deep enough in the code that enabling it would require two different code bases, and from is not ubisoft or EA who can just throw money and people at a problem like that.
Look, I'm no expert on game development and I sure as hell don't know what happened inside From during this game's development, but it's clear you aren't either.
I do know that in my own field, it's really shitty when someone who doesn't know what they are talking about starts making a lot of presumptions about what is "wrong" and how it could "easily" be fixed. It's probably even more unfair when you automatically assume that the fix would have been simple and that therefore they they are either being lazy or just intentionally lying about the end result.
The bottom line is that it is a pretty shitty and presumptuous thing to do to assume someone else is being lazy or lying when you don't even know anything about the situation's development or even have any area of expertise in the field.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Wow just watched this :http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/gz2upr/dark-souls-ii-pc-preview
Guess From let us all down... gonna wait for the mods and get this game cheap. This is one time I am voting with my wallet!
Guess From let us all down... gonna wait for the mods and get this game cheap. This is one time I am voting with my wallet!
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Don't even think that's how it went down... game was downgraded really late in it's cycle, they just didn't bother keeping that built for the pc...
TheCongressman1
Member
If that's the case, then they should have not boasted the lead platform talk. I think it was quite obvious that the consoles would hold them down if they only developed a single version.
Like you said before, they were likely already on to another version of the game at the time of the presentation, so they should have had an even better idea of where they stood in that regard. It just comes down to them not being honest with their marketing.
However, I don't think the lighting had to be written out. There's still dynamic lighting being used, it's just a matter of light sources being taken directly out. So, if that's the case, then there's no reason why they couldn't have been easily replaced in the PC version.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Yep... I wouldn't be surprised at ALL... Definitive version of milking its fan base. Playing the waiting game, either get the definitive version or steam sale it with goddly mods.
If it didn't come to PC as well I would be disgusted.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
It wont if they make it... look at Tomb raider definitive edition, its not like that's coming to pc...
NICE! I had a 25% off voucher in my email. Thanks for letting me know friend! Ordered.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Applies here however...
SlasherJPC
Banned
*wrong DkS thread.
Given that we are talking about a theoretical version of the game that we have no evidence that exists and now are proposing how they will theoretically handle the theoretical version of that game and then using that as a means to judge this actual PC version, I'd say we left the realm of reasonable discourse some ways back.
TheCongressman1
Member
I would be all for giving them the benefit of the doubt with that, but no matter what happened during development they haven't been honest. They didn't respond to our concerns in any meaningful way, they just completely dodged the issue.
Also, I'd like you to show me where I said they were lazy. I'm not trying to belittle anyone, I'm just exploring likely scenarios. All I really want are some answers, and since they aren't going to give us any, all we can do is speculate.
I'll say this again as I have in another thread, I am not targeting anyone at From or Namco. But I think as a team they made some missteps with their project, and I don't like the way they have handled it. I just think we deserve an explanation.
No, again with more presumptions. First off there is the language barrier. Second, this is a private company developing a product. There isn't a bevvy of reporters clamoring at their door asking them burning questions nor do regular interviews. Treating this as if it's some sort of political scandal because some people on some message boards noticed some discrepancy between different builds of the game.
And I think it's pretty presumptuous for someone who doesn't know anything about game development to start talking about people who are in game development making "misteps" in their game development. Criticizing shit you no nothing about and making assumptions about it is poor form.