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Dark Souls III |OT+2| Why Can't We Poise the Game?

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
I'm on a SL1 and i have to kill Pontiff too, i'm rocking a RAW astora straight sword (+10) + red tearstone ring + hornet ring... when i parry+reposte him, i take more than 1/3 of his health!
My problem is that i can't figure out when it's the right moment to parry his first attack (my success rate is lower than 10%) and don't want to kill him if i haven't learned it...

Any hint?
My eyes popped when I saw the +10. I guess you've done the Dancer early? I'm shitting myself over the Dancer too since I still haven't got a handle on that fight at a regular level and always get through on brute force.

I would say watch LobosJr's SL1 run on youtube, he seemed to have the parrying down on the first attack and it seemed to be as the sword is over the Pontiff's head and quite close.

I'm using the small leather shield for the longer parry window it's the only parrying shield SL1 can equip I think (although I guess they all work for parrying whether you have the stats or not, they just don't defend?)
 

RiggyRob

Member
Got owned by the Katana NPC outside Firelink Shrine, even after doing a successful parry for the first (and most probably last) time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CYFVybn0cU&lost=PLnhwVsYSH1o1jW-5r-UfCbFz4VcQalzj5&index=3

Interesting they don't
give you any messages to 'turn back' from him! I assume we were correct in thinking he's the Dark Souls III equivalent of an NPC hunter - I imagine he dies permanently if you do manage to kill him. Having an overpowered NPC block your path is nice way of leading you to a certain path without you feeling like you're being pointed that way (although that is what is happening really).

It was also nice to hear Navlaan/Alvis's familiar voice too, even if he is just like the depressing guy next to the death tower in Majula.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Got owned by the Katana NPC outside Firelink Shrine, even after doing a successful parry for the first (and most probably last) time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CYFVybn0cU&lost=PLnhwVsYSH1o1jW-5r-UfCbFz4VcQalzj5&index=3

Interesting they don't
give you any messages to 'turn back' from him! I assume we were correct in thinking he's the Dark Souls III equivalent of an NPC hunter - I imagine he dies permanently if you do manage to kill him. Having an overpowered NPC block your path is nice way of leading you to a certain path without you feeling like you're being pointed that way (although that is what is happening really).

It was also nice to hear Navlaan/Alvis's familiar voice too, even if he is just like the depressing guy next to the death tower in Majula.

no, in the bonfire ya donut
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Got owned by the Katana NPC outside Firelink Shrine, even after doing a successful parry for the first (and most probably last) time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CYF...Qalzj5&index=3

Interesting they don't
give you any messages to 'turn back' from him! I assume we were correct in thinking he's the Dark Souls III equivalent of an NPC hunter - I imagine he dies permanently if you do manage to kill him. Having an overpowered NPC block your path is nice way of leading you to a certain path without you feeling like you're being pointed that way (although that is what is happening really).

It was also nice to hear Navlaan/Alvis's familiar voice too, even if he is just like the depressing guy next to the death tower in Majula.
He's uh... really easy lol
 
I usually just wait until a few level ups later to kill him, because his drops aren't that great unless you really want an early katana or roughly 2500 souls off the bat.
 
Well I had a go at Dancer on SL1 and it's pretty much a big nope unless I get amazing RNG.

In about a dozen tries I got her to the second stage once (second try I think), then most of the other tries were almost all immediately dying after buffing my weapon. My biggest barrier is I have absolutely no idea what attack she is going to do - I just blinding roll as soon as I see her do something, I just can't tell what she's going to do most of the time unless it's a grab or a one of the bigger slams, all her different slashes and twirls just look a like to me. I think this (and Pontiff probably when I try him) are a bit beyond my skill/patience threashold. I'm not one to bang my head against a wall for hours - I like quick results or I give up!
 
At 60 or so hours and just reached the final boss. The boss before that,
Lorian Elder Prince
had me stuck for several days and it was incredible. The feeling of mastering that battle after 20 failed attempts was so satisfying.

