Haha. That would be awesome.
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Dark Souls |OT4| Victory achieved for Scamco, text defeated
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I think FROM is probably happy with the way the forest turned out. They intended for it to be a free for all pvp zone. They put phantom mobs in there to help demonstrate pvp, made them agro everyone except the forest covenant and then made you open for invasion killing said mobs. The phantoms are also on the way to the boss as well, so they are tough to avoid. FROM thought out most mob placement and zones, so I have to think all the chaos in the forest was intention. After you gear up some, the forest is a pretty fun zone. You will run across some griefers, but you also meet some max lvl people who run over the aholes.
I would say keep the burden system like it is and change some items/equipment properties:
1- Make the flip with the DWGR possible only under 25%
2- Make the heavy/middle armor/weapons heavier
In the 1.05 patch they made things worse by increasing the initial equip load.
In Demon's Souls it was impossible to roll normally with Biorr's Set for example because it was so heavy. If they do the same thing in Dark Souls it will fix many of the issues we currently have.
Red Liquorice
Member
I was in the forest yesterday with my new sorcerer character, health is super-low, so when I got invaded I used Chameleon, and successfully evaded the invader for about 15 mins - I was near the door first, then had to fight 2 of the NPCs and ran past Alvina to the other area - I admit it was kind of tedious, but he must've rolled off a cliff in desperation as I got 'invader vanquished' message and 15,000 for my patience!
On the forest area - I'd wondered how to get the item you see on the way to the door/bonfire, forgot about it with my first character - I was stumped, I looked all over, thought it was some false wall in the tower past the butterfly or something, first time I've ever used the binoculars. Eventually googled it, and discovered the entrance, totally missed it the first time, I was flabbergastered! That wierd sting-ray frog enemy down there is the only place you find them in the whole game, seems odd - or maybe unfinished?
On the forest area - I'd wondered how to get the item you see on the way to the door/bonfire, forgot about it with my first character - I was stumped, I looked all over, thought it was some false wall in the tower past the butterfly or something, first time I've ever used the binoculars. Eventually googled it, and discovered the entrance, totally missed it the first time, I was flabbergastered! That wierd sting-ray frog enemy down there is the only place you find them in the whole game, seems odd - or maybe unfinished?
PetriP-TNT
Member
I usually do it TotG -> Archives -> New Londo Ruins -> Lost Izalith but it doesn't really matter. NLR has the easiest enviroment but maybe the hardest boss IMO. If you can handle Archieves you really shouldn't have much problems with Seath.
edit: like Zertez said it's "best" to do NLR first but I think most if not all players miss being a Darkwraith on the first run (mainly because you will see Frampt first and come on, you don't say no to a friggin' hideous creature that you are sure that is going to fuck you up) so it doesn't matter that much
Red Liquorice
Member
Seath was the easiest boss of the four IMO. 4 Kings was no problem too, you just have to attack hard and fast, so high stamina is useful. ToTG was horrible all the way through! It felt like the last area to me because it was a pain in the ass!
I recommend this order:
1- New Londo (to get the very large ember)
2- Duke's Archives (if you care about Siegmeyer's quest)
3- Lost Izalith (to get the sunlight maggot and complete Siegmeyer's quest)
4- Tomb of the Giants
I always do New Londo first for 2 reasons:
- I prefer to go with Kaath
- To get the awesome very large ember
1- New Londo (to get the very large ember)
2- Duke's Archives (if you care about Siegmeyer's quest)
3- Lost Izalith (to get the sunlight maggot and complete Siegmeyer's quest)
4- Tomb of the Giants
I always do New Londo first for 2 reasons:
- I prefer to go with Kaath
- To get the awesome very large ember
It is a little late now, but it is best to do New Londo first. In order for a covenant to open up, you have to kill the 4 Kings before placing the Lord Vessel. The chance to join it disappears after you place the LV. Outside of TotG, the other places are locked and only the LV opens it.
I got to the Four Kings, fought the third king down to half HP but then I died. Before I go back in I wanted to go over some equipment strategy.
Armour - I can see heavy armour working well here. There isn't too much rolling or avoiding attacks, just circling the kings. Should I wear a heavy suit (Stone, Havel) or stick with the medium armours (Ornstein) in order to keep the movement and roll?
