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[theSlacker]

I was, at first, but I wanted to get some pale tongues, so I started using the red orbs too. It's funny when Aldrich Faithfuls or purple phantoms mistake me for the host since I always wear the untrue dark ring for Fashion Souls. xD

It's a bit annoying that your bloodstain is where you die in the host's world though... I mostly cleared my map of enemies so it's at least safe to go pick it up if I do die, but it's a little tedious. Fortunately I usually win so it's not too much of an issue. xD

Lost a bunch of souls because of that and just forgetting to go collect them. In the end it doesn't really matter though since how easy it is to over level and how easy it is to farm a ton of souls if you want.

 

[Hentailover]

While I agree the quest are obnoxiously obtuse, when do you want to complete them, it's kinda interesting conceptually. What NPC quests are is basically a bunch of people walking around this world, tending to their own business. Sure, if stars allign just right and you happen to meet them in all places you can something get special, akin to a story line to happen. What are the chances of that ever happening? I dunno, it's kinda a neat thing to think off, Even if it is ultimately detrimental to the game

 

[StoppedInTracks]

No, "we" really do not. If anything I'm kinda disappointed that there wasn't more hidden quest stuff that I missed. Like half of the complaints in the post you quoted were "well I never fully explored and decided that without a quest tracker and glowing icons that I should never go back to an area".

Did you even read my post?

It was not about "never fully exploring" because I explored fully every single area. It was about backtracking through already fully exlplored areas.

We had this discussion two pages ago already.

 

[Lanrutcon]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

Wow. Don't hold back, you weren't defending the shitty quest design quite hard enough there.

I expect better of you next time.

 

[daninthemix]

Has anyone done an Anri SS luck build?

 

[StoppedInTracks]

I see where you're coming from, but this is part of the charm of the Souls games. The point of this stuff is that there is a community-based approach to finding all these secrets - very similar to PT. The problem is that with the t'internets and people's desire to get everything done in one playthrough (I count myself among this group), it kinda ruins the community discovery idea. The last time we really had this was when Demon's Souls was first released - each game since then has had more and more revealed within launch day guides etc. It's a shame, but I can't really blame From for not putting everything on a plate for us.

I know and I understand but I still think they could somehow made it a little bit less relying on revisiting old areas. This is the problem. Revisiting Firelink Shrine is super fine but revisiting Catacombs after doing Demon Ruins and Wolnir? For *unknown* reason where you are already in the Irythill? Or even if you did Sirri stuff correctly you have to go back on the Irythill bridge... go back instead of going forward from Central Irythill bonfire. That does not make sense at all. Sorry but it does not. It's pure luck based.

Patches was just bugged. I played offline and pre-patch so there it is. Maybe I would have seen Patches after... the Patch, heh.

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

Edgy.

You seem to confuse being complicated with being obtuse, and being clear with being hand-holdy.

This game's quests are not hard in the sense that requires logic to figure out how to solve a problem. The quests in this game are literally "go here, kill that, take that, buy that".

Take that example of a sidequest where you have to reload an area just to meet a NPC.

Can you, confidently, say that you are so "smart" that at that point your logical thinking prompts you to reload the area and not miss that quest?

People complete that quest either by luck when they backtrack to that area for some reasons or they are the types that spend time scouring every areas again and again after an event takes place, or play multiple playthroughs of the game.

Other people just like to proceed with the story and move on, with the thoughts of future events will have some sort of indications to make them know where to continue said sidequest.

But by all means, act all high and mighty, if it helps you feel better.

 

[knitoe]

Has anyone done an Anri SS luck build?

I did on my 4th char lvl 105 plat run. Running 40 luck / 50 faith, a Anri +5, lighting ring, lightning blade and sacred oath was 711AR.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

If I had not have read the internet, I would have even been aware there were NPC side-quests.

They are intentionally obscure.

 

[daninthemix]

I did on my 4th char lvl 105 plat run. Running 40 luck / 50 faith, a Anri +5, lighting ring, lightning blade and sacred oath was 711AR.

