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[Laurentius]

I pretty much avoided co-op my first playthrough, as I like to take things at my own speed when experiencing something like this game. Finally had some fun co-op runs with somebody I ran into in Blighttown tonight on my NG+ run. We ended up killing Quelaag and Ceaseless Discharge in both of our games, and wanted to go through Sen's Fortress. We stopped being able to see each other's signs though, and after messing around with that for about 30-45 minutes we gave up. Really wish that the online aspects were a little less glitchy, as it's really quite fun.

 

[Arjen]

Don't feel too bad, one time I lost around 30k souls because I somehow fell off the waterwheel elevator in Blighttown.

Twice.

In a row.

By far my most embarrassing sequence of deaths.

The waterwheel must be my main source of death now. I just get impatient and roll of to quik.

 

[Laurentius]

Yeah, I fall off that thing all the time too...

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Same, I think the platform at the top has collision issues. I fell through it 3 times in a row

 

[Nekki]

Okay I don't feel bad about the waterwheel anymore LOL, thanks guys

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Never died from the waterwheel. Have died fucking twice in a row, trying to block with the talisman I'd used to howeward back to the bonfire to repeat the farming run! fml

 

[Red Liquorice]

You guys know you should stay on the water wheel until you're at the apex? Very early on I died there too, but kind folks here told me to stay on the wheel until you're at the very top of the arc, you slide off the platform and on to the wheel itself and then just drop or roll off. Haven't died or fallen there since.

 

[Raide]

I dunno if I am the only one that utterly missed this but the Blighttown Waterwheels are powered by dog!

 

[Laurentius]

You guys know you should stay on the water wheel until you're at the apex? Very early on I died there too, but kind folks here told me to stay on the wheel until you're at the very top of the arc, you slide off the platform and on to the wheel itself and then just drop or roll off. Haven't died or fallen there since.

Haha, wish I had known that last night. Good to know, though, that should help a lot.

I dunno if I am the only one that utterly missed this but the Blighttown Waterwheels are powered by dog!

Wha?!

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Haha, wish I had known that last night. Good to know, though, that should help a lot.



Wha?!

If you look down, you can see a firedog in one of the wheels doing the run animation

 

[Arjen]

I dunno if I am the only one that utterly missed this but the Blighttown Waterwheels are powered by dog!

Say what now?

/sorry, answered above me

 

[ArynCrinn]

Starting a real Deprived run whenever I feel especially masochistic.

Rules:

-No leveling.
-No elementals.
-Only use starting equipment.
-No healing.
-No pyro upgrades.
-No summons.
-No buffs.
-No rings.

I'm curious how many bosses and areas I can make it through using this rule set. At this point even Capra is becoming a headache.

 

[Raide]

If you look down, you can see a firedog in one of the wheels doing the run animation

I laughed my ass off and then got hit by one of those bugs while I was not paying attention.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

Starting a real Deprived run whenever I feel especially masochistic.

Rules:

-No leveling.
-No elementals.
-Only use starting equipment.
-No healing.
-No pyro upgrades.
-No summons.
-No buffs.
-No rings.

I'm curious how many bosses and areas I can make it through using this rule set. At this point even Capra is becoming a headache.

That sounds absolutely brutal, especially the no-rings/no buffs part. Your damage output is going to be utterly minuscule. Can you at least upgrade your starting club?

 

[ArynCrinn]

That sounds absolutely brutal, especially the no-rings/no buffs part. Your damage output is going to be utterly minuscule. Can you at least upgrade your starting club?

Yeah, I'm pretty much going to +15 on my Club. And check out the brutality of the Stray Demon fight, 85 dmg with a R2 attack! Took forever to kill him.

 

[Sullichin]

Starting a real Deprived run whenever I feel especially masochistic.

Rules:

-No leveling.
-No elementals.
-Only use starting equipment.
-No healing.
-No pyro upgrades.
-No summons.
-No buffs.
-No rings.

I'm curious how many bosses and areas I can make it through using this rule set. At this point even Capra is becoming a headache.

