bryanee
Member
I've never met a person who doesn't know who Wonder Woman is. My 6 year old niece knows who she is and no its not because she got it from me.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DC Cinematic Universe |OT| Superfriends with Benefits
- Thread starter Penguin
- Start date
- Status
I've never met a person who doesn't know who Wonder Woman is. My 6 year old niece knows who she is and no its not because she got it from me.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I believe you but that's purely anecdotal. Outside of the english-speaking world, she is really not that well known. The Lynda Carter show was a long time ago. Most people seem to like her in BvS so her movie could end up being very popular but I think that they introduced her poorly in BvS, they don't explain a single thing about her.
The average on RT is 5.3 or so. The percent that recommended it is the 34 percent or whatever. Those are very different propositions and for the most part 60% is the dividing line between fresh or not. That means either many liked it a lot while the majority did not or that the norm is a tempered rotten rating. That's fairly different from the movies people compare it to in order to make jokes.
right... so i woke up this morning still a little bummed about the reviews. As the day went on i was thinking about all the movies snyder has done and i pretty much enjoy them all (yes even sucker punch... slightly)
sooooo i thought to myself, fuck it... i'm getting back on the hype train. I couldn't care less about the reviews now and me and my brother have watched the dark knight, watchmen and currently finishing off man of steel at this moment.
my best friend who moved to austrailia last year saw it today and said it was awesome, so i'm going to take his word for it over anyone elses.
i'm going tomorrow and cannot fucking wait!! bring on BATMAN v SUPERMAN !!!!!
sooooo i thought to myself, fuck it... i'm getting back on the hype train. I couldn't care less about the reviews now and me and my brother have watched the dark knight, watchmen and currently finishing off man of steel at this moment.
my best friend who moved to austrailia last year saw it today and said it was awesome, so i'm going to take his word for it over anyone elses.
i'm going tomorrow and cannot fucking wait!! bring on BATMAN v SUPERMAN !!!!!
beyond_death
Member
Probably not a popular opinion but I hope Snyder atleast does JL1 still. I REALLY like BvS and I'm going to see it tomorrow in Imax so it'll be interesting to see if my opinion changes at all, but right now I hope Snyder gives his all for JL1.
GringoSuave89
Banned
even before this hoopla, I never was a fan of RT. You can get the same score on two different movies, and there are just too many variables dependent on it. Aggregated scores for anything (movies, music, video games) never give you the full picture, and the fact more and more people lean on them to make decisions is troubling to say the least.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Will see it tomorrow. So excited. Let's hope the dream isn't dead :">
Discotheque
Banned
pick a reviewer you like and read their impressions on it, or look at certain gaffers that you tend to agree with and those can maybe inform you.
RT's misled me a number of times, but luckily certain reviewers that i trust still had good things to say about certain trashed movies. i'm not getting that with this but i'm still really intrigued because I LOVE batman and I am curious to see how him and alfred are portrayed. and also really curious just how cynical this movie gets.
RT's misled me a number of times, but luckily certain reviewers that i trust still had good things to say about certain trashed movies. i'm not getting that with this but i'm still really intrigued because I LOVE batman and I am curious to see how him and alfred are portrayed. and also really curious just how cynical this movie gets.
broncobuster
Banned
Don't know if you're reading impressions, but nobody picked up on the the most cynical part of the film. Waiting to see if anybody does before I post it in the spoiler thread.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
?
I'm curious about what part of the movie you're talking about. Can you allude to it in spoiler tags ?
BlackGoku03
Member
Same thing for my wife and I.
Dropping off the kid at my mom's and then we drive an hour to the closest LieMAX.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Oh man, just got out, more thoughts later, but despite some issues, that was one HELL of a movie!
Discotheque
Banned
skimming them, i want to avoid spoilers. will see what's up in the spoiler thread after i see it tomorrow.
I knew it! Gotta strong feeling most of DCCU-GAF is gonna dig this movie.
You can't answer for me!!
The funniest review was Drew McWheeny... he was seething and shaking during his review, he had to hold back but he kept raising his voice lol...
But yeah, it's pretty difficult I'd imagine because the project came from a place of love, you can tell he cares. There's a way of addressing the negativities of the film without being vitriolic... which the other threads clearly don't.
I said most. I wouldn't dare answer for you!
