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[darkpaladinmfc]

Actually starting to understand the Ornstein & Smough fight.

It's not the fact that they're two : you can kite them for 20 min until one of them is dead
It's not the fact that they're "difficult" : they die in like 10 hits
It's not that there's another

Spoiler

phase

: The increased difficulty is somewhat balanced by the fact that they're alone now.

No it's not that.

It's the fact that it's one of the most shitty designed boss-stages you fight in of all time, I cannot fathom which idiot thought that fighting them in a cramped cathedral filled with geometry you get stuck on and the camera spazzes out at was a good design choice. It's one of the worst artificially "difficult" fights I've ever played. There's no satisfaction to be had, I keep getting to the same bloody point in the battle until I statistically have to get stuck on something and die for no other reason than shitty camera or level design.

*mentally thinking to myself* :" Ok just keep dodging, yeah good job, quick attacks and retreat. Good good. Ok here comes the big guns again, do a back roll. Hmm broken pillar behind me. Ok now my character is clipping inside the boss. Where is the camera looking? Nvm I'm dead."


Just sours the experience man.

edit : down 10 humanity, gonna keep going through them until I can't summon people anymore. Then I'm done like a bitch.

What? The geometry of the level is a life-saver. You can circle the room forever and never get stuck. The pillars are AMAZING, you can use them to safely use your Estus Flask, dodge some of Ornstein's attacks, and they make Smough Phase 2 a joke.

 

[RustyNails]

A new meat will appear soon. Just done the deed for the Steam version. Sooo ready to die.

 

[Zeliard]

If you're having that hard of a time with it, make sure you're summoning two human players, not Solaire and one guy.

If you have been summoning two humans, then I don't know what to tell you, heh. Three people should be able to wipe out O&S without much difficulty.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Actually starting to understand the Ornstein & Smough fight.

It's not the fact that they're two : you can kite them for 20 min until one of them is dead
It's not the fact that they're "difficult" : they die in like 10 hits
It's not that there's another

Spoiler

phase

: The increased difficulty is somewhat balanced by the fact that they're alone now.

No it's not that.

It's the fact that it's one of the most shitty designed boss-stages you fight in of all time, I cannot fathom which idiot thought that fighting them in a cramped cathedral filled with geometry you get stuck on and the camera spazzes out at was a good design choice. It's one of the worst artificially "difficult" fights I've ever played. There's no satisfaction to be had, I keep getting to the same bloody point in the battle until I statistically have to get stuck on something and die for no other reason than shitty camera or level design.

*mentally thinking to myself* :" Ok just keep dodging, yeah good job, quick attacks and retreat. Good good. Ok here comes the big guns again, do a back roll. Hmm broken pillar behind me. Ok now my character is clipping inside the boss. Where is the camera looking? Nvm I'm dead."


Just sours the experience man.

edit : down 10 humanity, gonna keep going through them until I can't summon people anymore. Then I'm done like a bitch.

Ornstein and Smough are probably the hardest fight in the game.. but they are not -that- hard. Smough can be easily and constantly exploited into running into the pillars over and over. Ornstein is not really much of a threat at all (all of his moves are easily dodgeable). As long as you don't get backed up into a corner it should not be that crazy (just keep circle strafing, don't get into a position where they corner you up against the wall).

Edit: I am talking about single player. With 2 or more people this (and all fights in Dark Souls) are piss easy (on new game atleast).

 

[Corky]

What? The geometry of the level is a life-saver. You can circle the room forever and never get stuck. The pillars are AMAZING, you can use them to safely use your Estus Flask, dodge some of Ornstein's attacks, and they make Smough Phase 2 a joke.

Yeah they sure came in handy when he got stuck in them in phase 1 and then they fucked up my entire life in phase 2 when he kept "homing" into me more or less pushing me into them over and over again.

Also I shouldn't have whined about summoning people I guess because now every single message and summon sign have disappeared. Great.

 

[gogogow]

If you're having that hard of a time with it, make sure you're summoning two human players, not Solaire and one guy.

If you have been summoning two humans, then I don't know what to tell you, heh. Three people should be able to wipe out O&S without much difficulty.

There were 3 summon signs today when I was about to fight Ornstein & Smough, but damn, all 3 of them failed to enter my game

In the end I think it took me less tries to beat them than on the PS3 version, but still quite a few times. I'm a pyromancer and my melee weapon is pretty weak. But if you know their moveset, you can easily evade their attacks.

 

[mxgt]

seriously, FUCK MANUS

I spam the pendant and sometimes it blocks the attack and sometimes I get 1 hit killed, it's completely fucking random.

I have no problem dying because I mis timed a dodge but this is utter horse shit, I have the pendant effect up and it just ignores it and kills me.