Nice! I made it to Four Kings / Artorias so far with the same rule set except I allow healing, pine resin (but only on regular club up to +15) and rings. O&S were a huge pain in the ass. Club+15 against Artorias and 4 Kings is awful. I like how you did pinwheel early even though you're not healing, it's a proper boss fight for once.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Nice! I made it to Four Kings / Artorias so far with the same rule set except I allow healing, pine resin (but only on regular club up to +15) and rings. O&S were a huge pain in the ass. Club+15 against Artorias and 4 Kings is awful. I like how you did pinwheel early even though you're not healing, it's a proper boss fight for once.

I imagine Four Kings will probably need to be done Vageta311's way, with just running around the arena playing hit and run on random kings. But I hate luck-based stuff like that. I really think From needs to patch in the ability to roll dodge the magic missile.

As for Artorias, it'll probably be a repeat of the Stray Demon fight, doing chip damage to him a little at a time. Extremely annoying. I don't even know if I'll get that far though, the RNG in the O&S fight could break my will.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

But should a base zweihander have heavier stat requirements? At what point during the upgrade process should the required stats increase? I agree it's a bit ridiculous. But it's also how people are able to beat PVE at low levels.

Well, I don't think anyone's entitled to beat the game at low levels, really. If adding level requirements to powerful gear makes the game unbeatable at SL 1, I'm perfectly okay with that if it means the rest of the game is balanced.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I feel like I'm reaching burn out again with DkS - can't think of any interesting builds to make. Only problem is, I feel like a girl who's been dating a guy with the biggest dick ever and now everyone else looks inferior. Dick Souls. :3

Never used the Zweihander, maybe I'll just give that a go.

 

[Raide]

I feel like I'm reaching burn out again with DkS - can't think of any interesting builds to make. Only problem is, I feel like a girl who's been dating a guy with the biggest dick ever and now everyone else looks inferior. Dick Souls. :3

Never used the Zweihander, maybe I'll just give that a go.

Its kinda fun thwomping things. Even as a low level, its nice to belt them so hard that they struggle to get up.

 

[Nekki]

I feel like I'm reaching burn out again with DkS - can't think of any interesting builds to make. Only problem is, I feel like a girl who's been dating a guy with the biggest dick ever and now everyone else looks inferior. Dick Souls. :3

Never used the Zweihander, maybe I'll just give that a go.

Zweihander is powerful, but damn it's too slow for my tastes. Maybe once I get better at the game I'll be able to use it properly.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I feel like I'm reaching burn out again with DkS - can't think of any interesting builds to make. Only problem is, I feel like a girl who's been dating a guy with the biggest dick ever and now everyone else looks inferior. Dick Souls. :3

Never used the Zweihander, maybe I'll just give that a go.

LOL.

Try the whale force, maybe. I had a lot of fun with those and even helped design the additional classes.

But I know what you mean. Other games pale so much in comparison.

 

[Sullichin]

I feel like I'm reaching burn out again with DkS - can't think of any interesting builds to make. Only problem is, I feel like a girl who's been dating a guy with the biggest dick ever and now everyone else looks inferior. Dick Souls. :3

Never used the Zweihander, maybe I'll just give that a go.

Try making a black knight character, 36STR 18DEX and you can 1 hand all of their weapons. I love invading as a black knight. All of the weapons are really fun to use

 

[ArynCrinn]

Well, just lost over 300,000 souls and 8 Humanity to those tree's and stone bastards in the Royal Wood. Easy come, easy go.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Should've worn dat ring of sacrifice... very useful for calming the nerves in a bloodstain retrieval phase...

 

[ArynCrinn]

Should've worn dat ring of sacrifice... very useful for calming the nerves in a bloodstain retrieval phase...

Yeah, the sad part is I was only there to farm the Plow and Hammer from the enemies for no apparent reason... So I had on Gold Serpent and Favor, didn't remember to switch.

 

[Soulhouf]

Starting a real Deprived run whenever I feel especially masochistic.

Rules:

-No leveling.
-No elementals.
-Only use starting equipment.
-No healing.
-No pyro upgrades.
-No summons.
-No buffs.
-No rings.

I'm curious how many bosses and areas I can make it through using this rule set. At this point even Capra is becoming a headache.