Concerning optional areas I might have missed....
is it really just Archdragon's Peak, Smoldering Lake, and Demon's Ruins? DS3 seems to have few optional zones.
 

Soulhouf

Member
Well I had a go at Dancer on SL1 and it's pretty much a big nope unless I get amazing RNG.

In about a dozen tries I got her to the second stage once (second try I think), then most of the other tries were almost all immediately dying after buffing my weapon. My biggest barrier is I have absolutely no idea what attack she is going to do - I just blinding roll as soon as I see her do something, I just can't tell what she's going to do most of the time unless it's a grab or a one of the bigger slams, all her different slashes and twirls just look a like to me. I think this (and Pontiff probably when I try him) are a bit beyond my skill/patience threashold. I'm not one to bang my head against a wall for hours - I like quick results or I give up!

Yeah, the Dancer and Sulivahn are the only 2 bosses I'm still having trouble with despite having beaten the game more than 15 times since the Japanese release.
Something about their movesets is unsettling and I have no idea what kind of attack they are going to perform each time.
 

JDB

Banned
I'm on a SL1 and i have to kill Pontiff too, i'm rocking a RAW astora straight sword (+10) + red tearstone ring + hornet ring... when i parry+reposte him, i take more than 1/3 of his health!
My problem is that i can't figure out when it's the right moment to parry his first attack (my success rate is lower than 10%) and don't want to kill him if i haven't learned it...

Any hint?

EDIT: Nvm, done.
How'd you get a +10 weapon that early?
Well I had a go at Dancer on SL1 and it's pretty much a big nope unless I get amazing RNG.

In about a dozen tries I got her to the second stage once (second try I think), then most of the other tries were almost all immediately dying after buffing my weapon. My biggest barrier is I have absolutely no idea what attack she is going to do - I just blinding roll as soon as I see her do something, I just can't tell what she's going to do most of the time unless it's a grab or a one of the bigger slams, all her different slashes and twirls just look a like to me. I think this (and Pontiff probably when I try him) are a bit beyond my skill/patience threashold. I'm not one to bang my head against a wall for hours - I like quick results or I give up!
It took me 40+ tries easily in my SL1 run. I love the her animations, but it definitely makes her the hardest boss to read.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
That's how good the Manikin Claws are, both in PvE and PvP.

I can't believe they're getting a buff on Friday, this is going to be glorious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJo7MrdZxxc

EDIT: And that's without buffing with resin, which adds substantial damage.

Awesome! They're great against Lothric Knights, right? Have you tried stacking Pontiff's Right Eye and Carthus Beacon with them? Highly recommend it, man.

PvP is a little different though. They work really well in enclosed spaces but in a more open arena its considerably trickier.
 

kaos.

Member
How'd you get a +10 weapon that early?

I have two weapons at +10 (raw longsword and raw astora straight sword) because i did the dancer very early (immediately after high lord wolnir): first slab from siegward's quest, the second one picked near havel.

EDIT: Anyway, i destroyed Sulyvahn... i'll post the webm as soon as encoding'll end.

EDIT: here it is:

http://b.1339.cf/bmxdcfr.webm

It's nothing special (parry+reposte+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1...+r1), but i liked my dmg output very much (it's a SL1).
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
PvP is a little different though. They work really well in enclosed spaces but in a more open arena its considerably trickier.
Yeah, having played with claws (not manikin, just regular ones, but still) I can say that they're really bad against invaders who run away and roll spam a lot. They have shit range and bad tracking.

I'm curious, other than the weapon arts, which does seem better for Manikin (the leaping attack with regular claws seems really shite), what's the diffence between Manikin Claws and the regular Claws?
 
Awwwwwh yeah, got Darkmoon Blade last night. I never had to farm for proofs either; I just kept Blade of the Darkmoon on at all times and slowly chipped away as a Bluebro.