 

[Zeliard]

What? The geometry of the level is a life-saver. You can circle the room forever and never get stuck. The pillars are AMAZING, you can use them to safely use your Estus Flask, dodge some of Ornstein's attacks, and they make Smough Phase 2 a joke.

Everything makes Smough phase 2 a joke. There's almost nothing he can actually do to you.

Smough sucks. He's like a fat Pinwheel.

Hear that, Smough? You suck, buddy.

There were 3 summon signs today when I was about to fight Ornstein & Smough, but damn, all 3 of them failed to enter my game

In the end I think it took me less tries to beat them than on the PS3 version, but still quite a few times. I'm a pyromancer and my melee weapon is pretty weak. But if you know their moveset, you can easily evade their attacks.

There's something really shitty going on with the matchmaking. I'm not being summoned nearly as often as I should be given the level ranges. I haven't tried summoning anyone into my game but I keep hearing that people are getting summons failed all over the place.

 

[Sax Russel]

seriously, FUCK MANUS

I spam the pendant and sometimes it blocks the attack and sometimes I get 1 hit killed, it's completely fucking random.

I have no problem dying because I mis timed a dodge but this is utter horse shit, I have the pendant effect up and it just ignores it and kills me.

It's not random , the animation he does for the cast tells you which of the three spells it's going to be, and you have to time your pendant correctly, it only blocks for a short window. And you can get by without the pendant for 2/3 of them. If he's shooting out straight at you, you can sidestep/dodge roll it most of the time. The one that rains down I had no problems just walking backward from, and when he shoots it out behind you, just delay a second or two before you pendant, that's the only cast I *had* to use it for. Though I was also playing at under 25% load.

 

[Ledsen]

Yeah they sure came in handy when he got stuck in them in phase 1 and then they fucked up my entire life in phase 2 when he kept "homing" into me more or less pushing me into them over and over again.

Also I shouldn't have whined about summoning people I guess because now every single message and summon sign have disappeared. Great.

btw I hope you found the shortcut to get to them faster from the bonfire (jumping off the first set of stairs you go up). I can't thank that tipster enough...

 

[mxgt]

It's not random , the animation he does for the cast tells you which of the three spells it's going to be, and you have to time your pendant correctly, it only blocks for a short window. And you can get by without the pendant for 2/3 of them. If he's shooting out straight at you, you can sidestep/dodge roll it most of the time. The one that rains down I had no problems just walking backward from, and when he shoots it out behind you, just delay a second or two before you pendant, that's the only cast I *had* to use it for. Though I was also playing at under 25% load.

I know exactly what the casts do, the one that comes from behind went straight through my pendant effect and 1 hit killed me.

Unless the pendant wears off before the animation, which would be rather dumb.

 

[Grief.exe]

Oh wow. Almost just beat

Spoiler

Manus

on my first try. I just couldn't figure out how to dodge one of his humanity attacks.

I do so little damage with my lightning Claymore. Need a physical weapon, but I don't have the strength. Oh well, I'm leveling up right now so I can use MSGS

 

[Corky]

btw I hope you found the shortcut to get to them faster from the bonfire (jumping off the first set of stairs you go up). I can't thank that tipster enough...

Shortcut? O_O

 

[Ledsen]

Shortcut? O_O

Oh man i feel sorry for you...
Shortcut=get to them in ~45 sec

 

[Corky]

Oh man i feel sorry for you...

No wait, the church/cathedral front doors are open so what I do is spawn at the darkmoon bonfire, call down the elevator and then run for 2 minutes straight and hope the giants will miss me.

I thought that was the shortcut?

 

[Sax Russel]

I know exactly what the casts do, the one that comes from behind went straight through my pendant effect and 1 hit killed me.

Unless the pendant wears off before the animation, which would be rather dumb.

Well, dunno, it was 100% reliable to me. Maybe it just doesn't like you =P

 

[Ledsen]

No wait, the church/cathedral front doors are open so what I do is spawn at the darkmoon bonfire, call down the elevator and then run for 2 minutes straight and hope the giants will miss me.

I thought that was the shortcut?

Darkmoon? Elevator? Huh? There's a way to darkmoon from there? Im talking about going from the bonfire in the basement, the same way you got to them the first time through.

 

[Zeliard]

No wait, the church/cathedral front doors are open so what I do is spawn at the darkmoon bonfire, call down the elevator and then run for 2 minutes straight and hope the giants will miss me.

I thought that was the shortcut?

Why are you using that bonfire? There's one inside the building that is much closer even without doing the stair jump.

 

[Corky]

Ok I kinda need some audio visual aides here because I'm not sure which route people are talking about...

Though I'll just as well preemptively post this :

 

[Zeliard]

There are three bonfires in Anor Londo: the one near the start with the Firekeeper, the Darkmoon one, and then a third inside the cathedral with Ornstein and Smough.

That third one is also where you are likely to see several summon signs.