That would be interesting, but still not as brutal as the no upgrade rule at all. Beating 4K with a knife and Gwyn with a Dark Hand was fun.

 

[Nekki]

Lol, it seems that everywhere I go I have to run away!! I tried my hand at Quelaag for a few times, then gave up on it for the time being. Decided to explore darkroot forest, entered darkroot basin, saw a hydra and some giants in the distance, turned back.. haha.

I'm glad I summoned the witch before the butterfly, because I wouldn't have been able to kill her.. never invested in ranged stuffs.

I got a Stone Greatshield from one of those big knights. It requires a ton of strength, is it worth the investment to use?

Also, should I give the Divine Ember to the Undead Parish blacksmith? Or is it better suited for a different guy? This upgrading business takes a lot of effort lol.

 

[Arjen]

I got a Stone Greatshield from one of those big knights. It requires a ton of strength, is it worth the investment to use?

Nah don't bother, there are far better shields.

Also, should I give the Divine Ember to the Undead Parish blacksmith? Or is it better suited for a different guy? This upgrading business takes a lot of effort lol.

Yes he's the only one who will take it anyway.

 

[Red Liquorice]

That would be interesting, but still not as brutal as the no upgrade rule at all. Beating 4K with a knife and Gwyn with a Dark Hand was fun.

You crazy!

 

[ArynCrinn]

That would be interesting, but still not as brutal as the no upgrade rule at all. Beating 4K with a knife and Gwyn with a Dark Hand was fun.

In some ways it would be harder than a no upgrade run. Because the only options are +15, Divine or Occult. Everything would need to revolve around being shieldless and zero poise.

But you beat 4K with a knife, I thought you said you used the Giant Hammer? And how did you beat Gywn with the Darkhand, that sounds cool. I'm at the 4K myself on my no upgrade no-healing playthrough, would the Bandit Knife be better than the Giant Hammer?

 

[Soulhouf]

In some ways it would be harder than a no upgrade run. Because the only options are +15, Divine or Occult. Everything would need to revolve around being shieldless and zero poise.

But you beat 4K with a knife, I thought you said you used the Giant Hammer? And how did you beat Gywn with the Darkhand, that sounds cool. I'm at the 4K myself on my no upgrade no-healing playthrough, would the Bandit Knife be better than the Giant Hammer?

First time I did it with the Giant Hammer after being slaughtered like 50 times trying to beat them with unupgraded Reinforced Club. But there are a member here who said that he was able to beat them with a knife buffed with pine resin. So I tried it and was able to beat them that way. The attack speed + the flat resin damage did the trick. I couldn't use the bandit knife since the pyromancer class (SL1) doesn't have enough dexterity to manipulate it.

Dark Hand has an occult modifier and that turned out to be quite effective against Gwyn and his Black Knights. It's quite fast and uses very little stamina per hit like the knife.
Attack speed really changed everything in a no upgrade no level up run because you counterbalance the lack of attack power that way.

 

[ArynCrinn]

First time I did it with the Giant Hammer after being slaughtered like 50 times trying to beat them with unupgraded Reinforced Club. But there are a member here who said that he was able to beat them with a knife buffed with pine resin. So I tried it and was able to beat them that way. The attack speed + the flat resin damage did the trick. I couldn't use the bandit knife since the pyromancer class (SL1) doesn't have enough dexterity to manipulate it.

Dark Hand has an occult modifier and that turned out to be quite effective against Gwyn and his Black Knights. It's quite fast and uses very few stamina per hit like the knife.
Attack speed really changed everything in a no upgrade no level up run because that way you counterbalance the lack of attack power.

Awesome, thanks for the info! I'll try the Darkhand myself. Actually I may try it out on O&S as well to see what the Occult modifier looks like with Red Tearstone.

And yeah, now that you mention it the dagger could be a nice weapon to use on 4K when stacking the buff DPS. I've always thought the Club and Hammer were just painfully slow in that fight and left your recovery times wide open.

