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[Inferno313]

David Brenner (the editor) is no slouch in the industry. Like duckroll said the director has final say so a new guy wouldn't change anything.

Yes, it seems like people don't often know what exactly an editor does. Typically, an editor is not choosing which scenes go where. That happened back in the screenwriting stage. That's a matter of story structure. That stuff can change and be tweaked during the editing process, but typically that stuff follows the screenplay. That's also typically a decision that would come down from the director, rather than something an editor would do on their own.

Editors assemble the best footage from the shoot in the best way possible on a shot-by-shot basis. Their job is less big-picture "First this scene, then this scene" but small-scale minutia like: "First we hang on this wide shot for 5 seconds, then cut to this close up for 2, then back to a medium."

 

[Ahasverus]

He has a severe case of "lovely guy". He's just a good guy, how would you tell no to this man?

I kind of hate him now, but if I saw him in person right now, I'd probably hug him and apologize, then mortgage my house for his totally awesome Dawn of Sucker Punch v 300: The Watchmening of Gahoole

 

[IconGrist]

So I scrolled through the first page of the |OT| and nope.gif'd right out of there. Didn't even bother subbing to it.

I'm totally cool with discussing the movie good, bad or indifferent but that? No. I'm not doing that.

 

[BadAss2961]

Those that work with Snyder not only have nothing bad to say about him, they tend to love him. Especially the women i've noticed.

He's very convincing and apparently a blast to work with. Batman v Superman was totally his idea, they let him run with it and godfather the DCEU they've been trying to set up for god knows how long. Chris Nolan couldn't convince Ben to direct Man of Steel, Zack committed him to leading a cinematic universe coming off a critically divisive film.

You might think he's on the ropes right now, but wait for the receipts in the coming weeks.

 

[Finaika]

I'm gonna watch this now!

Super hyped!

 

[Draconian]

My hype's still pretty high because of the reviews I've read none of the negatives have really bothered me. I figure if I've enjoyed Snyder's other movies, it's a safe bet I'll probably like this one too. We'll see in 8 days though! Looking forward to reading some more impressions here tomorrow.

 

[duckroll]

Yes, it seems like people don't often know what exactly an editor does. Typically, an editor is not choosing which scenes go where. That happened back in the screenwriting stage. That's a matter of story structure. That stuff can change and be tweaked during the editing process, but typically that stuff follows the screenplay. That's also typically a decision that would come down from the director, rather than something an editor would do on their own.

Editors assemble the best footage from the shoot in the best way possible on a shot-by-shot basis. Their job is less big-picture "First this scene, then this scene" but small-scale minutia like: "First we hang on this wide shot for 5 seconds, then cut to this close up for 2, then back to a medium."

I think it's best to think of editors as hairdressers in a way. They're trained in how to do different styles of cuts, from experience they know how much to trim to get the best out of a look, they can recommend certain alterations to bring out the best in the cut, but ultimately they can't do anything if you don't tell them what sort of look you want. And if you keep asking them to make stupid decisions, you will get a shit haircut no matter what.

 

[Dead]

Zack Snyder is a fascinating person to me.

All of his movies are divisive. Half hate everything he touches, the other half loves it. You go into that RT thread right now, even this thread, and the level of just hate towards him and his wife is palpable. Yet coming from people who have worked with him not a single bad word has ever been said. Not before a project, not during a project, not after a project. Not a single bad word. it's not like there isn't precedence. We've all heard bad stories about directors being hard to deal with, terrible people, joyless, unfocused, chaotic, etc. Where is the Snyder hate?

And despite this half and half look at his movies he continues to get work. And not just bottom of the barrel work. This guy basically gets to do whatever the hell he wants. He's big enough he has his own goddamn production company he runs with his wife. This guy releases Sucker Punch and people shit on it almost like they were encouraged to and WB gives him the keys to DC kingdom.

I'm beginning to think he's actually a real life Professor X. Just making people keep him around.

I don't mean this negatively. I like Snyder. A lot actually.

He's pretty much never bombed out aside from Sucker Punch, and one movie was not going to sink his career especially when it was seen as essentially a nerds little passion project (which still to this day no one probably has any idea on how to read what it's true themes and intentions are). Watchmen surely earned him significant creative credibility in regards to making a film once considered unfilmable and is now somewhat of a cult classic. That movie surely played a big part in Nolan's choice of going with him.

