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Dark Souls |OT5| Definitely better than the sequel

If i've hit the soft cap for both endurance and strength and im looking to continue to improve my tank character, what should i invest in next? I've been putting souls into HP but i've been wondering how helpful Dex would be instead.
 

Arjen

Member
If i've hit the soft cap for both endurance and strength and im looking to continue to improve my tank character, what should i invest in next? I've been putting souls into HP but i've been wondering how helpful Dex would be instead.

What weapon are you using? You could invest in some attunement to equip power within, or some int so you could use a buff.
 
What weapon are you using? You could invest in some attunement to equip power within, or some int so you could use a buff.

Currently, im using a lightning zweihander +5. I'm just doing a ng+ run because i didn't get to see the DLC during my first playthrough, so i'm speedrunning my way straight to the DLC. I figured i might as well level up something different since my strength and endurance are both soft cap and it feels like a waste to keep pumping them given the diminishing returns that im seeing.
 

Arjen

Member
Currently, im using a lightning zweihander +5. I'm just doing a ng+ run because i didn't get to see the DLC during my first playthrough, so i'm speedrunning my way straight to the DLC. I figured i might as well level up something different since my strength and endurance are both soft cap and it feels like a waste to keep pumping them given the diminishing returns that im seeing.

Zwei will definitely benefit from DEX. But make it normal +15, you'll benefit more from scaling and lightning sucks donkey ass in the DC. Or get a man serpent Greatsword to get the full benefit from your strength.
 
Zwei will definitely benefit from DEX. But make it normal +15, you'll benefit more from scaling and lightning sucks donkey ass in the DC. Or get a man serpent Greatsword to get the full benefit from your strength.

Not sure if i have a Man Serpent Greatsword but having looked it up, yeah, it's probably the better option.

I guess if i don't have it ill just convert my Zweihander back to a regular +15 as it should scale with my strength better than the lightning version. And is Dex what would make my swings faster? or my drinking Estuses not take so long?
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Other than Steamworks integration, I wonder if Dark Souls 1 can get in on that dedicated server matchmaking, I feel it benefitted Dark Souls 2 greatly, even if the actual co-op/pvp was P2P based.
 

Arjen

Member
Not sure if i have a Man Serpent Greatsword but having looked it up, yeah, it's probably the better option.

I guess if i don't have it ill just convert my Zweihander back to a regular +15 as it should scale with my strength better than the lightning version. And is Dex what would make my swings faster? or my drinking Estuses not take so long?

No DEX will just give you more damage since the zwei also scales C in DEX. There's no stat that will improve swing speed and estus drinking.
 

Booshka

Member
Currently, im using a lightning zweihander +5. I'm just doing a ng+ run because i didn't get to see the DLC during my first playthrough, so i'm speedrunning my way straight to the DLC. I figured i might as well level up something different since my strength and endurance are both soft cap and it feels like a waste to keep pumping them given the diminishing returns that im seeing.

For STR or DEX build, always make everything that you can +15 for stat scaling. If your STR and END are both 40, then get your Vit to 50. After that, Dex to 18 or 20 for weapon requirements, then maybe some attunement slots.

Or just start cranking Dex and go for a full Quality build, get a lot of damage out of literally any weapon at +15.

I'd suggest keeping your character at or under SL 130 though, so you still get some activity online.
 
Yeah that's what I do to. But I'm rocking a high poise character without bow now so dealing with the ghosts was easy.

That damn ghost house...it's what killed my SL1 run, haha.

Other than Steamworks integration, I wonder if Dark Souls 1 can get in on that dedicated server matchmaking, I feel it benefitted Dark Souls 2 greatly, even if the actual co-op/pvp was P2P based.

That would be awesome. Never had a problem with connecting in DS2 (plenty of lag issues once connected, but hey). I doubt it will happen, but it would be great.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
That damn ghost house...it's what killed my SL1 run, haha.



That would be awesome. Never had a problem with connecting in DS2 (plenty of lag issues once connected, but hey). I doubt it will happen, but it would be great.