Now to pay it forward, I've been running around with Way of Blue on and using a Dried Finger. Had some great fights last night using some different weapons - mainly Cathedral Knight UGS, Profaned UGS, Drang Hammers, and the regular Greataxe. Surprisingly I was most successful with the Drang Hammers. Those things kick ass!
 

jonjonaug

Member
Well I had a go at Dancer on SL1 and it's pretty much a big nope unless I get amazing RNG.

In about a dozen tries I got her to the second stage once (second try I think), then most of the other tries were almost all immediately dying after buffing my weapon. My biggest barrier is I have absolutely no idea what attack she is going to do - I just blinding roll as soon as I see her do something, I just can't tell what she's going to do most of the time unless it's a grab or a one of the bigger slams, all her different slashes and twirls just look a like to me. I think this (and Pontiff probably when I try him) are a bit beyond my skill/patience threashold. I'm not one to bang my head against a wall for hours - I like quick results or I give up!

For me it was way different, I thought most of her moves were predictable but the grab kept killing me.
 
So, given the success of the first one, let's make another one. All these cocky manikin claws users can prove if the are really OP lol

Same as last time:

This weekend

PS4

Saturday 21:00 GMT (9:00 pm)

That's 16:00 EST (4:00 pm) and 14:00 PDT (2:00 pm)

Take care about your summer times and all, here's a cool site to compare timezones and hours:

http://time.is/compare

That dosn't mean we'll start exactly at that hour, but rather a time to put in common so we'll know more or less when to start. We probably will stay for some time, so just join when you can.

Rules:

- No healing (obviously)

- Buffs allowed

- No dark sword

- No bitching, we probably are a varied group of individuals that are spread around the globe, lag is gonna be a thing, we should try to have fun and just that.

- No tournament, just people dueling each other in some kind of king-of-the-hill thingy: two players fight, winner keeps fighting until he loses, rinse and repeat. We need a host, and he probably wants fun, so he can join if he wants, I think we should rotate hosts so everyone can have some fun regularly.

- First buff is free, both players can buff once before attacking each other, any other buff will have to happen midfight.


I'm keeping the old spreadsheet, so update your info or join at will

Quote to see it



PC people are free to use the spreadsheet and organize a paralel event.
But majority of people are on PS4, I hope you can have some fun too.

Elysium was very kind to host like 90% of the time. So please let's try to share this duty, remember to have
Aldritch
alive, otherwise host can't summon more than 2 reds.

Finally, I'll look into creating a PS4 group, or if someone wants to create one, instead of waiting for me, please do so. But I think we should still coordinate in this thread, is probably easier.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
So, given the success of the first one, let's make another one. All these cocky manikin claws users can prove if the are really OP lol

Same as last time:

This weekend

PS4

Saturday 21:00 GMT (9:00 pm)

That's 16:00 EST (4:00 pm) and 14:00 PDT (2:00 pm)

Take care about your summer times and all, here's a cool site to compare timezones and hours:

http://time.is/compare

That dosn't mean we'll start exactly at that hour, but rather a time to put in common so we'll know more or less when to start. We probably will stay for some time, so just join when you can.

Rules:

- No healing (obviously)

- Buffs allowed

- No dark sword

- No bitching, we probably are a varied group of individuals that are spread around the globe, lag is gonna be a thing, we should try to have fun and just that.

- No tournament, just people dueling each other in some kind of king-of-the-hill thingy: two players fight, winner keeps fighting until he loses, rinse and repeat. We need a host, and he probably wants fun, so he can join if he wants, I think we should rotate hosts so everyone can have some fun regularly.

- First buff is free, both players can buff once before attacking each other, any other buff will have to happen midfight.


I'm keeping the old spreadsheet, so update your info or join at will

Quote to see it



PC people are free to use the spreadsheet and organize a paralel event.
But majority of people are on PS4, I hope you can have some fun too.

Elysium was very kind to host like 90% of the time. So please let's try to share this duty, remember to have
Aldritch
alive, otherwise host can't summon more than 2 reds.

Finally, I'll look into creating a PS4 group, or if someone wants to create one, instead of waiting for me, please do so. But I think we should still coordinate in this thread, is probably easier.

