I really doubt that he wants people to actually miss out stuff but rather encourage people to talk to each other. If he actually wanted to people miss out on stuff these games would be way more obtuse than they are now.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dark Souls III |OT2| Welcome to NG+, Unkindled One
- Thread starter Yoshichan
- Start date
- Status
I really doubt that he wants people to actually miss out stuff but rather encourage people to talk to each other. If he actually wanted to people miss out on stuff these games would be way more obtuse than they are now.
Toytown Assassin
Member
Just go up and down the lift at firelink. It should trigger him to appear even if you did it already earlier.
StoppedInTracks
Member
They could just drop a single line of cryptic dialogue for the Maiden or the Old Hag that sells stuff like: "Oh that Darkmoon Lady went missing mumbling something about Ithryll entrance", or "I've heard the Knight lady and her Guardian were preparing holy weapons for Undead/ Skeleton encounters" etc.
It would not be a pointer, quest marker or anything like that. Just a cryptic, semi-hidden message that would be fitting into the game world and *maybe* make some players search those areas (if they know what area is referenced) again.
I don't know. There is not a clean-cut way of fixing this puzzle vs obscure balance. Some people like it the way it is, some find it a little bit unfair.
It would not be a pointer, quest marker or anything like that. Just a cryptic, semi-hidden message that would be fitting into the game world and *maybe* make some players search those areas (if they know what area is referenced) again.
I don't know. There is not a clean-cut way of fixing this puzzle vs obscure balance. Some people like it the way it is, some find it a little bit unfair.
Hentailover
Member
They openly admit there are pieces of story that they know but players will never be able to know.
Plus, once again, World Tendency system.
test_account
XP-39C²
Good point, i didnt think about that possibility.
Benzychenz
Member
If the quests were pure world building I wouldn't mind them being obtuse, in fact make them more obtuse.
Have 100 different NPCs where each quest cancels out another for all I care.
But the fact that spells/rings/gestures are tied to them changes everything, and I feel they should be a little more straightforward, or at least not have the tiniest little things work as fail states.
Have 100 different NPCs where each quest cancels out another for all I care.
But the fact that spells/rings/gestures are tied to them changes everything, and I feel they should be a little more straightforward, or at least not have the tiniest little things work as fail states.
BlitzEngineer
Member
Souls fanatics love it just as much as Miyazaki does. Who cares if it's obscure, unfun, and poorly thought out; if it's tough on the player Souls can do no wrong. Even if a quest redesign would actually make sense and make the game more fun to play, if it makes it "easier" it's ruining what makes a Souls game a Souls game.
Truth is, so few people have ever had the organic experience of actually just stumbling on these quests. The grand majority of players, including players defending this tripe, just end up looking them up once they want a certain item anyway.
It's plain and simple bad design.
That would be great. Didn't Dark Souls 1 kinda do that? I remember there always being someone who says where certain NPCs went.
Well those story pieces are cut out so you can't really miss out on that content. Even then stuff like that is done so that there is room left for speculation as to what has happened.
And as for World Tendency that is exactly about having people telling each other their findings and trying to figure out stuff together. Sure someone will miss out on content because of it but that is not the purpose of it.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ooh okay I never tried that
Benzychenz
Member
On the topic of these quests, I've gone back after the final boss and found Sirris's summon sign at the Irythyll bridge.
But now she's not at Firelink to give me the cat ring? I assume that last bit has a time limit on it, which is odd considering the previous part didn't.
But now she's not at Firelink to give me the cat ring? I assume that last bit has a time limit on it, which is odd considering the previous part didn't.
Nah, he used to play differently and also edit his videos in a different way as well. You'll see this in his blind LP for the JPN copy of Dark Souls from way back. He used to edit down and sped up the runbacks which he hasn't done at all in his current LP which makes the boss fights more frustrating to watch. His other LPs weren't blind so they were more informative than being a pure LP which is another reason they were less frustrating to watch.
I don't think it's fun to watch his current LP as a new viewer because part of the fun is seeing his pure reactions to the new stuff. I'm still bothered by the way he's handling the bosses so I'm gonna be skimming through them when he decides to keep killing himself just to see all the moves.
Hentailover
Member
There's actual plenty of Bad design in Souls games all around, it takes some honesty to admit it, most fans try to pretend that there isn't instead of admiting that good design parts overweight the bad.
But, as stated, I personally have a thing for these obtuse quests, because I rarely bother doing them, but to me there's something charming about them being so "fuck you, figure it out, asshole". I dunno, maybe it's just because I love other people's suffering.