Edit: And my stupidity, I forgot the Bandit Knife was different than the regular dagger.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

Well, I don't think anyone's entitled to beat the game at low levels, really. If adding level requirements to powerful gear makes the game unbeatable at SL 1, I'm perfectly okay with that if it means the rest of the game is balanced.

I completely disagree with this. One of the best things about the Souls series is the freedom that allows players to beat the game however they want, including without leveling.

Getting rid of ganking is not at all worth destroying that freedom.

 

[Nekki]

Nah don't bother, there are far better shields.


Yes he's the only one who will take it anyway.

Thank you!

 

[Raide]

Holy crap! I killed the Hellkite Dragon! Bridge Crossing everywhere rejoice!

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Uggghhhh... So I'm trying to get back into Dark Souls after having bought it back around Halloween and playing it a good amount. But I haven't touched it since probably around November.

So I'm trying to get back into the swing of things and I feel like I have to relearn everything now, when I didn't really get too far into things in the first place. I'm just crippled with indecision as to where to go or what to do, so the last couple times I've fired it up I just start walking around and then quit the game since I have about 40,000 souls and don't want to get killed quickly due to how rusty I am.


I'm just trying to think what I was trying to do before my hiatus from the game. I had just killed the Hydra in Darkroot Basin (?) and had killed the Gargoyles and rang the first bell and I think I was going to go back to Firelink Shrine and explore around there. I'm right around the one Blacksmith near the one big lightning hopping monster guy, who I had killed. Whats the quickest way back to Firelink from there?


And is the Drake Sword a good early weapon? I'm just trying to figure out the upgrade system and what weapons or armor I should invest in upgrading.

 

[Arjen]

Uggghhhh... So I'm trying to get back into Dark Souls after having bought it back around Halloween and playing it a good amount. But I haven't touched it since probably around November.

So I'm trying to get back into the swing of things and I feel like I have to relearn everything now, when I didn't really get too far into things in the first place. I'm just crippled with indecision as to where to go or what to do, so the last couple times I've fired it up I just start walking around and then quit the game since I have about 40,000 souls and don't want to get killed quickly due to how rusty I am.


I'm just trying to think what I was trying to do before my hiatus from the game. I had just killed the Hydra in Darkroot Basin (?) and had killed the Gargoyles and rang the first bell and I think I was going to go back to Firelink Shrine and explore around there. I'm right around the one Blacksmith near the one big lightning hopping monster guy, who I had killed. Whats the quickest way back to Firelink from there?


And is the Drake Sword a good early weapon? I'm just trying to figure out the upgrade system and what weapons or armor I should invest in upgrading.

Quickest way to firelink is the church where you fought those gargoyles, there's an elevator that takes you straight down.
I would avoid the drake sword, it looks tempting now, but will bite you in the ass later. Find a weapon with a moveset you like and take it to plus five at the blacksmith.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Whats the quickest way back to Firelink from there?


And is the Drake Sword a good early weapon? I'm just trying to figure out the upgrade system and what weapons or armor I should invest in upgrading.

Quickest way to Firelink is the lift in the Parish, below where the Gargoyles were, it's just a tiny run back from the bonfire where you are.

The Drake Sword is a good 'very early' weapon, but cannot be upgraded at all so soon becomes outclassed by pretty much anything. Try some of the other weapons you've probably picked up by now or on sale from merchants, there's a lot of variety.

It only takes 9 shards to take a weapon to 5+ so it's pretty cheap and easy to do so with any weapon(s) you fancy.

 

[Raide]

Uggghhhh... So I'm trying to get back into Dark Souls after having bought it back around Halloween and playing it a good amount. But I haven't touched it since probably around November.

So I'm trying to get back into the swing of things and I feel like I have to relearn everything now, when I didn't really get too far into things in the first place. I'm just crippled with indecision as to where to go or what to do, so the last couple times I've fired it up I just start walking around and then quit the game since I have about 40,000 souls and don't want to get killed quickly due to how rusty I am.


I'm just trying to think what I was trying to do before my hiatus from the game. I had just killed the Hydra in Darkroot Basin (?) and had killed the Gargoyles and rang the first bell and I think I was going to go back to Firelink Shrine and explore around there. I'm right around the one Blacksmith near the one big lightning hopping monster guy, who I had killed. Whats the quickest way back to Firelink from there?