Honestly, the big issue and the biggest mistake WB and Nolan made in choosing Snyder (and even in retrospect, I don't see how there was any better choice than him) was joining him at the hip with David S Goyer. Nolan could survive Goyer because, all bullshit aside, he can actually write a script and thus filter Goyer out (for the most part) and make the movies his. Snyder needed to be paired with a much stronger writer for his vision to work. So taking Goyer, an idea man with no inclination as to how to write a good script and Snyder another idea man (as well a visualist) who also is no script-writer...well. This is going to sounds like me placing all the blame at Nolan's feet, and I don't mean it that way, but I feel that if he was going to put his name on Man of Steel and take story credit, he should have had a hand in the actual script as well.

For all the talk of Chris Terrio finally being that match for Snyder...we still don't know because for all we know the BvS script is still fundamentally Goyer.

Justice League would be the first true test of Snyder without him...and who knows if well see that at this point.

 

[Smokey_Run]

Zack strikes me as the type that would be like a kid in a candy shop having the keys to the DC universe.. and that might be more of a problem than a positive. One take away from the impressions I've heard of this film is that it's dense as hell with information and stuff. Sometimes less is more and there really isn't anyone to reign him in.

 

[Ahasverus]

For all the talk of Chris Terrio finally being that match for Snyder...we still don't know because for all we know the BvS script is still fundamentally Goyer.

I stand by saying that the plot is just fine. There is nothing inherently stupid, and the dialogue if anything is too pompous, but it comes that way because of how the actors are directed, give the same "operatic" dialogue to Fincher and he'd make it sound great. I can put my hands on the fire and say Terrio is not the culprit here.

In hindsight, the Goyer version would have probably be better, but that's because Zack would have had less to butch.

 

[guek]

I remember whenever someone would bring up trepidation about Goyer writing BvS, they'd get shouted down about how Terrio da gawd rewrote the whole thing. If the script is indeed a mess, Terrio doesn't deserve a pass just because Goyer is the preferred whipping boy.

 

[duckroll]

Justice League would be the first true test of Snyder without him...and who knows if well see that at this point.

Are we even certain of that? What if Goyer and Snyder already discussed the future before he departed BvS? Terrio isn't writing in a vacuum, he's still serving a director. Anything he writes will be what Snyder wants to direct in the first place.

 

[BadAss2961]

I stand by saying that the plot is just fine. There is nothing inherently stupid, and the dialogue if anything is too pompous, but it comes that way because of how the actors are directed, give the same "operatic" dialogue to Fincher and he'd make it sound great. I can put my hands on the fire and say Terrio is not the culprit here.

In hindsight, the Goyer version would have probably be better, but that's because Zack would have had less to butch.

Weird thing is I keep hearing the performances are good.

Most buzzword complaints i've seen are, editing, mess, dark, loud, joyless and humorless.

 

[jey_16]

I feel like Goyer is more of an ideas guy but you wouldn't trust him with an actual script. That's why you had Nolan for TDK and Terrio for BvS

Hard for me to say without seeing the film in regards to BvS but I did think some of the lines in MoS were a bit cringe worthy, the hope was Terrio would fix this for BvS

 

[Dead]

I remember whenever someone would bring up trepidation about Goyer writing BvS, they'd get shouted down about how Terrio da gawd rewrote the whole thing. If the script is indeed a mess, Terrio doesn't deserve a pass just because Goyer is the preferred whipping boy.

the dude gets first billing on screen credit, so clearly he must have done a decent amount, so obviously he isn't blame free if the script truly is problematic and the issue aren't all laid at Snyder's feet (which it sounds they very well could be)

 

[a916]

Weird thing is I keep hearing the performances are good.

Most buzzword complaints i've seen are, editing, mess, dark, loud, joyless and humorless.

Which, in all honesty doesn't require a reboot or overhaul. It needs a new person at the helm to course correct.

Though I've heard the not mah Superman, not mah Batman comments already... those people nothing will save them except a complete reboot.

 

[guek]

the dude gets first billing on screen credit, so clearly he must have done a decent amount, so obviously he isn't blame free if the script truly is problematic and the issue aren't all laid at Snyder's feet (which it sounds they very well could be)

Yup. Though I get the impression that unlike MoS, the blame game is going to be tough to pin down. Obviously Snyder deserves a lot of it but how much did he mandate and how much is it the fault of the writers? What of producer and studio meddling? It's a tough call no matter what unless someone pulls a Trank and starts pointing fingers.

Which, in all honesty doesn't require a reboot or overhaul. It needs a new person at the helm to course correct.

Though I've heard the not mah Superman, not mah Batman comments already... those people nothing will save them except a complete reboot.

What grinds my gears the most based on the spoilers I've read is

Spoiler

not that Batman and Superman kill but the manner and ease in which they do it, like it doesn't seem to matter.

From a world building perspective, that's almost impossible to correct. It poisons the well going forward with these characters.