I mean they'll want a way to deal with cheaters, they disabled VAC for DS2 (did they ever re-enable it?) and handling it through their servers would work as a substitute :p
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
If i've hit the soft cap for both endurance and strength
Currently, im using a lightning zweihander +5.
Whyyyyyy


:p Sorry, just seems to happen like, all the time. Maybe it's because I already understood scaling from Demon's so I got scaling right away, but it baffles me that people waste their str or dex on elemental weapons so often.

But yeah, more VIT is always good, probably best to cap at 50 though. Then you can pick between dex for slightly better consistent damage, or attunement for a big but temporary damage boost with PW and/or Great Magic Weapon or something.
 

Booshka

Member
Whyyyyyy


:p Sorry, just seems to happen like, all the time. Maybe it's because I already understood scaling from Demon's so I got scaling right away, but it baffles me that people waste their str or dex on elemental weapons so often.

But yeah, more VIT is always good, probably best to cap at 50 though. Then you can pick between dex for slightly better consistent damage, or attunement for a big but temporary damage boost with PW and/or Great Magic Weapon or something.

Dark Souls shows you the Lightning upgrade path first before they show the +11-15 upgrade path unfortunately. Most players don't even notice the scaling bonus from stats too, it's a sad state of affairs, but it's common.
 
So when I have "rescued" the fire keeper at firelink shrine, shouldn't the bonfire reignite? Because it doesn't.
Did you
return the firekeeper's soul that Lautrec stole to the gate where she originally sits?
Cuz that's what you need to do :p

When she returns, you can hear the bonfire relight above.
 

Hayabusi

Member
Did you
return the firekeeper's soul that Lautrec stole to the gate where she originally sits?
Cuz that's what you need to do :p

When she returns, you can hear the bonfire relight above.

I did, she is there and I talked to her. Still I can't do anything with the bonfire.
 

Hayabusi

Member
Weird. Are there any enemies or aggro'd NPCs around, that will also extinguish the bonfire until you've dealt with them. If not you can always try quiting and reloading.

Nope, no aggro'd NPC and no enemies. Since it happened almost two weeks ago I quit and saved a lot of times. It is not that bad, but still weird and annoying if I forget about and warp to Firelink. ^^ PS3 Prepare to Die edition btw.
 
Wow, after plowing right through NG+ to get to the DLC, i hit a +3 hour detour with Smough and Ornstein. In retrospect, i feel really lucky that i summoned for help during my original playthrough as having to solo them in NG+ was truly a frustrating experience. I ended up ditching my lightning zweihander and using a Black Knight Greataxe +5 instead, just because the double handed weak attack seemed like a better option against the two as it was fast and strong.

but damn, if that didn't take the wind out of my sails. I've reached the DLC now for the first time and really, i think i've reach my saturation point with DS. I'll probably finish it up in the next day or two, but i just went from "cant wait to get DS2 for cheap during a steam sale" to "maybe i'll wait till there is a good DS2 + season pass bundle."

edit: Just read the wiki. You can summon Solaire over where the stupid archer is at the end? Well shit, that could've save me some frustration.
 
Nope, no aggro'd NPC and no enemies. Since it happened almost two weeks ago I quit and saved a lot of times. It is not that bad, but still weird and annoying if I forget about and warp to Firelink. ^^ PS3 Prepare to Die edition btw.
You broke Firelink Shrine then, there's no other explanation! D:
 

Mistel

Banned
I ended up ditching my lightning zweihander and using a Black Knight Greataxe +5 instead, just because the double handed weak attack seemed like a better option against the two as it was fast and strong.
Lightning isn't great with a zweihander as it makes no use of your stats plus both are resistant to lightning.
 
Wow, after plowing right through NG+ to get to the DLC, i hit a +3 hour detour with Smough and Ornstein. In retrospect, i feel really lucky that i summoned for help during my original playthrough as having to solo them in NG+ was truly a frustrating experience. I ended up ditching my lightning zweihander and using a Black Knight Greataxe +5 instead, just because the double handed weak attack seemed like a better option against the two as it was fast and strong.

but damn, if that didn't take the wind out of my sails. I've reached the DLC now for the first time and really, i think i've reach my saturation point with DS. I'll probably finish it up in the next day or two, but i just went from "cant wait to get DS2 for cheap during a steam sale" to "maybe i'll wait till there is a good DS2 + season pass bundle."

edit: Just read the wiki. You can summon Solaire over where the stupid archer is at the end? Well shit, that could've save me some frustration.