GreyOcelot
Member
i liked this a lot. definitely has pacing issues, but it was a beautiful movie to look at. tons of great references to a lot of famous books
Man, I feel really bad for Zack Snyder. You can tell in that Yahoo interview that he wasn't in a good place.
It's like the whole Internet is ganging up on him. I get that the movie doesn't align with certain peoples preconceptions of the characters, or they have some legitimate criticisms such as editing, pacing, etc., but this meme filled hyperbole bandwagon is getting out of control.
Must feel like shit to deal with all this hate coming from every direction on a project you spent 3 years of your life working on.
It's like the whole Internet is ganging up on him. I get that the movie doesn't align with certain peoples preconceptions of the characters, or they have some legitimate criticisms such as editing, pacing, etc., but this meme filled hyperbole bandwagon is getting out of control.
Must feel like shit to deal with all this hate coming from every direction on a project you spent 3 years of your life working on.
Just got back and my quick thoughts.
Very satisfied. I really found all the complaints I've seen as nitpicking. It wasn't hard to follow and the casualties I saw could all be laid at the feet of Lex except
I can understand why some people might have been confused if they didn't see this as JL .5
Jesse was Lex Zuckerberg as expected, I don't know what more people wanted.
It was cool to see the JL cameos.
Everyone cheered for the WW parts.
Everyone laughed at the jokes.
Wouldn't characterize it as grimdark, but much more emotionally conflicted compared to the Marvel movies. Probably would have been better for Suicide Squad to have come out first to break people in.
Didn't have trouble hearing anything except
Definitely has me looking forward to all the future movies and characters where ever they go.
Ok, I gotta go back to work now.
Very satisfied. I really found all the complaints I've seen as nitpicking. It wasn't hard to follow and the casualties I saw could all be laid at the feet of Lex except
the general in the desert, but I'm not crying over that one even though I should be. Also, clearly Clark was still in the middle of figuring things out morally.
Supes gave himself up twice to try and protect everyone from Zodsday *sniff*
I can understand why some people might have been confused if they didn't see this as JL .5
Jesse was Lex Zuckerberg as expected, I don't know what more people wanted.
It was cool to see the JL cameos.
Everyone cheered for the WW parts.
Everyone laughed at the jokes.
Wouldn't characterize it as grimdark, but much more emotionally conflicted compared to the Marvel movies. Probably would have been better for Suicide Squad to have come out first to break people in.
Didn't have trouble hearing anything except
that last part of Bruce's dream where he got the warning to save Lois from Ezrash in alternate universe armor.
Definitely has me looking forward to all the future movies and characters where ever they go.
Ok, I gotta go back to work now.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Okay, so, 0 spoilers review:
Let's get the movie's problems out of the way.
Firstly, there's a serious lack of connective tissue. The whole first half is basically one abrupt transition between awesome moments after another. This doesn't really let up until the title fight. I think that the extended cut could solve a ton of these problems. So many scenes are like 30-45 seconds from greatness. There's also one or two scenes that really should be present but aren't, if they turn up as well we're looking at a Kingdom of Heaven-esque turnaround. As is, I can see why a lot of people are frustrated. This is a movie that not only refuses to hold your hand, it straight up makes you do a lot of connecting the dots on your own.
Second, the soundtrack. One thing I didn't realize is that it's all very, very dark sounding. There really isn't an uplifting, triumphant sound in there. No lighthearted music. It ended up making scenes that are clearly supposed to be lighter in tone feel much darker, one early one in particular stands out.
Now, the rest of the movie. This is not a cynical piece. It simply isn't. It's a refutation of Batman's speech from the trailer, about how there are no good men. That we must live as if perched on the edge of Armageddon. Clark's doubts and uncertainty surround him, but he ultimately overcomes them. That's what the movie is about. That life is going to kick you in the teeth, make a mockery of your efforts, but that that's not the end of it. That you can overcome, be more than you are. Be better than you are. And it delivers on those ideas in a big way.
Now, in terms of performance, Lex, Wondy, and Affleck are the standouts. Cavill is good too, when they give him a bit of range to work with. Lex's character arc has a big honking question mark in the middle of it, that I suspect/hope will be filled in with the extended cut.
I get why the disjointed front half would put some people off, make them stop paying attention and miss the message, but if you can keep on it, this is one hell of a film.
Let's get the movie's problems out of the way.