And is the Drake Sword a good early weapon? I'm just trying to figure out the upgrade system and what weapons or armor I should invest in upgrading.

It is a pretty good weapon early on but if you spend you points well and forge the right weapons, it gets passed by most other weapons.

As for Firelink. Head back to Blacksmith, back to the top and run through the church and you have the lifts right there.

After you first bell, you should be venturing to Blighttown and head towards the second bell.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

It occurred to me while playing yesterday that I haven't killed Gaping Dragon or bothered with Upper Blighttown in a loooooooong time. So used to skipping all that with the Master Key.

Started a new character and I'm kind of tempted to fight Gaping Dragon in order to get the souls and the DKGA, but it's just such a bland fight.

Also, can I just mention how damn long it took me to discover Rickert? Had no idea he was there until probably my third NG.

So my question is, what other (relatively) obvious things have you all missed?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I completely disagree with this. One of the best things about the Souls series is the freedom that allows players to beat the game however they want, including without leveling.

That's only even possible for most SL1 players (those who aren't super-duper hardcore) because of the tons of non-scaling damage types. If From had put level requirements or hadn't put non-scaling weapons, very few would have done the SL1 run (it's still possible as you see people do "no upgrades" runs anyway), and no one would have missed it or lamented it... because guess what, the point of the game is to explore for treasure to help you vanquish your foes, and spend the souls you earn on things that help you progress (weapon or armour upgrades, buying spells or rings, leveling up etc). Also part of the tension of the game is the fear of losing all those precious souls. SL1/no-upgrade runs are quirky challenges a very tiny minority of people do to gimp themselves and make the game more challenging to them, but it has nothing to do with how the game was conceived.

Getting rid of ganking is not at all worth destroying that freedom.

I'm not even talking about ganking, but I disagree. I'd rather have fun and balanced PvP and low-level invasions than allowing a minority of nerds the "freedom" to beat the game with a level 1 pyromancer with an ascended+5 pyro flame and a lightning+5 hand axe. And hell you'd still have freedom to try to beat the game using any kind of "challenge rules" you'd want: you can still try to beat the game at SL1, only you'd be much weaker. Isn't that what SL1 runs are about anyway, the challenge?

 

[toddhunter]

You will never get balanced invasions. The whole point of it really is for people to be dicks and try to kill you.

I very much think it is fine as is. Now if they could make it actually work so you could summon helpers and refine the reporting systems and the like it would be better.

 

[Sullichin]

That's only even possible for most SL1 players (those who aren't super-duper hardcore) because of the tons of non-scaling damage types. If From had put level requirements or hadn't put non-scaling weapons, very few would have done the SL1 run (it's still possible as you see people do "no upgrades" runs anyway), and no one would have missed it or lamented it... because guess what, the point of the game is to explore for treasure to help you vanquish your foes, and spend the souls you earn on things that help you progress (weapon or armour upgrades, buying spells or rings, leveling up etc). Also part of the tension of the game is the fear of losing all those precious souls. SL1/no-upgrade runs are quirky challenges a very tiny minority of people do to gimp themselves and make the game more challenging to them, but it has nothing to do with how the game was conceived.


I'm not even talking about ganking, but I disagree. I'd rather have fun and balanced PvP and low-level invasions than allowing a minority of nerds the "freedom" to beat the game with a level 1 pyromancer with an ascended+5 pyro flame and a lightning+5 hand axe. And hell you'd still have freedom to try to beat the game using any kind of "challenge rules" you'd want: you can still try to beat the game at SL1, only you'd be much weaker. Isn't that what SL1 runs are about anyway, the challenge?

I strongly disagree with this. Both Demon's and Dark Souls SL1 classes are set up perfectly to be able to beat the game at that level. It's definitely intended. Pyromancy with no stat investment, elemental weapon upgrades, the occult club and blacksmith hammer that can be used at SL1... it's all intentional. The ability to troll new players is also intentional as well.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

If I start the DLC, am I locked into it until its done, like the Painted World? Is SL85 good enough to take it on?