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to take a break before jumping into Dark Souls 2. It's definitely possible to get worn out by Souls games.
 

Donos

Member
Wow, after plowing right through NG+ to get to the DLC, i hit a +3 hour detour with Smough and Ornstein. In retrospect, i feel really lucky that i summoned for help during my original playthrough as having to solo them in NG+ was truly a frustrating experience. I ended up ditching my lightning zweihander and using a Black Knight Greataxe +5 instead, just because the double handed weak attack seemed like a better option against the two as it was fast and strong.

but damn, if that didn't take the wind out of my sails. I've reached the DLC now for the first time and really, i think i've reach my saturation point with DS. I'll probably finish it up in the next day or two, but i just went from "cant wait to get DS2 for cheap during a steam sale" to "maybe i'll wait till there is a good DS2 + season pass bundle."

edit: Just read the wiki. You can summon Solaire over where the stupid archer is at the end? Well shit, that could've save me some frustration.

Solaire eats Ornstein for breakfast in NG++ (probably in NG+ too) if you focus on Smough.

Have fun with the bosses in the DLC. Not going to be an easy ride in NG+ though.
 
Solaire eats Ornstein for breakfast in NG++ (probably in NG+ too) if you focus on Smough.

Have fun with the bosses in the DLC. Not going to be an easy ride in NG+ though.

My issue with S&O was that it was 2 strong and aggressive bosses at once. My build can go toe-to-toe with just about any boss but having 2 at once made it real tough.

To give you an idea, i took out the sanctuary boss in just two tries, whereas i took several hours to take on S&O. But dammit, i wish i knew about Solaire being there because i feel extra stupid.
 

Donos

Member
My issue with S&O was that it was 2 strong and aggressive bosses at once. My build can go toe-to-toe with just about any boss but having 2 at once made it real tough.

To give you an idea, i took out the sanctuary boss in just two tries, whereas i took several hours to take on S&O. But dammit, i wish i new about Solaire being there because i feel extra stupid.

In NG and NG+ i used the pillar tactic, bating Smough to attack me, while i was save behind a pillar. Used this moment to attack Ornstein and get 2-3 strong attacks on him. And repeat till he died.

In NG++ i had to kill Smough first because i needed Ornsteins soul (for platinum) but Ornstein was too agile and got on my nerves while i went for Smough. So i summoned Solaire for the first time and fought Smough alone while Solaire was 1 on 1 with Ornstein.
Then i saw the health bar of Ornstein getting smaller faster than i could damage Smough with Claymore +15 and Power Within +15. Had to reload two times to be faster than Solaire.

Sanctuary boss is not in the same ballpark as the other 3.
 
I started the game up a week or two ago after playing Demon's Souls over the summer and I'm really enjoying it.

Since I replaced my old modem, though, I've been getting kicked off PSN every 10 minutes or so, and even after messing with the settings on both ends I'm still having the issue. >.>
 

Zocano

Member
Seeing as it's been a relevantly recent topic. I don't want to take things off topic but I just wanna say...

I'm in the camp that DSII didn't feel 'right'. Dark and Demon's just felt so lean and accurate.

Well, I played the Bloodborne beta last night and wanted to say that the 'feeling' is back. It astounded me that within the first 2 minutes I knew they had got it right, I instantly preferred to feel of it over DS2 and it felt so familiar despite the new Blunderbuss mechanic. Weird how something so indescribable is so recognisable.

This comment and this discussion made me really curious about that because I never noticed Dark Souls 2 feeling "off" as far as movement is concerned. In fact I thought it controlled way way better than the other two games.

So to try and get down to it, I went and messed around with the three games back to back trying to get a feel for things.

Demon's and Dark Souls 2 actually feel more similar as far as attacking and movesets. They're a bit quicker and sleeker in animations. Dark 1 is definitely very weighty and heavy in movements and attacking feels very different from the other two. It's very noticeable hopping between the games. Demon's sort of has that weight but definitely is smoother like Dark Souls 2. Dark Souls 1 has very heavy feeling movesets.