Weapon - My Black Knight Sword was okay but didn't once stagger them. I might be able to do better with another weapon. They're undead, I see, so they should be vulnerable to fire. I can use a Fury Sword or I can use a Flaming Greataxe. Light, fast weapon or big, heavy hitter? What do you think?
Shield - They used a bit of magic against me so Havel shield was good. Should I stick with it and bear the weight or will I be fine slipping down to something like Giant Shield or Astoria Shield?
I put my summon sign next to the fog gate for a while but there were no takers. I'm at SL 105 so maybe I'm too high already.
Armour - I can see heavy armour working well here. There isn't too much rolling or avoiding attacks, just circling the kings. Should I wear a heavy suit (Stone, Havel) or stick with the medium armours (Ornstein) in order to keep the movement and roll?
Weapon - My Black Knight Sword was okay but didn't once stagger them. I might be able to do better with another weapon. They're undead, I see, so they should be vulnerable to fire. I can use a Fury Sword or I can use a Flaming Greataxe. Light, fast weapon or big, heavy hitter? What do you think?
Shield - They used a bit of magic against me so Havel shield was good. Should I stick with it and bear the weight or will I be fine slipping down to something like Giant Shield or Astoria Shield?
I put my summon sign next to the fog gate for a while but there were no takers. I'm at SL 105 so maybe I'm too high already.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
Unless im missing something, if you want to be able to summon someone for help, you do NOT put a summon sign down. That means that someone can pull you into their game. To see a summon sign to bring someone into your game to help you, you just have to be human and wait to see a summon sign on the ground. Is that not right? That's how ive been doing it...
I guess you are working at FROM since you know what they were looking for, but I don't agree. It's really easy to avoid being invaded in the forest, that's not a problem. The problem is being farmed as a forest hunter. Once in a blue moon you'll invade someone that isn't standing around waiting. But I guess they wanted it to be an arena for level 200+ bros that willingly put one humanity at stake to get a billion souls per hour by ganging up on weak invaders.
The fact that you can and will get indicted whenever you win as a forest hunter is funny though.
Ventilaator
Banned
Beat Ornstein&Smough and it showed me several new areas that now opened up. I knew the one next to the Anor Londo bonfire, because I had walked up to the orange door before and knew it was a path that probably opens up later, but I honestly have no idea what those other places were because I totally don't remember coming across more blocked doors like that one was. I am currently looking for a Let's Play on Youtube from that spot just so I could see the cutscene again that showed the new areas so maybe I'd recognize them.
Also, I loved how my whole plan for O&S (Kill the fat one, then the other one won't be a problem) was immediately ruined after the fat one was dead. If you kill the little one first, does the fat one do some powering up in a cutscene as well?
Also, I loved how my whole plan for O&S (Kill the fat one, then the other one won't be a problem) was immediately ruined after the fat one was dead. If you kill the little one first, does the fat one do some powering up in a cutscene as well?
Red Liquorice
Member
Yes, and which ever you kill last is the one who drops their armour set.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yes, but super smough is much, much easier than super ornstein. He's basically no different than his regular form. Super ornstein is a jackass though, especially with that skewering move he does.
H_Prestige
Banned
I say just get rid of the DWGR. No need for anyone to ninja flip. The 25/50% system they have is already perfect, but the DWGR just throws a wrench into it all.
Ventilaator
Banned
That's a pretty cool balance then. When there's two of them, I find the fat one to be way easier to kill, and that's balanced by making the other one a bigger pain in the ass a result. I like that.
So I watched the scene where they show you the new areas that unlock again on Youtube. There's the one that leads to the Duke Archives, then there's the one that looks like it's at that place where the big fire monster was after Quelaag, but what's the third one?
Oh I know. I was fine with helping someone else before I cleared my own game. No takers though.
From firelink, head left - you'll see skeletons - going that way will eventually lead you to that other new area.
And yeah Ornstein and Smough is an absolute genius boss fight. It's awesome solo, and is also one of the best bosses to co-op. Plenty of ways to approach the fight, different rewards depending on whom you kill last, and excellent music. I do prefer Ornsein's armor so I always kill him last.
I haven't tried it yet myself, but I hear the Dark Hand is ridiculously effective against them.
I found the Four Kings so easy, and beat them on my first try. They barely ever hit me, as their attacks are easy to dodge.
Now, the Bed of Chaos, holy shit. I can't believe how much trouble I had with that battle. I died like 7 times.