I have the Duke's Archives, Tomb of the Giants and New Londo open to me. Spent a couple of hours getting some unique weapons like the Darkmoon Bow and Gravelord Sword

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I strongly disagree with this. Both Demon's and Dark Souls SL1 classes are set up perfectly to be able to beat the game at that level. It's definitely intended. Pyromancy with no stat investment, elemental weapon upgrades, the occult club and blacksmith hammer that can be used at SL1... it's all intentional. The ability to troll new players is also intentional as well.

You don't know that it's intentional, it could just as easily be something they overlooked. Why do you think the ability to invade comes so much later in the game and is pretty "hidden" from players? Why do you think there are even level ranges for invading (and cooping), if some form of balance were not intended?

The fact is that the PvP is an afterthought by From. That's why you have chain-BS and other issues they haven't fixed and likely never will. They fixed a few things (nerfing TWoP, fog ring, etc.) but obviously they won't fix everything.

If I start the DLC, am I locked into it until its done, like the Painted World? Is SL85 good enough to take it on?

No, you can warp in and out of the bonfires at will, and yes, it's plenty.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

No, you can warp in and out of the bonfires at will, and yes, it's plenty.

Cheers. Think I'll take on the Tomb of Giants first

 

[Sullichin]

You don't know that it's intentional, it could just as easily be something they overlooked. Why do you think the ability to invade comes so much later in the game and is pretty "hidden" from players? Why do you think there are even level ranges for invading (and cooping), if some form of balance were not intended?

The fact is that the PvP is an afterthought by From. That's why you have chain-BS and other issues they haven't fixed and likely never will. They fixed a few things (nerfing TWoP, fog ring, etc.) but obviously they won't fix everything.


No, you can warp in and out of the bonfires at will, and yes, it's plenty.

If they didn't want you to be able to invade early areas, the invasion items wouldn't work there

I definitely think being able to beat the game at low levels is intentional. How could it not be? it's basically a hallmark of this series at this point. It's one reason this thread is so active even though the game is a year and a half old.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

If From had put level requirements or hadn't put non-scaling weapons, very few would have done the SL1 run (it's still possible as you see people do "no upgrades" runs anyway), and no one would have missed it or lamented it... because guess what, the point of the game is to explore for treasure to help you vanquish your foes, and spend the souls you earn on things that help you progress (weapon or armour upgrades, buying spells or rings, leveling up etc). Also part of the tension of the game is the fear of losing all those precious souls. SL1/no-upgrade runs are quirky challenges a very tiny minority of people do to gimp themselves and make the game more challenging to them, but it has nothing to do with how the game was conceived.

This is a narrow view of what makes the Souls series appealing and I happen to disagree with it.

In my opinion the point of these games is not "get souls, buy more shit." The point of these games (along with the difficulty) is that you can play through them in any way you please.

Want to turn the game into Borderlands: Fantasy Edition and co-op every single level with no less than three summons (sloppy netcode permitting)? Do it.

Want to RP as Rocky and exclusively punch your opponents? Do it.

Want to avoid leveling entirely and wear no armor? Do it.

The desire to do things like challenge runs is, quite likely, far more popular than you probably think.

I strongly disagree with this. Both Demon's and Dark Souls SL1 classes are set up perfectly to be able to beat the game at that level. It's definitely intended. Pyromancy with no stat investment, elemental weapon upgrades, the occult club and blacksmith hammer that can be used at SL1... it's all intentional. The ability to troll new players is also intentional as well.

Exactly.

From Soft knows their audience. They built these games with things like challenge runs and sequence breaking in mind (seriously, that's the whole point of the Master Key). Obviously not their primary design goals, but they sure as hell wanted players to have the ability to do those sorts of things.

Toddhunter already brought it up, but yeah, invasions were never meant to be perfectly balanced, skill-based encounters. You want a fair duel, use the Red Sign Soapstone.

 

[Raide]

Quick question. I have a Bow of Pharis+10, is it worth making this Fire/Ligning and then +ing up again? Also, I just made a Lightning Uchi. Did I make a mistake or should I have gone for fire?

Cheers!