Evasion and rolling is where Dark Souls 2, as most of you are probably very aware, stands differently. I definitely prefer the more static levels of rolling systems but I can understand why they did it the way they did in Dark Souls 2. It feels weird/clunky/unnatural for a set of gauntlets to make you suddenly roll like a turtle. I just think they should have done the curve even harsher (move the fatty roll closer to 50%) and make the transition much more gradual instead of a hard 69 to 70% barrier.

The whole rolling system is weird though because of how rolling and i-frames tie together. Dark 2 constantly shifting those around is why I think people feel it is "off". It's definitely different, but I don't think it's bad. I just think it could be executed better.

I still like 2 more than 1 even though that gap is growing smaller as I go back to Dark Souls 1.
 
Finished the DLC and, after 1 2/3 playthroughs, im glad to put the game to rest.

The DLC was fine, but I'm glad it was included with my purchase and I didn't pay full price for it because it didn't feel quite as epic as the rest of the game. I ended up not killing the dragon, but i did take care of Manus with Sif's help after about 4 tries. With Sif really serving as a distraction more so than anything else, I pretty much just tanked the shit out of him. I guess i had built up an expectation that he would be really really hard from what i had read, but in reality the only challenges I ever faced in the game is soloing the Capra Demon and O & S, both fights where I was outnumbered and just incredibly frustrated with the experiences.

I'll never get over not knowing that you could summon Soliare for O & S, though. I feel like I ruined that experience by soloing it.
 
Finished the DLC and, after 1 2/3 playthroughs, im glad to put the game to rest.

The DLC was fine, but I'm glad it was included with my purchase and I didn't pay full price for it because it didn't feel quite as epic as the rest of the game. I ended up not killing the dragon, but i did take care of Manus with Sif's help after about 4 tries.
You skipped one of the bosses and summoned help for another. Of course it felt less epic! I only saw the Sif summon in Jeff Green's stream but yeah, like most summons, it seems to more or less trivialize the fight.
 
So when I have "rescued" the fire keeper at firelink shrine, shouldn't the bonfire reignite? Because it doesn't.

Did you exhaust the dialogue with her? Did you already take the lord vessel?

Someone can explain me why i can't use any multiplayer object? I am online and in human form... i'm so frustrated

Some items are covenant only so if you left that covenant the item is useless.

Seeing as it's been a relevantly recent topic. I don't want to take things off topic but I just wanna say...

I'm in the camp that DSII didn't feel 'right'. Dark and Demon's just felt so lean and accurate.

The areas transitions in DS2 are too drastic or less intuitive than DS1, you travels vast distances in one corridor.
 

Zocano

Member
Finished the DLC and, after 1 2/3 playthroughs, im glad to put the game to rest.

The DLC was fine, but I'm glad it was included with my purchase and I didn't pay full price for it because it didn't feel quite as epic as the rest of the game. I ended up not killing the dragon, but i did take care of Manus with Sif's help after about 4 tries. With Sif really serving as a distraction more so than anything else, I pretty much just tanked the shit out of him. I guess i had built up an expectation that he would be really really hard from what i had read, but in reality the only challenges I ever faced in the game is soloing the Capra Demon and O & S, both fights where I was outnumbered and just incredibly frustrated with the experiences.

I'll never get over not knowing that you could summon Soliare for O & S, though. I feel like I ruined that experience by soloing it.

People like to hype up the Dark Souls 1 DLC a lot but honestly its level design is actually pretty weak. It's mostly just one whole straightaway through a boss gauntlet.

The bosses are all excellent, yes, but the actual level structure is pretty shallow. Dark Souls 2 DLC won't disappoint you on that front if you ever get around to it.
 
Yeah, both. She is at the point where she tells me she doesn't talk over and over again.

Well then you have a bad bug, the bonfire there lifts after you resurrect the ash lady.

People like to hype up the Dark Souls 1 DLC a lot but honestly its level design is actually pretty weak. It's mostly just one whole straightaway through a boss gauntlet.

The bosses are all excellent, yes, but the actual level structure is pretty shallow. Dark Souls 2 DLC won't disappoint you on that front if you ever get around to it.

Well the DLC in DS1 is more like a added chapter in the story in the middle of the main game compared to DS2 DLC's that feels like a extra zones after you finish the main game.
 