Just get high poise, get in their face and whack away. I just used 2H since damage was to me was negligible and getting them down was the priority.
bed of chaos isn't too bad if you just a homeward after each section
So I'm a little confused how pvp works here. I was invaded twice in blighttown (for some reason I stayed human after kindling the bonfire) and I easily killed the first guy and not only did I get souls but I got his butcher sword he was using.
The second guy just beat the shit out of me but when I went back to my spot I got all of my souls and humanity back. I thought you at least lost that upon being killed? And why was I able to take that first guy's sword?
The second guy just beat the shit out of me but when I went back to my spot I got all of my souls and humanity back. I thought you at least lost that upon being killed? And why was I able to take that first guy's sword?
That first invader was maneater mildred who is just an NPC. NPC invaders usually have drops. And dying from an invader is just like dying normally, if you make it back to your blood stain you can get your souls and humanity back (you'll lose human status though).
if you go human again you can now summon maneater mildred before the boss door for that fight.
That's cool I guess. I don't really like being human in this swamp though, I have enough issues to deal with then invaders lol.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Well, I just gave away my other copy of the game to corrupt another soul with this game 
Even my first run through i caught the "oops" spoiler on the maggot helm and have never gone to TOG prior to DEmon's ruins, at least for the helm, if not completing the whole level. THat said, I enjoy having access to Patches' equipment as early in my playthroughs as possible, hence I have always been in TOG (and demon's ruins fo rthe gold set and embers in addition to maggot) before completing any lordvessel bosses. People need to learn to be creative in this game, get the equipment they want as early as possible and forget about linear progressions. I disagree this is only reserved for "subsequent" playthroughs. Since there is the BB glitch for subsequent playthroughs, this apsect of "get your equipment in the best order" for a virgin run becomes even more special and exclusive.
There isn't any real disadvantage in becoming human at the bonfire before queelag though, particualrly if it is your first run, as mildred will prevent any invaders who are attempting to patch in to the area get connected. Plus, you could easily run to the boss door and boot an invader out at that point if you wanted to. I would have to say I have been invaded very rarely a tthat spot for that very reason despite ALWAYS being human there...experienced invaders know not to go there (although I have seen a lot of Mildred immitators, several of which were decent fighters using the poor authentic equipment of course)...inexperienced ones are welcomed! ;p
Damn me and mildred had quelaag down to half health and I hadn't taken any damage yet. Then she trapped me in a corner and got me with that god damned lava. So depressing knowing you had a likely victory only to watch it disappear in about 5 seconds
yeah the lava is dificult to find resistance to early on, in particular its frustrating to be so close to the gold hemmed set at tha point but not be able to get it prior to killing queelag...there is the set you can find in the swamp accross from the bonfire which has good poison resist...usually use it for queelag....but I think leathers are also pretty decent at fire resist as well as poison early on IIRC the anti curse set or the ninja set from blighttown (upper) is not fire resistant...you should be able to withstand a bit of lava with good armour and health...the AOE from queelag is another story....anything less than full health and you approach OHK territory....
can anyone confirm if the AOE is magic or fire ???? Iforget, or have it mixed up with Stray demon in my mind I think?!?!?!?
By "find" does that mean you have not found this key before, or done this questline before??? just checking!?!?!;P Sounds so easy, and not very time consuming, the way you put it.
It's not so much that I couldn't resist the fire that much, but she trapped me in this corner where I had her front-left of me and the wall behind me and to my front-right. So when she poured the lava out I was stuck and I had to just watch myself slowly die lol.
I have the black leather set combined with the gargoyle helm and spider shield for poison resist but my elite knight stuff seems to work better on her so I switch to that right before the door (slightly more fire resist than the leather, not to mention better physical reduction). I have that dragon crest shield too that I managed to ninja from that snoozing dragon outside the entrance to blighttown. It killed me once but I managed to die far enough way to get my souls back
SiegfriedFM
Member
The key with Quelaag is having someone to distract her, and keeping track of what she's doing. If she's leaning down over the spider body, she'll do the AOE so move back. Anything else, just stay behind her or attack ranged.
And aiming for her legs instead of going for the body. Helped me to keep a safer distance between me and her.
But yeah, bringing someone to the fight helps A LOT.