Woo! I'm down for that. May be a bit later.

I'm curious, other than the weapon arts, which does seem better for Manikin (the leaping attack with regular claws seems really shite), what's the diffence between Manikin Claws and the regular Claws?

A negligible amount of damage. Manikin have like 5-10 more. Also: FashionSouls. I want blades not fucking garden rakes.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
What are you guys infusing your manakin claws with? Hollow?

EDIT: looks like they get A scaling with Dex with Sharp, that's pretty good.
 

2AdEPT

Member
Dayum! How many attempts did that take?!


I'm at Irithyll on my SL1 run, so Pontiff next. I watched LobosJr's SL1 fight against Pontiff and it went pretty easy, I just know I'm not going to get the good RNG though, plus parrying, urgh!
Too many to count...many deaths in the first phase even....I bet I only practiced the 2ND phase 10 times as most deaths occurred seconds into the 2nd phase as my denial was cracked and I got hit right away on the magic spam or first attack. That's the way challenge runs go for me....feel like it's impossible...then when I watch the video it seems like it was easy.

Keep going on your SL1 ...as much as I hate relying on RNG, you will get a decent run of it eventually.

I will likely go hard tonight and clean up the last two bosses so I can get into NG+ for the manikins... I wanted them for this character but they didn't drop / didn't get the Invasion at all actually.
 

neoism

Member
So, given the success of the first one, let's make another one. All these cocky manikin claws users can prove if the are really OP lol

Same as last time:

This weekend

PS4

Saturday 21:00 GMT (9:00 pm)

That's 16:00 EST (4:00 pm) and 14:00 PDT (2:00 pm)

Take care about your summer times and all, here's a cool site to compare timezones and hours:

http://time.is/compare

That dosn't mean we'll start exactly at that hour, but rather a time to put in common so we'll know more or less when to start. We probably will stay for some time, so just join when you can.

Rules:

- No healing (obviously)

- Buffs allowed

- No dark sword

- No bitching, we probably are a varied group of individuals that are spread around the globe, lag is gonna be a thing, we should try to have fun and just that.

- No tournament, just people dueling each other in some kind of king-of-the-hill thingy: two players fight, winner keeps fighting until he loses, rinse and repeat. We need a host, and he probably wants fun, so he can join if he wants, I think we should rotate hosts so everyone can have some fun regularly.

- First buff is free, both players can buff once before attacking each other, any other buff will have to happen midfight.


I'm keeping the old spreadsheet, so update your info or join at will

Quote to see it



PC people are free to use the spreadsheet and organize a paralel event.
But majority of people are on PS4, I hope you can have some fun too.

Elysium was very kind to host like 90% of the time. So please let's try to share this duty, remember to have
Aldritch
alive, otherwise host can't summon more than 2 reds.

Finally, I'll look into creating a PS4 group, or if someone wants to create one, instead of waiting for me, please do so. But I think we should still coordinate in this thread, is probably easier.

could you up the meta level.. im 161 ng+ on ps4
 
I'm down for this!
I volunteer to host a big chunk of the event but I don't have Aldrich alive unfortunately :(
Can we do it in Hight Walls of Lothric instead (1st bonfire) ?

I'm in and prefer High Wall actually

High Wall is ok too.

could you up the meta level.. im 161 ng+ on ps4

Your stats should be normalized, we already played with someone with more level and wasn't noticiable.

Is for fun, nothing serious.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Reddit are at it again wanting to nerf everything. Now they want to nerf rolling because when they invade someone the host rolls a lot.

They keep forgetting that without rolling as it is right now, invaders wouldn't be able to survive 30 seconds against a ganksquad. Rolling helps invaders, not hosts that have 3 summons with them.

I really hate how the community has developed into "I lost to someone wielding that, so I'll demand a nerf immediately".
 
Reddit are at it again wanting to nerf everything. Now they want to nerf rolling because when they invade someone the host rolls a lot.