DedValve

Banned
Has anyone here played Dark Souls 1 & 2?

Dark Souls 1. FUCK THE GARGOYLES.

Dark Souls 2.... no amount of cussing can compare how much I hate the fucking goddamn piece of shit, shitstainbag motherfucking asscuntbag dribbledonkeyflogs thongwearingnipplemidget assholeinvadinggreydouchebags slimyblackelvenpricks tosserwankerflankerdanker bitchy idiotic mother fucking gargoyles.

Oh that works.


What I'm trying to say is why? WHY.

Maneater was already the most painful thing in existence for me. I never beat him in NG+ (despite being 1 hit away) but one day I do want to come back and beat him.

The gargoyles in DS1 where just no fun.

But DS2....WHY. Also why are so many bosses in DS2 just a ton of enemies? The most entertaining one that was also difficult was the DragonRider at Heilde's Tower. Sure I only died 3 times but it was so fucking beautiful and awesome (even if it was just a copy/paste from the infamous duo of DS1).

I vented. And now I shall turn to cheesing methods.

EDIT: Woops I had no idea there was a DS2 OT. I thought this was the general OT for both games. I'll cross post over there.
 

Zocano

Member
Been going through the game again cause it's been a while and I remembered what I hated most about Dark Souls 1.

Geared out low level invaders are the fucking absolute worst. Doesn't matter if I fight "better", I just don't do any damage and they chop off most of my health with each attack.

Soul Memory should stay but be fixed because there's a reason why I stay hollow the entire way through Dark Souls 1.
 

Booshka

Member
Been going through the game again cause it's been a while and I remembered what I hated most about Dark Souls 1.

Geared out low level invaders are the fucking absolute worst. Doesn't matter if I fight "better", I just don't do any damage and they chop off most of my health with each attack.

Soul Memory should stay but be fixed because there's a reason why I stay hollow the entire way through Dark Souls 1.

Agreed, I thought of maybe a gear and level check, that combined for an overall character power ranking, that could then be tied to matchmaking for invasions. Soul Memory as it is in DkS2 is game breaking in its own way and not nearly enough.

Kind of like how Racing games do it with segregating car classes for races. Your overall gear, including how well upgraded it is, would combine with your Soul level to give you a comprehensive class. That would then be used to matchmake you for invasions and co op. You could then still have level constrained builds that could play with newer players, so long as you gear appropriately.

So, if you are a good player, you can always gear down to get those newer, lesser skilled players, that you will still beat most of the time. This way though, at least the host that you invaded won't feel helpless against you, and may actually enjoy the encounter, looking forward to PvP in the future because of it.

I can dream at least...
 

Zocano

Member
Nearly done with my playthrough.

Something I realized from it:

Stat upgrades are worthlesssss. There's no reason to get Divine/Enchanted/Magic/Occult/Fire weapons. The damage just gets minimized so much it basically becomes useless.

You're better off just getting a +15 weapon and getting the appropriate buff for whatever you want. Makes me sad cause I was making a faith character used Divine weapons for a long time until I got the sunlight blade. Made a +15 Man-Serpent and my damage is astronomically greater. It's depressing that custom weapons are so useless.

I got the feeling that they were only ever good in Demon's Souls. Lots of enemies with actual high physical defense so weapons with different damage actually were more useful than not.
 

Harmen

Member
Finally came around seriously playing this game during the weekend, for the first time (continued a game I started when it came out, lol. I managed to get in Undead Burg then). Rung the first bell and explored a bit of Deeproot Forest. The leveldesign is fantastic.

The game is kicking my ass tough, but not in a bad way. I actually do better than I was expecting. I am not even half bad at parrying stuff from regular enemies and dodging works well for me (I do need to start blocking stuff in time, however. I suck at that for some reason). There are a lot of "nope" moments though, haha. I love it.
 

GenericUser

Member
There are a lot of "nope" moments though, haha. I love it.
haha, you're right

I also had the opportunity to pick this game up for a bargain price.

I played through demon's souls (with a guide) a couple of years ago and I hated every minute of it - I'm honest here. Too hard and frustrating, I couldn't enjoy the wonderful art direction and was frustrated as hell (even WITH the guide).