I'm thinking of just luck (no faith), using the Carthus buff for bleed.

 

[knitoe]

I'm thinking of just luck (no faith), using the Carthus buff for bleed.

Without faith, the dam is so much lower, slightly less than 400AR. There might be better option for luck / bleed build.

 

[kvn]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

Wtf has "being smart" to do with these obfuscated quests? Are you serious?

 

[daninthemix]

Without faith, the dam is so much lower, slightly less than 400AR. There might be better option for luck / bleed build.

I mean there aren't many options if you want to level just one primary stat yet have 400+ AR from a fast weapon, and the quick bleed will be a nice bonus for bosses.

...at least that was my line of thinking.

 

[Sarcasm]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

The quests are horrible. No matter of intelligence or smartness (or the stupid saying of git gud) would even remotely help you in the souls series when it comes to quests. Unless you download the wiki after many people have done many NGs. Morrowind, as you did not need a freakin wiki for everything or many unnecessary play-throughs.

Souls NPC quest lines are the equivalent of eating butter out of a 3L container like in that one movie (Idiocracy).

 

[mxgt]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

You're just not smart enough to arbitrarily walk back to that well for no reason after already clearing the area!

 

[knitoe]

I mean there aren't many options if you want to level just one primary stat yet have 400+ AR from a fast weapon, and the quick bleed will be a nice bonus for bosses.

...at least that was my line of thinking.

Your thinking is correct if you are only mainly lvling one stat, luck. Doing a low lvl build?

 

[Agent_4Seven]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

Now that's just stupid as fuck.

Being smart enough to be able to figure out this cryptic shit has nothing to do with any of my complaints. And just so you know, I'm exploring every pixel in these games in search for every secret, armor set and stuff like that but side quests... they are just terrible, stupid and too cryptic in terms of design, period. And don't tell me that you've completed all quests (or even just 2 or 3 of them) in DS III without guides and online help, that would be straight out lie.

There's absolutely no need to hold the player hand from start to finish to be able to make more compelling, interesting quests but From doesn't even trying.

 

[Randam]

Now that's just stupid as fuck.

Being smart enough to be able to figure out this cryptic shit has nothing to do with any of my complaints. And just so you know, I'm exploring every pixel in these games in search for every secret, armor set and stuff like that but side quests... they are just terrible, stupid and too cryptic in terms of design, period. And don't tell me that you've completed all quests (or even just 2 or 3 of them) in DS III without guides and online help, that would be straight out lie.

There's absolutely no need to hold the player hand from start to finish to be able to make more compelling, interesting quests but From doesn't even trying.

You're not supposed to solve them all on your first playthrough.

 

[Ferr986]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

I'm sure you did beat all the quests without looking online, seeing how smart you are.

 

[test_account]

I got my first Wolf invasion today! Now i only need 9 more convenat items for Wolf of Farron and i'm done with all the covenants. I got finished with the Darkmoon grinding yesterday. I also need ~20 more dregs for Aldrich covenant, but thats not tied to trophy/achievements.

I know and I understand but I still think they could somehow made it a little bit less relying on revisiting old areas. This is the problem. Revisiting Firelink Shrine is super fine but revisiting Catacombs after doing Demon Ruins and Wolnir? For *unknown* reason where you are already in the Irythill? Or even if you did Sirri stuff correctly you have to go back on the Irythill bridge... go back instead of going forward from Central Irythill bonfire. That does not make sense at all. Sorry but it does not. It's pure luck based.

Patches was just bugged. I played offline and pre-patch so there it is. Maybe I would have seen Patches after... the Patch, heh.

To be a bit fair, the first time you meet Anri and Horace, Anri mention Cathedral of the Deep and that they seek the Cathedral. But yeah, the Sirris quest on the bridge gives you absolutely no hints as far as i know. So thats pretty much luck based to go back to the bridge and you need to have used an ember (i think?), something i rarely do on my first playthrough.

 

[mxgt]

You're not supposed to solve them all on your first playthrough.

But you should be able to solve some.