Firstly, there's a serious lack of connective tissue. The whole first half is basically one abrupt transition between awesome moments after another. This doesn't really let up until the title fight. I think that the extended cut could solve a ton of these problems. So many scenes are like 30-45 seconds from greatness. There's also one or two scenes that really should be present but aren't, if they turn up as well we're looking at a Kingdom of Heaven-esque turnaround. As is, I can see why a lot of people are frustrated. This is a movie that not only refuses to hold your hand, it straight up makes you do a lot of connecting the dots on your own.
Second, the soundtrack. One thing I didn't realize is that it's all very, very dark sounding. There really isn't an uplifting, triumphant sound in there. No lighthearted music. It ended up making scenes that are clearly supposed to be lighter in tone feel much darker, one early one in particular stands out.
Now, the rest of the movie. This is not a cynical piece. It simply isn't. It's a refutation of Batman's speech from the trailer, about how there are no good men. That we must live as if perched on the edge of Armageddon. Clark's doubts and uncertainty surround him, but he ultimately overcomes them. That's what the movie is about. That life is going to kick you in the teeth, make a mockery of your efforts, but that that's not the end of it. That you can overcome, be more than you are. Be better than you are. And it delivers on those ideas in a big way.
Now, in terms of performance, Lex, Wondy, and Affleck are the standouts. Cavill is good too, when they give him a bit of range to work with. Lex's character arc has a big honking question mark in the middle of it, that I suspect/hope will be filled in with the extended cut.
I get why the disjointed front half would put some people off, make them stop paying attention and miss the message, but if you can keep on it, this is one hell of a film.
Ok now I think I may end up really liking this film. I love movies like this. Awesome write up. Appreciate it.
It's the old adage of, "No one sets out to make a bad movie."
It's not like the guy is intentionally trying to piss people off or run the DCEU into the ground. Snyder & Co were very likely trying to make the best movie they possibly could. From what it sounds like, the most on-point adjective you can use to describe Snyder's direction of BVS is "misguided". WB and Nolan picked him as the man for the job for a reason - they clearly saw something in the guy that the internet at large just doesn't. I'm never ever a fan of the internet dog-piling that tends to happen when a film fails with critics this damn much. I felt terrible for Josh Trank when everyone set their sights on him after FF4. Was the guy deserving of criticism? Absolutely. Was he deserving of everyone talking about what a dick and a loser he was in general? Absolutely not.
As someone who spent 5.5 years in art college, let me just say, it's one of the worst feelings in the world when a piece that you spent weeks and months creating (let alone years) gets torn to shreds during critiques. Like, it really fucking sucks. It often-times can make you question why you wanted to become an artist in the first place. I cannot imagine how much worse it would feel if, say, after an illustration I'd created received a negative response from my classmates and teachers, random folks on the internet then started to bomb my Facebook and Instagram page with messages about how I'm an awful person and that my piece was so terrible I should quit art altogether and then probably kill myself.
I have no problem with people critiquing Snyder's films or his work as a director, that comes with the territory of being a creator. But I feel like the Snyder hate-train flew off the rails a long, long time ago.
Yeah, his "it is what it is" comment sounds like a man who was clearly deflated. I can only think of the scene in Birdman where Michael Keaton confronts the theater critic at the bar. It's probably what every artist has ever wanted to say to a critic.
I can't really say anything about this movie because I haven't seen it yet, but I do know that in general it always seemed like much of GAF was critical of RT's method.
Though I guess that was until this week, apparently. lol
Poodlestrike
Banned
Toldja it was entertaining.
I had FAITH. You're batting 100 on anything not related to Jason Todd.
No problem.
Critical reception is flatly ridiculous, by the by. I need to go in and actually read those reviews, because the snippets I've seen feel like they're describing an entirely different movie.
Smokey_Run
Member
I just got home. I liked it, but I didn't love it.
The editing in the first hour or so is definitely a glaring problem. I think there are some things done multiple times, people who have seen it will know what I'm talking about, that could have been done once. Zimmer and Junkie need replaced. The score does not work IMO, especially the Lex theme. The character themes don't need to play each time a character is shown either. Lex performance + Lex theme = constant snickering and laughter in my theater. The best parts of the score was the stuff from Man of Steel. As for the rest, I dug it. Can't think of anything else that wouldn't delve into spoilers. I love Affleck and this take on Batman. Gal was serviceable.