With Dark Souls it's a different story. I killed the 2 gargoyles yesterday and it took me FOREVER (I'd say 5 - 6 hours). But I managed and I did not ragequit even though I did not believe I could do it. Run after Run after Run, I always got a little bit better foreseeing the moves of the gargoyles, dodging their attacks, blocking at the right time. When I finally killed them, it was an overwhelming feeling. I couldn't fathom that I did it and then I stood there on the roof, pointing the camera at the sun and just watched the beautiful sky turning by...

I'm still so proud of my willpower and my endurance and of course my (cough) skill. I know that I probably won't be able to finish this game since this was surely one of the easier bosses, but I now made my peace with the souls-series.

Now I'm in new londo and I can't even hit the ghost enemies there ... the cycle continues.
 

Tarkus

Member
^ Save New Londo for later. You need a consumable or a status effect to fight ghosts.

The game is kicking my ass tough, but not in a bad way. I actually do better than I was expecting. I am not even half bad at parrying stuff from regular enemies and dodging works well for me (I do need to start blocking stuff in time, however. I suck at that for some reason). There are a lot of "nope" moments though, haha. I love it.
Find the Black Knights. They're good training and drop useful stuff
sometimes
 
Nearly done with my playthrough.

Something I realized from it:

Stat upgrades are worthlesssss. There's no reason to get Divine/Enchanted/Magic/Occult/Fire weapons. The damage just gets minimized so much it basically becomes useless.

You're better off just getting a +15 weapon and getting the appropriate buff for whatever you want. Makes me sad cause I was making a faith character used Divine weapons for a long time until I got the sunlight blade. Made a +15 Man-Serpent and my damage is astronomically greater. It's depressing that custom weapons are so useless.

I got the feeling that they were only ever good in Demon's Souls. Lots of enemies with actual high physical defense so weapons with different damage actually were more useful than not.

Exactly, resines are the best elemental damage without waste your weapons primary damage. Still lighting is the best use of elemental damage because most bosses are weak to that element.



With Dark Souls it's a different story. I killed the 2 gargoyles yesterday and it took me FOREVER (I'd say 5 - 6 hours). But I managed and I did not ragequit even though I did not believe I could do it. Run after Run after Run, I always got a little bit better foreseeing the moves of the gargoyles, dodging their attacks, blocking at the right time. When I finally killed them, it was an overwhelming feeling. I couldn't fathom that I did it and then I stood there on the roof, pointing the camera at the sun and just watched the beautiful sky turning by...

I'm still so proud of my willpower and my endurance and of course my (cough) skill. I know that I probably won't be able to finish this game since this was surely one of the easier bosses, but I now made my peace with the souls-series.

Now I'm in new londo and I can't even hit the ghost enemies there ... the cycle continues.

Welcome to Dark Souls feeling of achievement without using a guide babysitting you.
 

Booshka

Member
Nearly done with my playthrough.

Something I realized from it:

Stat upgrades are worthlesssss. There's no reason to get Divine/Enchanted/Magic/Occult/Fire weapons. The damage just gets minimized so much it basically becomes useless.

You're better off just getting a +15 weapon and getting the appropriate buff for whatever you want. Makes me sad cause I was making a faith character used Divine weapons for a long time until I got the sunlight blade. Made a +15 Man-Serpent and my damage is astronomically greater. It's depressing that custom weapons are so useless.

I got the feeling that they were only ever good in Demon's Souls. Lots of enemies with actual high physical defense so weapons with different damage actually were more useful than not.

Ya elemental builds aren't very good in Dark Souls compared to Demon's. Especially going spellsword, the only really good elemental weapon is the Moonlight Greatsword because it is 100% magic damage. Chaos/Lightning are decent elemental for vit and endurance gouge characters. Faith and Intelligence elemental upgrade paths are overall pretty bad though, get better damage buffing a +15 weapon. The other thing elementals don't have in Dark Souls is the buffs for just having them equipped, HP regen for Faith and MP regen for Magic.

I have always been a pure physical melee guy anyway, so it didn't bother me, but a fully stacked out Regen Blessed Build in Demon's Souls is something special.
 
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