The quests involve needless backtracking at random points and don't even give any kind of information (lore, items, etc) on where to go. They're just really poorly designed, even compared to the previous entries.

Like

Spoiler

Leonhard's for example, you have to go back to Rosaria's room after killing Yhorm. ?????? genius quest design!

 

[myco666]

Quest design is fine. Sure they are obtuse but thats how they always were. Bigger issue is how easily you can bug them if you don't go the exact order the game wants you to go.

For example Siegward. If you go to the dungeon before kitchen say bye bye to his armor since you won't be able to get it then. That kind of stuff is dumb especially when you see two paths next to each other and decide to take the other one and then the quest is bugged. They should be less strict about some conditions but otherwise they are fine.

 

[Randam]

To be a bit fair, the first time you meet Anri and Horace, Anri mention Cathedral of the Deep and that they seek the Cathedral. But yeah, the Sirris quest on the bridge gives you absolutely no hints as far as i know. So thats pretty much luck based to go back to the bridge and you need to have used an ember (i think?), something i rarely do on my first playthrough.

I don't know why, but I went back on the bridge and found her summon sign

 

[ogbg]

While I agree the quest are obnoxiously obtuse, when do you want to complete them, it's kinda interesting conceptually. What NPC quests are is basically a bunch of people walking around this world, tending to their own business. Sure, if stars allign just right and you happen to meet them in all places you can something get special, akin to a story line to happen. What are the chances of that ever happening? I dunno, it's kinda a neat thing to think off, Even if it is ultimately detrimental to the game

Exactly! They aren't 'quests'. They're just things that happen in the world which make the game slightly different every time.

 

[Randam]

But you should be able to solve some.

The quests involve needless backtracking at random points and don't even give any kind of information (lore, items, etc) on where to go. They're just really poorly designed, even compared to the previous entries.

Like

Spoiler

Leonhard's for example, you have to go back to Rosaria's room after killing Yhorm. ?????? genius quest design!

Yeah, but not on your first playthrough.
And when doing your second, you should take the same paths, as before.

 

[dude]

I mean, I wouldn't want any in-game journal of indications in the game for quests, but a character saying stuff like "You know, I saw that guy walk over to the cathedral" just to give you clue would be nice. I don't think all the quests require online reading, but some of them are just too obtuse to decipher without guides...

 

[Red Liquorice]

Yeah, side quest (and quests in general) in Souls games is absolute shit in terms of design and you can't complete them without online help or step by step guides (which is not fun btw and you don't have to read all of this shit and waste your time searching the web). Does it really that hard to make traditional quests instead of this cryptic bullcrap? Just stop if From! I know that Souls games is not a traditional RPGs but for fuck's sake From, we need quests with traditional and WAY less cryptic design to be able to complete them on our own and without wasting time.

Now, in terms of story and lore it's fine and I don't have anything against it, but quest and side quest in general are terrible in Souls games and there's no way around it.

I think if you're just playing the games once and want to see all the content, biggest bang for your buck, I can people having this opinion - but for those of us who play the games repeatedly I welcome the hidden areas and cryptic questlines.

I'm just now on my second playthrough and using a guide/wikis to get all the NPC stuff I missed first time around. Right now DS3 seems really finicky in terms of when and what triggers NPC events, but it's probably no different to the earlier games I just have those events and questlines burned in to my brain I don't even think about them.

I didn't miss any areas - anyone who's played a previous game knows to look for illusory walls and those dragon guys sat looking out was obvious - I even sat there using several of the other sitting gestures for a while to see what would happen, then soon after you get the dragon gesture, it was obvious what it was for.

 

[test_account]

I don't know why, but I went back on the bridge and found her summon sign

If i remember correctly, i did find the summon sign outside

Spoiler

Great Cursewood Tree

myself on NG Pretty much just luck though, as i went back to explore some more, eventhough i had already beaten that boss.

 

[Sarcasm]

Exactly! They aren't 'quests'. They're just things that happen in the world which make the game slightly different every time.

Then don't tie items to them. Let it just be lore and dialogue.