 

[broncobuster]

What grinds my gears the most based on the spoilers I've read is

Spoiler

not that Batman and Superman kill but the manner and ease in which they do it, like it doesn't seem to matter.

From a world building perspective, that's almost impossible to correct. It poisons the well going forward with these characters.

Heaps of misinformation and exaggeration going around. We're not at the stage where we can talk about spoilers here, but don't believe everything y...you get the rest.

Which, in all honesty doesn't require a reboot or overhaul. It needs a new person at the helm to course correct.

Though I've heard the not mah Superman, not mah Batman comments already... those people nothing will save them except a complete reboot.

Course correct is what I want. At the end of the day, I like the intent; the modern gods angle, Morrison's JLA. This hypothetical reboot, one that aims to be MCU, CW, JLI. I'm not against it. I'd love it in its own way, should it happen. I just don't believe it's necessary to abandon this approach. Execute on it well.

 

[VanWinkle]

Is Batman in Suicide Squad? I felt like I saw him in one of the trailers but I can't remember.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Is Batman in Suicide Squad? I felt like I saw him in one of the trailers but I can't remember.

He is, but as far as anybody's been able to tell, it's just in a flashback.

 

[Dead]

He is, but as far as anybody's been able to tell, it's just in a flashback.

Flashback seems to be significant scene though, at least based on the trailers

I'm actually really curious as to the structure of Suicide Squad because thinking about it...a good chunk of footage from the trailers has been from the "when Joker met Harley" scenes

 

[IconGrist]

He is, but as far as anybody's been able to tell, it's just in a flashback.

Ayer said they made Affleck fight. So if it's just a flashback no one can say but it's more than just him riding atop Joker's car.

 

[Smokey_Run]

Batman in SS:

Spoiler

Wasn't there set pics of Affleck looking like Wayne on set, too?

 

[VanWinkle]

He is, but as far as anybody's been able to tell, it's just in a flashback.

Ah okay. I just want more Affleck Batman. He seems like the perfect person for the role from the stuff I've seen.

 

[Kibbles]

Batman in SS:

Spoiler

Wasn't there set pics of Affleck looking like Wayne on set, too?

Spoiler

Sure was. there were pics of him leaving his trailer with the gray hair, suit and all on the suicide squad set. Also pics of him in obvious batman outfit with a sheet over him. (you could see the horns poking through the sheet and shit lol)

 

[Draconian]

Suicide Squad looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun in a few months. I love that cast.

 

[VanWinkle]

Suicide Squad looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun in a few months. I love that cast.

I hope for something good. The DC cinematic universe could really use a critically-acclaimed movie right now.

 

[guek]

Heaps of misinformation and exaggeration going around. We're not at the stage where we can talk about spoilers here, but don't believe everything y...you get the rest.

Well that's encouraging. I wont see it myself until next tuesday most likely

 

[BadAss2961]

Flashback seems to be significant scene though, at least based on the trailers

I'm actually really curious as to the structure of Suicide Squad because thinking about it...a good chunk of footage from the trailers has been from the "when Joker met Harley" scenes

Based on official photos, we'll be getting the whole backstory. Therapy sessions and all.

 

[The Illiterati]

I'm not a regular reader of this thread, so I apologize if it's been covered, but I find the critical pile on this film to feel a little forced. I want to be clear I'm not shouting conspiracy, and I personally think the trailers made the film look terrible, so please don't think I'm even coming at it from a defensive angle.

It feels sort of like what Alex Proyas' said a few weeks back was right, that most critics simply base their opinion off of a pack mentality. Now I'm not saying they don't all think the film is bad. But the sheer viciousness and seeming attempts to one up each other in declaring just how bad this movie is don't feel like they would occur in a vacuum. Anyone agree or disagree?

 

[Gleethor]

"In Squad we trust" is becoming a very relevant tagline

 

[Dysun]

I hope for something good. The DC cinematic universe could really use a critically-acclaimed movie right now.

At least the Batman Cinematic Universe is pointed in the right direction

Spoiler

I hope

 

[IconGrist]

I'm not a regular reader of this thread, so I apologize if it's been covered, but I find the critical pile on this film to feel a little forced. I want to be clear I'm not shouting conspiracy, and I personally think the trailers made the film look terrible, so please don't think I'm even coming at it from a defensive angle.

It feels sort of like what Alex Proyas' said a few weeks back was right, that most critics simply base their opinion off of a pack mentality. Now I'm not saying they don't all think the film is bad. But the sheer viciousness and seeming attempts to one up each other in declaring just how bad this movie is don't feel like they would occur in a vacuum. Anyone agree or disagree?