StoppedInTracks
Member
For me it wasn't a possibility but a reality of my playthrough :'(
Still I love this game to death. Can't get enough of it. Best Souls game except Demon's. Flawless
The only good thing is it gives me an incentive to do them in NG+.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, i just mean the possibility of finishing the catacombs first, then doing the Cathedral. Even doing so, i see that there is no hints given that they're heading that to the catacombs, so its indeed hard to know if playing in that order.For me it wasn't a possibility but a reality of my playthrough :'(
Still I love this game to death. Can't get enough of it. Best Souls game except Demon's. Flawless
JetSetRadio
Banned
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
All the NPC/quest stuff is done better in the other games in the series. Onionbro aside its all a bit characterless and half-baked. Worst of all its way too familiar, the minimal amounts of dialogue provide no cover to how its just regurgitating the same old gimmicks/tropes from previous games.
Oh yea, ENB was the one who started the Dark Souls challenge runs against the bosses way back and created a bunch of copycats. He's pretty good at the game. I would say he's doing pretty good in his current LP against the bosses if he didn't focus so much on learning the patterns in a way that I find unnecessary.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
How far into the game is Irithyll?
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Roughly halfway.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Great thanks
There are glaring issues in each one of the games, even the most current. But it is true that the good outweighs the bad, that's why people love them and are willing to overlook them. For example I'm willing to overlook Lost Izalith because places like Undead Burg and Darkroot Garden were so awesome. Or that bullshit Frenzy mechanic in Bloodborne because trick weapon combos felt so satisfying.
Jamesways
Member
Ok, second character, doing an Anri sword luck/dex build. Through this one, every now and again I've been sunbroing against the Dancer with folks. Typically getting beaten down, it's much harder with 3-4 people with the HP boost the boss gets.
So it's been a gauge through the playthrough. Finally last night get to her after in my game after Yhorm. My first playthrough I summoned after failing several times solo.
I've been prepping and anticipated this fight this time all game.
It was so anticlimactic. With some Carthus Rouge on the sword it was almost trivial with 40 luck. After so much practice with others, and no boosted HP from summons, I couldn't believe how quick she went down.
Still, one of my favorite Souls boss fights in all the games. Love the design, music, and moveset.
I'm thinking of respecing, the 25 dex really isn't doing much with the 40 luck. I've read the luck/faith may be the way to go for really getting OP.
I summoned for a few tough fights the first time, it's fun to realize how far I've come to take these same fights solo without much trouble.
NK will still be really tough I'm sure though.
So it's been a gauge through the playthrough. Finally last night get to her after in my game after Yhorm. My first playthrough I summoned after failing several times solo.
I've been prepping and anticipated this fight this time all game.
It was so anticlimactic. With some Carthus Rouge on the sword it was almost trivial with 40 luck. After so much practice with others, and no boosted HP from summons, I couldn't believe how quick she went down.
Still, one of my favorite Souls boss fights in all the games. Love the design, music, and moveset.
I'm thinking of respecing, the 25 dex really isn't doing much with the 40 luck. I've read the luck/faith may be the way to go for really getting OP.
I summoned for a few tough fights the first time, it's fun to realize how far I've come to take these same fights solo without much trouble.
NK will still be really tough I'm sure though.
Well, to use Anri as an example,
when you first meet him at Road of Sacrifices, he tells you they're going to the Cathedral of the Deep. After the Cathedral of the Deep, in Firelink Shrine, he tells you Aldrich is actually from the Boreal Valley, and that's where they're headed, through Farron Keep.
I'm imagining you can miss this if you go through the Catacombs before doing the Cathedral of the Deep, but he did tell you they were headed there, so it's to be expected that you wouldn't see him if you don't go to the Cathedral.
I'm imagining you can miss this if you go through the Catacombs before doing the Cathedral of the Deep, but he did tell you they were headed there, so it's to be expected that you wouldn't see him if you don't go to the Cathedral.
Because I think it's fun.
Yeah, that would be fine. Andre would probably fill that role perfectly, I'm actually disappointed at how little he has to say.
That's usually the role of the crestfallen,
but he vanishes for some reason. Unless I failed his quest.
About Anri, though,
Irithyll is thorugh the Catacombs. If you don't find him in Irithyll, I don't think it's that unintuitive to look for him in the Catacombs. The hint would be that you got the dialogue after the Cathedral, so they're only now going through the path you did.
Worst case scenario, you'll find it on your second playthrough, doing things in a different order. But as I said, I totally get why people wouldn't find that appealing.
Worst case scenario, you'll find it on your second playthrough, doing things in a different order. But as I said, I totally get why people wouldn't find that appealing.
My favorite Souls game is one of the easiest in my opinion (Bloodborne, except for the DLC), so I really don't think that has anthing to do with it. Maybe some people just disagree with you on this.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I found the Shrine Handmaiden amusing.
Turn in Dreamchaser's Ashes: "I can't emphasise enough how worthless these ashes are. Why would you even bother bringing them to me? Where did you even find these?