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

I didn't miss any areas - anyone who's played a previous game knows to look for illusory walls and

Spoiler

those dragon guys sat looking out was obvious - I even sat there using several of the other sitting gestures for a while to see what would happen, then soon after you get the dragon gesture,

it was obvious what it was for.

This example is different because it gives people hint due to how interesting it looks, unlike those backtracking instances people are complaining about. I am a newbie, DS3 is my first game, I don't even use gesture much except when saying hi to other people because I always thought it's just for communicating purpose but that is already enough for me to go there and try out different ones.

It's all I ask really, a hint, however subtle it maybe.

 

[Boogdud]

Smart enough, lol. You have to be clairvoyant to get 90% of these quests. Most of them couldn't be more obtuse if they tried. It would be one thing if they were all just fluff or just nods to the old games but a lot of them are tied directly to the story. It's a pretty bad design, if your goal is to tell a story.

They come across as someone trying to be clever most of the time. When in actuality the quests boil down to: exhaust dialogue, come back later, get item, give item, exhaust dialogue, kill boss, etc. etc.

 

[daninthemix]

Your thinking is correct if you are only mainly lvling one stat, luck. Doing a low lvl build?

I wanted to stop at SL100 so I can still co-op between 80-120.

With 40 END and 40 VIG that's 100.

Edit: have a few points spare so I can go 20 / 20 str / dex for some extra AR and equipment choices.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

To be a bit fair, the first time you meet Anri and Horace, Anri mention Cathedral of the Deep and that they seek the Cathedral. But yeah, the Sirris quest on the bridge gives you absolutely no hints as far as i know. So thats pretty much luck based to go back to the bridge and you need to have used an ember (i think?), something i rarely do on my first playthrough.

Yes she mentions that. Then you go and kill the Abyss Watchers and do Demon Ruins. You even kill Wolnir and are met with the mystic wall in Irythyll.

Then you go to the Cathedral and get the Doll. You even get to talk Anri again after that (I did!).

You never ever go back to Catacombs as you teleport right back to Irythyll.

You are unable to finish Anri quest then.

Is that the wrong order? No... I went to the Cathedral as she said. And I met her in Firelink after that. But how would I know she would be in the Catacombs after that?

There is just no way. That's the problem. Not a single hint other than they went to... Irythyll. But... they cannot be found there! That is not the wrong order - that is a wrong design IMO.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I would've never got the ones where you had to go back

Spoiler

across the bridge

, but I think maybe that's an event you would see if you didn't have the

Spoiler

doll

and had to backtrack?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Patches isn't in Firelink and instead stays in the cathedral everytime I see him. How do I send him to Firelink so I can have geriet go pillage

 

[Yoshichan]

Patches isn't in Firelink and instead stays in the cathedral everytime I see him. How do I send him to Firelink so I can have geriet go pillage

Spoiler

Buy the 20k key, go up the tower, then down. Look at the door that just closed.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

did ds1 or ds2 have similar questlines? Where you have to re visit areas? I don't remember..

I don't think it was ever hinted regarding Sirris summon sign on the bridge.

 

[Red Liquorice]

did ds1 or ds2 have similar questlines? Where you have to re visit areas? I don't remember..

Griggs would go hollow in Sen's, Laurentis in Blighttown, Logan in Seath's first room, Rhea in the Dukes prison area (depending on the order you do TotG and Dukes). Solaire appears back at the Sunlight Altar at one point after Anor Londo, but it's just dialogue.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Spoiler

Buy the 20k key, go up the tower, then down. Look at the door that just closed.

Yoshi what if I already did that before I got to the cathedral

 

[mulac]

Just can't bring myself to farm for covenants without the

Spoiler

Mimic Head.

Onwards to NG+ we go.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yoshi what if I already did that before I got to the cathedral

I did that on my first playthrough. Never saw him.

 

[Yoshichan]

Yoshi what if I already did that before I got to the cathedral

Has he tricked you into entering the bridge yet?