I wouldn't call conspiracy because that's just silly. I would say that driving traffic to your site has taken precedence so "I didn't like this movie but how can I attract hits when everyone is flocking to that person who said it was the worst movie ever..." is definitely a thing going on.

 

[Cooter]

I'm not a regular reader of this thread, so I apologize if it's been covered, but I find the critical pile on this film to feel a little forced. I want to be clear I'm not shouting conspiracy, and I personally think the trailers made the film look terrible, so please don't think I'm even coming at it from a defensive angle.

It feels sort of like what Alex Proyas' said a few weeks back was right, that most critics simply base their opinion off of a pack mentality. Now I'm not saying they don't all think the film is bad. But the sheer viciousness and seeming attempts to one up each other in declaring just how bad this movie is don't feel like they would occur in a vacuum. Anyone agree or disagree?

Agree. A 33 is ridiculous. I think many factors are contributing to that including the pack mentality you mentioned. Oh well. I'm not losing sleep over it. I can't quit this thread either. Haha

 

[Gleethor]

I'm not a regular reader of this thread, so I apologize if it's been covered, but I find the critical pile on this film to feel a little forced. I want to be clear I'm not shouting conspiracy, and I personally think the trailers made the film look terrible, so please don't think I'm even coming at it from a defensive angle.

It feels sort of like what Alex Proyas' said a few weeks back was right, that most critics simply base their opinion off of a pack mentality. Now I'm not saying they don't all think the film is bad. But the sheer viciousness and seeming attempts to one up each other in declaring just how bad this movie is don't feel like they would occur in a vacuum. Anyone agree or disagree?

I'm abstaining from this line of discussion (or really any discussion about its quality) until I've seen the film.

But, I do think there is a rational conversation to be had on this subject. Proyas was childish in how he handled it, but there was a little bit of truth to what he was saying.

 

[TropicalFish]

Just got back from watching the movie. I do have a few issues about certain scenes but tbh they're offset by FUCKING WONDER WOMAN Y'ALL SHE FUCKING SLAYED.

I got teary eyed watching the film's climax lmfao.

Yeah this definitely doesn't deserve the lashings it's been getting. I loved it and Imma watch it again on Saturday and patiently wait for the blu-ray to come out with the extended scenes.

 

[duckroll]

The only rational conversation to have is that people tend to be influenced by each other. This is nothing new or shocking. If you liked something, but you went with 5 friends and they all hated it and spent the entire night talking about how bad it was and all the things wrong with it, it is possible, even likely that your opinion might be lowered. On the other hand if you somewhat disliked it, in the same scenario you would probably end up outright hating it too. Flip it around, if everyone in the group loved it, appreciation for it increases as each person emphasizes the parts they liked most. If you disliked it, in such a scenario you might see the positive side and be less harsh towards it. This can apply to anything - film, music, food, literature, games, etc.

Why is it that this "conversation" only comes up when something is being negatively trashed, and not when there's an overwhelming unanimous positive reaction for something? Because when something is being trashed, someone gets hurt and upset, and wants to rationalize it. Again, that's also human nature. Not sure if it's really that interesting a conversation.

 

[VanWinkle]

The only rational conversation to have is that people tend to be influenced by each other. This is nothing new or shocking. If you liked something, but you went with 5 friends and they all hated it and spent the entire night talking about how bad it was and all the things wrong with it, it is possible, even likely that your opinion might be lowered. On the other hand if you somewhat disliked it, in the same scenario you would probably end up outright hating it too. Flip it around, if everyone in the group loved it, appreciation for it increases as each person emphasizes the parts they liked most. If you disliked it, in such a scenario you might see the positive side and be less harsh towards it. This can apply to anything - film, music, food, literature, games, etc.

Why is it that this "conversation" only comes up when something is being negatively trashed, and not when there's an overwhelming unanimous positive reaction for something? Because when something is being trashed, someone gets hurt and upset, and wants to rationalize it. Again, that's also human nation. Not sure if it's really that interesting a conversation.

Agreed

 

[BadAss2961]

I'm not a regular reader of this thread, so I apologize if it's been covered, but I find the critical pile on this film to feel a little forced. I want to be clear I'm not shouting conspiracy, and I personally think the trailers made the film look terrible, so please don't think I'm even coming at it from a defensive angle.

It feels sort of like what Alex Proyas' said a few weeks back was right, that most critics simply base their opinion off of a pack mentality. Now I'm not saying they don't all think the film is bad. But the sheer viciousness and seeming attempts to one up each other in declaring just how bad this movie is don't feel like they would occur in a vacuum. Anyone agree or disagree?

There's a growing hard-on for my boy Zack for sure. That much i've known.