Well, four bonfires actually, but the fourth you don't get till after O&S.

 

[Ledsen]

When you first come through anor londo, there's a bonfire a few mins before humpty and dumpty. You go from the fire up some stairs, though a room, up again, kill a Guy in à courtyard, then go down some stairs, across à walkway and you're on some stairs in the cathedral. Except you only go up that first stair, then you jump off it halfway and bam, you're on the walkway right before the cathedral, so you just run down past the two giants to laurel and hardy.

 

[wutwutwut]

Gah, why can't I take care of O&S. I'm at SL48 with this build: VIT21/END21/STR19/DEX25. I have no points in faith or intelligence. I have a BSS+10, a Claymore+10, an Eagle Shield+5 and a Longbow+10. I simply can't put out enough damage before I take too much damage and my estus flasks run out.

My current strategy is to spam Smough with heavy arrows. Each arrow does 150 damage, which means around 20-25 arrows are enough to take him out. What do I do? Should I go do

Spoiler

Ariamis

first?

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Is SL100 a good place to stop?

 

[equil]

When you first come through anor londo, there's a bonfire a few mins before humpty and dumpty. You go from the fire up some stairs, though a room, up again, kill a Guy in à courtyard, then go down some stairs, across à walkway and you're on some stairs in the cathedral. Except you only go up that first stair, then you jump off it halfway and bam, you're on the walkway right before the cathedral, so you just run down past the two giants to laurel and hardy.

I use the door where the two silver knights and the two chests are and go up there then drop down by the two giants and run to the door.

the video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcMD7GvjWiQ

 

[HungOverOnATues]

Is SL100 a good place to stop?

Seems like people are stopping there because of the arena brackets. Does anyone know if it's been confirmed that the arena will only match up people within the 50 level brackets? Can a SL99 face off against a SL101?

I've stopped leveling my mage at SL100 until there's confirmation one way or the other and just started a new character.

 

[Self_Destructive]

hmm, is anyone getting a Dark Souls update right now?

I seem to have gotten one but it's got a full bar...says 0% and wont let me start the game

 

[Sullichin]

Gah, why can't I take care of O&S. I'm at SL48 with this build: VIT21/END21/STR19/DEX25. I have no points in faith or intelligence. I have a BSS+10, a Claymore+10, an Eagle Shield+5 and a Longbow+10. I simply can't put out enough damage before I take too much damage and my estus flasks run out.

My current strategy is to spam Smough with heavy arrows. Each arrow does 150 damage, which means around 20-25 arrows are enough to take him out. What do I do? Should I go do

Spoiler

Ariamis

first?

Try backing up with your shield up and using the BSS r2 attack when safe. If you have the

Spoiler

right of kindling from the catacombs

, it's very helpful for this fight to have 15 or 20 estus flasks. You can also

Spoiler

summon solaire, he won't do much damage but will distract.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Oh, make no mistake; O&S are a pain in the ass because there are two of them. It damn sure isn't the room you fight them in, those pillars can save your neck when they're trying to do the real bullshit thing that kills you most often...

The endless, no room to breathe hit you again as soon as you stand up chain of attacks. That BY FAR is the biggest annoyance in that fight. Once you kill one the other is dead meat.

 

[Corky]

Oh, make no mistake; O&S are a pain in the ass because there are two of them. It damn sure isn't the room you fight them in, those pillars can save your neck when they're trying to do the real bullshit thing that kills you most often...

The endless, no room to breathe hit you again as soon as you stand up chain of attacks. That BY FAR is the biggest annoyance in that fight. Once you kill one the other is dead meat.

Well I wish I could relate, anywho I killed them and feel zero satisfaction unlike others bosses. Killed them in the lamest way possible as well because I just couldn't be arsed anymore... after having ornstein left at 5% hp several times in a row I said fuck it summoned two people and made Smough no 2. No armor for me.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

O&S was incredibly frustrating with my STR character. One of the few times I felt this game was being cheap. I've seen Youtube videos of people beating them solo and not taking a single hit, but it looks so long and tedious that it would suck any fun out of the fight.

 

[scitek]

This is one of the first games in a while to actually scare the shit out of me. I was running in the sewers and fell down a hole and was immediately Cursed by something breathing all over me. Lost about 10k souls. I respawned at the bonfire, ran back to the place, fell back down the hole, retrieved my souls and proceeded to clear the room one enemy at a time. Felt good.

 

[equil]

I think O&S is easy compared to the 4 kings.

 

[Jackpot]

This game is, frankly, pissing me off. Specifically the stupid checkpoint system. Keep dying at a particular point, go all the way back to the beginning to do it all over. Level up so you can get past it? Sorry we left your souls at the place you keep dying and you get zero. And you need souls to repair your weapons and armour. That degrade every time you play through that section. Not to mention all the times you die from an animation throwing you off a cliff or the targeting system is finicky as hell so you keep presenting your back to the closest enemies.