They keep forgetting that without rolling as it is right now, invaders wouldn't be able to survive 30 seconds against a ganksquad. Rolling helps invaders, not hosts that have 3 summons with them.

I really hate how the community has developed into "I lost to someone wielding that, so I'll demand a nerf immediately".

Can From just take all those filthy casuls and put them in a separate server? Kinda of like how GTA V puts all the dirtbag cheaters, and heist abandoners in their own server? Honestly they bitch about every single item that they lose to. If a player kills em, they're either cheating, hacking, or using some OP crap that has to be nerfed. but if they kill someone, their stuff is balanced and they just got gud.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Can From just take all those filthy casuls and put them in a separate server? Kinda of like how GTA V puts all the dirtbag cheaters, and heist abandoners in their own server? Honestly they bitch about every single item that they lose to. If a player kills em, they're either cheating, hacking, or using some OP crap that has to be nerfed. but if they kill someone, their stuff is balanced and they just got gud.

It did develop into "my stuff is cool, nerf everything else plz" lol, I get that some things are unbalanced and need adjustment, but by lurking reddit, you'd think every single weapon and spell is OP.

I'm glad from doesn't listen to them, DS3 would be unplayable within a few updates if they did.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Reddit are at it again wanting to nerf everything. Now they want to nerf rolling because when they invade someone the host rolls a lot.

They keep forgetting that without rolling as it is right now, invaders wouldn't be able to survive 30 seconds against a ganksquad. Rolling helps invaders, not hosts that have 3 summons with them.

I really hate how the community has developed into "I lost to someone wielding that, so I'll demand a nerf immediately".
LOL, pathetic.

I said it before and I'll say it again: when everything is OP, then nothing is.
 

Mistel

Banned
It looks awesome, but I found the moveset to be pretty standard for DS3. I've not messed about with it a whole lot l. On paper, the 30% damage bonus from the WA seems like a great deal, especially with the decent scaling. Problem is, this is all built on one of the lowest base damages for katana with a buff that lasts for something like 15 seconds or so. Unless you're into playing really dangerously, multiple buffs are a no-go: the damage you take and how high the bleed metre cranks are way too much. It's a wildly inefficient piece of kit really. You need those buffs to make it competitive but there's only a short window in which it is. Couple that with the short range and I find i'm chasing people down desperately to make the most of it rather than considering the moves and fighting properly. That's PvP, of course; some of that's mitigated in some of the fat boss fights and short mob clearances.

Maybe a very aggressive playstyle with hyper mode on (ToD, Morion and RTSR) would work with it but I've not tried that.

For me, the best katanas at the moment are O&U (buffable, L2 chews through health and has a nasty phantom range, and the Onislayer WA is perfect for chase downs/punishing) and Black Blade (shit range but buffable, highest katana AR, great tracking on 2H R2, and access to the Hold WA). Pre-patch the WP was the undisputed king.
!
O&U are definitely up there although not my favorite twin weapons the Gotthard and Warden are more useful I feel in general. An ultra aggressive bloodlust build might work but you'd run into a dps race and probably get out damaged easily by a less resource intensive build.
Can From just take all those filthy casuls and put them in a separate server? Kinda of like how GTA V puts all the dirtbag cheaters, and heist abandoners in their own server? Honestly they bitch about every single item that they lose to. If a player kills em, they're either cheating, hacking, or using some OP crap that has to be nerfed. but if they kill someone, their stuff is balanced and they just got gud.
Whilst the Dunce/Cheater server idea was a good one GTA Online is not the best examples it has numerous issue on that whole system which mire its effectiveness.
I'm curious, other than the weapon arts, which does seem better for Manikin (the leaping attack with regular claws seems really shite), what's the diffence between Manikin Claws and the regular Claws?
Manikin Claws are also a bit longer than the Claws giving them better range.
 
Spent hours tonight at A
rchdragon
P
eak
getting invaded with Dried Finger + Way of Blue. So much fun! I got a lot of the same red invaders over and over again, but got a good variety of Bluebros. I mostly tried to let them 1v1 each other, but often it would turn into a brawl.

squidyj I think you might have invaded me once. Your character's name is The Avocado, right?