Overall, I think there is a better movie to be found in there without a doubt, but I liked it and I'm excited to see where it goes in the future.
Oh, someone brought a 1-2 year old to my showing.. yeah. Thankfully, I think when the kid started to act up they just left.
The editing in the first hour or so is definitely a glaring problem. I think there are some things done multiple times, people who have seen it will know what I'm talking about, that could have been done once. Zimmer and Junkie need replaced. The score does not work IMO, especially the Lex theme. The character themes don't need to play each time a character is shown either. Lex performance + Lex theme = constant snickering and laughter in my theater. The best parts of the score was the stuff from Man of Steel. As for the rest, I dug it. Can't think of anything else that wouldn't delve into spoilers. I love Affleck and this take on Batman. Gal was serviceable.
Overall, I think there is a better movie to be found in there without a doubt, but I liked it and I'm excited to see where it goes in the future.
Oh, someone brought a 1-2 year old to my showing.. yeah. Thankfully, I think when the kid started to act up they just left.
Ok. Member with a Spider-Man avatar who hated MoS loved BvS. Bizzaro world confirmed.
Nice write up Poodlestrike. It was nice reading a review talking about the story's themes and messages. None of the ones that I've read make any mention of them.
One of the reasons why I love Man of Steel is because it injects so many themes into its story and its visuals that go a long way towards making it feel like more than just a 'popcorn movie'. I'm hoping BvS is like that.
One of the reasons why I love Man of Steel is because it injects so many themes into its story and its visuals that go a long way towards making it feel like more than just a 'popcorn movie'. I'm hoping BvS is like that.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Funny, Lex's theme is one of the few things I thought was just about perfect regarding the score. That manic edge really worked for him, though you only really get a full-throated version of it a couple of times.
bryanee
Member
Oh man, this warms my cockles.
I should go to bed soon so I get to wake up and then go to the cinema at 12pm.
Schweinehund
Member
I just saw it, I love it. Firm 8.5/10.
It's really really hard to explain why people are misleading in some of the things they are saying about the movie without spoiling it.
It does have some issues, I'm not going to lie and say it's perfect. But these issues are really minor and more about certain scenes feeling... inappropriate? The knightmare (minor spoilers)
The things I liked: the fights, Lex, Batman (
), Superman's role in the story, Lois (I'm actually surprised she isn't getting more praise, but she's not perfect), the dialogue feels so much more natural for whatever reason, the jokes landed.
The things I disliked: a lot of plot threads going on in the beginning, many ideas being presented quickly in snap bites, its easy to get lost in the movie if you're not paying attention, I would have liked a little longer fight scenes, maybe one more action scene in the first 90 minutes.
The things people may not like: Characterizations (there is a lot of character growth in this movie, it's a central theme), not a lot of exposition, many themes and they may send a conflicted message.
Tonally the movie is fine, the best way I can describe the movie is it's transformative? It's certainly very dark at parts, but one of the core themes... well there is a much brighter future.
The movie is great as is, but man I think they could have easily split it into two and had two stellar movies with the material they have.
ok
AUDIENCE RECEPTION
I went to a 6:00 opening premiere for 2d regular. It was a variety of people, some family and some older people, surprisingly not a lot of people in fan t-shirts, I was one of the few. I would say the theater was 3/4th's full.
People laughed at 5-6 parts I would say. There are jokes in the movies, a couple between Alfred/bruce. Perry has some, Gadot. They're not really quips but more like gags.
I would say half or more of the audience clapped at the end. There's one part in particular where kids were happy, I can't really say but you'll probably know which one it is when you see it. People loved wonder woman, they clapped and got excited for her appearance. Her theme is also really really good.
I know most of the major plot points before I saw the movie, so I came in with reasonable expectations. I think I agree with Verendus's criticisms the most.
TL;DR I want Snyder/Terrio on JL. I'm not even a huge snyder fan, I thought MoS had glaring issues.
It's really really hard to explain why people are misleading in some of the things they are saying about the movie without spoiling it.
It does have some issues, I'm not going to lie and say it's perfect. But these issues are really minor and more about certain scenes feeling... inappropriate? The knightmare (minor spoilers)
is cool, but it really has zero relevance to the plot at hand. It's purely setup for JL. It would have been great as an ending credit scene, as much as I feel those take away from the movie. The scene after it is also a bit out of place.