If yes:

Spoiler

If you meet him again on the other side of that bridge infront of Rosaria's chamber, he will apologize for tricking you, gifting you the prostration gesture and a rusted coin. He will then become a vendor in that spot until he moves to Firelink Shrine

 

[Agent_4Seven]

I think if you're just playing the games once and want to see all the content, biggest bang for your buck, I can people having this opinion - but for those of us who play the games repeatedly I welcome the hidden areas and cryptic questlines.

That is not the case here. I do multiple playthroughs of each game in the series and I know just as all of you that you can't see or experience all content in one playthrough (it is simply impossible in Souls games), but that's not a topic of this discussion at all, well, at least not when it comes to quests which you can (and you can) complete in one playthrough.

You're not supposed to solve them all on your first playthrough.

But you can do most of them in one playthrough aside from the ones which unlock different endings, but because you don't even know how to start / trigger them or when and at what point in time you must be to do (or not to do) various things and at what order.... it is simply impossible, and if you do know how to do it, many people even then ending up failing one or two of them while trying very hard to complete them, so WTF is that if not terrible, stupid and too cryptic design and why so many people saying it's fun?

Again, I have nothing against things that you need to figure out or find on your own, but quests in Souls games is too much and not fun at all and if for some it's fun it does not mean that for others it is fun too. So please people, deal with it and stop saying that the players who can't find or start quests in these games are dumb or not smart as you, cuz it is dumb and not smart of you to say such things. And by saying "WE" I meant people that are feeling the same as me about all this.

Peace.

 

[Novocaine]

Just can't bring myself to farm for covenants without the

Spoiler

Mimic Head.

Onwards to NG+ we go.

If you're on PS4 I have an extra you can have if you want it.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Are people getting Patches lock them in the tower before they meet him in the Cathedral, because I kept checking the tower throughout, and he only appeared after the Cathedral event for me. My first playthrough I missed him completely he just appeared as a merchant at some point.

 

[pringles]

@bolded 1
You can, but you're just not smart enough.

@bolded 2
No it's not difficult to do a traditional, hold-your-hand quests like the hundreds of JRPGs and WRPGs are already doing. But why should they? Because people like you can't figure it out?

@bolded 3
YOU need, not "we". Don't address everyone else like they're part of you.

Lol. There's nothing smart about these NPC quests. They're not meant to be clever. They're clearly designed to be more random, to make each playthrough unique as you stumble your way through these quests. I don't really have a problem with it but they seem to have gone a bit too far with it in DS3. There's quite a few times when you have to go about things in an order 99% of players probably wouldn't naturally.

There shouldn't be questmarkers, but there really shouldn't be so many ways to fail questlines. That's what pushes me to check the DS wiki more than anything.

 

[Hentailover]

The thing about quests is that you can look at them from a gamer's standpoint, wanting to experience all of that, and from From's standpoint.

I am personally convinced, Idea of players not being able to know or find something , or missing a crucial element gives Miyazaki erection. Remember world tendency system in Demon's? Do you honestly believe a person that came up with that gives a single fuck that some player somewhere missed a piece of content? He probably gets off on that, if anything...

I should be angry at that approach, but I kinda find it amusing... at least when i'm not trying to complete those quests myself.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Has he tricked you into entering the bridge yet?

If yes:

Spoiler

If you meet him again on the other side of that bridge infront of Rosaria's chamber, he will apologize for tricking you, gifting you the prostration gesture and a rusted coin. He will then become a vendor in that spot until he moves to Firelink Shrine

So I did all of that but I can't get him to leave the bridge. I just started Irythil and want to send Geriet but I don't want him to die

 

[greatestjediever]

Just can't bring myself to farm for covenants without the

Spoiler

Mimic Head.

Onwards to NG+ we go.

Same, I was farming concords for hours and only got 10 since I missed it. Figured I would need to do at least two more runs anyway for platinum, so might as well start NG+.

 

[Hentailover]

So I did all of that but I can't get him to leave the bridge. I just started Irythil and want to send Geriet but I don't want him to die

Is it even possible to save greirat on the first playthrough? You can save him first time, but second time requires a second set of Catalina's armor, no?