PetriP-TNT
Member
@2AdePT - Like someone in this topic said, going through TotG w/o the helmet builds character. If you have just started playing the game, I'd say the last creative thing would be checking where the best weapons are and rushing into get them. "Get the equipment in the order" makes much much much more sense and I guess that's what most do anyway.
If you just follow a "Do this before Z and Y and you will be unstoppable at lvl X." guide on your first playthrough you are kinda missing the point. What you do after you have reached a point where you have the basics down (I'd say after Anor Londo), it's same to me do you start a new game and get the stuff you want or use the BB glitch.
My NG+ was much much more interesting because I followed pretty closely how the developers meant the game to be played. I pretty much did the whole game as "wrong" as I could and it was very exciting. With NG++ I followed a different route I made up just for laughs. And now I am playing LVL1 game. That's where the creativity is.
And don't get me wrong, I used the wiki on my first playthrough too, to make me understand how certain things work and it did make me a better player.
Died at least 7 times on the archers in Anor Londo today. It's a bitch to do on LVL1 because you don't really have any poise at all. I was so close one time but the archer just didn't want to fall.
If you just follow a "Do this before Z and Y and you will be unstoppable at lvl X." guide on your first playthrough you are kinda missing the point. What you do after you have reached a point where you have the basics down (I'd say after Anor Londo), it's same to me do you start a new game and get the stuff you want or use the BB glitch.
My NG+ was much much more interesting because I followed pretty closely how the developers meant the game to be played. I pretty much did the whole game as "wrong" as I could and it was very exciting. With NG++ I followed a different route I made up just for laughs. And now I am playing LVL1 game. That's where the creativity is.
And don't get me wrong, I used the wiki on my first playthrough too, to make me understand how certain things work and it did make me a better player.
Died at least 7 times on the archers in Anor Londo today. It's a bitch to do on LVL1 because you don't really have any poise at all. I was so close one time but the archer just didn't want to fall.
Learning not to depend on lock-on too much provides you with a lot more situational awareness because you can actually see what the boss is doing.
so we agtree? that creativity makes for a richer playthrough, but I disagree this is what most do, certainly not the majority of palyers playing this game.......maybe not even most on this community board!
I agree, I never advoacvted for x y z and certainly siad nothing about "unstoppable", merely that you have the ability to do what you want in the order you want. I said I caught the maggot knowledge by accident and chose to getitbefore finishing TOG on my first playthrough, but also clearly stated I did all the patches stuff without the helm.....the point being MY creative path and choices were not affected by others PERCEIVED impression of what the developers had in mind (which ironically was wide open choices not linear path), but rather my OWN impression.
Beleive me, I am going to curb my guide consultation even more for Dark Forest. I guess we will not know what the developers secretly had in mind for a "recommende path"...goign all the way to anor londo without deviating from the common wiki recommended path is NOT it. They did say that they wanted the game to be more wide open for the player to make their own choices....to be honest, I beleive I did that on my first playthrough closer than what you describe in NG+. I think that those of you who are playing this now, and did not play this game or demon's at launch may not fully appreciate how many players at that time thought that there was a recommended path that would be the same for all players....neither game rally supprted that idea , as the nexus was obviously designed ot combat linear thinking, but Dark was specifically geared to defeat that idea. Many Pioneers of souls from original launch like ORacrest, have helped a lot of people switch over to the exploration and make the game your own motif... Iwas thakful to have heard this stuff in 2009...I take no credit for the original ideas, but do try to propogate them.
No, but being level 72 with havels would make it easier than what most "expereinced" players experience, because experienced player likely experience him at a much lower level....the majority of players will cheese him with a glitch first available opportunity...questionable if the glitch was intended..likely not. GOod for you for not glitching....I actually found the glitch by accident on my virgin playthrough as i was really inteding to do a suicide run at SL8 or something after queelag to check him out.....accidentally killed him. BUt no, if you stand there in front of him and take your shots I wouldn't say he is "easy." MOst bosses become easiER once you get their patterns though.
PErhaps "experienced" isnt the right word....[sarcasm off] I would rather say those players that like to go back and forth between levels vs. those that travel straight through from start to finish fog door to fog door....and don't stop until the boss is dead.