The things I liked: the fights, Lex, Batman (
I've come to terms with his methods... people were a bit misleading...
The things I disliked: a lot of plot threads going on in the beginning, many ideas being presented quickly in snap bites, its easy to get lost in the movie if you're not paying attention, I would have liked a little longer fight scenes, maybe one more action scene in the first 90 minutes.
The things people may not like: Characterizations (there is a lot of character growth in this movie, it's a central theme), not a lot of exposition, many themes and they may send a conflicted message.
Tonally the movie is fine, the best way I can describe the movie is it's transformative? It's certainly very dark at parts, but one of the core themes... well there is a much brighter future.
The movie is great as is, but man I think they could have easily split it into two and had two stellar movies with the material they have.
ok
AUDIENCE RECEPTION
I went to a 6:00 opening premiere for 2d regular. It was a variety of people, some family and some older people, surprisingly not a lot of people in fan t-shirts, I was one of the few. I would say the theater was 3/4th's full.
People laughed at 5-6 parts I would say. There are jokes in the movies, a couple between Alfred/bruce. Perry has some, Gadot. They're not really quips but more like gags.
I would say half or more of the audience clapped at the end. There's one part in particular where kids were happy, I can't really say but you'll probably know which one it is when you see it. People loved wonder woman, they clapped and got excited for her appearance. Her theme is also really really good.
I know most of the major plot points before I saw the movie, so I came in with reasonable expectations. I think I agree with Verendus's criticisms the most.
TL;DR I want Snyder/Terrio on JL. I'm not even a huge snyder fan, I thought MoS had glaring issues.
lovely ladies
Member
It's amusing reading the last pages of this thread and all the other ones lol. You never want to feel like you wasted your money so it's good that at least some of you feel like the flick was justified.
Yea, agreed. By all accounts Snyder is a nice guy, and he has poured all his energy into this project. It's got to be devastating to have all this excessive negativity toward him and the movie given how important it is financially as well as for setting up the whole DCCU.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, I'm definitely on board with Terrio and Snyder doing JL. This was a step up from MoS in basically every way, if Snyder can fix one or two remaining problems we are home fo sho.
Somebody needs to tell him, he seems really sad
Somebody needs to tell him, he seems really sad
What did he mean by this?
Member
Literally just came out
Was it a good movie? No
Does it deserve the RT score? Maybe
Should Snyder direct Justice League? Yes
Will post more when I get home
Was it a good movie? No
Does it deserve the RT score? Maybe
Should Snyder direct Justice League? Yes
Will post more when I get home
What a great cast, they really all did a terrific job. Eiseneberg was such a standout, I loved how this Lex was portrayed. The theater was freaking out for WW, and to my delight my wife loved her. Cavill and Affleck were great. Loved this version of Batman with the way he uses all of his tools at his disposal and fought like in the Arkham games. It was such a fun ride beginning to end for me.
Totally down with Snyder and Terrio. For me this movie was so drastically better, and I want to see what they do for JL.
Totally down with Snyder and Terrio. For me this movie was so drastically better, and I want to see what they do for JL.
Right?
How is this even possible?
But I liked it!
Doing a spoiler-free write up right now, followed by spoiler-filled.
It's weird.
There were like 6 threads on the 1st page at one point shitting on him/this movie.
It's not just here, something about him that people don't mind getting REAL personal.
Questioning his intelligence.
Dogging his wife.
Blasting him for how many children he has.
It's something else seeing who the "chosen ones" of the internet are.
Goyer gets a ton of hate, while I just don't see it. I enjoy his work (Blade 3 was a hunk of shit but still.)
Trevorrow is looking like another whipping boy where I don't get why. I saw Jurassic World multiple times in the theater, and honestly I got more joy out of that one than Episode 7.
Maybe I'm just very easy to please.
The closest I can see is Michael Bay. I enjoyed exactly one movie of his. I despise his movies and it seems like he tries to be as ugly, mean-spirited and offensive as possible. And I still would rather just pretend he doesn't exist than troll people who like his stuff.
I still haven't BvS. Maybe it really is that bad to bring it out of people, but I have at least liked every movie by him I've seen (Watchmen and Sucker Punch being the two I haven't).
I've said since last year I don't think Snyder is going to do JL2. That'll be a decade on someone else's characters. All that work and time out of your life for the nonsense since MoS dropped?
- Status