Turn in Excrement-Covered Ashes: "What you got there? Some ashes mixed in with dog shit? GRACIOUS, HOW FINE.
Turn in Excrement-Covered Ashes: "What you got there? Some ashes mixed in with dog shit? GRACIOUS, HOW FINE.
they should've had more unique dialogue for every Ash you turn in. At least Andre has unique dialogue for every Coal, iirc. Missed opportunity.
Hahahaha, that was awesome, indeed.
Finally started digging into this game. Soooooo good. Went into
shit was hard as fuck. Haven't had that hard of a time since ds1. Took me about 4 hours to comb that area over and beat everything. The linearity bothered me at first, but with how large the areas are and how lost I am getting in them it doesn't feel like it matters anymore.
smoldering lake right after catacombs
Agreed, as someone who talks to every NPC every single shit that happens, some times it's a bit disappointing how no one reacts to anything.
You ring a fucking bell in Dark Souls 1? HOLY FUCK YOU RANG THE BELL? DAAAAAAAAAYUM.
You kill a Lord of Cinder, or
find an ancient place referenced multiple times during the game, even in the face presets
To be fair, Ludleth does change his dialogue after you kill a Lord of Cinder, but not enough, IMO. I was actually expecting to see the Lords revived on their thrones, I couldn't wait to talk to them during the rest of the game, but nope. I actually thought it was kind of neat how they subverted my expectations, and Hawkwood even comments on this, but then they should make up for it with Ludleth providing some more information on each Lord you defeat, or something like that. Speaking of which, I was also expecting Ludleth's story to evolve a lot more, but I suppose I still have a long way to go, maybe later.
Also true, the most I got out of her was
when I accidentaly killed her when testing a weapon. After I stopped freaking out and reloaded the area, her dialogue was REALLY good.
The boss was really awesome. My #1 or #2 favorite fight, so far.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Yeah, this.
I was expecting some fancy stuff in the Shrine alas... obvious and missed opportunity.
Don't read it Gbraga:
I was actually SURE Ludleth would run away and transform into some evil boss. It's kind of nice how they surprised me that he... didn't and just died there on the spot.
Also wheres the bonfire Mimics?
StoppedInTracks
Member
And total deaths count.
Yea, I liked that altho they could always do something with him in DLC.
Red Liquorice
Member
The Firekeeper isn't just the worst level up waifu, she's one of the worst Soulsborne characters ever. She has zero personality.
lordfuzzybutt
Member
Bro, did you see her twirl?
She doesn't have to have a personality to be a waifu.
I think it's kind of the point? I mean, there's a
pit full of dead firekeepers, all of them identical to the one we meet
Just beat
... what a great fight. I also love when you understand who he is within the Lore...one of the big questions from DkS 1 gets answered !
Only the
to go! Loving the game. Might be the second most consistent Souls game in terms of overall quality throughout the whole thing (first is Bloodborne for me)
Nameless King
Only the
Grand Archives
Red Liquorice
Member
Yes I guess that's true. I just wanted a few more dialogue changes as you progress, that would've done.
They could've done more. and yes, more dialogue from beating the various Lords would've been something.
Yeah it's amazing. I'm using it with 40STR/40FAI/Lightning Clutch ring and it owns. What's your stat spread? I wouldn't mind more FP to use the weapon skill more...
Do we have any information at all on the DLCs? Like, where they take place? It would be awesome to get one in Londor or Carim.
This:
And also,
So I don't have much of an issue with her lack of personality, what bothers me is just lack of more dialogue. The Doll also didn't have too much, now that I think about it. Maybe it was just spaced better on my first playthrough. I got the Tower Key too early, and got acces to one of the very few dialogue variations, which is the equivalent to the Hair Ornament in Bloodborne, I guess.
I'm assuming she'll have at least one more dialogue before her final one,
Yuria makes up for it!
This:
And also,
try killing her and reloading the area. Her dialogue further explores that. Ludleth's dialogue on the Fire Keeper being a prisoner kept to link the fire also works torwards that.
So I don't have much of an issue with her lack of personality, what bothers me is just lack of more dialogue. The Doll also didn't have too much, now that I think about it. Maybe it was just spaced better on my first playthrough. I got the Tower Key too early, and got acces to one of the very few dialogue variations, which is the equivalent to the Hair Ornament in Bloodborne, I guess.
I'm assuming she'll have at least one more dialogue before her final one,
in the sun leaking phase of the game. Assuming that isn't just right at the end.
Yuria makes up for it!
Ain't got shit on the Maiden in Black or the Emmy Hemmy that's for sure.
even the Doll was more interesting
Pejo
Member
If you give her the
eyes of a firekeeper, she gets more personality, speech options, and the music of Firelink Shrine changes.
- Status