I really hate how the community has developed into "I lost to someone wielding that, so I'll demand a nerf immediately".
This is every online game though

Lol yep. Just look at the Overwatch threads. "Omg I got killed by ___! So OP!"

i3JvExh.jpg
 
This is every online game though

True. But Dark Souls mainly because of how unique a build can be. Like MOBAs some heros, champions, Gods, etc can be OP but some are balanced. In FPS games some guns, attachments, perks, etc are OP but others are balanced. Dark Souls some players feel that any weapon that kills them is OP.

O&U are definitely up there although not my favorite twin weapons the Gotthard and Warden are more useful I feel in general. An ultra aggressive bloodlust build might work but you'd run into a dps race and probably get out damaged easily by a less resource intensive build.

Whilst the Dunce/Cheater server idea was a good one GTA Online is not the best examples it has numerous issue on that whole system which mire its effectiveness.

Manikin Claws are also a bit longer than the Claws giving them better range.

It was the only example I could think of that people would probably know about :p. Are the other online games that do such a thing?

Spent hours tonight at A
rchdragon
P
eak
getting invaded with Dried Finger + Way of Blue. So much fun! I got a lot of the same red invaders over and over again, but got a good variety of Bluebros. I mostly tried to let them 1v1 each other, but often it would turn into a brawl.

squidyj I think you might have invaded me once. Your character's name is The Avocado, right?




Lol yep. Just look at the Overwatch threads. "Omg I got killed by ___! So OP!"

i3JvExh.jpg

One of the only things that was actually really OP in Dark Souls was Dark Magic in Dark Souls 1. Not only was it insanely powerful, but people without the DLC could be invaded by people with the DLC(not an issue on PC since we got the DLC for free). This is me facing the final boss of Dark Souls 1 on NG+++(it's at a minimum NG+++ because the catalyst halves the spell and I still have two stacks worth of it). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_nCed101ec
 

kaos.

Member
Well I had a go at Dancer on SL1 and it's pretty much a big nope unless I get amazing RNG.

In about a dozen tries I got her to the second stage once (second try I think), then most of the other tries were almost all immediately dying after buffing my weapon. My biggest barrier is I have absolutely no idea what attack she is going to do - I just blinding roll as soon as I see her do something, I just can't tell what she's going to do most of the time unless it's a grab or a one of the bigger slams, all her different slashes and twirls just look a like to me. I think this (and Pontiff probably when I try him) are a bit beyond my skill/patience threashold. I'm not one to bang my head against a wall for hours - I like quick results or I give up!

Try this (it was my set-up): embered, hp always full, Lloyd's Shield Ring and Lloyd's Sword Ring equipped, stay always behind her butt.
On Monday morning I will upload my sl1 dancer battle (it is nothing special), maybe it could be useful to you!
Anyway, i did the webm of my sl1 battle vs champion gundyr because I like it so much:

http://b.1339.cf/exexuip.webm

I hope you'll like it too. :)
 
Well DS games had always balance problems, so yeah it's easy to have more than one weapon OP given the number of them, or even some specific subset of weapons or magic. But altering rolls is such a big significant change, it's just stupid, it could break the game entirely.

The only weapon I want nerfed is Dark Sword, is just ridiculous to have a such strong straight sword with the same speed as others.
 
Try this (it was my set-up): embered, hp always full, Lloyd's Shield Ring and Lloyd's Sword Ring equipped, stay always behind her butt.
On Monday morning I will upload my sl1 dancer battle (it is nothing special), maybe it could be useful to you!
Anyway, i did the webm of my sl1 battle vs champion gundyr because I like it so much:

http://b.1339.cf/exexuip.webm

I hope you'll like it too. :)

I hate you. You do not realize the number of attempts I had to do, to defeat him on my SL 130 character. And that was on NG+ which quite honestly is like 10% harder than NG. I'm not looking forward to fighting him in NG++
 
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