No, I haven't done it before yet. I'm still on my first playthrough. Just took a little break this past week. I found the Duke's Archives a little creepy and haven't gone back yet but I honestly don't think it'll be too much trouble when all is said and done. Am I wrong? Is it really tough?
one of these times I am going to bring the channelers trident and 99 repair stones and dance around to see if I can get Mildred to win on her own...might have to do this with a couple partners if the repair stones idea doesn't work...who's in??? LOL
I wouldn' t say tough with the right strategy, but it was a very humiliating level for me though and it took way waaaaya longer than I had hoped it would at the time...it does punish haste, even more so than the rest of the game.....slowly and surely wins the race here......no spoilers, but you may be surprised by how long it takes you to complete your task of acquiring all that there is to acquire from him magic, and item wise....and there is a lot......the boss also has some goodies for magic users .......just a head's up.
I lock on her all the way, standing right next to her face and slashing. The closer the better. That bitch can swing her fury blade all she want but she can never hit me because I'm too close. Just keep an eye on her. When you see her petting the spider that means she's about to puke lava, just move to the side. If she prones. You know shes about to fart some major AOE damage. Back off, roll if you have too. I solo her in NG+ no damage taken
PetriP-TNT
Member
Yeah but for pretty much every route except Undead Burg is devastating for anyone that hasn't played Demon's Souls so that pretty much negates that. And Burg leads to Parish and Parish to Garden or Lower Undead Burg etc. Then Capra Demon beats your ass but Moonlight Butterfly is super easy after the Gargoyles etc. so the route is definitely there.
I am pretty sure she can as long as you can "keep" her in the middle of the arena so she doesn't get stuck on the lava and sides. Sometimes she does stop attacking if you are too far from Quelaag/her though.
I definitely hear you, and lots of noob players will want to do it that way and that's their choice. We as a community here may want to encourage the opposite, though, so that the new player realizes all bosses can be done at SL1 so wahy not start on your first playthrough to strategize etc? THis aspect was what addicted me to this series, and this community inspired me to become a posting member even a fter a year and half wait of reading oracrest and indigo cyclops and not beingable to thank them for their advice.
I like to ensure people dont get lead to belive that the burg and parish is the extended tutorial because clearly it is not...the tutorial is the tutorial. that is all. The rest is wide open.
My startegy for Dark Forest is already materializing....first boss i get to is going to get taken down to a slliver of health...then it will stay alive in my world and I am goign to assit in co-op a tonne on the level until I see all the nooks and crannies before moving on...probably do that for all levels... I will keep my SL low for co-op, search out all corners of possibility before killing bosses, etc. and devise a path that best suits the equipment/style of play that I think will be my favourite based on what I find....what could be a better experience in RPG land??!?!?
From wikipedia: The game was released in Japan on January 26, 2012,[1] for both PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Namco Bandai has announced that they will be handling exports, and the game was released in North America on March 20, 2012 and March 23, 2012 in Europe. .......Suggests that the special code for use with those who get Last Raven Portable will be to obtain the Armored Core V version of the traditional Moonlight close-quarters weapon.........However only the japanesse version offers the exclusive moonlight package.
Sounds like a FROM release to me????!????!!!
I dont work at FROM, but have played enough Demon/Dark to see what they were aiming for in certain areas/zones. Some places are setup great for pvp. Of course you can avoid killing the phantoms taking the long way, but if you are heading to Sif from the bonfire co-op, the shortest route is through the phantoms. To avoid them you need to take the longest route possible. I dont think the matchmaking system takes level into account as well. Any forest hunter is capable of invading people who attack the phantoms in human form. I could be wrong though, but I have been dropped by some very high level people at lvl 20 in the forest. They gave people a ring that summons them back from any zone in the world, well not sure about the Painted World. They gave invaders all the tools to pvp in the forest at any time or place in the game. If you want to spend time going pvp, the forest is the easiest zone to do it in by far.
It is very similar to pvp in the first Anor Londo courtyard. They put in a huge courtyard next to a bonfire with zero mobs, then put a covenant in the zone that allowed people to invade a long list of players. The courtyard is huge and wide open without any mob to interrupt the fight. Players can face one another and have it be as fair for both sides. FROM put a lot of thought into mob placement, zones, and systems, I find it hard to believe they didnt intend for the forest to have mass chaotic pvp with players of all levels. I guess I would feel differently if they had similar systems for most of the zones, but it is isolated to the forest.
Red Liquorice
Member
Is the Symbol of Avarice really that rare? On one of the wiki's it said it so, but I got it on both of my playthroughs so far and I'm sure both times on the first mimic you come across in Sen's.
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