 

[Jintor]

Now that I'm running O&S co-op it's way more fun

Honestly, the checkpoint system is one of the reasons this game is so amazing. Once you realise that souls and humanity are more or less nothing (unless you budget really badly) you realise that it's a perfect balance of risk/reward.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

Made some progress today:

Spoiler

Killed a boss who had some annoying dogs, went back to the tutorial area and fought dat-ass boss, killed a puppy with a big sword (felt really bad when it started limping) and killed an hydra boss (pretty easy).

Maybe I should try that fire place now...

 

[jns]

Now that I'm running O&S co-op it's way more fun

Honestly, the checkpoint system is one of the reasons this game is so amazing. Once you realise that souls and humanity are more or less nothing (unless you budget really badly) you realise that it's a perfect balance of risk/reward.

Yup. Do you push on towards (hopefully) another bonfire with half health and no flasks? or go back the the previous bonfire, rest and try to do better next time?

The games checkpoint system is amazing and I hope to see more games use the principle.

 

[randomwab]

Can anyone recommend some good, light armour for a dex build? I'd like to keep the equipment load low so I can continue using the dark wood grain ring for my flips.

 

[Jintor]

I mean seriously. If you've played a roguelike - any roguelike - you'll realise Dark Souls is downright forgiving.

Can anyone recommend some good, light armour for a dex build? I'd like to keep the equipment load low so I can continue using the dark wood grain ring for my flips.

Dark Wood Grain doesn't reduce equipment weight anymore in Prepare to Die does it? I don't really want to betray the Forest Covenant just for flips.

 

[Raxus]

I mean seriously. If you've played a roguelike - any roguelike - you'll realise Dark Souls is downright forgiving.



Dark Wood Grain doesn't reduce equipment weight anymore in Prepare to Die does it? I don't really want to betray the Forest Covenant just for flips.

Nope they nerfed DWG so it is 'useless' now.

And yes, part of the challenge to Dark Souls is figuring out which bosses require mobility and which ones you tank.

I solo'ed 4 kings twice and beat them on my first try.

 

[Defuser]

I mean seriously. If you've played a roguelike - any roguelike - you'll realise Dark Souls is downright forgiving.



Dark Wood Grain doesn't reduce equipment weight anymore in Prepare to Die does it? I don't really want to betray the Forest Covenant just for flips.

DWGR don't reduces equipment weight to start with.

 

[Jintor]

Whatever it was that bumped down your load or let you roll around at top speed or whatever

 

[Defuser]

Whatever it was that bumped down your load or let you roll around at top speed or whatever

Havel's ring which increases your equipment load and maybe DWGR ring which performs flips which is considered to be top speed.

 

[Jintor]

I have Havel's, so I guess I'll just have to deal. Anything else would bump me into medium weight class :<

 

[Sinatar]

Dark wood used to let you move at 25% speed with 50% load in addition to the backflips. They removed the load part and now you just get flips if you're at <=25%.

 

[andregnreis]

Does the achievements unlock if i trade the weapons between chars?

 

[wutwutwut]

I tried O&S a bit more -- I give up for today. I've hit a wall for the first time in the game.

 

[Robot Pants]

Does the achievements unlock if i trade the weapons between chars?

What do you mean? Which achievements? The elemental ones?
Or the "posses all" one?

 

[somesplace]

haha O&S is "cheap" and "poorly designed" = i got owned.

you've got to know where you are in the room, what's behind you, how many pillars are on either side of you, etc. if you don't want to get stuck.

know when to break lock on. don't always retreat -- stepping forward to either will bait an attack or put them on the defensive, which can give you more breathing room. don't be afraid...

imo it's much better to kill smough first if you're pure melee. he's much easier to hit than ornstein, and i even find ornstein's second form to be easier than smough's. just keep an eye on ornstein, and know that he can warp through smough to hit you.

 

[bob_arctor]

haha O&S is "cheap" and "poorly designed" = i got owned.

you've got to know where you are in the room, what's behind you, how many pillars are on either side of you, etc. if you don't want to get stuck.

know when to break lock on. don't always retreat -- stepping forward to either will bait an attack or put them on the defensive, which can give you more breathing room. don't be afraid...

imo it's much better to kill smough first if you're pure melee. he's much easier to hit than ornstein, and i even find ornstein's second form to be easier than smough's. just keep an eye on ornstein, and know that he can warp through smough to hit you.

Good advice. And find a sweet spot between mobility, attack power and defense. O&S made me take a break when I first played DS--I really thought I had finally met my match. But then it all clicked and I felt like a goddamn boss.

 

[JVIDICAN]

Only thing I don't like about the S&O fight is the sneak attack lightning blast that always seems to emerge from Smoughs belly after his butt slam. :'(