Well, blackout time for me. Gotta clear my head. See you guys when I see you. Enjoy yourselves... Especially those of you moping around over trolls and some weaksauce e-tomatoes.

 

[Cooter]

Just got back from watching the movie. I do have a few issues about certain scenes but tbh they're offset by FUCKING WONDER WOMAN Y'ALL SHE FUCKING SLAYED.

I got teary eyed watching the film's climax lmfao.

Yeah this definitely doesn't deserve the lashings it's been getting. I loved it and Imma watch it again on Saturday and patiently wait for the blu-ray to come out with the extended scenes.

Nice to hear this movie is capable of entertaining people. You'd think that was nearly impossible at this point. When you look at all the movies in the low 30s where BvS sits you wonder if there were fans at the time coming home with such enthusiasm after their viewing. Like, has the post above ever been mimicked after someone saw Paul Blart Mall Cop? The disconnect is so interesting to me. Guess it's just a Zack Snyder thing.

 

[The Illiterati]

The only rational conversation to have is that people tend to be influenced by each other. This is nothing new or shocking. If you liked something, but you went with 5 friends and they all hated it and spent the entire night talking about how bad it was and all the things wrong with it, it is possible, even likely that your opinion might be lowered. On the other hand if you somewhat disliked it, in the same scenario you would probably end up outright hating it too. Flip it around, if everyone in the group loved it, appreciation for it increases as each person emphasizes the parts they liked most. If you disliked it, in such a scenario you might see the positive side and be less harsh towards it. This can apply to anything - film, music, food, literature, games, etc.

Why is it that this "conversation" only comes up when something is being negatively trashed, and not when there's an overwhelming unanimous positive reaction for something? Because when something is being trashed, someone gets hurt and upset, and wants to rationalize it. Again, that's also human nature. Not sure if it's really that interesting a conversation.

I'm less concerned with peer pressure in the general community. I just find this twitter/social media obsessed critic community to be more and more based on who can be more hyperbolic in their praise or damnation, all based on what their fellow critics are thinking. It may not be new, but I find it to be more gross and obvious in this case. I personally far more respect opinions of those critics I know attempt to form their own reviews within a vacuum and not based around a social zeitgeist. Again, this movie may well end up a garbage fire, but I think if so many critics weren't reading each others reviews the hatred would still not reach such monumental levels.

 

[Ross61]

Are we even certain of that? What if Goyer and Snyder already discussed the future before he departed BvS? Terrio isn't writing in a vacuum, he's still serving a director. Anything he writes will be what Snyder wants to direct in the first place.

They came up with the story together, but it sounded mostly like Zack was just throwing around ideas while Terrio was actually writing.

Ah, well. DCEU is off to a shaky start. I have no doubt that it they focus on here on out the sins of the past will be at least forgiven. SS and WW are great then we're back on track..........until Justice League where we give Zack and Terrio there final chance.

On a funny side-note: some of the theories actually would've been a better movie.

 

[3N16MA]

Why do people keep suggesting Miller when Simo said they aren't on good terms right now? It's dead, bury it.

I believe those posters were hinting at Ben not Miller.

 

[TropicalFish]

I had no idea y'all hated the movie so much in here.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I had no idea y'all hated the movie so much in here.

In here? Most of us haven't seen it yet and are just panicking.

 

[Cooter]

In here? Most of us haven't seen it yet and are just panicking.

This. I can't wait to see how opinions in here play out.

 

[IconGrist]

I had no idea y'all hated the movie so much in here.

No, Ahasverus and Error were losing their shit over the bad reviews. The rest of us are at a "wait and see".

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I think a fan could cut this into a better movie. Also, the lack of blood is really dumb.

 

[The Driver]

This thread is pretty okay with the movie, most have seen it have like it, maybe one really didn't (guy who got told to shut the fuck up by the junior lol), and two or so where disappointed.

The last 5 pages of the spoiler OT wasn't actually that bad either, obviously lots of the usual suspects who haven't seen it twisting stuff in the movie to fit their narrative, but a lot of level headed guys who where not even that big on the movie making sure to correct them mixed with a good amount of people just coming back from screenings and not understanding the hate it's gotten.

As a comic book fan, I was super into a lot of the geeky things in the film and I hope this DCEU takes off, but I can recognize the movie does have some big faults like MoS did. Still didn't stop me from overall enjoying it, and definitely not stopping me from having my eyeballs melted again tomorrow!

 

[duckroll]

I think a fan could cut this into a better movie. Also, the lack of blood is really dumb.

Whoa whoa whoa. Watch the spoilers. "Do you bleed" is a major hook in the trailers. You just told us the outcome.